Mahsi, Madam Chair. The committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 12-19(2), 2019-2023 Mandate of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Mahsi cho, Madam Chair.

Does the committee agree?

Thank you, committee. We will take a short recess and resume with the tabled document.

---SHORT RECESS

I will now call committee back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 12-19(2), 2019-2023 Mandate of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Does the Premier have any opening remarks?

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am pleased to present the 2019-2023 mandate for the Government of the Northwest Territories. This mandate is built on the priorities we set together as newly elected Members of the 19^th Legislative Assembly in October 2019. Under the current process conventions, Members of the Executive Council discussed how we might implement these priorities in the best interest of all Northerners and in our current operating environment. I sat down with the standing committee in November and heard from each Member about the needs of our regions and communities, and the actions we might take in each of these priority areas. We met again in December and in January to further discuss and refine the mandate document. This dialogue is essential to open and collaborative government, and consistent with the guiding principles of consensus government.

Our government will focus on what we can do as a territory to find new and innovative solutions to the challenges we share as we implement our mandate. We will be creative and ambitious, while taking a hard look at what we are doing so we can make it better. We will seek out and examine new evidence, and use the real world experience of our staff and residents to improve our decisions, programs, and services. Building on the input and involvement Northerners have given the Government of the Northwest Territories over many years, we will start taking action so that services are improved and we achieve results. We want to position our people to be partners in addressing the things that matter to them and their communities. Through implementing the mandate, we want to help people build the personal and community capacity to work with us to make their families and communities stronger, healthier, and happier.

We know that accessible and affordable housing is the foundation for strong, healthy families; and our mandate commits us to getting more people in the Northwest Territories into homes. We know that people want good jobs in their home communities; and our mandate commits us to growing and supporting those sectors we have always relied on, like mining, while also looking to expand into new sectors that may have been overlooked in the past. We hope to find new opportunities for our communities and regions. We want people to have a good life. Our mandate commits us to helping our people get the education, health, and social supports they need from government to feel they are living secure, personally meaningful, and dignified lives at all ages.

Our mandate commits us to addressing the barriers that are holding our people back, and to creating a prosperous territory that shares benefits with all residents and all communities. We recognize and respect that we are not the only government in the Northwest Territories. Our mandate commits us to strengthening our relationships with Indigenous and other governments, and to supporting their capacity to help us to make this a better territory for all.

The people of the Northwest Territories want to succeed on every level. We know we can do a better job of supporting our residents take advantage of the opportunities available to us. The 2019-2023 mandate will help the Government of the Northwest Territories focus what we do and how we do it so we can make progress on the things that matter to our people based on the priorities of the 19^th Legislative Assembly. Thank you, Madam Chair. This concludes my opening remarks.

Thank you, Madam Premier. We have agreed to begin with general comments. Does the Premier wish to bring witnesses into the House? Please escort the witness into the Chamber. Would the Premier please introduce the witness?

Thank you, Madam Chair. On my right is Mr. Martin Goldney. He is the Cabinet secretary and the deputy minister for Executive and Indigenous Affairs. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. I will now open the floor for general comments. MLA for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to start by reflecting on some of the challenges of developing a mandate. The Government of the Northwest Territories has been developing mandate documents to guide its work since the 1999 agenda for the new North set the vision for a post division Northwest Territories that no longer included Nunavut. In the last 20 years, subsequent consensus governments have been challenged with developing an agenda that articulates a shared vision of the Northwest Territories, one that reflects the aspirations of all Northerners while staying rooted in practical actions and goals that can be measured as we move toward our vision.

Finding the right combination of vision and action has been a challenge during the government mandate-setting exercises. Another has been crafting a mandate that respects the balance between the authority of the Executive branch of government to deliver programs and services and the responsibility of the legislative branch of government to provide oversight.

I think we can all agree that there have been some successes and failures in mandate-setting exercises and that we are continuing to learn from past experiences. The mandate of the 18^th Legislative Assembly was set collaboratively between Cabinet and Regular Members, based on priorities set by all 19 Members of the Legislative Assembly. Having spoken to Members of the previous Assembly, I would think it would be fair to say that the collaborative effort to be inclusive resulted in an unwieldy mandate. The key mandate objectives were mixed in with day-to-day government business, resulting in a lengthy laundry list of hundreds of mandate items. There was also some duplication in the actions identified and varying degrees of detail about the work to be done.

Another shortcoming of the previous mandate is that it did not easily lend itself to measurement. For example, if the mandate identified improving food security as a goal, it offered no method for determining what progress was made to increase food security. The inability to measure progress hampers accountability, Madam Chair. I believe that some of the lessons learned have positively impacted the mandate of the Government of the Northwest Territories for the 19^th Legislative Assembly that we are reviewing today.

Before I turn my attention to that, I want to start by thanking the Premier and her Cabinet for working collaboratively with Regular Members to develop this mandate. As a new Member, I found this collaboration to be one of the first real consensus challenges as an MLA. To avoid creating a lengthy mandate, Members had to make difficult choices when setting priorities. The priorities that emerged from our discussions are not necessarily the priorities that any one of us might have selected as individuals. However, they best reflect the overall priorities of the 19 Members as an Assembly.

You may have heard the saying that, if everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority. We kept that in mind and made some tough choices. As a result, some things that are important to my constituents might not have made the list of priorities determined by the Assembly, but they reflect the needs of all NWT residents, and, as a Member, I stand behind that. Once the priorities were set, the mandate was crafted by the Executive branch of government. It identifies not only what the government will do, but also how it will be done. As importantly, it also identifies the timeline for completing the work and sets out measures for determining progress.

I want to thank the Premier for listening to the important requests of Regular Members and ensuring mandate progress is measurable. This will be incredibly helpful to hold government accountable throughout our term and to demonstrate that we collectively achieved something real at the end of the Assembly.

I understand we will be working through 22 mandate priorities and the actions identified to achieve those priorities in detail, so I will hold my comments on the specific priorities until we come to them. There are, however, some important factors that will have an impact on our success in achieving the priorities we have set.

The first is the importance of good communication. Timely, honest, and accurate communication has the ability to unite our territory toward a common goal and empower Northerners to become involved with clear and encouraged democratic participation. Poor communication results in misunderstandings that distract the government and this Assembly from the important work at hand. I believe the GNWT has not paid enough attention to the importance of communication in the past. I believe that, in the past, there was reluctance by government to communicate with the public for fear of judgment or public criticism, but we are getting better. Communications have evolved in this connected internet era. The public's expectations have also evolved. People don't want spin. They don't want to be told what to believe. They want the facts so they can judge for themselves. In all the work the GNWT does to achieve this mandate, I encourage my colleagues on Cabinet to be as communicative as possible with the Members of this Assembly and with the public. So much can be resolved, simply by preventing misunderstandings in the first place. It is also important to acknowledge errors when they are made. Mistakes will happen. What matters is how we address our errors. We are all human, and none of us is perfect.

We have heard lots of talk about the importance of partnerships to help this government reach its goals. Effective partnerships are another essential ingredient for achieving a successful mandate, partnerships with community governments, stakeholders, non-government organizations, intergovernmental partnerships with Indigenous governments, and public-private partnerships. There are many types of partnerships, and they are all fundamental to good governance and progress. However, to be successful, partnerships must be built on shared objectives, mutual respect, and trust. For the GNWT to be successful in its partnerships, it has to be prepared to meet its partners as equals and to listen to the needs and concerns of those we choose to partner with, and who choose to partner with us.

The GNWT also needs to be consistent in its approach to its partners. A strong partnership between an Indigenous government and a GNWT department can be undone if the same Indigenous government feels it is receiving poor treatment at the hands of another department. In addition, we cannot drive a legacy of relationships and partnerships without moving the needle on lands, resources, and self-government agreements, and increase regional decision-making. Ministers need to listen, not only to the advice of their senior managers, but to the organization's clients and residents that government works with and for. As politicians, you are best positioned to have your finger on the pulse of the electorate and to provide clear political leadership to the public service.

I have said it before, Madam Chair, our priorities are all connected. While large budgets are always exciting, not every priority requires huge pots of money to move the meter. Some require the fluidity of being able to provide our public servants with the space to be creative and think outside their cubicle. For example, we have multiple departments working to attract people to the Northwest Territories, whether it is to stay for a week as a tourist or to stay for a lifetime as a new Northerner. Industry, Tourism and Investment; Health and Social Services; Finance; and Education, Culture and Employment each has a mandate to bring people to the Northwest Territories, but each work on attracting these people within the context of their own department mandate. NWT Tourism brings a beautiful, interactive experience-based booth to its trade shows and events, but what are we bringing to job fairs to attract nurses? We aren't selling nursing jobs. Every city, town, and island has a nursing job. We're selling an experience. How can we bring these public servants together and empower them to expand their creativity and work together to sell a common goal of experiencing the Northwest Territories? How can we work across silos to reduce costs and increase productivity? I believe that this Assembly can make its mark by leading a change in the government's approach to providing programs and services. We have a long history of government acting as a gatekeeper for access to public information, programs, and services. I believe that my colleagues on Cabinet want change in that system as much as I do.

This mandate will not improve the lives of Northerners unless we improve our service ethic. Every single employee of this government should be encouraged to adopt this ethic of service to the people of the Northwest Territories as their highest priority and bring this attitude with them to work every single day. I also believe that our public servants benefit from having a robust legislation and policy, providing a framework that affords them the ability to apply discretion when doing their jobs, to ensure that our clients, the members of the public, do not experience undue frustration in their dealings with the government. I hope that having an Ombud in place will help the GNWT to improve its procedural fairness in its dealings with the public.

Finally, Madam Chair, as Ministers work on defining the budget allocations that will be used to meet our priorities, I ask that they be bold in their leadership. Our legacy will evolve from a union of the way we drive accountability, what we leave Northerners and the 20^th Assembly, and also what meter Cabinet chooses to move. Given our fiscal restraints, we cannot do everything. I ask that Cabinet make the tough decisions on what meter to move and to not make that decision lightly. What will drive the success of Northerners for generations to come? What will enable Northerners to thrive? Be bold. I am counting on you and believe this Assembly, in collaboration with every single department, has the potential to make change. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. I will give it to the Premier to respond. We're just doing general comments. I will just continue on, then. Member for Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. The mandate was to develop Cabinet-based priorities to be set by all 19 Legislative Members. It sets out what the government intends to do during its term to achieve these priorities. I will have comments on individual priorities and move through them page by page. However, first, comments to the mandate and in general.

Madam Chair, the Legislature of Ontario governs 14 million people, roughly, for every MP. For 115,000 people, Legislature of Alberta, just 4 million people, roughly. For one MLA for 49,000 people, it governs that we have a population of 44,500 people, meaning that one MLA serves 2300 people roughly. Why does that matter? Because not governing tens of thousands of faceless people that we will never meet and governing our friends, families, and our neighbours, that gives us a unique opportunity to govern the compassion and respect. We know the people are doing that are directly impacted in decisions that are made in this House. It makes a huge difference in responsibility on all of us.

To do better for the people we know, love, we've been doing in the past. The GNWT budget is nearing $2 billion. It's such a big number. People can't even imagine how much money that is. It's like 2,000 million dollars when you look at it. That means territorial government is big business in the NWT. The government has all the responsibilities of provincial government to provide education, healthcare, social programs, and infrastructure. We have added challenge in delivering these programs. These services are in small and remote communities, scattered in a large land mass. This increases the costs of everything: food, building materials, wages, gas, power, you name it. The North costs more.

Given this reality, it makes sense the territorial government must spend carefully to keep an eye on the bottom line, however, prioritizing the bottom line has been ingrained in generations of public servants over the past 50 years, and it has deeply affected the corporate culture of the NWT. I believe the GNWT public servants, from deputy ministers to front-line staff, are expected to act as gatekeepers, controlling the public access to government services, to protect the public purse. The outcome is corporate culture. Members of the public often encounter attitude and resistance seeking access to government programs and services. They feel that they are being judged or feel unworthy of the jobs and support of the programs offered by the GNWT. What does this mandate have? Simple, we do things that are important to us. The Premier and the Cabinet have made a pledge to do things differently. In evidence, I grant, they're still early days. I believe what is needed is a dramatic change in how the GNWT responds and serves. The government needs to radically alter the corporate culture and focus on client-centred service. It also needs to rethink and prioritize the regional centres over smaller communities.

In implementing this mandate, I want the GNWT to put the "service" back into the public service. What I mean by this is I want a more client-oriented approach. I'd like every public servant empowered to support and serve the people of the NWT, no matter what the needs are. I want to see public service training and front-line staff. I want to see more of our people becoming employees and senior managers and more travel from senior managers into our communities so they can know and understand the challenges that are facing our people, who they work for. What I see, Madam Chair, is attitude, a service where the government and employees, when they come to work in the morning, they should be saying, "How could I help the people today in the Northwest Territories?" instead of thinking, "How can I protect the bottom line of the government purse?" I'm suggesting that we're not being fiscally prudent. We do, but employees need to be taught the ethic of service of the people, not the judgment of them.

Before I close my general remarks, I want to point out what is important. The government must recognize that the focus of past governments on big infrastructure projects has come at a cost. It has taken time, attention, and resources away from things that are needed in people's everyday lives: adequate housing, jobs, good schools, quality health, and financial support of the most needy among us. In delivering this mandate, these are things that matter most to the people. We must not forget that.

What matters most to the people in my riding of Nunakput is jobs, decent housing, adequate funding for the community government, dealing with shoreline erosion, affordable taxes. When I look at the successes and failures of our government in delivering this mandate, I'll be looking to see improvements in these areas, real, meaningful, and tangible improvements in the lives of the constituents that we serve. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. I will turn it over to the Member for Frame Lake.

Merci, Madame la Presidente. As I stated on December 11, 2019 in this House, I have a number of concerns with the priorities that were developed by the MLAs. We produced a list of 22 priorities versus the 25 in the 18^th Assembly. Hard choices were not made amongst big infrastructure projects or even between those projects and investments in social spending that should include housing, polytechnic university, universal childcare, and guaranteed basic income.

I do not support some of the priorities developed by this Assembly. I will put people first over infrastructure. Some priorities work at cross-purposes with each other, such as increasing economic diversification or trying to increase mineral exploration. Other priorities are extremely vague: reduce core housing needs or advance universal childcare. The priorities provide very little direction for the work of some of the departments, agencies, and Ministers. I look forward to an opportunity to review the mandate letters as soon as they are available and well before they are formally issued by the Premier.

On to the mandate tabled late last week by the Premier, I want to firstly acknowledge the good efforts on the part of the Premier to work collaboratively with Regular MLAs in developing the mandate. We spent over two full days in direct discussion with the Premier, which is an unprecedented and welcome change from the last Assembly. We had intense discussions. Sometimes we agreed to disagree, but I think the results clearly show the influence of the Regular MLAs in shaping the mandate.

I had pushed for a structured approach to each of the priorities. I suggested clear timelines, measurable targets or outcomes, steps necessary to reach the targets or outcomes, and accountability for the proposed actions and coordination of them. I think this was largely achieved with the mandate that's before us. However, many of the outcomes or targets are very low. For example, increasing our housing stock by 100 units over four years is only about a 4-percent increase and will likely not even keep pace with our growing waiting list of residents wishing to get into public housing. As another example, there are supposed to be about, I think, 16 active negotiation tables for land rights and implementation of existing agreements. The mandate sets a very low target of two agreements to be concluded at the end of four years. I sincerely hope that these are the agreements that cover the Dehcho and Akaitcho territories, but surely we can do better than two agreements.

The mandate also contains vague commitments in some cases. These include words such as "advance," "working with," "increase opportunities," and similar words. Voters elected us for real change. That needs to start with a bold vision and goals. I think the mandate can and should have adopted clear commitments to this type of change, with more ambitious targets, outcomes, and deliverables.

I have a number of concerns with some of the actions proposed to fill different parts of the mandate and would like to highlight some of those now. The climate change sections are particularly weak, with few specific actions or outcomes to establish internal leadership, accountability, and improved decision-making. The infrastructure section is silent on whether and how we can possibly afford all of these projects at the same time. There is nothing about changing our messaging about the NWT being a great place to live, work, and do business to attract investment, instead of the tired old complaints about our regulatory system, that scares away investment. The roles of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation in our energy future is not even discussed, and the focus is on large energy projects that will do little to build energy self-sufficiency and lower the cost of living. The education section is rather lean, and there is no clear commitment to universal childcare. Clear targets should have been developed for food security, in my view.

In closing, I would like to thank the Premier, though, for working with the Regular MLAs and delivering a much-improved version of this mandate, and I'll have further comments and questions as we work our way through the document. Mahsi, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Are there any other general comments? Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is a different mandate-setting exercise than we experienced last time, and, mostly, that's for the better. I am particularly grateful that it was developed through an iterative process, which the Premier outlined in her comments today, the times that she met with us after we, as all 19 Members, had set the 22 priorities.

The mandate has many strengths in terms of the topics it covers, and reflects the needs and wants of my constituents articulated during the election campaign. It doesn't contain everything that I want, but I am going to choose not to focus on the things that are not in this mandate, which is already too long, and instead look at the things that are here and to say that, in consensus government, you don't get everything you want. That's a reality that I've come to terms with.

I appreciate the use of the SMART goal tool, where SMART stands for specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, and time-bound. I don't think it has always been successful in this context. Some things just don't fit within that measurement tool. I think that using it and trying to quantify 100 new houses, 100 new homeowners, 30 new jobs, I think that kind of specific attention to detail is useful. I think that what we have been able to do by using this SMART goal-setting tool is to create a document that is not primarily aspirational but one that has specific actions that will happen at a particular time and for which we can measure progress, and that is what we are going to do.

I appreciate Cabinet's willingness to collaborate. In the Premier's statement when she tabled the mandate, I trust that all Members of this Assembly will see that their insights, ideas, and suggestions reflected in this mandate would not have been spoken by the Premier of the last Assembly. I appreciate the inclusiveness that it suggests. I want to acknowledge that many of these mandate items are not going to be affordable. I think that there are too many of them, that we are going to end up whittling some out simply because of the cost of trying to do everything that is in this document. Having said that, I think that we can make real gains in policy, such as increasing Indigenous participation in procurement, addressing benefit retention, and better service coordination, among other issues. Even while I don't expect us to have a lot of money to spend, we can make the lives of Northerners better by improving the policies that we have as a government and how they are implemented. With that, those are my opening remarks. I look forward to discussion of the document as a whole. Mahsi, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to reiterate the comments that my colleagues have been making. They have kind of taken my opening statements from me. I think we are speaking at the right level, that this is pragmatic realism in what we can accomplish. I also think there is a recognition in this House that there needs to be more service-oriented government. I will have a number of questions regarding the substance of each item in the mandate, but I wanted to speak to form.

I think there is no doubt this is the best mandate the Government of the Northwest Territories has ever seen. The Government of the Northwest Territories is a rather new government, and it has been evolving from these kinds of vague priorities. Now, we have finally gotten into wording where things are measurable; they are clearer. This is our job as politicians, to hold the government to account, to provide clear direction to departments. It also allows the public to hold us to account. I would like to thank all of the people in the departments and my Cabinet colleagues and the Premier for the hard work that went into this, making sure this is clear and measurable so that everyone can play the role that is required.

I struggle a little bit with the substance in that I think everyone here knows if I was going to write a mandate, it would look a lot different than this. Each individual Member could say that. That is consensus government. I have made a pledge to myself that I have bought into this mandate. We set those priorities in Caucus. We agreed to this process. We gave it to Cabinet to go and develop. I will ask lots of questions, and I will hold the government to account to accomplish this mandate. Although I may not agree with everything that is in here and although it may not include some of the things I would like to see, I am committed that this is the guiding principle for this government for the next four years. Let's get this done. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Member for Thebacha.

I don't have anything written because I think I can speak from the cuff. I know that the 22 priorities were put together by all of the Members of this Assembly. I may not agree with some of it, just like some other Members, but I want to stress some of the things that are dear to my heart and some of the things that I think sometimes people talk very loosely about, the Aboriginal and Indigenous people of the North.

As a former leader for 10 years, I think that the settlement and the implementation of the outstanding land claims must be a priority if we are going to move forward. I feel that mandates have to be given to the negotiators, and we can't be a barrier. I think that it is very important because there are possibilities that we would move forward if we settle these claims because most of the money comes from the federal pockets. Then our people could move forward with us. It is a very important part of the whole pie.

I also want to ensure that we have to balance the economy with the social envelope. If you don't have an economy, you can't do all these other programs. I hope that we project that we are going to be open for business. I am very excited, and I don't see something on the Taltson expansion up to date on this House except something very brief in the document. It is 75/25 it says, but it could be 100 percent if we have the Indigenous governments taking part in the other 25 percent. We have to be innovative, and we have to look forward to making sure this is clean energy. I think that it has to happen, in order for larger proponents and for jobs in the future, with Aboriginal and Indigenous buy-in so that there is ownership instead of IDAs. I think that this is the way to go. We talk very loosely in this House about "Indigenous." Lots of people get up and say it. I lived it. There are always those barriers, just to get the federal government to recognize two reserves in the Northwest Territories as reserves north of 60, and they still do not. That is unacceptable. This government should be making sure that this happens.

The other thing I want to say is, the increase in the regional decision-making authority, I think that is a good thing. I think that it is time. I think that people in the regions feel that we shouldn't have to come to headquarters every time a decision has to be made. It benefits the smaller communities, and it benefits everybody in the community. This is the way to go, and I am very happy that this is one of the priorities. I really believe in reducing the municipal funding gap because the municipalities have a lot of infrastructure that hasn't been addressed for many years. Hopefully, in due course, we are able to do that within our mandate. Most importantly is to create the polytech university, a polytech university that will be at arm's-length from the Government of the Northwest Territories, with it is own board, and that we all buy into, and everybody benefits from, and the whole of the Northwest Territories and the students and the people who work there will be very happy with. I look forward to that.

There are many things that I could talk about, but we are going to be asking questions. I am proud to be part of these 22 priorities, even though some of them are more important than others to me, just like everybody else. I will always make sure that I speak on behalf of the people of Fort Smith. I celebrate that they are my members of the community that are very dear to my heart. We have to be more compassionate in delivery of services. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. I will now turn it over to the Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Mahsi cho, Madam Chair. After much thought and deliberation about the mandate and our list of 22 priorities, I personally feel like I would have done things a little differently, like you mentioned. We're all very strong alpha males and females in this room, and we wouldn't be here if we weren't. We all have 19 different ideologies and 19 different ways of doing business, but I'm very happy we came to a consensus and came to this document.

For me personally, I think it would be extremely helpful to have knowledge of our current financial state before going into this exercise, but that's how we learn. We learn and we move forward and do the best with what we've got. I know, as newly elected MLAs, a lot is expected of us; and, in fact, there are a lot of new faces here. People wanted real change, and we have to give it to them. They deserve it, but now we have this mandate, and I think, for lack of a better word, this is really our paddle for the canoe that we've got in this uncertain time. I'm going to believe in that and get behind it, and I'm going to think about that single mom who might be living in an isolated community, you know, struggling to support their kids. They could be in Lutselk'e. They could be in Lidlii Kue. They could be in Thebacha. It could be an elder who is having trouble getting by on their old age pension, and that's who we have to think about.

Overall, there are some items in this document that I'm glad to see and I'll be supporting; the Joint Committee on Indigenous Reconciliation, for example. It's a very good idea. However, there is one aspect that I would like to see added, and it's more inclusion with elected Indigenous leaders. If we really, truly want to reconcile, from the inside out, we need to invite our fellow Indigenous elected leaders to the joint committee. The same goes for "establish an internal working group" which this government plans to create. I hope to see, at some level, involvement with Indigenous leaders or Indigenous governments with the creation of that working group.

Regarding employment in small communities, I would like to see a higher number of jobs that will be created by the end of the 19^th Assembly. A figure that was listed, I think, as a fairly low number, but nonetheless, I expect to see at least a few more jobs being created within my riding. Something that really, really angers me and frustrates me is how we always seem to have outside entities, like the Americans, southern companies; they come in and they take some very good business opportunities and jobs away from my community. I will say this until I'm blue in the face: any money that leaves the territories will hurt the Northwest Territories. We have to keep our money here. Again, our people deserve it.

In regard to tourism, I'm happy to see that there is an effort for increasing tourism to the regions outside of Yellowknife. That makes me happy. One aspect that I would like to see included is something about expanding our tourism market. Given the recent outbreak of this coronavirus -- I'm not going to go too much into that -- our tourism industry is probably going to take a hit for this. I hope to see efforts by this government to try to get people from newer markets.

On climate change, I wish there had been something regarding Indigenous guardians of the land. There is no mention of it anywhere in this document, and that is something that all regions would have appreciated. I think, overall, we need a balanced approach. You know, you can't just organize one group or sector over the other. We need a balanced approach going forward, and we can't do that without a healthy economy. We need a healthy economy to go forward. We need jobs, it's important, and more self-sufficiency for our Indigenous governments. That is how, I believe in my heart, we're going to achieve success.

I got a little bit emotional there because I still think about my great-grandmother when I saw the elder, the one prior to me mentioned about elders, and letting elders age in place with dignity, because we still have a lot of work to go in that direction. I'm hoping, if my great-grandmother is still watching, I'm hoping she's giving me a little nudge and supporting me. I'm thinking about her, and I want to say mahsi cho, Madam Chair. That's all I have to say.

Thank you, Mr. Norn. Member for Monfwi.

Masi, Madam Chair. [Translation] This mandate that is in front of us today, it's a big document. We have 22 mandates listed. When we first started, we had a lot more issues than this which is not on this list, but we've been on this job for four or five months, now. We still have another three-and-a-half years, when another election will happen. This mandate is here only for three-and-a-half years, so I think we want to tackle the mandate as soon as possible. Sometimes when we talk about issues, we're always trying to find a solution to resolve our issues. When one of the Members has spoken, talked about how their constituent situation is, we want to try to help our people as soon as possible. We don't want to do any more research; we want to work on the issues right away. Madam Chair, I'm not going to say too much. All the MLAs have touched on the issues I wanted to say. We know that we all don't agree on issues, but, in order to go forward, we all need to work together. We need to respect each other and each other's words. That's the only way to go forward.

Madam Chair, if you notice, I seem to be the only one speaking in my language, but sometimes I hear a little bit of language from some of the Members, but I especially always speak in my language. This document is not translated in any of our languages. Even if I spoke in my language, they're not listening to me. As an MLA on this side of the table, I will try to speak on it as much as I can. Even though my issues are not in here, I will still talk on it. I think our language is very important. It identifies who you are. When we speak our language, they hear us and they know what we are talking about. When we talk about the Northwest Territories, we're losing a lot of our languages, especially one language group, which is Gwich'in. They are really losing their speakers. We don't have a mandate for that, so how are we to talk about it? Sometimes, we only talk about it. Nothing is listed here as a mandate for our languages. I have spoken on this. I will always speak in my language. That is most important for me. I want to put it as a mandate. In the Northwest Territories, we have 11 official languages. Within Canada, when you take a look at this, we should try to make that as strong as possible. When we look at Nunavut, their language is very strong, and you can see it in their regions. When we look at our own regions, it's like, even though we have 11 official languages, we say we have official languages, but there are not a lot of things happening with those languages. So I can't say anything beyond that, but it is my mandate to talk about the issues of my region.

A lot of my elders have said in the past that I'm speaking my constituents' words. They are the ones who have given me the mandate and the issues. They voted me in. I have to talk on their issues; it's their issues. I will not stop, so that is the reason why we are elected and we are here. We need to be aware of that, and also languages, we should try to speak our language as much as possible. Even though it's not translated in this mandate, I want to speak in my language.

We have 22 mandates, here. We know that we might not be able to complete it, but, when you take a look at this document, there are a lot of big mandates. Where is the budget for it? I don't see the budget in here for it. Sometimes we may think that it's a good idea; it's just only something that's written. We have three-and-a-half years here. Can we complete this mandate? I don't know, but maybe in another two years we're going to review the Executive, whether they did their job or not, so all the Ministers will get their evaluation. Everything that's in here, we have to try to complete it. We'll see whether they can do the job or not.

Madam Chair, as my closing, I did want to speak in my language. I wanted to increase and make my language stronger. That's the reason why I'm speaking. We do have interpreters, and even a lot of the interpreters are really advocating for languages, and Mary Rose is one of them. I'm really thankful for her and all the other interpreters who are here pushing for languages. Masi. [End of translation.]

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. I will go to the Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have any notes. Well, I've got a few little notes here I jotted down, but I guess, when I look at the mandate and, like I said earlier today, as I look at where we are fiscally, we are in a tough position; but, again, this is a new government, new ideas, new hope to make the NWT, I guess I could say "great again," but we're already great, so better with what we have.

My focus, I guess, is going to be on the economy and business. I think, with the 19 Members that we have here, we've pretty well got all the issues covered off. There is interest in every area, and that's what I'm going to count on. I'm going to count on people who have a stronger interest or more knowledge than I have in certain areas to help me make the right decisions; but, when it comes to business and the economy, I'm glad that we have diversification in there. It's going to be a real positive impact on the region and smaller communities, but it's important also that this government takes a look at collaboration between departments, because I think that's been lacking in the past, like with housing and different projects. If the departments work together, there are only 45,000 of us here, there's no reason why we shouldn't all be working, just looking after ourselves, basically.

Having a strong economy, as well, you know, there is some despair out there; there are people losing hope, and it's up to us to at least give them tools to give them that hope back and make it stronger. So I guess, for me, it's all about the people. At the end of the day, I'll do what I can in this House, but, as an MLA, there are people who call me and text me and email me with their issues, and those are important. It's important to them, and it's important to me. Usually, they want you to deal with it right away, and most times you can see why they want you to deal with it right away.

One of the things I find with this government, when I look at some of those coming in and I think it's something this government should look at, is we're sending emails on to you to look at and deal with issues that should be routine and that should be able to be dealt with in your departments, in the communities and in the regions, yet we're taking time away from, you know, you should be doing bigger things, and we should be able to deal with the community issues, but we have to be able to somehow find a way where we can work with the departments and the regions; as an example, the Hay River Health Authority. You know, I guess maybe I'm supposed to be bringing any issues up to the Minister here, but my sense and the way I've always operated is just go to the source, make a decision, deal with it, and get it done, and people are happy.

So I think everything has been said by everybody here already, and I just want to get down and get to work. We have to roll something out to the communities and to the territories, and, if we don't do that, if we just sit here for another two months and they still haven't got anything, you know, we might as well just pack it up and let somebody else take our places. It's that easy. So I look forward to working with everybody, and there is still, I think, maybe one Minister who is giving hugs, I think Paulie; I'm not sure if anybody else is, but that's good. We're still getting along. Thank you, Madam Chair.

All right, thank you, Member for Hay River South. I almost said Yellowknife South. I will now give the floor to the Member for Deh Cho.

Mahsi, Madam Chair. I represent the majority Aboriginal Dene people in my riding of Deh Cho, and I've also got two treaty groups that are at the table, the K'atlodeeche First Nations out of Hay River and also the Dehcho First Nations, which represents 10 Aboriginal Dene groups and two Metis groups, also. I think their struggles have been ongoing for quite some time, as every other claimant group. It's good to see that there are three that have reached self-government and are their own government bodies. I think that's what we're all aspiring to, to get to those points. I know there are difficulties in moving forward on many fronts, but I believe there is progress there, at the same time.

What I'm mostly encouraged about is that, you know, there are a couple of items within the mandate that we have selected that are at the top five that we're looking at, and I'm just kind of concerned that the Regular Members' voices are not really being heard when we want to move forward because, as I mentioned, when I first came to this House, the Assembly, I had a vision. That vision is the GNWT, the government of the day, works and walks hand in hand with all the Dene people of the Northwest Territories, as we are a majority population. All the groups there in the Northwest Territories, that we walk hand in hand to Ottawa and say, "Hey, this is what we have. We're working together. We recognize there is an Aboriginal Dene territory, and we're working with them, and here is what we want you to do," you know, to say that to the federal government, and to put meaning into wanting to settle and implement all the self-government agreements and treaty negotiations. You know, that's what we would really like to see, and we want to see it.

I said I wanted to see a committee at the beginning so that we can direct the negotiations team and not have it work the other way around. That's kind of what I saw, so we can say, "Hey, relax your policy or your demands a little bit and work with the Aboriginal groups." You know, dealing with subsurface rights, let's have a serious talk about this so that we can move forward. It's good for economic prosperity when we look at that picture in that sense. Maybe we have to look at, you know, we're talking about the UNDRIP, the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People. Maybe we should put that first. Let's pass that. I don't believe that's going to cost us any money at all. What it's going to cost, I guess, is probably to look at our legislation and policies and making some changes in there. Those are the two biggest ones that I just wanted to mention at this point here. I probably have more questions as we go along. I thank the Chair for allowing me to speak. Mahsi.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In general, speaking to the mandate, I feel lucky because it did list a lot. If you've seen my pamphlet that I was handing out when I was doing my campaign and in my first remarks in the House of what I heard, I feel lucky because I did get a lot of the stuff that I spoke to in this mandate.

Housing was clearly identified in my region, and what we have in here, there's a start. There are a lot of issues. Regional decision-making, being part of a health authority that lost regional power, it is really important that the regions have their voice, and I think having that in our mandate will help give that back. Cost of living, I just recently received another $500 flat power bill that doesn't go along with everything else that I have, so the cost of living and especially in the Territories is driving the people out of here. They can't afford to live. That's in our mandate. We need to fix that. Education, we have early childhood in here. We have programs. We talk about the Polytechnic, and I am glad that we've got the Auditor General report now because we know from those middle years, we have issues. It is not in here, but we, as a government, have to continue business. We've got to provide good education for our students. Whether it's in here or not, I know we're going to work towards fixing that. Seniors: like my colleague from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, I, too, was raised by my great grandparents, and they had the opportunity to live in their house almost until the day they passed. That was something that they wanted to do. They never wanted to live in a facility, so I hear what my colleague from Nunakput says. Our elders do not want to be placed in facilities where they are away from their families, and so, we need to make sure they age in place with dignity and that we come up with really outside-the-box thinking, plans to keep them there. Increase in food: at my last position, I wrote support letters and referrals to Jordan's Principle and the Inuit Child First Initiative for families to buy food because they couldn't make it to the end of the month for their income support. These are things that are the realities in our communities.

Another one is the culturally respectful community and mental health addictions and aftercare. Our people are crying out to get help, but they do not want to leave. Again, like I said today earlier in my Member's statement and yesterday, people don't understand the things that Indigenous people have gone through and what their trauma is, and how is an outsider going to help us fix our trauma. We have to fix it from within. We're not asking for bricks and mortar. We are asking for places like the Indigenous wellness healing camps in our regional centres, in our communities. I spent one hour there last Friday, and, wow, I left there feeling refreshed, and I encourage you all to try it. Another area is residential health. Our people deserve to see the same person when they're telling their story. They shouldn't have to tell their story over and over and over again, every single time they walk into a health centre or speak with a physician. I am glad that we are going to try to increase the number of resident healthcare providers, and I'm just hoping that will help with our people wanting to access care again because that has been a barrier. That's all I have in regards to this. Thank you.

Seeing there are no further general comments, comment, Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. There was quite a bit said. What I heard, though, was clearly "people, people, people," and I think that that's reflected in our mandate. I think all of the Cabinet is very people-focused but recognizing still that you have got to have a strong economy and to support social programs. Anyone that's in the social program area field knows that there's got to be money to pay for programs. You have to have a balance.

I heard: if everything's a priority, then nothing's a priority. It's a very wise saying that has been around for centuries, and I think it's true. I think that all of us recognize that, if we were provided a different financial picture at the beginning, before we became elected Ministers and Premiers and this mandate became, we would have had a more condensed list of priorities. We can't take back what's done. It's done. My job as the Premier and with my Cabinet was to actually make the mandate and address the 22 priorities that all of us know are probably a little bit too ambitious, knowing where we are fiscally at this point.

I know that good communication is key. We all have to work on that. Even though I am a social worker and was for many years, I have to work on my own issues. If I'm big enough and old enough to admit that, I think that we all have to work to admit that, and we have to work together. Together doesn't mean only Cabinet. It means all MLAs, all of us as MLAs, working together to advance the priorities of the people. That's what we're here for. We are trying to listen better and trying to work better together. I hope that we've addressed, maybe not every single concern, not every single concern of mine is in here either, but consensus model says that we all have something in here.

Working together, it's not about just working together as ourselves as MLAs. It's working with our Indigenous governments, our municipal governments, our employees, and the residents of the Northwest Territories. I had made a commitment that it will be in mandate letters, and that will be in mandate letters. We're just in the process of doing them now, now that this work is finished.

I know that some people have said that the outcomes and the targets are low; example, the housing is only 100 units. Honestly, I struggled with that because we've talked about think big, and we ended up with 22 priorities that are unrealistic. We talked about be bold. I am willing to be bold, but I also recognize that not all Members are on the same page, so some Members are saying, be bold, and we will look at the mandate and see if it's realistic in a couple of years and see if we can get it. I'm not so sure that all Members will actually only look at the mandate and see if it's realistic because I've heard some Members will be evaluating my Ministers to see if they can achieve every one of those mandates. That made it difficult for me as a Premier. My job is to try to work with everyone and make it bold, but at the same time, I'm not going to set my Ministers up as scapegoats and say we're going to solve world peace in four years and then get crucified and all of us taken out of our seats in two years because we didn't do it. There is not one of us that's here that I believe is naive enough to believe that we can solve world peace in four years. We have to do what's achievable. It was a fine balance between being bold and being realistic so that I could actually try to protect on both sides, hear the Members, protect the Ministers from getting pulled from their seats because they can't do everything that is expected.

Keeping our money here? Absolutely. I am all about keeping our money in the Northwest Territories. I think that we have work to do with the federal government, with the people, in our own policies and procedures. Every dollar that leaves the Northwest Territories is a dollar lost. Every dollar we can keep in the Northwest Territories revolves around and around, and that same dollar might end up going from different hands and end up being $10 for the amount of times that it is actually changed hands.

The other thing I want to say is that people say that we want to get it done and get the mandate done so we can get the work done. I want to reinforce that this mandate is a mandate. It is based on your 22 priorities, but the work has not stopped. The work is still going on. I will use my own department as the Minister of Indigenous Affairs. Since I have been elected, without this mandate document, I have phoned every single Indigenous government and had personal calls with them. I have met with the Intergovernmental Council and told them we are doing business differently. I have had biennials and talked about doing things differently. We are doing things differently. I am scaring them, in all honesty, because we are meeting after. Traditionally, it was: we sat there; we did the issues; they went away; negotiating team did the issues; they went away. I have sat with the chiefs myself after we did our biennials and said, "Tell me what the issues are." We are already doing things, and we are doing things differently. I hope that you recognize that it is not all there.

Going to Ottawa with Indigenous governments, that is something not in the mandate. Not every single action is in this mandate. We have already had discussions with Indigenous governments about making a federal strategy and actually going to Ottawa. That is already in place. It is not here, but we are already having those discussions with Indigenous governments. Not everything is in the mandate.

Again, Madam Chair, I think the biggest thing for me is remembering that the 22 priorities were done by 19 Members of the Legislative Assembly with, in my opinion, not the correct financial information. The money was right, but we weren't told about the forced growth and the unions and the costs that would come out. We all thought there all was more money on the table than there is. I am hoping. I believe that myself and my Ministers are committed to working hard. They all came here for the needs of the people. I do not believe any Minister sitting here has come here just for themselves. I do hope that you will hold us to account with this mandate but that you will also recognize when the time comes to review this mandate. You will step back and say, "Our job is to review the mandate and see if it is accomplishable or not. Is it realistic or not? What can we do in the final terms of this government?" versus saying, "Do we take down every one of those Ministers and the Premier because they did not solve world peace in four years?" Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Seeing no further general comments, does the committee agree to review Tabled Document 12-19(2), 2019-2023 Mandate of the Government of the Northwest Territories, by priority?

Committee, we will begin on page 6, increase the number of affordable homes and reduce core housing need. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. If I could have some explanation of how the 100 units built and transitioned out work. Presently, we have a cap of 2,400 units. If we are unable to transition units out of the Housing Corporation, is it possible that we end up with 2,500 units? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. That is the issue. It is an issue I struggled with for many years. That is why I came in to be an MLA in the first place, was because of housing and working with homeless people. This is my passion. We cannot increase the number of public-housing stock. In 2038, the operating maintenance money is gone. On average, we are spending $22,500, I believe, unless it has changed in the last two years. That was when I was two years ago as the housing Minister, $22,000 on average for every single public housing unit is what it cost the GNWT. We can't increase that stock because the money is off the table in 2038.

How we can increase it? That is about thinking outside of the cube, did you say, or box? I would say box, but I think somebody used a better term. That little cubic thing that you move around. Thinking outside the box. If we can't afford it, then why are we stuck with saying they all have to be public-housing units? Why don't we move into homeownership? Treaty people have been saying, "They promised us homes." For centuries, they have been saying that. Public housing is saying, "We don't have the money to maintain. We can't grow anymore." They have been saying that for years. They couldn't even give me an answer on when we stopped adding on to the number. The answer is: give people homes, not setting up people to fail. I do not believe that people who cannot succeed should be left on their own. There are many, many people who can afford to be in homeownership programs such as the lease-to-own. One of the Members talked about single parents, single moms. I was a single mom with two kids and lived in a dump of a trailer here in Yellowknife and so proud of that trailer. When I sold that $40,000 trailer, I bought myself a $100,000 house. When I sold that, I bought another one. It was the start. That is how I say we can do it. We bring in 100, and we get rid of 100 through homeownership. If we keep doing that, we will increase the number of homes for people in the NWT, and that should be our ultimate goal. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you. My question just mostly relates to holding this to account. We are going to get rid of 100 units, and we are going to build 100 new. We will stick with 2,400 units. To me, this is what the Housing Corporation has always been doing. We all recognize the Indigenous governments are much better suited to get federal money for housing. If the Indigenous governments build 100 units in partnership with the Housing Corporation, will we have met this mandate item?

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is the goal for the Government of the Northwest Territories. Again, I am sorry if I get passionate too much, but this is my passion. We will have 100 new homes, and 100 people will be moved into homeownership. The Indigenous governments, that is aside. The previous government with housing was always saying to the federal government, "Give us the money, and we will put it out there." This government, I have met with the federal government; I have met with Ministers; I have met with our Prime Minister. We have a different tone. I want houses in the North. I have been saying to the federal government, "Give it to the Indigenous governments." All I want is housing in the North. We are not in the way. We are not fighting the federal government and Indigenous governments. People have said, "If we work hand-in-hand, we are stronger." If we work hand-in-hand with our Indigenous governments and they can get housing money and we can use our housing money, then we are doing better service. It is not about one or the other. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. I will go on to Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My first question in regards to these 100 units is: how do you intend to ensure that the construction work done on these units is actually going to go to northern employers? Thank you.

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am trying to remember. I think northern business was a priority in here. I have looked at this mandate so long it is starting to blend. However, even if it is not clear enough in there, it is a priority of Cabinet. Amongst our Cabinet priorities that I shared with Members, Cabinet as a whole, we have taken a stance that we want as much as possible northern businesses doing northern work. None of us is happy with sending the dollars South. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have also noticed that in other priorities, there was indication of some other housing units. For example, on page 32, it does say that for mental health and addictions programs, there are nine transitional housing units that will be added to several communities. Will that number of housing units affect the 100 housing units committed in the first priority on page 6?

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just confirmed with my Minister. Absolutely not. Those are in addition. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you. I think I am good at this time.

I will move on to Member for Frame Lake.

Merci, Madame la Presidente. I am convinced of the Premier's passion on this issue. I know she has got lived experience. I have already seen evidence that housing is going to be a higher priority with this Cabinet, and I am very supportive of that. I just question the number here, the increase in 100 units while we're also going to transition 100 units for home ownership. It looks like it's going to be a wash. Maybe I am misunderstanding this. I get where the Premier is coming from. I think most of us share that priority. If she can explain the numbers a little better to me, that would be helpful. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The old model with the housing corporation was we waited till a building deteriorated until it was unusable. Then, we ripped it down and we put another one on. One house, one family.

This model is the same. I have already said, we can't exceed the 2,200. I think it's 22. Is it 24 now? 2,400 and 200 market. The 2,400, we can't exceed that. We're not going to exceed that. Instead of waiting until they deteriorate and ripping them down and then put another one up, which was the old model, why aren't we giving those houses better, in good repair, not junk. I'm not okay with giving away shacks. I lived in a shack. I know the problems with living in a home that's not appropriate. Give 100 homes away, build 100 more. You're right, we stay at 2,400. But if I use it one and one because it's easier. In the old model, we have one house. We wait until it deteriorates. At that time when it's deteriorated, we rip it down, and we put one more house on. We have one house.

This model says, we give 100 homes away. We build 100 homes. We have 200 people living in homes versus 100 from the old one. We're not increasing. We cannot afford to increase our public housing stock. We don't know how we're going to figure it out. We can't leave our future governments in jeopardy and say, well, this government will be done in 2038, which isn't very far if you think about it; that they can deal with that. We have an obligation to protect our future. My goal is to have people in homes, irrelevant of whether it's public housing or not. In fact, I'm not even a big fan of public housing, period. I'd rather have all people in home ownerships. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I guess I understand the math a little better. What I want to do, though, I want the Minister to think completely outside of the box. There is this glass ceiling of 2,400 units. We have to break that glass ceiling if we are going to ever get all of our residents housed properly. We cannot live within that limit. We are going to have to find more ways to raise revenues. We are going to have to get more money out of Ottawa. If we ever have a hope of actually getting adequate housing, suitable housing, affordable housing, for all our residents, we've got to get rid of that cap. I think it's as simple as that. We just have to find other ways to do it. If we can't house our people, there's no future here. I want the Minister, the Premier to think a little more seriously about that. I understand there are costs associated with this, but if we don't have housing for people, there's no economy. There's nothing happening here. We've got to get rid of that cap. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, I hear the Member's concerns, but I want to go back to the philosophy. One, the Government of the Northwest Territories is not the only housing provider in the Northwest Territories. I've already said earlier that we are working with Indigenous governments. Indigenous governments are going to Ottawa and getting money. IRC is a great example of that, that they got money in the last Assembly for housing. I know that Dene Nation is putting their name forward for housing, for money. I'm not fighting those. Those are extra.

What I'm saying is that, out of 45,000 people, 2,400 houses for public housing that people can't afford should be sufficient if we can get people into home ownership who can afford it. There are many people in our public-housing units who are not low-income, and they need to be moved into home ownership. If we had more than 2,200 people forever who are in public-housing units, we have bigger problems. We have poverty problems. Our goal should not be to increase the number of public-housing units. Our goal should be to decrease poverty for people so that people don't have to be in public-housing units. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I don't want to prolong this. I think we share the same objective. We probably just disagree on maybe how we're going to get there. I just think that housing needs to be our top priority, probably, and that we can't let this glass ceiling get in the way of this. I'm not convinced that, even if we increase the housing stock by 100 units, that's even going to start to take care of the waiting list to get into public housing period.

In any event, I think we agree on where we need to be. I read the On Level Ground report from the last Assembly, where it would cost, at least a few years ago, half a billion dollars to get all of housing at a core need. We need to get a plan to do that. If part of it is home ownership, I get it. Getting the Indigenous governments to be partners and do some of it, that's fine. We've got to get rid of this. We cannot let this glass ceiling hamper our efforts on housing. That's all I have. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will take it as a comment. I didn't hear a real question. I do appreciate that we're on the same track. We just talk different, though.

I just want to remind that we are only doing one round of questions per priorities, so, Members, I encourage you to use short preambles for your questions, and I encourage the Premier to respond completely but briefly. Thank you. I will move on to the Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am just looking at the transition of 100 individuals and/or families to home ownership. I think it's so important, this item. I think that, if people have ownership in their homes, they'll take pride in it. They'll take care of it. I'm looking here at how. When we go through this exercise, the how is the most important thing, how we get there. I'm looking at the lease-to-own policy developed and promoted. I would like to ask the Premier: if this policy is developed and promoted, how is land tenure part of this? Is it included in here? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Madam Premier. Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.

Thank you for your comment. The land tenure issue and the home ownership issue are two different departments. Department of Lands would be dealing with the land tenure, and housing would be dealing with the home ownership program. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We will have to look into it, but I do believe that public-housing units are on their own property, so the land tenure wouldn't be an issue. It would go with them. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

I am hearing a couple of different accounts here. I just want to make sure I get this straight in my head. Do I need to direct this question to the Minister of Lands? I didn't hear that.

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I had to get clarification. It has been a couple of years since I was the housing Minister. Housing owns their own property. The housing units that would be transferred to home ownership, the land tenure would go with those homes. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I am good here. The Premier answered my question, and I'm satisfied with the answer. Mahsi cho.

We'll move to the Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Like the Premier, my career immediately prior to coming into the Assembly was with housing, a non-profit housing agency, and I just want to talk about the numbers for a second. The first is that a significant portion of the housing stock, something like 30 percent, is 40 years old or older. That means that, out of those 2,400 houses, about 800 of them are going to be finished their useful life within the next 10 years. That's 800 houses. There are 900 people on the waiting list for housing across the NWT; about a third of them are in Yellowknife. Some of those people are on the waiting list because income assistance demands that they be there, but some of those people on those waiting lists need housing. They are not income-assistance recipients; they are low-income earners, or there are no other housing alternatives in their communities.

The next thing I want to say is that the vast majority of high-income earners in public housing are in Yellowknife, and there are no ownership options in Yellowknife. I am really struggling with understanding how 100 houses is going to make a dent in the age of the homes, the number of people on the waiting lists, and the homeownership options that are available in Yellowknife, so I would be very interested to hear from the Premier on these points. Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Madam Premier.

There are homeownership opportunities in Yellowknife, our large capital. The homeless assistance program, I can't remember the acronym for it, does help people try to get into their own homes. I'm trying to think if it was income support; I've had too many portfolios, now. Housing does the housing supplement; the rent supplement program is with housing. So the rent supplement program is with the Housing Corporation.

I was in social work for over 20 years and working in Yellowknife with homeless people, and I never even knew about the program, so I think that what we've done wrong, and, again, the government, I've said that for the last four years, the worst thing about the government is we're bad communicators. We're just so busy trying to keep on top of the water that we forget to get things communicated. I think that the rent supplement program needs to be promoted more, out there more, because that helps the majority of middle-income and lower-income families, and then the rent for income support needs to be utilized more for low-income families. Again, the federal government is supposed to be coming with another initiative that they will be providing housing support. Hopefully, that will come through fairly soon, and, if not, then we have an obligation to step up.

So there are housing needs in Yellowknife. There are huge housing needs in Yellowknife. We have to look at expanding our rent supplement, but we also have housing needs in every single small community, and we can't forget the small communities. Because Yellowknife has 100 wait list; the small community, one community might only have 10 people on a waiting list, but those 10 people on the wait list might all be living in one home, and so that is the balance that we always have to meet. We will never have enough to do everything in four years, but we have to start chipping away. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Premier, I am never going to apologize for looking at the needs of Yellowknife residents. The waiting list in Yellowknife is 350 families or individuals; it's even harder to house individuals. I am not saying that housing isn't important in other places; I'm saying housing is important in Yellowknife. Where I live and work in Yellowknife Centre, there is also the largest group of people who are in public housing, and they are not necessarily looking for a rent supplement program. If they are high-income earners, they may be looking at purchasing homes, and it's news to me that public housing will facilitate the purchase of market housing in Yellowknife, the purchase of it; not the rental of it, but the purchase of it. High-income earners prefer purchasing because they are able to acquire an asset, as you did in your own life story. That makes more sense for them in the long run, so, as we often say in this room, one size doesn't fit all. The circumstances in Yellowknife are unique, and they need to be part of this solution of providing more housing, so I want you to consider those needs, as well.

I also want to reiterate the point that my friend from Frame Lake said. I know that 2,400 units has been the ceiling for a long time, but it doesn't make sense for it to be the ceiling indefinitely. The demand is simply too great. We're putting out money for health, we're putting out money for education, we're putting out money for employment, but, if someone doesn't have anywhere to live, then are we really using that money wisely? This is really a place, as my friend from Kam Lake said, for some real innovation, some really out-of-the-box thinking about these big numbers that are about need, about waiting lists, about the age of the existing stock, and coming up with ways to try to make a bigger dent, if at all possible, than 100. I mean, we have to start somewhere. I recognize that, but 100 units with 900 people on the waiting list, you can do the math and see that that's just not enough. That's me rambling on, and I don't have a question. Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Would Madam Premier like to respond?

Very quickly, I'm going to try. Absolutely right, we do have to get more. I mean, and there is work. We have to stop thinking that this is only GNWT. If we settle the self-governments, we have self-governments that are wanting to draw down things, so, you know, we have to work with our Indigenous governments and our federal government. We've already gone to Ottawa. We're trying to promote the need for our housing, so it isn't something that we're just looking at as: this is it. I would like to see more than this. I'm trying to be realistic. If, in two years, when we look at the mandate -- not the Ministers; we're not pulling Ministers out. That's not what we agreed to do. We agreed to look at the mandate and see if it's doable. It would be interesting to see where we are and see if we could actually increase it for the last two years. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. With respect to if we decide to, I guess, sell off houses in a community, will there be a house there to replace that one? Will it stay in that community? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Thank you for your comment. Going forward, I just want it to be really clear that there seems to be some confusion over the 100 houses that we are to be building during the next four years. The Housing Corporation is really emphasizing Indigenous partnership and hopefully wanting to receive federal funding this year. Looking at the approach going forward, right now, we're looking at our stock that is, currently, we're going to offset them and we're going to turn them over. Our main focus is to enter into a partnership with Indigenous groups, and eventually they would be able to, if we had five units in Hay River, those five units, my first contact would be with Indigenous groups, meeting with them and working in assistance with them, that they would be wanting to take over these units in partnership. Also, at a federal level, the Indigenous groups have the access to a co-investment fund that is offered through the federal government, so for them to come and approach us and for us to achieve the 100 units throughout the Northwest Territories, it's a partnership that I'm wanting to work with. If we were to guide and help and support the Indigenous groups, the stakeholders throughout the Northwest Territories, to meet us halfway with the funding that already exists there, then we are able to multiply on those units. One hundred units doesn't seem very much for the next four years, but 100 units is what we have to work with, and I look at that going forward and wanting to have people enter into homeownership is the main goal of the Housing Corporation and not setting them up for failure, to honestly give them that ownership that these are their homes, and then to try to eliminate and work with that waiting list that we have.

When we're constructing in the communities, if we're taking five units out of Hay River, I want five units back there, working towards that and really looking at we do have social impacts of poverty line, and the list goes on. That really contributes to our problem with the shortage of housing in the Northwest Territories. I hope that answers your question, and I am absolutely passionate about the portfolio, as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister responsible for Housing. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's hard to believe that she's that excited about it. When we talk about 100 units, is there a dollar value to those units? Like, I look at it and I think, well, 100 units, but is it 100 houses that have 10 bedrooms to them, or is it just a dollar value? I expect that we could have more than 100 units. With the way people's lives are changing nowadays, we don't need bigger units anymore, and so I'm expecting that the Housing Corporation will look at that.

The other thing, too, is we talk about the 100 units, but there is also the opportunity for developers in the communities to develop properties and house some of the people who require it, as well. So I guess, when I think of 100, I think that, you know, we could hit 200. It just depends how we do it, and it depends on how much money we have to play with. The partnerships are great. We have to do that; and, with Indigenous groups, that's a no-brainer; we have to have them on-side, but there are other avenues, as well. I'm not sure if there's a question there or not, but anyway, thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier, would you like to respond?

She's as passionate as I was in the last Assembly.

Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The 100 units that we're forecasting, I want to do 24 units going forward. I know that looking at can we exceed that amount; 100 units is what is forecasted and, looking at the federal funding that is available to Indigenous groups and to people across Canada who are able to access, if we were to have $1 million, and we're over that $1 million, we're only going to build two duplexes; but, if we have $1 million and we have Indigenous group stakeholders that have entered into the co-investment fund and a $500,000 duplex and the Housing Corporation is only putting up $100,000, then that gives me the incentive that we have enough money to go across the Northwest Territories. If I can work in partnership with the Indigenous groups and with the stakeholders throughout the Northwest Territories, I would like to stretch that money as far as we can.

I think the other thing is that, going forward and looking at the community plans that we're developing, you did have some comments on what style of houses and what units are we constructing, those community plans are going to give that information to the Housing Corporation. Based on each of the communities, I want the communities to tell the Housing Corporation: this is what we need. We could go in and we could build single units, three-bedroom units, but is it adequate for that community, depending on what it is that they want and what they want to see going forward?

The other thing is that, a lot of people who have their current units right now, they are looking at homeownership and repair; homeownership, home repair, seniors aging in place. We do have programs that support that. So, going forward, depending on what the region, what the communities want, would be the style of units that are going to be going into each of the communities in each of the regions.

The other thing I really want to emphasize is I want to tie it in with education and training, as well. These units are going to be stick-built. I want them to create employment in the communities, and, going forward and looking at that initiative, it gives a lot of independence and a lot of hope for our community members and throughout the Northwest Territories. Also looking at homeownership is the ultimate goal for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. I would like to see people own their own homes, access our programs. Advertisement is key, as well, as I want people to know the types of programs that we have, because I feel that they need to reach the needs of the Northwest Territories.

The programs are already existing. I see that they are adequate. Coming from a smaller community, I get it; I see it. I know what it's like to be living in a home where there is no plumbing, there's no furnace, and whatever, but going forward I also know what it's like to become a homeowner and the pride that you have and the skills, as well, of maintaining that home. So, going forward, the priority for the Housing Corporation is homeownership. I would like to emphasize that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. I know you're passionate, but can you try and keep your answers shorter?

---Laughter

Would Madam Premier like to...? Okay, Member for Hay River South.

This one, you can just say yes or no. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm kind of confused here, now. We're talking about 100 units. Is that 100 units based on developing and receiving funds through Indigenous groups, as well, or is that just 100 units based on GNWT dollars; just on GNWT dollars, yes or no?

Madam Premier.

Yes, it's GNWT only. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.

I like the idea of the increased homeownership. I'd like to see the terms of reference that you're going to put out and if there is going to be a means test, you know, or is it going to be that you're just going to turn over the home to the individuals? Because, you know, I was thinking about this. Most of the people in housing, public housing, are Indigenous, and, as you know, Salt River did a program with the Government of the Northwest Territories, but there are a lot of other people. I want to make sure that we don't make it very difficult for the home ownership, the increase in home ownership. You have to make it so that they don't fail. Sure, there has to be a means test; sure, you have to make sure that they're able to pay for the utilities, and there are lots of people in that category.

I think that it's very important that the Indigenous governments are involved. In Fort Smith, it's Salt River and the Metis Nation, the Fort Smith Metis Nation. I think it's extremely important because it's mostly our own people who are in those houses, so they have to have input into how distribution takes place. I think that we could be very innovative and business-minded, like Rocky said. We could get more units built; like, if you have five designated for Fort Smith, or 10, we might be able to make it 20. You know, Fort Smith is always open to new ideas and to make sure that we get as much as we can.

The other thing I want to mention, though, is we also have to have support to develop the reserve. We have no developed lots on reserve. The water and sewer in the lift station is a must on the Salt River Reserve. The federal government is not taking ownership for this to happen. I'm sure that you had discussions with the Chief of Salt River, Mr. Poitras. I fully support and always will support the development of that reserve. It is all in place. Everything has been done. It is just a matter of them signing the papers, saying that they're going to go ahead with the development of the service lots, the 30-some lots on reserve and the lift station so that they can move forward. Salt River has the ability to move forward, and so does the Fort Smith Metis Nation. I have a lot of confidence in the Indigenous people of Fort Smith. If we all work together to make it happen and distribute equally, I fully support your initiative.

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, there would be a means test, although I want to clarify. Sometimes means test limit. Low income people can't get into housing, so I am going to be watching that as well very closely because, if someone's making $87,000, I think in Yellowknife, you use 87,000, the philosophy is that they deserve to be in public housing. I never made $87,000 in Yellowknife when I was living in my $40,000 shack, so I need to make sure that, just because people are making less than that, that our government doesn't penalize them and say, you can't do it, because I think people can. We cannot set people up to fail, so the terms of reference have to be really good within that.

I think that it's important that we need to work with our Indigenous governments. Salt River, its former chief, was a great example of what we can do when actually the GNWT and Indigenous governments do work together to provide housing for people. As for the support to the reserves, it's something where we've talked to the federal Ministers already. We will be talking to the Prime Minister. It was just an introductory meeting, not as in-depth as I would have liked. As we move forward, it is something. It is not acceptable that we have two reserves in the Northwest Territories and that they are not getting the same services as the rest of the reserves in the south. I do not accept this, and I think that we will continue for this government to advocate that the reserves in the Northwest Territories get recognized by the federal government, and get the funding that comes with reserves in the South. In the meantime, I will not turn a blind eye to supporting of people on reserves. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.

It's okay to talk, but I want to see it in writing. I think it's very important that it's written, a letter is written on behalf of the reserves, both reserves including Salt River, that the development of the reserve of the water and sewer in the lift station is supported at Salt River. Hay River has water and sewer on their reserve, but we don't. It's a new reserve, and that's part of the implementation of the reserve. There are no lots available for building houses. It's a very important part of their development, and I think that we have to ensure that happens. It's a great asset, not only for Salt River, but for the entire community of Fort Smith. Anything that happens within the community is good for everyone. I want to make sure that this happens. You can talk about it and we've done that. I want to see it in writing, that the Minister gets a letter saying that you support this, and carbon copy the Salt River Reserve and myself.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will commit to providing a letter that I will share with both reserves. Give me a little bit of time. I want to meet with the reserves first to make sure that it's the letter that they want because we are talking about advocating. Once we've met with both reserves and we know what we're going to bring forward to the federal government, I will stand beside them in that battle, and then we will provide a copy, as long as the reserves, I'm being careful now, agree that we can open it up, and we will provide a letter. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.

I have no other questions. Thank you.

Thank you. If there are no further questions on the increase number of affordable homes and reduce core housing needs? Seeing none, the committee will move to page 8. Settle and implement treaty, land, resources, and self-government agreements. A reminder, Members, we'll do one round and have ten minutes. Member for Thebacha.

The settle and implementation treaty, land, resources, and self-government agreements is extremely important for the development of the Northwest Territories. We all talk very loosely in our discussions around the table of ensuring that Indigenous rights are respected, Indigenous people are looked after. We have to sort of walk the talk.

I am very passionate about the subject. I am going to go back to the two outstanding. One implementation is the Salt River claim, the outstanding claim of the NWT Metis Nation within my area, and the Dehcho claim, the Akaitcho claim. I mean we could go on and on. I wonder if the will is really there to settle. I've often wondered if the people that are actually settling the claim from Indigenous Affairs, the negotiators are actually the ones that we should really be using. Sometimes, I wonder if they really understand what's on the table. I think that it's extremely important that we do not be barriers to settling these claims and these implementations so that our people could move forward with everybody else instead of waiting for social assistance or public housing and all these other things that we seem to be a burden to. I think that it's extremely important that we understand that the federal government also could be a big barrier.

Ever since devolution, the more I heard around the table when I was at the table with Indigenous governments is that the main barrier since the lands have been turned over in devolution, that we have been a big barrier. That's got to change. The mandate has got to be put forward in good faith. Meaningful negotiation has got to take place. The negotiators that go to the table have to understand where everybody's coming from and mediate through those claims in good faith. I don't see that happening. People are still coming to me, and I have chiefs phoning me all the time because I know them. I sat with them. I saw their struggles. I saw the way they tried to help their people and how they feel. When you settle these claims, it's going to be a benefit to that community and to the Northwest Territories, just like the way Salt River has done, even though we have no support for the implementation.

It is very dear to my heart because being there in leadership for 10 years, anything you do with the settlement of a claim has always benefited not only Salt River but all the community. Anything you develop supports the whole community. We don't have to depend on government all the time. You're more self-sufficient. I did wonder how you're going to be able to ensure that this actually happens.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. That is why I didn't commit to settling every single one of them. They have been on the plate, some of them, for 30 years. We have committed to doing business differently. Like I said, I have talked to the Indigenous governments. I have met with a couple of them now. I have been saying the same thing I said in the House the other day. I have been telling them, "I don't see us as federal government, GNWT, and Indigenous governments. I see us as federal, GNWT, and Indigenous all working together at the table." I talked about meeting with them after because it has only been negotiators at the table. I feel that the Premier wasn't there enough. Every single bilateral that we are having now is going to have a time with the Premier and the chief alone to talk about negotiations, a more intense struggle.

I can't commit that it is going to work, but what I can say is that we did have one Indigenous government that was backing away from the GNWT and saying, "We are not working with you, period. We are only working with the federal government." Talked to them, and they are back at the table. That says if we had an Indigenous government that was saying, "We don't want anything to do with you," and now they are saying, "We are willing to come back," and that chief told me he said, "Because I worked with you when you were the housing Minister, and I trust you." I know it is not a lot to go on, but I think relationships are key when you are working. That is all I have to offer, the honesty and the relationship that I carry forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.