Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Debates of Nov. 30th, 2021
This is page numbers 3165 - 3220 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was indigenous.
Topics
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I think Mr. Courtoreille's going to be faster at doing the math than me in terms of taking our $1.8 billion and then reducing from what the actuals are here. So I'll turn it to him, please.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Courtoreille
Thank you, Madam Chair. To the Member's questions, this doesn't impact the approved borrowing plan for the 2021-2022 fiscal year. And that borrowing plan is estimated at just under $1.5 billion relative to the $1.8 billion limit that is imposed by the federal government. Thank you, ma'am.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. That is the fact that I needed to click here. We are adjusting what was done in 2021, we have already approved the main estimates which get us to $1.5 billion. That's adding another $300 million, leaving us about $300 million in our debt cap. I believe I just stated that correctly.
Can I just get an update from the Minister of Finance? I believe during her budget address, there was talk about unsustainability and that current projections project us hitting our debt cap of $1.8 billion just at the end of this Assembly. Is that still the case? Does this change any of the projections, or has any changes to the projections occurred? Thank you.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the adjustments and forecasting is continually being updated. So if, in fact, there's an increase in revenues again, then that certainly can start to impact our overall situation in terms of what would be required to undertake debt, particularly debt -- particularly, again, if our revenues continue to be lower and expenses continue to be higher. So, you know, the overall situation that the territory is facing hasn't drastically changed since, I think, the fall update that would have been provided, and certainly since the time of budget dialogs, it would have been done this summer.
Right now if there isn't a significant alteration in the overall fiscal situation, I believe we are still, you know, looking at being at or near the borrowing limit by the end of this Assembly or certainly into that first year of the next Assembly.
So, again, that's not changed, but things do change fairly quickly, particularly with COVID, and depending on the extent and the speed of an economic recovery. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Thanks, Madam Chair. So this $10 million we're being asked to approve for the previous fiscal year, is there any additional borrowing or debt costs associated with this? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3210
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'll perhaps check in with the deputy minister in a moment. But just -- just briefly, this isn't -- it wasn't an unanticipated amount. What was unanticipated was the timing of it. So -- and largely this is owing to the pace at which the Tlicho All-Season Road was deemed to completion and the timing of when the associated debt to that project would have to come on the books.
So I do want to be clear that it wasn't something unexpected or unanticipated or unplanned for; it was only the timing of it. Seeing on when the timing came through, that is what has brought us back to the Assembly here because of course we approve the borrowing plan in every set of mains. And we approve, you know, not only the total borrowing which also hasn't as I think we've established now have been impacted, but we actually do approve specifically the short term amount and the long term- amount. The long-term amount is what we went over on.
Madam Chair, if I could turn to Mr. MacKay to the deputy minister and just to confirm if in fact there's some other or additional interest costs that I've not aptly explained. Thank you.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Mackay
Thank you, Madam Chair. So just to clarify, the short term and long term debt limits were approved by the legislature, and the long term debt limit was approved at $617 million as it said in there. And as the Minister said, the $10 million we need to increase that limit was because of the way the TASR project rolled out. So there was an actual liability that we needed to be made at the end of the year.
Now that $10 million will go into our long-term debts. So -- and I'll ask Mr. Courtoreille to give a little more detail on that, but it will add to our long-term debt and be rolled in with our other debt carrying costs. So I'll just turn it over to Mr. Courtoreille to explain that a little further. Thank you.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
The Chair Lesa Semmler
Thank you, Deputy Minister. I think I'm going to pass it back to Member for Frame Lake.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
My time is being gobbled up. I don't want to go to a third person to ask what I thought was a relatively simple question. So I'm going to move on.
So it sounds like the completion of the Tlicho All-Season Road was sped up, that we had to start to incur the debt sooner than we had planned for. Is that the case, and what was the original completion date then? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the debt in question was expected to have come in under this current fiscal year and not last fiscal year, and that's what resulted in this. Thank you.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Thanks, Madam Chair. What are the annual service payments then going to be for the Tlicho All-Season Road, and is part of this over expenditure where we're starting to get into these annual service payments? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have the number on the service payments in front of me, but let me see, Mr. Courtoreille may have that. And Madam Chair, in my haste, I realize I didn't actually fully explain the last answer.
The change, indeed, was that the costs incurred here that we're dealing with had been forecasted, of course, to be over in this year. So I hope that part is clear. And as for service payments, let me go to Mr. Courtoreille, please.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211
Courtoreille
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have the exact service payment with me, but I can tell you that it's comprised of two components. One is to repay the P3 debt associated with this project, and then the other component of that payment is for the operation and maintenance of the road. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 156-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 438-19(2) Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 3211