This is page numbers 3131 - 3164 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Justice.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I have the updated numbers somewhere here. I can look them up.

  • So at NSCC, we have a capacity of 148, and we have 55 inmates;
  • SMCC, capacity of 36, and we have six inmates;
  • Fort Smith Correctional Centre, female, our capacity is 23 and we have four inmates; and,
  • The male facility in Fort Smith, with a capacity of 21, we have eight.

For a total of 73. And at the youth facility, we have a capacity for 25, and we have one. So we have 74 inmates, a total capacity of 253. So very, very low capacity, which I would argue is a good thing. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I think we are all happy to see that both crime rates and incarceration have been going down in a rather predictable rate, which is why we have such low capacity in our prisons. But I guess at one point, I think we have to re-evaluate, you know, running a bunch of facilities with very low numbers, and even whether it's beneficial to inmates to have four, you know, members in a 23-person facility, whether it's better to have larger populations where there's a economy of scale for delivering programming -- programs. Is the department doing that work, to re-evaluate whether we need all of this correctional space? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Justice.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. So we have the female correctional facility, and we can't combine that with the male facility. We have the youth facility, and we can't combine that with the adult facility. At SMCC, we have begun the therapeutic model which is a different type of approach to corrections, and so that is unique. And then we have the two other male facilities, NSCC and the Fort Smith Correctional Centre. Perhaps I can pass it to the deputy minister, firstly, just to talk about that a little more. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister Doolittle.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Doolittle

Thank you, Madam Chair. And, yes, the department is watching this. Certainly since COVID started early 2020, our numbers began to decrease and, as the Minister mentioned earlier, they have stayed quite low and the department is tracking this but I would suggest that not enough time has passed to analyze this in detail and provide any clear answers. We are reviewing this and, again, trying to manage our facilities in the most efficient way. We need to manage our lows as our highs. It would be unfortunate to close something and then find out, you know, in the near future that we do need these facilities. But it is something on the department's radar.

We did manage to close a pod at NSCC temporarily earlier this year, and there may be some savings, but, again, these are things that are very hard to consider with the infrastructure and the other resources that are used. But there have been some cleaning done, some maintenance issues have been addressed as well, but we do need the budget to do any sort of larger overhauls. But it is something the department is looking at. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. When North Slave Correctional was built, I believe they call it a smudging room, but it was a room with kind of a healing circle in it, and then the Office of the Fire Marshal said that despite the architects and engineers signing off, that we were not allowed to use it. And I believe there was some capital money spent to perhaps get it open again. Can I just have an update on that? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Justice.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. That work has been done, and I believe the final inspection is on December 3rd. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I am very happy that the Member for Yellowknife North started off with the smudge room question because that takes it off my list.

I'm going to start with the three transfer van replacements for NSCC. I'm just wondering why there is a need for three 15-passenger vans when there are 55 inmates at the facility. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Justice.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will point out that we are replacing a significant amount of the fleet of the Department of Justice in this budget. We actually used the vehicles quite a bit longer than I think is suggested by the Department of Infrastructure. But that is because we are aware of the financial situation. I can go to Mr. Bankcroft for some details on why we're replacing three. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Bankcroft.

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Bancroft

Thank you, Madam Chair. We'll be replacing three transfer vans from North Slave Correctional Centre. The oldest of those units is actually from 1999. And the second oldest was from 2008. And the third oldest is from 2011.

Although our populations may be low, these transfer vans are required to meet a multitude of mandated operations such as court appearances and offender transports. And the need for three of them is because we have such a large territory, and to be able to transfer inmates from the North Slave region to the South Slave region, we always need to be able to respond to the needs of the courts and having offenders appear before them. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I guess I'm wondering if this is a straight transfer to transfer or replacement, sorry, to replacement of a 15-passenger van or if looking at the reduced number of inmates because of the new -- or the new act, if there is a need for less vehicle and then a potential savings down the road, or if it is an actual need for that quantity of vehicle. If the Minister can speak to that, please.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for -- or sorry -- Minister of Justice.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. Perhaps I can pass that on to the deputy minister. First, I just want to comment that I'm aware that we have lower numbers right now and I've looked into what we can -- what sort of savings we can expect, if any, understanding that there's often a lot of fixed costs and you don't save a lot if the numbers fluctuate a little bit. But I -- this is an area where perhaps we will have some savings in the future. But as it stands, these vans presently do need to be replaced. But I can ask the deputy minister for some more information. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy Minister Doolittle.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Doolittle

Thank you, Madam Chair. And while the trends are low right now with passengers, we can't predict what that will be and we haven't had enough time to analyze that so what was deemed necessary was the replacement of these three vehicles with that capacity count. So that is what the department is doing. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.