Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I would like to bring witnesses in.

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, would you please introduce your witnesses.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I have with me today my Deputy Minister Steve Loutitt and Assistant Deputy Minister David Moore for asset management.

Thank you. And as we go through, just let me know section if you wish to switch out witnesses, okay. All right.

Welcome. So the committee has agreed to forego general comments. Is the committee agreed to proceed to the detail contained in the Tabled Document.

Committee, the Department of Infrastructure begins on page 46. We will defer the departmental totals and review the estimates by activity summary beginning on page 47 with asset management. Questions, comments. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The first question I have is -- for the Minister is I'd like to -- and the reason I'm going to ask this is because in the -- in the paper here a few days ago, or on the news I guess, radio show, we had a shell fire over the bow of this Assembly and saying we're not doing anything with respect to infrastructure and new capital projects. So I'd like to ask the Minister the value of new projects or initiative that may be on the books in this capital budget. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, that's a really good question, and you know you look at the Department of Infrastructure and you'll see as we get through our capital budget here that all of the projects that we're advancing in terms of, you know, you look at our asks for next year's $299 million. Last year we spent $166. Yes, there are carryover provisions for that. In terms of the dollar figure amount, I'm just going to look to Mr. Moore to answer. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Moore

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess the next question would be, I know we're looking at this budget here, but is the department looking at new initiatives or working on new initiatives that we will probably see in the next capital budget. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, Mr. Moore mentioned a couple of our large capital projects that, you know, we received funding for. And going forward for some of our new initiatives, we were able to secure funding for Frank Channel bridge as one example. Also we have the Inuvik wind project that's coming up. We have some big infrastructure projects perhaps you know for the long-term care centres, just to name a few, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.

I appreciate the answers. I have no further questions.

Thank you. Any other questions, comments on asset management? Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I see that we have the funding for the Great Bear River bridge in here. I believe that's 75-cent dollars and I see it's estimated completion is 2024-2025. Can I just get a bit of an update on where we're at with the Great Bear River bridge and whether the estimated completion date in here is accurate. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, yes, we are looking at the Great Bear River bridge as one of our major infrastructure projects. So where we're at now is we're still in the early stages of doing consultation with the communities that are impacted up along the Mackenzie Valley Highway there. And I'm just going to get Madam Chair, David to speak about more detail as some of the processes that's required and where we're at in terms of timeline. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Moore.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm sure we'll have many more questions as we get to the procurement phase of the bridge.

I see that there's a couple deferred maintenance lines in here, and I know there's also deferred maintenance in the operations budget. Can I just get an updated figure on how much in this capital budget is being spent on deferred maintenance and how much our backlog is in deferred maintenance. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just trying to look at the deferred maintenance. So right now, the program is intended for completing repairs to buildings that get delayed or backlog because of budget limitations or lack of funding. So the facility condition is about 20 percent of the total infrastructure portfolio per year. You know, I believe I've said the number in the past, the total value of deferred maintenance to capital delivery is about $6.8 million which includes $1.8 million carried forward. So this is -- every year we have an annual allocation of $5 million. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, can I also get an updated figure of -- I recognize we're spending about 5 million a year. We had to carry some over. I'm not sure why we didn't spend it all. I understand there's three categories of deferred maintenance and the most urgent category has quite a significant cost to it. Can I just get that updated figure for that. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. So the backlog cost, is that what the Member's asking, sorry? Thank you, Madam Chair. So right now, we have three different categories and the first one is called "currently critical". There's about $10 million that's allocated to that. The "potentially critical" is 16 million. And the "necessary but not critical" is 553. So yes, we do have a big deferred maintenance request from all of government assets. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I get an updated figure of, I believe this is the section, how much is being spent here on highways and roads maintenance. Yeah, I know there's some new bridges and obviously I don't want the figure included of the Great Bear River bridge but just a total being spent here on maintenance in the capital budget. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm going to see if -- if Mr. Moore has the number, figure. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Moore.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And perhaps I could just get -- you know, that's a fairly large figure. I know if we look at the kind of plans that that number does fluctuate and there's hundreds of millions to be spent maintaining our transportation system.

I know the Minister spoke previously about kind of our roads and highways being in good condition according to our grading system and perhaps there was some criticism or disbelief of that. But can I just get a sense of that amount of money we're spending on road maintenance, whether we consider there to be a backlog, you know, of deferred maintenance or a backlog making sure our roads are maintained presently. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, yes, it's about $5 million -- well actually it's about 4.9 but closer to 5 so I re-reference that. So some of the projects address backlog relate to end of life of existing building, mechanical, electrical, structural components. Building code relate primary life and safety issues. Roof exterior, envelope failures, additional issues related to some of the building and fire codes. And so yes, we do have -- cost the department quite a bit of money each year to look at some of those.

I'm wondering if, Madam Chair, if David has the number. It's about -- okay, no it's about $22 million for reconstruction. $16 million for bridge and culverts and $30 million on O and M every year. So it's about $68 million total. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Did you want Mr. Moore to -- or we're back to Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I guess I'm just -- you know, we spend $68 million a year maintaining our transportation network. Obviously we need to do that and perhaps there's a debate whether it's in good condition or terrible condition. I'm just trying to get a sense, you know, we don't really have a roads report and we don't track roads in the same way we do assets with deferred maintenance. I just want to get a sense of spending $68 million a year maintaining our transportation network is enough money or whether the department considers, according to the prescribed highway standards, that there is a significant deficit in how much money we're spending on maintaining our roads and transportation. Is $68 million not enough? And I believe it's -- there's hundreds of millions to be done -- to bring our roads up to standard but I would like to get the department's view on that, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, yes, 68 is not enough. We could ask for more. We could use more. But obviously that's not the case.

If I can just it's a technical question, so if I could ask David Moore, Mr. Moore to add anything further. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Moore.

Thank you. Any other further questions, comments to asset management. Member for Monfwi.

Well, you can correct me, I am not too sure about this, but I know we're talking about infrastructure and asset management.

I'm looking at Whati access road and it's good, you know, it's -- I guess the road is going to be opening on November 30th. But there is the concern, I'm not too sure, maybe it's programs and services so that's why I said maybe correct me, please. And the community, there is some concerns regarding emergency response team and who is going to be responsible. They need clear directions. They need a commitment of the GNWT of who's going to be responding because it's going to be a busy highway. I'm sure, like I was looking at some message the other day and then people are anxious, you know, to get out to -- so I'm just wondering who is going to be responsible regarding the emergency response team so I just need a clear direction of where I should address but I don't want to miss the opportunity of voicing that.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. As we're going through this in Committee of the Whole, this is the asset and that would be considered more of the operations and I know that if you talk -- we can bring this up in the other areas, because I think that has been raised over through a lot of the different highways, so like the Behchoko, even in Inuvik, so it's more of the operations and lack of, so.

But if you have anything to do with the road itself, then you can ask the Minister and it's okay. All right. Okay. Yeah, no that's good. All right, so I will move to Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. So this past summer, I had a chance to drive out to Fort Simpson, down to Fort Smith, so got to see a big part of our highway system firsthand. And parts of it were in good shape and parts of it are definitely not in good shape, particularly the part between the junction where Highway 3 goes off towards Fort Providence and off to Fort Simpson, there's a stretch in the middle there that is not very -- in my opinion, actually quite unsafe. And I just don't know why we keep building new roads when we can't even properly maintain and fix up the ones we've got.

And then my colleague from Monfwi talked about how there's concerns with public safety once the road to Whati is opened. I've got concerns that I'll be bringing forward in terms of readiness for harvesting, wildlife harvesting along the road. We don't seem to work, or support communities when roads get built to them, and Tuk being a good example and I think Whati is going to be the same story all over again.

But I do have some specific questions in here. The Whati access road, you know, I've been a Member for six years now and I only found out maybe a year ago that the Tlicho all-season road doesn't even go to a community, that it actually ends up outside of Whati and that, as I think the former MLA for Monfwi described the access road as "a moose path."

So I see that there's money in here now to fix this up. I just find this astounding that we don't even build a road right to a community but how much now is this access road going to cost that's in the budget here. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, when I first became Minister of Infrastructure, I was quite shocked about that as well.

In terms of the amount, I think we're along the lines of -- does -- David, yeah, can I hand it over to Mr. Moore. I don't have the number in front of me. Sorry, Madam Chair.

Mr. Moore.

Thank you. Member.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I just think that if we're going to build roads, more roads in the future, you need to do some kind of full cost accounting to make sure that we deal with all the impacts of them on communities, on wildlife, you actually build roads to communities not to nowhere. But those are just gratuitous comments from a lowly Regular MLA, Madam Chair.

So the Inuvik to Tuk highway, the listing here says reconstruction work. This seems to be a pretty new highway. How much reconstruction work is required on this and is any of it sort of covered under any sort of warranty or guarantee. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, in 2020, maintenance work was completed on Inuvik-Tuk Highway which included some gravel surfacing. Also 26 kilometers of the section between Kilometer 26 and 138 was about a cost of $495,000 and there were also repairs onto the bridge.

The Department of Infrastructure engaged Associated Engineering to assess some of the road conditions, review some of the existing operations, and I'm not going to use up Members' time but I'm going to look over to David Moore to see if he has the exact number. Because we did apply to federal funding to do a little bit of work on that highway as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Moore.

Thank you. Member.

Thanks, Madam Chair. So, yeah, it looks like there's more coming towards us in terms of O and M for roads that are built and we never really understand the O and M when we build them. But I had asked if any of this work is covered -- or should have been covered through any kind of guarantee or, you know, we build the thing, presumably the people that build it have some sort of responsibility to build it to some kind of standard and there's a guarantee period or something for performance. Are we outside of that range now so all of this stuff is coming out of our own pocket or is there any kind of guarantee period built into these things when we build roads. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there is -- the warranty was one year. And, yes, we are outside the range. There is no more warranty now. So the Department of Infrastructure applied for federal funding for $14 million over a five-year period. And with that, you know, you look at -- and if the Member from the Nunakput was here he would agree with me -- in terms of the climate change impacts are the major issue on the road that have come just in the last year since the road has been opened. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member.

Yeah, no, thanks for that. I had the opportunity to try to drive up the Inuvik to Tuk highway this spring after it opened and we could only get to about Kilometer 22 before the mud was up to about the hubcaps on the truck, so the Speaker and I had to turn around.

I guess my last observation is that in this part of the budget, we're spending about ten times as much as we are on housing, and I just don't think we have our priorities in the right place, Madam Chair. I said that yesterday and I'm going to continue that theme probably on in to the next item for this department, that we just don't have our priorities in the right place when it comes to this capital budget. And I just leave it at that for now. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Did you want to respond, Minister. No? Okay. Any other further questions. Oh, Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I do probably answer some questions. It was my understanding that the fill was cut by the previous Assembly on the ITH and that is part of the reasons why so when we modify the design the engineers put through, we can't ask them to then be held accountable for our decisions.

My question was around the ITH as well so I am glad to hear that there has been some repairs made, or money being -- and I just wanted to clarify that the $14 million has already been received or we've just applied on it right now. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we are -- we have applied for it. We haven't been -- yeah, it's in the process but that was our plan. Like, we're going to need that much over that amount of time so it is something that is important to the department and, you know, so we did apply. We're not approved. So I appreciate the Member's support to looking at Inuvik-Tuk Highway to respect some of the work that we need to get done on that road. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that. I do wish the department luck in getting that money.

Is some of this work then that was -- that the Minister described, the 26-kilometer stretch, is that the area in which there has been noted ponded water along the ITH for the last while. I believe we went on a tour there and saw standing water and I just want to know if those issues are being addressed as they do affect the permafrost in the area. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And Madam Chair, I have been on that road plenty of times, I just can't recall what kilometer but I'm going to ask my deputy minister Steve Loutitt if he knows the location on where the Member's talking about. Thank you.

Thank you. Deputy Minister Loutitt.

Thank you. Member.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, really glad to hear that and hear that the department is looking at the future of the Inuvik to Tuk Highway and hope that will be some potential for work to be looked at while the fibre optic line is being installed along that highway. For example, if it is being buried, what is being done to ensure that the integrity of the road is not being compromised in that. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, that is definitely something that we could look at and keep that in mind as we look at the fibre line going in on the highway and ensure that we have discussions with the appropriate department to ensure road safety. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm looking and noting that there is funding in here for Highway 8 reconstruction which is the Dempster Highway, I believe. Again, a very -- I don't want to say treacherous but definitely one of our problem stretches of highway. Beautiful area, lots of opportunities for tourism and as well an integral transportation route for the Chair's own area.

So my questions are what is that work necessarily entailing and is this just sort of keeping up with the status quo or are we actually doing any sort of rebuilding or significant work on the Dempster this year. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm really happy to hear that the Member's very interested in Dempster Highway as the Chair and I are also very interested in the Dempster Highway.

In terms of getting to the question, we have about $22.5 million that will be invested in reconstruction, rehabilitation of Highway 8 from 2019 to 2023-2024. And this includes widening, rehab, installation of corrugated steel pipe culverts, gravel resurfacing, production and stockpile of crush aggregate material, which is used in future improvements. In other words, Madam Chair, we spend about $4.5 million each year. Thank you.

Thank you. Member.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm really pleased and congratulations to the department for the funding on the Frank Channel Bridge, not that I think the Government of Canada could have left us any further in the lurch as it was going to be up in its useful life within the next year.

Can the Minister speak to how much money -- I know maybe not specifics but sort of what level of effort will be made on the Frank Channel bridge in the first year of the project. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the replacement of this bridge is very critical to the transportation, especially people coming in and out of Yellowknife.

The GNWT has secured about $37.5 million under the Transport Canada's National Trade Corridors Fund. So, you know, right now we need to replace the bridge. I mean, we've got reduced speed limit across the bridge and I just really encourage people to continue to follow that -- the kilometer that we've identified when crossing the bridge.

Some of the work that's planned for 2022-2023 is contractor mobilization, site preparation, road realignment, embankment, construction. Also some granular material production, procurement of steel piping, steel fabrication. So Madam Chair, there is work that's being done as well. Also we have an agreement with the Tlicho, you know, going forward in these projects. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. That's actually quite a bit to get going and get started on so I'm really happy to hear it's not going to be sort of sitting in studies and delayed for a while like some of our other projects end up being so hopefully we won't see the carryovers that everybody gets super excited about.

I guess I just wanted to ask a little bit about that relationship with the Tlicho. While I'm all in support of that happening, I can't imagine that the entire work package would be going under that infrastructure agreement. Is there a potential or will there be packages issued out for open tender. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, that's a really good question. I want to ensure that, you know, we're consistent in some of our messaging but we are working with Tlicho, and I'm just going to ask David -- Mr. Moore to speak a little further in terms of what's our partnership like because he's on the ground ensuring that we work with this agreement. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Moore.

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I do appreciate that. I just think it is a large amount of money and there is perhaps enough for it to go around for everyone and while I totally am not saying anything about not giving it to Tlicho contractors, I just feel that, you know, we want to make sure that if there are packages that are not going to be done under that agreement that then there is a real northern focus on them so that open procurement doesn't end up with money going to the South. That's more of a comment. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Any further questions on asset management? Member for Monfwi.

Planning studies, can they explain that a bit? I don't know what that planning study is because I'm just wondering because I can't find the cell phone services, previous MLA, he mentioned it in last sessions, and I don't see it in the budget here so I'm just wondering if it's still in the planning stage or is that planning study, is that for like cell phone services that you guys are still trying to determine.

Thank you. Minister would you clarify what that section is.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the planning stage is not in relation to that. I think it's more along the lines for Department of Finance for the cell coverage. We don't really look after that through Infrastructure. Thank you.

Okay. Member for Monfwi, did you have any further questions?

I just wanted to know where those cell phone services was in the budget somewhere but it's not in there, it's not identified so.

Yeah, thank you. Any further questions. Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to make a clarification, because it's very troubling that, you know, you go to asset management and most of it says "regional" "territorial." It doesn't give the community, it doesn't, you know -- it's very misleading, and so you look at this and you wonder, well I wonder if they're going to fix some of the problems that we had last year in -- and I don't see anything for Highway No. 5 and we had a lot of problems last spring and we had a lot of rain and a lot of, you know, water and some washouts on that road and I don't see anything in this asset management that is addressing that even though we did have the problem.

And I also don't see anything to -- because I know some of the equipment at that -- at Infrastructure, trucks, and some of those other things that I've mentioned before, are very old. It seems like everything new goes to Hay River, and I'm just wondering about that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to clarify Highway No. 5, we don't -- it's not in the capital budget because most of it is covered with our partnership with the Wood Buffalo Park. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Madam Chair, the parts where we were having problems with last spring and in the fall were not in Wood Buffalo National Park. It was more closer to the community and I remember there was washouts, and there was many things were wrong. Were done wrong. Because I know I was involved in that whole issue with the canal, the Kaiser Canal and there's water everywhere and with washouts, and that's not part of Wood Buffalo National Park. I know that area very well. I lived there all my life and I know the agreement with Wood Buffalo National Park. That's a separate agreement. I understand it. But that's not addressed in this.

And I also mentioned -- I sent an email last year and said, you know, the equipment at the yard of Infrastructure that looks after the highways, which is a division of -- most of our stuff went to Hay River, don't ask me why, but it did, and we're left kind of the crumbs and aging trucks and equipment. And I want to know when that will be addressed. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, you know, I understand the Member's concerned about some of the flooding. You know, we did spend a lot of money on operation and maintenance in the past year, which is not normal, mostly because of perhaps the funding.

The -- I'm just looking at my -- so you look at some of the small -- no, it's not on here. I'm sorry, Madam Chair. If I can have Steve or Mr. Moore to speak to it.

Mr. Moore.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

So we're dealing with this asset management in this budget. So am I going to be waiting for next year's budget before I get an answer on how we're going to address some of the issues that I just brought up, because it's not a new issue. I've sent emails and I've made it very clear that some of these things have got to be addressed.