This is page numbers 3221 - 3266 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was units.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Diane Archie, Hon. Frederick Blake Jr., Mr. Bonnetrouge, Hon. Paulie Chinna, Ms. Cleveland, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Hon. Julie Green, Mr. Jacobson, Mr. Johnson, Ms. Martselos, Ms. Nokleby, Mr. O'Reilly, Ms. Semmler, Hon. R.J. Simpson, Mr. Rocky Simpson, Hon. Shane Thompson, Hon. Caroline Wawzonek. Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

---Prayer

Prayer
Prayer

Page 3221

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I would like to provide an update on the status of the flood recovery work being undertaken by the Government of the Northwest Territories. As soon as the floodwater retreated last spring, community government leadership, residents, and our government got together to work, helping communities recover from the worst flood many of us have seen in our lifetime.

There are many people involved in this effort. I want to recognize the tireless efforts of the community government leadership in the immediately flood aftermath and over the past several months. Some of the leadership has changed since the flood occurred but as the waters rose, Chief Stanley Sanguez, Mayor Sean Whelly, Mayor Andrew Charlie, and Chief Daniel Masuzumi showed tremendous leadership, evacuating residents safely and taking steps to reduce the potential flood damage where possible, Mayor Kandis Jameson and Chief April Martel, among many others, executed their emergency plans flawlessly and were ready for the worst, even if it never came. Residents and leaders in Fort Smith, Fort Providence, and Inuvik are to be commended for taking such excellent care of evacuees from flooded communities.

Mr. Speaker, our government knew we needed extraordinary measures to meet the challenges of these extraordinary floods.

We are doing home repairs on primary residences for those who have asked us to do this work. We've arranged for replacement homes for those destroyed by the flood so individuals and families do not need to start from scratch. We are providing disaster assistance to small businesses and community governments given the disruption and impact to their operations. We are providing disaster assistance payment to those residents who lost some or all of the contents of their homes.

Mr. Speaker, in Fort Simpson, Fort Good Hope, and Jean Marie River, we are on track to get repairs done by the end of the year, and replacement homes are scheduled to arrive between January and March in the new year.

I want to acknowledge the support and assistance provided by the contractors who have worked with the GNWT and with residents throughout the recovery process, especially ARCAN Construction, who provided critical support in completing this recovery work. I would also like to recognize Ne'rahten Development Ltd. for their work on the reconstruction efforts in Fort Good Hope.

We all hoped that the recovery could be done sooner, however, given the extraordinary flooding that occurred, recovering from this disaster was never going to be easy. Also, any construction project brings challenges with that and it needs to be managed and often this means shifting timelines.

To residents who have still not returned to their homes or who may still be facing challenges that have come as a result of the flood damage, I want to thank you for your patience as we continue our work to recover fully from last spring's flood.

The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is conducting a thorough review of our response to this emergency and we will be using these lessons learned to ensure that we are prepared for the spring of 2022.

Mr. Speaker, I want to end on a personal note. I saw the impact of the flood on communities firsthand. Living in one of the flooded impacted communities, I was able to meet with residents, hear their stories, and try to help them in their time of need. I would like to thank the Minister Archie and Minister Chinna for their visit -- visiting some of the impacted communities during the flood. I would also like to thank the Premier for her constant support in this difficult time.

The work being done to recover from the flood is about the people and making sure they recover from the disaster. Our government has based our approach on that principle. We will continue to work on their behalf as we complete the recovery work in affected communities. Together, with the dedication of community government leadership, we will recover and rebuild together. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to update Members on the temporary shutdown of labor and delivery services at Stanton Territorial Hospital. This closure requires the Northwest Territories Health and Social Services Authority to send pregnant people to Edmonton to give birth. I know that this has placed a significant burden on NWT families at what should be a time of joy and celebration. I also recognize that this decision is even more difficult, coming as it does, so close to the holiday season.

This difficult decision was made to ensure the safety of individuals and their newborn babies while we experience an acute staffing shortage. By transferring care to Alberta, we can ensure our territorial hospital maintains capacity to deal with any urgent situations during pregnancy and ensure patient safety.

The priority of NTHSSA, Mr. Speaker, is the patients whose plans for giving birth here in Yellowknife have been disrupted by the temporary closure of those labor and delivery services at Stanton. As soon as hospital leadership confirmed that they were not going to be able to maintain this service, staff began to contact affected patients directly to discuss next steps.

Contact is being made by a team of people who were specifically tasked with discussing the individual circumstances of each patient and their families so together they can come up with a plan that meets the family's needs as much as possible.

Staff will continue to follow up with patients and families to ensure individuals have the information and understand the supports they may require.

The NTHSSA is also working to put together patient resources that will prepare individuals for their trip and the transition of care. Clinical resources in Edmonton are closely collaborating with care teams in the NWT to ensure ample resources and supports for patients are ready, including pre- and postnatal care and additional birthing supports.

To date, the NTHSSA medical travel program has worked with 71 clients to determine benefits and eligibility. Of these, 13 families are above the high-income threshold without employer or other benefits, who would be required to pay the co-pay. That said, there is a process to waive this fee if families can demonstrate it is a financial hardship.

Thirty-one families will be covered by employer programs and 26 qualify for non-insured health benefits and will receive additional support through that program. And then finally, seven are considered low-income and they will not be required to pay the co-pay and can have their expenses advanced to reduce any potential financial outlay.

The key piece here, Mr. Speaker, is that most individuals will have access to programs and resources outside the medical travel program. As a result of this initial assessment, NTHSSA is now able to focus on adding support and assisting individuals based on their specific needs.

While staff are making every effort to support patients who are now being asked to give birth in Edmonton, Mr. Speaker, I do want to acknowledge that this is a significant inconvenience for all patients who were expecting to give birth in Yellowknife. Even with support and best efforts from NTHSSA, I know that these are not the circumstances that families wanted, and I am sorry that we are not able to live up to their expectations.

Mr. Speaker, I want to reassure Members that NTHSSA has taken reasonable steps to prevent this temporary shutdown and if there had been any easy solutions, they would have been gladly implemented. NTHSSA has been making every effort to recruit staff in the face of a national nursing shortage that the pandemic has only made worse.

Advertising and active promotion in a variety of locations, including national nursing recruitment sites, has netted only seven applications and one hire since June. An external staffing agency, brought on in October to provide additional assistance, has only managed to identify three additional nurses with varying start dates and contracts still being confirmed. NTHSSA also issued a request for assistance from other provinces and territories but so far have been unable to generate additional staffing from this source, as these staff are in high demand in their home provinces.

NTHSSA is also making efforts to staff from within through redeployment, but different roles require different training and the pool of staff available is not large. I thank the staff in the obstetrics unit who stepped up in response to a call to pick up shifts yet NTHSSA was not able to cover more than one-quarter of all shifts in December, which simply was not enough to support the normal labor and delivery service.

While NTHSSA leadership will continue their efforts to fill immediate vacancies, Mr. Speaker, we obviously need a longer-term plan for addressing staffing needs.

Staff at the authority and the department are currently working on a Health and Social Services human resource plan that will include several key pieces to improve their ability to recruit staff. They are also surveying nursing staff directly to make sure plans are informed by an accurate understanding of challenges and concerns.

Finally, because one way to increase the labor supply is to grow the pool of trained people, there are specialized nursing certification training programs to help develop staff where the labor market is not meeting the need. This program will be piloted in the obstetrics unit at Stanton.

I know that challenges in hiring and adding capacity to the workforce are inextricably tied to the challenges of retention. Keeping the great staff we have is more important than being able to attract new talent.

Mr. Speaker, NTHSSA is taking steps to address the more persistent issues that have contributed to this immediate challenge. I recognize that morale issues have been building at Stanton, and they need to be addressed. A near strike, a facility move followed by a challenging start-up, and a global pandemic have all contributed to significant change and pressure on staff and leadership at the hospital.

As Minister, I know we need to improve and we need to do so quickly. I have met with staff from the obstetrics unit at Stanton and representatives from the Union of Northern Workers as well as leadership at Stanton, at the health authority, and in the department. We are all on the same page; we need to address this.

Stanton leadership has created a team, including clinical leads and management, to look at the current operational issues in detail and find the quickest path to service resumption with a focus on longer-term sustainability of services.

Stanton leadership is also looking closely at concerns over leave, workload, and compensation that have recently been highlighted as factors contributing to staff morale. The department and the authority are initiating a working group to look at staffing levels, service types, and volumes in the obstetrics unit to determine what appropriate staffing looks like and will look at what interim additional measures may be put in place until this review is complete. The department will also be working directly with the Department of Finance to discuss what options are available to ensure we remain competitive when it comes to attracting staff nationally and retaining the excellent staff we have.

Stanton's chief operating officer has already engaged with staff as part of a review of leave policies and processes that is expected to be complete by January. NTHSSA will also broaden opportunities for staff to meet directly with leadership to put their concerns on the table and help identify solutions. Culture change, Mr. Speaker, takes time but all parties are committed to doing it and doing it right.

Mr. Speaker, these are difficult times for the patients who are now being asked to deliver their babies in Edmonton and for the staff in the obstetrics unit. I want to assure Members that I, the authority, and the department are all committed to moving quickly to address the underlying issues that have led to this situation and we will continue to update you on our progress. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. Member for Deh Cho.

Chronic Diseases in Small Communities
Members' Statements

Page 3223

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my topic is chronic diseases in the small communities. Mr. Speaker, Wikipedia describes "chronic diseases" as a human health condition or disease that is persistent or otherwise long-lasting in its effects or a disease that comes with time. The term "chronic" is often used when a disease lasts for more than three months. Common chronic diseases include arthritis, asthma, cancer, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, which is lung disease, and hypertension, which is high blood pressure, and diabetes to name a few. Diabetes was once described as terminal but is now described as chronic due to the availability of insulin and medication to manage the condition.

"Terminal" is described as a lifelong illness that results in death.

Mr. Speaker, Health and Social Services provided information on diabetes in the Northwest Territories and reports in 2017-2018, 5.9 percent of people 12 and older had diabetes, slightly lower than the Canadian average of 7.2 percent. This information is about four years old and does not appear that the Department of Health and Social Services tracks diabetes statistics more frequently therefore the current rate of diabetes in the NWT is not known.

Mr. Speaker, the report also states the NWT has a high rate of ambulatory care, sensitive conditions. That is hospitalizations for some chronic conditions that could have likely been prevented through better chronic disease management and better access to primary health care. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Health Minister at the appropriate time. Mahsi.

Chronic Diseases in Small Communities
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for De Cho. Member statements. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to talk about the use of locum tenens in our health care system. Mr. Speaker, is important that the delivery of health care in the NWT is timely. We must ensure that all communities are provided service, whether they are staffed by physicians, nurse practitioners, nurses, or other health care professionals. Locums are, and are becoming more, important in the way we deliver health care in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, it was been a number of years since we had a full-time position in Hay River, or at least one we could call a "family physician.” We have had permanent physicians come and stay for a short period, only to leave, thus entrusting locums to fill that gap. I am not saying this is a bad thing because many of the attending locums are specialists that provide an added benefit to community health care services.

Mr. Speaker, if our health care system expects to retain permanent health care professionals, we must provide them with the support from locums in order to allow them time off to enjoy life as well. From statistics I have reviewed, the burnout rate among physicians is placed at upwards of 40 percent; and, with the added burden of the ongoing pandemic, I expect that number has increased. We have to remember that the pandemic lockdowns, coupled with additional workload of acute care units and deferral of surgeries, have healthcare workers re-evaluating what is important, and that is family.

Mr. Speaker, the pandemic has shown the fragility of our health care system, the importance of health care professionals, and the fact that we need to do more to support those on the frontline.

Mr. Speaker, we see large health care employee vacancy numbers, not only in the NWT by throughout Canada. If we expect to retain professional care and health care workers then our current retention approach must be revisited, it must be different, and must come with resolve.

Mr. Speaker, any change must be done in collaboration with our health care professionals. We need immediate solutions to address how to efficiently provide focused patient care for all residents in the NWT. This may include better communication, reducing health care burnout, use of virtual care, functioning facilities and equipment, increased compensation for health care staff, and the effective use of locums who are now engrained in all facets of our health care delivery system. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister of Health at the appropriate time. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Members' statements. Member for Nunakput.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today Mr. Speaker, I'd like to acknowledge and thank all the frontline health care workers in Tuktoyaktuk and my leadership and all Nunakput riding.

Mr. Speaker, 10 percent of my community in Tuktoyaktuk had an outbreak and that was a really scary situation. It's still 18 positives that we're still working towards getting through that 10-day isolation and making sure they're testing negative but we're very thankful to our staff for all the hard work that they do, August Stuckey and the health centre crew, thank you so much. And for all the tireless work you've been doing for the last three weeks to a month. Also to the SAO and the hamlet staff for working so hard and diligently to make sure everything's been going right. And my mayor Erwin Elias, thank you for doing what you do and the good job that you're doing.

Mr. Speaker, November 26th, 2021 our health organization designated a new variant COVID-19. It's a concern. The variant is called Omicron. It appeared in Canada. I was watching the news the other day, at six in the morning, and then -- it was in Ottawa. 4 o'clock in the afternoon, it was in Edmonton. So that's how fast it's travelling, Mr. Speaker, and we're worried. There's a lot of unknowns at this point surrounding the variant, and we don't know how quickly it will spread and the vaccines help. I am concerned with my communities.

My leadership called; I talked to my leadership Josh Oliktoak. I had a text message from him saying, Anybody travelling from Yellowknife airport should be getting a clean bill of COVID test before they jump on the plane heading into Ulu. So that has to be looked at, Mr. Speaker. I don't think it's being done here, or passengers have to go and get cleared to travel because getting it into Ulukhaktok, some of my Elders are not vaccinated and it's a really scary situation that they went through already. And, you know, there's so many challenges in our communities. Like, for Tuk we had to establish a managing and isolation centre, finding enough homes and places to isolate families. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Ensuring residents have food and they don't have to leave their homes. Administrating the COVID testing and tracing is fast enough to limit the spread, and I'd like to thank them for doing that job so diligently, but we have to work on it.

Mr. Speaker, I'm really concerned on whether the next variant of COVID is going to hit our communities and the secretariat was created to respond to COVID, to create a process that will keep our communities safe. I'm concerned that the response to keep communities safe may be not improving and quick enough to address the challenges for our community and giving the SAOs and the hamlet help. Mr. Speaker, I'll have a few questions for the Premier as the head of COVID Secretariat later this afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Members' statements. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the implementation of the Living Well Together training for all the government of the Northwest Territories staff, it was disturbing for me to hear on the different occasions that some members of the public service are not completing this training. The Living Well Together recognizes that the NWT was first Indigenous land filled with Indigenous people. It recognizes the impact of colonization had on Indigenous people. It explains through firsthand stories how this trauma continues today in the lives of Indigenous residents.

Living Well Together was intended to provide all public servants with Indigenous cultural awareness and sensitivity training to assist them in their jobs.

Mr. Speaker, I think people throughout Canada, even within the NWT, do not recognize the impact of our collective history built on racism, white privilege, removing Indigenous people from their land, and forcing children out of their culture. Many people don't recognize -- don't truly recognize how Canada's colonial history affects us all today.

Mr. Speaker, many of our Indigenous people struggle with addictions, mental health, high rates of family violence; our children make up most all of the children in care; and the majority of the inmates of the population in our correction facilities. The homeless and underhoused people in the NWT are made up of many residential school survivors or their children.

Mr. Speaker, this is a result of the systemic racism built in governments that has continued since first contact.

Mr. Speaker, this training is extremely important for all public servants in the GNWT to complete, especially those people who deal directly with the public.

Mr. Speaker, we know that non-Indigenous people make up nearly 60 percent of the entire GNWT public service. It is very concerning to me that non-Indigenous public servants, especially those on the frontlines, dealing with directly, with our Elders, our new mothers, our people struggling with addictions, are not properly trained in cultural awareness, or refuse to do so.

I will have questions for the Minister of Finance later today. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Members' statements. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, recently Health Canada limited access for counseling services for residential school survivors in the NWT and Nunavut. Funding for travelling clinics has been cut and Health Canada counselors that normally travel to the communities, must now take a four to six-week break before they are permitted to see clients in person again. This means that many in-person appointments could take place as much as eight weeks apart.

One of the key aspects of trauma counseling is creating a space in which survivors feel safe enough to share. The creation of that space relies heavily on the trust established with their counselor; trust that may take years to create. Any mental health worker knows that face-to-face sessions are vastly preferred over virtual, as they are trained to look for physical signs of mental health distress, abuse, neglect, or cognitive difficulties. This is especially crucial for children who may not have the language to express their thoughts and feelings. Despite this, Health Canada has instructed counselors to use virtual technology over travel in order to save money.

Mr. Speaker we all know what telephone and internet services are like in the North. It is inadequate and costly and not all residents have access. Add in the disconnect that not being in the same room causes, and one doesn't have to be a mental health expert to see this doesn't work.

The NWT has some of the highest rates of gender-based violence in Canada; only made worse by the pandemic. When I asked the Health Minister about this federal spending cut, she said she'd add it to her agenda when she has "the opportunity to meet with the new federal Minister."

Mr. Speaker, that's not good enough. Why would the Minister not immediately advocate on behalf of our residents? Why would she not inform them that this is not acceptable, particularly during the pandemic? When asked, the Minister points us to GNWT supports saying same day appointments are available. Yes, for one day, then you will be put on a list for a permanent counselor, often waiting for months, as what happened when my father passed away. Otherwise we're pointed to apps and online tools, placing the onus on residents to "heal themselves", something that is clearly not working. Not everyone can "go on the land", Mr. Speaker, nor does everyone have a smartphone or a computer.

This Cabinet loves to deflect responsibility to Canada whenever it suits them; however, I think they fail to realize at times that they are our voices in Ottawa and it is up to them to ensure that we are being heard. This involves being proactive, being vocal, being loud. Not waiting until it's convenient for the bureaucrats in Ottawa to find time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Members' statements. Member for Thebacha.

Access to Aftercare Services
Members' Statements

Page 3226

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm going to speak again today about the need for more access to aftercare services for people in recovery and for those who are addicted to drugs and alcohol.

Mr. Speaker, assessing mental health and addiction issues in the NWT can be tedious and an intimidating experience for our residents. That was true before the pandemic hit, and it's even harder now for the people to access these vital supports during these uncertain times amidst this pandemic.

As I said in my Member's statement last week, it has been reported and researched by many entities, mental health and addiction services during this pandemic have become harder to access and its service availability has been increasingly limited.

Mr. Speaker, with this in mind, it is very welcoming news to hear from our Health Minister that a new wellness recovery centre will be built in Yellowknife by 2024. This is very good news for the people of the NWT and certainly a step in the right direction for the territory, and I support it.

Mr. Speaker, to add to this conversation and to be build upon this good work, I'd like to suggest that our government considers expanding its reach for aftercare and recovery centres in the NWT since we now know that our recovery centre will be built in the central hub of the capital. I think we need to consider building in the future another recovery centre in a different community and region of the NWT.

That said, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to suggest that Fort Smith and the South Slave region be considered as a site for a future recovery centre aftercare facility for the NWT. I think having an aftercare facility in a non-industrialized location and away from the enabling spaces of people's addictions is a good thing. It can be a good thing to remove someone, at least temporarily, from their spaces of active addiction in order to help them break the cycle of their addiction. However, equally vital to breaking the cycles of addiction is a need to provide aftercare and proper follow up for those in recovery.

I will have questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Access to Aftercare Services
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife North.

Healthcare Wait Times
Members' Statements

Page 3226

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the key indicators for evaluating how a health system works is wait times. And right now, you can go to every other jurisdiction -- or every province in Canada and look up their wait times. And I'd encourage people to do this. If you go to the BC one, it's actually quite an amazing database. You can see every single surgeon and how many procedures they currently have waiting, at which hospitals, at which region. You can see the number of weeks for every single procedure that could be scheduled in the health care system in live reported data, Mr. Speaker. And multiple organizations, including Health Canada take this data from across the country, and they use it to help inform how we need to fund health care. Yet when you go to the Northwest Territories, none of this data is readily available, Mr. Speaker. It is few and far between. And often when it is published, it's published in the amount of people waiting for a procedure, which is not a helpful statistic. If 50 people need a knee replacement, I don't know how long that takes, I have to find a knee surgeon to tell me how long it takes to actually get through 50 people.

Mr. Speaker, I would like us to have this data, and I would like to be giving a statement here on the facts and where we need to improve and put resources. But I don't have that data. So I'm going to share some anecdotal evidence I have on this.

One of my constituents just recently got a knee replacement. It was five years from the time she was told she needs a knee replacement. She's now on the schedule for the next knee replacement and has already, years in advance, booked the after-physiotherapy for that knee replacement knowing the waitlist is so long, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I previously asked in this House about the wait times to get FASD. I know many people who have been waiting for an FASD diagnosis for years, Mr. Speaker - a diagnosis that is essential to accessing services that is relevant to getting a person to cope with that disorder, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the department is doing some work but I think we really need to prioritize this. I know we're getting a new electronic medical records system, and I would like to thank the department for the work they did during booking COVID vaccines. I've never seen a department get ahold of software so quickly. But it was great. It allowed you to schedule your appointments. It sent you reminders. It allowed you to cancel them easily. I would ask that the department look at doing something similar for all procedures and make sure we are tracking this key essential data. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Healthcare Wait Times
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Members' statements. Member for Monfwi.

Affordable Housing
Members' Statements

Page 3227

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Today I am going to be talking about housing, again. I know Ms. Chinna is a good person and it's the portfolio I'm speaking to, so.

Okay, Mr. Speaker, the Northwest Territories is facing a housing crisis because there is a serious lack of affordable housing in this territory. Current Northwest Territories Housing Corporation strategy to provide housing for NWT residents is not meeting the unique needs of our people and communities. For example, many people in the North are employed in the diamond mines or work seasonally in other resource industry jobs. These jobs are really important for our community members because there are so few jobs and so few high-paying jobs in the communities.

In these jobs, our people can make good income for themselves and their families but then their rents are increased dramatically to very high excessive monthly amounts.

Mr. Speaker, we are penalizing our own people for working. In economic, people are discouraged to seek higher paying work. How is this fair to our people who want to do well for themselves and their families? This is not a new issue. We have been discussing for decades how the housing rate structure does not work and operates for our own people to work. On the other hand, many of our community members are considered low-income and do not qualify for the government assistance programs toward homeownership.

The applications that currently exist are overly complicated, have too many financial barriers, and simply take too long to approve. Our people are trapped without clear or easy pathway towards affordable housing. We simply do not have enough housing for private ownership, for low-income families, and for our Elders. We are preventing our own people from having homes. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister responsible for the Housing. Thank you.

Affordable Housing
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake.

Chronic Diseases in Seniors
Members' Statements

Page 3227

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, our seniors and Elders are the fastest growing population in the NWT. Over the next decade, our seniors population over 60 will increase by 56 percent, and the demand for home care by 80 percent. As the GNWT pens an Elders strategy, we speak often in this House about the need for housing to support seniors to age in place with dignity. But what we don't talk about, Mr. Speaker, is the predictable surge of chronic illness. 31 percent of NWT residents over the age of 65 have diabetes, a disease shown to lead to neurodegeneration that substantially increases a Northerner's risk of Alzheimer's, other dementias, and Parkinson's.

Seniors with type 2 diabetes are twice as likely to develop Alzheimer's and 80 percent more likely to develop Parkinson's. Currently, Alzheimer's, dementias, and Parkinson's cannot be cured but treatment options are available to help mitigate the symptoms and health impacts associated with these conditions. But like any disease, before it can be treated or supported, it needs to be diagnosed.

The onset of dementias and Parkinson's have a slow progression and often symptoms that make life difficult for the individual travelling through life changes and that are hard to diagnose. These neurodegenerative diseases require a series of tests, many of which are not accessible in most of our communities, a full physical exam by a doctor, neurological exam by a specialist, blood work, CT scan, MRI, and EEG, and a PET. Travel and its associated stresses exacerbate neurological conditions, rendering our Elders further exhausted, stressed, and needing more medication to attend and participate in appointments for the purposes of finding out if their treatment and medication doses are working. This is counterintuitive, Mr. Speaker. But without diagnosis, there are no supports, and without supports, conditions worsen and quality of life suffers.

The number of Canadians living with dementia is expected to double by 2030, and the number of Canadians living with Parkinson's are expected to double by 2031.

Mr. Speaker, the NWT does not have physicians who specialize in the care of neurodegenerative disease, and we are in the wake of a wave that is about to break. The people who birthed us, taught us, loved us, and cared for us are ageing. The times are shifting, and it is our turn to be the caregivers. But I am worried that we are not resourced, ready, or acknowledging what is required for our Elders to age in place with dignity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Chronic Diseases in Seniors
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake.

Canada Greener Homes Grant Program
Members' Statements

Page 3228

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I'll talk today about problems with the federal Energy Efficiency Grant Program that are preventing NWT residents from receiving program benefits, saving energy, and cutting greenhouse gas emissions.

The Canada Greener Homes Grant Program was established in May 2021 by the federal government and provides cash grants up to $5,000 to private homeowners for energy efficiency retrofits. To receive the grant, applicants must have home energy audits done both before and after retrofits. The Arctic Energy Alliance is the only provider of such audits in the NWT that's certified by the federal -- or certified to federal standards.

The audit requirements apply to minor projects of even a few hundred dollars. The Alliance has long since set aside audit requirements for minor projects under its own programs, recognizing that many energy efficiency benefits are obvious without the need for individual assessment. The federal program fails to recognize the lack of certified auditors necessary to meet requirements in a timely fashion.

The alliance has two certified auditors and two more in training. Past efforts to provide energy audits through contractors in the NWT has not been successful, although that option is, again, being pursued.

The wait time for energy audits in Yellowknife is now up to a year. COVID restrictions on entry in to private homes can further aggravate the wait time on a situation. I'm calling on our Minister of Infrastructure to partner with other jurisdictions and convince the federal government to change the energy audit requirements for the Canada Greener Homes Grant Program to enable NWT residents to access the funding.

I'll have questions later today for the Minister of Infrastructure who has lead responsibility for the Arctic Energy Alliance. Merci, Mr. Speaker.

Canada Greener Homes Grant Program
Members' Statements

Page 3228

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh.

Eulogy for Gunnar Paulson
Members' Statements

Page 3228

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on September 30, 2021, Gunnar Paulson passed away at the age of 64. Gunnar is survived by his brother Chris and his three daughters: Josanne Kenny, Kristen Tanche, Hannah Paulson, and his two grandchildren William and Amaria Tanche.

Gunnar grew up in Weyburn, Saskatchewan, and always planned on travelling when he got older. When the travel bug hit him, he was off. He spent time all over the Northwest Territories, Saskatchewan, Iceland, and many other places. In the 80's, he settled in the Northwest Territories, mostly in the Deh Cho and Tlicho regions but also spent a lot of time in the Yellowknife area.

Gunnar worked in many different professions, from fishing, surveying, office administration to diamond mining. He was a hard-working person who enjoyed all different jobs he had.

I had the pleasure of meeting Gunnar when he worked for the Whati Band. He was well respected by his co-workers and bosses. He worked hard to get things done right. However, the job wasn't what he was most proud of, and that was being a father and grandfather. He was a loving father and was very proud of his daughters and grandchildren. He was full of stories about their successes and challenges.

Gunnar was well known for his humour. He enjoyed telling funny stories and he had a long list of one-liners he would use during your conversation with him. If it didn't happen, you were disappointed. However, there was one thing that stood out was Gunner's generosity. If he was able to part with something to make the other person's life better, he would do it. Like the old saying "he would give the shirt right off his back for you." This was Gunnar. He had a lot of friends all over the North and will be sorely missed.

The family would like to extend their gratitude and appreciation to all those who came to pay their respects to Gunnar in person or virtually. Mahsi for showing him support, love, and compassion. The family are grateful for everybody's kindness during this difficult time. His daughters would like to thank the Stanton medical staff, the doctors, nurses, and nurses aides for making their father comfortable during the last few months. As well, for making the family feel wanted and respected during this difficult time. Mr. Speaker, he will be sadly missed by us all. Thank you.

Eulogy for Gunnar Paulson
Members' Statements

Page 3228

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nahendeh. Our thoughts and prayers are with the family and community at this time. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Acknowledgements. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The questions are for the Minister of Health. Can the Minister tell this Assembly how many locum health care providers the department employs throughout the NWT? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for the question. For the month of December, there will be 77 locum physicians providing services to the NWT. It sounds like a lot, but this is substantially lower than the average of 103 locums per month. In addition, as of October 31st the following casual locum staff working throughout the Northwest Territories Health and Social Services Authority: 11 community health nurses, one midwife, one nurse practitioner, one respiratory therapist, and 26 registered nurses. And to give some context to these numbers, as of June the 30th there were 338 frontline nursing positions and a total of 1509 positions throughout the whole of the NTHSSA. Thank you.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell this Assembly if these positions are concentrated in Yellowknife or throughout other communities as well; and, due to increased vacancy of health care professionals, is the department looking to locums to fill the gap going forward? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the NWT Health and Social Services system has always relied on locums, and that is still the case. The positions are located throughout the NWT, and we use them to cover short-term gaps and ensure that we're providing quality services to our patients. Thank you.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister confirm if locum turnover is something the department considers real, something constituents say is happening and resulting in inadequate and untimely community health care. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, locums are self-employed basically. They come here on short-term contracts, and they may come once, they may come on a schedule; there's no way to know. And on the employer end, they are used to fill gaps as necessary. So in some cases, we do see locums returning on a regular basis and, wherever possible, we encourage them to continue coming to the NWT to ensure that patient continuity that the Member was seeking of.

In addition, we maintain a locum talent pool list which is a list that we consult and call people from on an ongoing basis.

What we've seen from locums in recent months is that there's a lower uptake across all health care areas, and that's not just in the NWT; it's across the country as well. And so we're monitoring this and determining whether we need to increase our recruitment efforts not only of full-time staff but of locums as well. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, an issue that is discussed is of some health care staff is the inequity in the treatment between permanent staff and locums. It is assumed locums are treated better when it comes to compensation and time on the job. Can the Minister confirm if this is an issue and if so, how is it being addressed? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you. The terms and conditions of the collective agreement set out the compensation and benefits provided to our indeterminate and casual employees, and this includes locum nursing contracts. Physician locum compensation is separate and in its own collective agreement with the NWT Medical Association. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Nunakput.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today my Member's statement was on COVID-19 and what are our safety precautions going forward, and it was for the COVID Secretariat, the Premier. Mr. Speaker, my residents and my leadership in Nunakput are concerned that travellers are coming from outside the territory, are not getting COVID tested before coming into our smaller communities out of Yellowknife into Ulukhaktok. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So I'll start with saying that there's a couple factors with that. The transportation of airlines is governed by Canada, regulated under by Transport Canada, and right now they have, I think it was October they started and at the end of November so we're there, all passengers who fly on their airline have to now be vaccinated, so that is one method of controlling COVID spread. However, I know that there was a request from Ulukhaktok to get testing when people get on the planes. So there's a couple things with that as well. There's that Ulukhaktok has one of the highest rates -- they're really doing well; they have 91 percent fully vaccinated. 95 percent are partially vaccinated. We don't have the testing capacity to do every community right now. And there's false negatives and false positives and so it's not a matter of getting a test and being safe. That leads people to the assumption that they can just go about business. No one's allowed to isolate in small communities. They have to isolate in the regional centres. Or the hub communities such as -- Ulukhaktok would be Inuvik or Yellowknife if they're coming through here. At this point we're telling people that the best precaution against COVID is get vaccinated, wear your mask, keep your bubble small, stay home if you're sick. And keep six meters of space between you. So, again, we don't want to set up false expectations that someone gets tested and they're safe, because that's not the truth. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thought it being Yellowknife, it would be an automatic yes to get a testing machine at the airport. We have a $20 million revolving fund, maybe we can use some of that to use it. The thing is, Mr. Speaker, our communities are small - where you going to go? Soon as you're going to get medevaced out of the community or why wasn't that same concern brought up in Tuk, why weren't they shipped out into Inuvik in the isolation centre? You're telling me one of my outside communities are able and the other one's not? So kind of where we're going with this, Mr. Speaker, thank you.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A couple questions there, I'll try to answer them. The reality is when an outbreak does hit a community such as Tuk was hit, we don't move people outside once the community has already been infected with the COVID-19. What we do is we try to isolate that community, that's happened in all of our smaller communities, and we've been able to contain it.

One of the best defenses, as I stated, was six feet, not six meters, correction on that one. But every -- when we first saw COVID first hit, we asked our departments to make sure that every local community government had a plan on how to deal with COVID. So what I would say is Ulukhaktok, if they don't have a plan on how to deal with a community outbreak, please contact me and we will make sure that we work with them to make sure that they have a plan so that if COVID hits, they will know what to do. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Every community has a community plan in regards to COVID right now. That's not the question. The question is will the Premier commit to getting people -- putting more responsibility on the airline to say, Okay, here's a piece of paper I got COVID test. If they have that COVID test they could fly out of Ulu or fly from Yellowknife to Ulu, for the safety -- and being resolved I guess to my leadership in the community because people are worried. So thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that goes back to the first question about getting testing and airlines, at this point we're not looking at doing that because that is not -- it is not a guarantee that if you get tested that you do not have COVID. That's why we ask people to be tested on day one, day eight, day ten, depending on their orders, is because you can get a false negative or a false positive and, again, we don't want to set up the communities to think that everybody who gets off the plane is safe, because that is not the truth. So it's all of us have a responsibility. This pandemic is turning to an endemic and so we all have a responsibility to make sure that we keep our bubble small and we do the best we can to protect our communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Honourable Premier. Final supplementary, Member for Nunakput.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know, because it's travel and NWT, will it make people pay themselves $262.50 to get tested? So, Mr. Speaker, going back can the Premier provide a "lessons learned" of COVID-19 and how her COVID Secretariat has -- can be I guess improved and to have response teams going into the communities instead of the way this pandemic, when it first hit, my leadership was put to the test and they did good but at the end of the day, we need the help. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Absolutely, we'll be doing a "lessons learned." I mean, we didn't know what we were getting into when we got COVID. We don't know whether we would make it or not. The reality is that it is becoming an endemic and we have to learn with this so we will be doing a lessons learned once we get -- figure out if it's going to keep coming or not.

But along the way, Mr. Speaker, we have not been not learning from our experiences. Every single community that's got hit by COVID has taught us things. And every time we get a community that does have an outbreak, we try to look at what are some of the areas that we did really well, what are some of the areas we need to work on. And so the next community that does get hit, and honestly, Mr. Speaker, we do better. But I do say that the community governments themselves have done phenomenal. So it's community governments, it's Indigenous governments, it's the GNWT, and it's every resident working together that has brought us to where we are with COVID today. And thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Honourable Premier. Oral questions. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And with regards to the rolling out of the Living Well Together, I'd like to ask the Minister of Finance what is the target date, or if there was a target date set for the completion of all of this training for all GNWT staff? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this was launched back in March of 2021. It was mandated to be for everyone and everyone is expected to have it done by March of 2022. And new employees will have a year from their start date. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since I only get four questions and I'm not allowed to switch ministers, can I ask the Minister of Finance, since it was created in her department, to bring this to Cabinet for the discussion to make sure that the prioritization for this training is for our frontline staff and if that's what I could get a commitment for that. Thank you.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'll bring this to my colleagues. I know they're all listening. This is mandatory for all staff. This is one of those policies that is coordinated out of the Department of Finance through human resources. There was a real recognition of how important this was, and a lot of effort and time and collaboration, internal and external, went into these materials, so. It's already a priority but I'll certainly recommit to reinforcing that and to confirming with the Member as we do that. I want us all to be held accountable for taking this training. It is very good. I've had people reach out to me from outside the public service, from outside of the Northwest Territories asking for it. So we'll certainly -- maybe I should have just said a yes, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

I'm going to get the yeses today. Okay. So as I mentioned in my statement, you know, it's been brought to my attention, I've had a lot of discussions with a lot different staff, especially since I came to Yellowknife, in different areas, nursing issue, frontline staff, but it's been brought to my attention that employees, and I know I've talked to this to the Minister before, that they're able to fast forward through the modules, to be able to complete and check box that they finished the training faster, not necessarily having to go through the training. So like I said, that was very discouraging and disheartening for me to hear that. So how is the department auditing the completion of this training? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I share the Member's view. That is not what we want to be hearing and there was actually quite a number of, what I thought fairly clever, controls put in place and it wasn't the first time the Member raised that with myself and so the department's well aware. Techniques were used -- you can't advance very far unless you have sort of gone through the motions of clicking through various items. You either have to read a certain number or you have to view a certain number of videos or dialogs in order to advance. So there's some interesting ways in there that really do sort of push people to go through the materials.

You know, human beings are what they are and I suppose they will always find a way if they want to. But that is again, that is disheartening. It is possible to watch the amount of time an employee spends on each module. So certainly, you know, at a management level, that can be monitored. That takes a lot of effort and I would certainly hope we wouldn't have to be doing that.

We do have over 3700 employees who have started this training, so there are a lot folks who are doing it. I believe a lot of folks are doing it and doing it well. And I think really all we can do is continue to provide support to managers so that they can make sure that they're getting time and encouragement to their own staff to be completing this properly and fulsomely. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Minister for that. I think the one thing that frontline staff, and especially health care staff, are used to doing training, doing tests, just like CPR, just like any other courses, and so I'm just wondering if the Minister would consider implementing a mandatory test at the completion of this training to ensure that staff recognize the importance of this training and can demonstrate that the comprehend the issues facing Indigenous people in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, throughout the modules there are points along the way where one can -- or actually to advance, you have to complete a test and does check in on what you have taken out of a certain section or out of a certain module in order to move forward. So there's those internal tests along the way. Yes, those are not necessarily being monitored by a manager or by someone's supervisor. But, Mr. Speaker, perhaps what I would like to do is to go back to the departments, see what we with do. You know, the point of the training isn't necessarily to score people. It's to create culture change. It's to create a public service that is inclusive and diverse representative and understanding and trauma-aware and culturally-aware and culturally-sensitive; you know, to really reflect the Northwest Territories. I'm not sure that a test is going to do that. If someone is struggling with those concepts I'm not sure that the test is going to achieve that. But, Mr. Speaker, I'm going to commit to going back to the department and seeing what else we can do to ensure that anyone who has completed this is achieving those goals. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Deh Cho.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, according to the Department of Health and Social Services business plan for 2021-2022, one of the key activities to address diabetes is to implement Primary Health Care Reform. The Minister stated in the House on February 9th, 2021 that the Deh Cho would begin to receive PHCR by December 2021. Can the Minister explain what the Primary Health Care Reform program is all about? Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Member for Deh Cho for that question.

So Primary Health Care Reform goes beyond the traditional health care system, and it is a system-wide initiative to provide culturally-safe and relationship-based care in both the Health and Social Services system. So rather than having decisions made in a centralized way and then implemented through regions and communities, under the Primary Health Care Reform, frontline clients and staff and communities are involved in developing new approaches and solutions based on their own needs and priority, building on their strengths, and addressing challenges that are specific to that place.

It's my understanding that work started in the Deh Cho to bring about Primary Health Care Reform in mid May but for a variety of reasons, that work has been delayed and we would like to get back to it and encourage the community to engage us in that. Thank you.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker, and mahsi to the Minister for that reply. Mr. Speaker, I note Integrated Care Teams projects have been launched in all the large regional centres. Can the Minister explain the purpose and functions of the teams? Mahsi.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. The purpose of the Integrated Care Teams is to allow for greater access and continuity of care and delivery to patients. So the model places the patient and the family at the center of care and then it allows primary care teams to bring in other service providers to provide an integrated spectrum of services to the patient and/or their family. So the idea here is to break down these silos of care and to bring them together into one team. So it is important to know, however, at this point, per the Member's statement, that the Integrated Care Teams are separate from the Chronic Disease Management Demonstration projects that are happening in the Deh Cho, but there is potential in the future for them to overlap. Thank you.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker, and mahsi to the Minister for some good news. Looking forward to all that to help our small communities address their chronic diseases.

Mr. Speaker, the department's plan to implement community-based models to promote self-management of chronic diseases in creating new diabetic/dietician positions, or someone that looks after diabetes, can the Minister elaborate further on the department's plans for the positions and, specifically, into the small communities? Mahsi.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, progress in this area has been about implementing community-based models to promote self-management of chronic diseases and creating, as the Member referenced, new diabetic/dietician positions. So the health authorities now have registered dieticians in every region of the NWT and so they, together, serve every community in the NWT. They're trained to provide to support -- to support people living with diabetes and they do this not only by providing education and support but also education in the form of, for example, grocery store tours, health fairs, and other health-promoting activities to assist people who have diabetes. So each regional dietician will see diabetic clients on a regular basis. The frequency depends on the individual's needs, and these visits could be in person, over the phone, or online, depending on what suits the needs of the patient. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Deh Cho.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker, and mahsi to the Minister for that bit of information. They may have regional positions. But, you know, as to really go into the small communities because they really don't have anybody face-to-face. Health centre nurses are already busy as it is. We really need someone that's specific to this kind of care, and there are people out there that are trained do that, to really help our people. Because, you know, I've had an Elder who went through a really difficult stress because he wasn't aware of the diabetes, you know, the illness and the seriousness of it and there's nobody in the community to talk to on this, and it's a really scary situation for all our small communities.

Mr. Speaker, I noted in my Member's statement the department hasn't updated statistics on diabetes in Northwest Territories for some time. This information could include age groups, male/female, by community, etcetera, etcetera. I just want to note that the Department of Infrastructure, the department I worked with previously, the maintenance department has a -- you know, a maintenance management program, WebWorks, and you can find out from one building all the work orders that were done on that building within the year. And, you know, we should be able to have something so we can identify the number of diabetics in all the different communities. I know there's challenges associated with that but I just wanted to ask the Minister if they would look into a database to track and record chronic diseases, including diabetes. Mahsi.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, all the provinces and territories, including the NWT, submit data to the Canadian Chronic Disease Surveillance System, and the latest statistics for diabetes were published in 2020. The information is broken down by demographics such as age, sex, ethnicity, and community type. And "community type" includes Yellowknife regional centres and small communities. And earlier today I provided the Member with the number of diabetics who live in his community.

The data gathered by the Canadian Chronic Disease Surveillance System is further broken down into a more user-friendly format for the public by reference to the Department of Health and Social Services population health division. It's important to note that diabetes rates do not change dramatically from year to year. And so with that, that kind of certainty, Health and Social Services has been able to not only plan but provide programming for people who are diabetics well in advance.

For people who need diabetic care, it really starts with the diagnosis of diabetes. And if someone is feeling the possible symptoms of diabetes, then they should go to the health centre and make known to the nurse there that they are experiencing these symptoms and ask to be tested for them. Once the diagnosis is confirmed, then these other supports are put in place. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Thebacha.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell us if there are any future plans for the government to build an aftercare facility or a wellness and recovery centre in a community outside of the capital region? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can tell the Member, the Member from Thebacha as well as the other Members, that our focus right now is opening the permanent wellness and recovery centre which the Member referenced in her statement. This facility will replace the current day and sobering centre, and the services offered in the one place will be transferred to the other once the building is open.

At this time, there are no plans to establish a similar service in any other community. That would require new resources which would need to follow established GNWT resource allocation processes which we all know start with a business plan, end with the budget. Thank you.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, would the Minister consider opening a satellite wellness and recovery centre that's related to the one in the capital but situated in a different regional centre in the NWT? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am aware of similar requests for day shelter options in other communities, including in Hay River and in Inuvik and in Fort Simpson, but establishing this type of service in other communities would need to involve conversations with partners at the NWT Housing Corporation who are the lead on homelessness, taking as a starting-point that most of these services are required by homeless individuals.

Should there be a way forward to establish additional day sheltering programs, there would be an opportunity to use what we've learned running the temporary day shelter here in Yellowknife, as well as the sobering centre, and use that to create a template for approaches in other communities so that it becomes the centre here becomes a model for similar centres should the partnerships and the money materialize. Thank you.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, if the government is unable to open a satellite recovery centre on its own, would the Minister consider partnering with Indigenous governments, or other communities and organizations, to open a separate standalone recovery centre? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm absolutely open to the idea of creating a partnership in a community outside of Yellowknife to offer these services, however, there would still be the question of resources, where the program was going to be located and who was going to pay for it. So at this point, as I said, there is no plan for a new facility or for the additional resources that would be required. But if Indigenous governments or community organizations are interested in partnering in the provision of wellness services, I urge them to contact me. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Final supplementary, Member for Thebacha.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, has the Minister engaged with any Indigenous or community governments about any potential partnerships in building a recovery centre or aftercare facility within the NWT, specifically in any region outside of the capital? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, to this point no Indigenous government or community organization has contacted me about this idea. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services following up on what my colleague from Thebacha has been asking.

If we're waiting on the data from this wellness centre in Yellowknife as stated, then that puts the centres outside of Yellowknife into years, if not a decade, before that they would be constructed. How is the Minister and the department making this a priority given the need outside the capital for these services? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you. I take it that the Member is talking about buildings. We don't have any buildings on the books other than the wellness and recovery centre in Yellowknife. In Members decide that's a priority, they should bring it to the regular business plan process and pursue the resources necessary to build and operate it. Thank you.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since I asked how this was going to be a priority, I guess the Minister's response is that it's not.

The next question I have is has the Minister contacted the federal government to advocate for the reinstatement of the funding for survivors of residential school trauma so that the face-to-face counseling is reinstated and the services can resume; and, if she hasn't, why not? Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, aftercare is a huge priority for me. I spoke about it endlessly as a regular Member, and I continue that passion in this role now.

I'd just like to clarify that the Indian Residential counseling Service is not, in fact, cancelled. The service has been reduced so that face-to-face counseling occurs less often, approximately every four to six weeks, and there are alternative ways t-to -- to obtain counseling between times using the phone and the internet and so on as constituent -- as residents are comfortable in and according to the technology that they have. Thank you.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd ask that the Minister listen more carefully. I did not ask about -- or state that these services were cancelled. I asked about advocating for the reinstatement of the funding so that the services being more than every eight weeks or six to four is reinstated. However, I'm going to move on because I'm going to guess that I'm probably not getting answers to these questions either.

If we are going to be putting people on to virtual care and services, what is the Minister and department doing to identify and accommodate residents in small communities who require counseling but may not have access to the phone or internet or be comfortable with that method of delivery? Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thanks. I'm not a big fan of all the editorializing but I'm happy to answer the questions.

So most communities have a resident counselor through either the community counseling service or the child and youth counseling program. And in the event that they don't have a resident counselor, a counselor visits on a known schedule to provide those services.

I recognize from my own travels in the NWT that it's not easy in some communities to obtain enough internet connectivity to sustain a conversation, especially one that has video related to it, and that's a real impediment to the services that people receive. At this point, that is an issue that is beyond my department to solve. But we are keen to offer services to as many people in as timely a way as possible to preserve or enhance their mental health. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final short supplementary, Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And Mr. Speaker, I'm not a fan of the way the Minister speaks to me either but we can't always get what we want, can we?

Can the Minister please tell us how she actually advocates with the federal government for more money for supports for our people besides the FPT tables? Does she ever contact the federal minister outside to tell them what is going on in the territory? Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, Mr. Speaker. I'll take that question on notice.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you. Oral questions. Member for Monfwi.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, masi, Mr. Speaker. Question for the Minister responsible for NWT Housing. So first question is basing rent of someone's income discouraging people to work. Why are people who are working penalized with increased rent?

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Minister responsible for Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Housing Corporation tries to provide subsidized rent for the Northwest Territories. And I know that we can do better, and I know through the renewal that we do have that, you know, this is one of the policies that we will be reviewing as well. But the Housing Corporation right now calculates rent as low as 4 percent and 19 percent. Throughout Canada, it's 30 percent that is required for subsidized housing. So we're one of the lowest for the jurisdictions throughout the territory -- I mean, throughout Canada. But it doesn't stop us from reviewing that as well. Like, I hear the Member as well because we did get a number of tenants that had acquired the CERB funding as well, and it's really provided a lot of, you know, just different calculations this year, including the -- that funding that was received by the client as well, and I do hear the Member. The Housing Corporation will provide more communications to the local housing authorities and our service providers as well too. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you. I was not talking about CERB, but that's okay. And then at least they admit that, you know, they can do better job.

So I think with the -- with reference to the first questions, I know that there are leaders in the community, they would like to work with the Housing Corporations on drafting policy in this area as well. So second questions, with so many people living in inadequate housing, even those who are paying max rent, maximum rent, so we would like to know what's happening to the revenue.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to just inform, like, just the House and the Member as well too that the Housing Corporation's lowest rent that we collect is $75. And with the $75, we do have the utilities and utilities that are included in that rent as well too, property taxes and leases as well, and we try to work with the client to have affordable rent calculated in the Northwest Territories. And we are going to be working with the Council of Leaders as well too, that will have the opportunity to review our policies. So we do practice and encourage our engagements as well too with the -- with the Indigenous groups as well.

And I just wanted to comment on the CERB funding that I had identified, is that we see a really huge increase, rent increase throughout the Northwest Territories, and it is due to CERB. So there's a lot of assessments that are being done right now as well too to not include the CERB payments that were received last year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Okay, thank you. She didn't answer my questions. I want to know what happened to those people who are paying maximum rent, what happens to the revenue? That's what I would like to know.

But I am aware now that there are rent-to-own program. There are rent-to-own program in the communities. Can the Minister give us an update on how many people in the NWT are in rent-to-own program and when these tenants will become a homeowners? Thank you.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And for the rent-to-own program, it is our HELP program that we do have throughout the Northwest Territories, and I don't have those numbers in front of me. But the Housing Corporation right now is doing a full review of all our mortgage clients right now, and I have told the department that I would like to see those units transferred within my time, to have those homeownership programs completed and closed off.

I think there's approximately 234 throughout the Northwest Territories that have entered into the mortgage homeownership program.

And also just going back to the question for what happens to the revenue. The Housing Corporation acquires about $5 million annually in rent received from our public housing units, but that also goes back into the operation and maintenance of the units as well too, and it's about $20,000 for operation and maintenance for the 2300 units throughout the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Monfwi.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

More questions. Okay. The NWT Housing Corporation has several homes -- homeownership program. Approvals to participate in this -- in these program is low, okay. So can the Minister of NWT Corporation commit to guaranteeing an application approval rate that reflects national homeownership rates? Thank you.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Right now all of our single-family housing dwellings are up for sale. Today we have 105 applications that have been received, and the Housing Corporation tries to work very diligently with the client in trying to help them to become successful in the homeownership program. But nationally, I don't have those numbers in front of me. I'd have to follow up with the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services. Further to my Member's statement, I'm wondering if the Minister can advise us of the rates of Alzheimer's, dementia, and Parkinson's disease in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this information is housed in the same place as I mentioned to the Member from Deh Cho, the Canadian Chronic Disease Surveillance Program which, as a reminder, is a collaborative network of provincial and territorial surveillance systems supported by the Public Health Agency of Canada.

The information on the website is broken down into geographic region, age, and sex; and the rate of Alzheimer's and other dementias in the NWT for residents aged 65 and older is 5.73 percent which compares to 6.68 percent nationally. The rate of Parkinson's in the NWT for residents aged 40 years and older is 0.25 percent versus 0.43 percent nationally. Thank you.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. And I appreciate that, and I think that it's important that we establish a baseline if it's expected to go up substantially over the next decade.

Mr. Speaker, the rate of Parkinson's among NWT residents is low, but watching very intimately residents try to go through the process of being diagnosed leads me to believe that maybe we do have more of a higher instance of Parkinson's in the Northwest Territories and Alzheimer's and just are not aware of it.

So I'm wondering, Mr. Speaker, what supports are available to Northerners with neurodegenerative diseases in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it all starts with the relationship between the health provider and the patient. They would be able to recommend a range of health and social services that would assist with diagnosis, treatment, and support. For example, medications and medical supplies and equipment can be covered through the NIHB program for First Nations and Inuit residents and the Supplementary Health Benefits program for non-Indigenous residents. Home care services are available to residents in all communities, and Meals on Wheels in some communities. Rehabilitation services are available in person through community outreach visits and virtually to support individuals with mobility, cognitive, and other impairments resulting from their conditions.

It's also important to say that Indigenous governments are active in this area. The IRC has a dementia coordinator, and that non-profits, like the Alzheimer's Society, are also active in this area to support individuals who have neurodegenerative diagnoses. Thank you.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and I appreciate that information. I think anecdotally from what I am learning, alongside some constituents, is that the process of going through the recognizing of a degenerative disease and then from there being able to go through the process and begin the process of being diagnosed is really a difficult, difficult stage of the -- of the entire journey and that we do not have, in the Northwest Territories, specialists who are able to help people through that process and that can be very, very difficult because you end up kind of trapped in this area of not knowing what someone has, not knowing where to turn them and where to support them, and so I'm wondering if the Minister can speak to, given the expectation of the growth of these diseases across Canada, what the hiring plan is for the NTHSSA to support the surge of neurodegenerative diseases expected over the next decade? Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there isn't hiring that's being planned that would support diagnosis of neurodegenerative diseases. That really requires a level of specialty that it's necessary to use medical travel to obtain. So, you know, the person would need to go to Edmonton or another place where that kind of specialty is available. What we're offering more is how to support the patient who has that diagnosis.

So going back to home and community care, there was a comprehensive review of that program done in September 2019, and it did, indeed, verify what the Member has said, that there is an anticipated surge in need coming from across the NWT, and it's my information that the health authorities are moving towards meeting this need. They are recruiting a health planner and a manager for continuing care planning to lead this work, and the positions will be advertised in January. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. And I appreciate the Minister's recognition that a lot of this work does require a specialist to really go through this process with someone. And often medical travel's not always a possibility. Sometime there are a multitude of appointments that need to happen, and sometimes along the way people just need to be able to ask questions. And so I'm wondering if this position of a health planner and the plans of the NTHSSA speak to possibilities of creating a host of specialists that can speak to different conditions that Northerners have that Northerners could then access. We've been doing a lot of work as far as virtual care and really expanding a database of physicians and specialists within that and so is there work that can be done to provide a greater level of support virtually for people, then, to be able to answer those questions and help them through this journey? Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm not aware that specific staffing is being considered at this point, although it makes sense to have someone who is able to answer questions and provide a navigation-type of role with people with neurodegenerative diseases for the reason that the Member has mentioned, that the incidences of these diseases is likely to get greater as time goes on.

I know of people who have had neurodegenerative diseases in the Northwest Territories who have received good support from non-profits, but mostly that's been by telephone and not by in-person means. And so there's clearly work that needs to be done in this area. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was hoping the Minister of Health and Social Services could tell me which procedures or services we presently track the wait times for and which we don't. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we're very interested in tracking wait times because it is a tangible measurement of how quickly the system is providing services to those people in need. We, however, do not track every possible program and service for a variety of reasons that aren't very interesting because they mostly have to do with software and data collection.

But having said that, we do track and report on wait times for long-term care placements, home care services, community counselling, rehab services, and colonoscopies. And some individual clinics are also posting wait times in the clinic. So there are some places that people can find this online. Thank you.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I suspect it's the boring explanation "due to software" that I am most interested in, Mr. Speaker. I note, on that list, was a very short list of services we're tracking wait times for and did not include a number of procedures and surgeries which is where I get most of my constituent complaints. I'm just wondering if there is any work to be done to create some sort of dashboard where that information is available publicly. I know this is done across all the provinces in Canada. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the Member in his statement referenced a knee replacement that took a number of years to accomplish. I don't think that we track those wait times for those major joint surgeries, and I know the time is variable. You can put yourself on a waitlist and get within a few months, or you can end up waiting years. I don't know how hard it is to track that kind of information so that's something I would have to take back to the department and inquire about.

There is some information online which I want to bring to the Member's attention.

  • Home care wait times are available at yourhealthsystem.ca.
  • The community counseling wait times are on the same website.
  • Long-term care times are in the Department of Health and Social Services annual report.
  • Wait times for colonoscopies were in the most recent business plan.
  • And we are trying to develop a methodology for reporting on rehab services, and this is a commitment in the four-year business plan, which we dealt with last year.

Thank you.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yeah, I would appreciate the Minister getting back to the House with information on how or what software we need to do this. I know we are purchasing a new electronic medical records system which will cost millions of dollars. And I guess I wanted to also know, as I mentioned in my statement, when we did the vaccine roll out, the software, however we got it, was great. I think everyone who could book online and could see their appointments and get reminders was very happy with that software but I'll note, with perhaps the exception of occupational therapy and physiotherapy, no similar software is being used for any health services, and is that something we could look into. The department has actually flagged this before, that people missing appointments is a significant cause of their wait times and backlogs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said, this kind of tracking is important to us so that we have a full understanding of how long it is taking to meet people's needs for services in these areas. There are some limitations, as the Member referenced, to our electronic medical records system at this time. It's going to be retired in the 2023-2024 period, and it's going to be replaced with something that is going to be super-duper, I hope. And it's going to be able to have an online patient portal. It's going to have all kinds of different ways to report things such as those that the Member has inquired about so that we have a full set of dashboards for people to see. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I'm going to go to a different super-duper Minister with my questions, and they're for the Minister of Infrastructure who has responsibility for the Arctic Energy Alliance.

Can the Minister tell us whether she's aware of the difficulties caused by the federal energy pre- and post-audit requirements under the Canada Greener Homes Grant program, and what is she doing to fix that problem? Merci, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister responsible for Health and Social -- sorry, Infrastructure.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this super-duper Minister will answer two questions that I just heard. Yes, we are aware of the issue, and the GNWT and the Arctic Energy Alliance were not consulted before the federal program was put in place. We have made the federal government aware of our concerns with this program. While we do not have the ability to change the requirements set under a federal program, we will continue to engage with Natural Resource Canada towards a mutually-acceptable solution to this issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I think that was a yes, and good work. I appreciate that, thank you.

So can the Minister tell us, though, whether her department is working with other provincial and territorial jurisdictions to change this unnecessary federal program requirement of pre- and post- energy audits. Merci, Mr. Speaker.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the issue was raised with Natural Resource Canada by various jurisdictions throughout the intergovernmental energy efficient working groups, and we have spoken with the other jurisdictions in Canada about this problem, and there is a common concern, as the Member mentioned. We will continue to engage with Natural Resource Canada to be able to look at a solution to this problem. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. While I'm on a role, I got two, I'm going to keep going. So while the pre- and post-audit requirements are a problem, the other one is a lack of certified auditors to carry out the audits, the energy audits, and the cost of training monitors. What steps is the Minister taking to help increase the number of energy auditors, and is any additional funding being provided to Arctic Energy Alliance to help fix this problem? Merci, Mr. Speaker.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, there is a national shortage of energy auditors. We recognize that. We are currently training more energy auditors internally for the Northwest Territories. We now have two certified auditors and two more in training. This should be adequate to meet our needs, but efforts are continuing to build additional capacity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. Well, I guess all good streaks have to come to an end, but I appreciate the work that the Minister's doing on this, and Arctic Energy Alliance as well, but they may need some more money to help get this working a little better.

As a result of these energy audits, though, money I think is being left on the table for NWT homeowners and they could be using that to increase energy efficiency, save money, and combat climate change. What Arctic Energy Alliance energy retrofit funds have been lapsed over the last five years as a result of the inability to complete projects under the current energy audit requirements and other limitations? Merci, Mr. Speaker.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I heard the Member's asking for what funds have been lapsed through the programs here. And I just want to say that there were no funds lapsed as a result of any energy audit requirements. Only one Arctic Energy program requires an audit, and it's the Deep Home Energy Retrofit program. And we are able to prioritize those clients for audits. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Colleagues, our time for oral questions has expired. Written questions. Returns to written questions. Replies to the Commissioner's address. Petitions. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Reports of standing and special committees. Tabling of documents. Minister responsible for Lands.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Sorry, Mr. Speaker. I was daydreaming. Yeah, I'm being super-duper; I've got stuff I want to talk about here.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, Northwest Territories Surface Rights Board 2020-2021 Annual Report and the Audited Financial Statements. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Tabling of documents. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following three documents: Consolidated Budgets 2021-2022 of the Government of the Northwest Territories; Public Service Annual Report for 2020-2021; and, the Report of Special Warrants issued June to November of 2021. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Tabling of documents. Notices of motion. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that, on Tuesday, December 7th, 2021, I will move the following motion:

Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, that Ms. Bronwyn Watters be appointed as the Equal Pay Commissioner in accordance with the Public Services Act by the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories as recommended by the Legislative Assembly;

And further, that the Speaker be authorized to communicate the effective date of the appointment to the Commissioner. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Notices of motion. Member for Nunakput.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Tuesday, December 7th, 2021, I will move the following motion:

I move, seconded by the Honourable Member from Frame Lake, Committee Report 22-19(2), Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report to Telecommunications received by Committee of the Whole for consideration that same day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Notices of motion. Motions. Notices of motion for the first reading of bills. First reading of bills. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by Honourable Member for Range Lake, that Bill 42, Supplementary Appropriations Act (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for -- Minister of Finance. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? Motion is carried. Bill 42 has had first reading.

---Carried

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

First reading of bills. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Range Lake, that Bill 43, Supplementary Appropriations Act (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 43 has had first reading.

---Carried

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

First reading of bills. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Range Lake, that Bill 44, Supplementary Appropriations Act (Operations Expenditures and Borrowing Authorization), No. 4, 2020-2021, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 44 has had first reading.

---Carried

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

First reading of bills. Second reading of bills. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Range Lake, that Bill 42, Supplementary Appropriations Act (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, be read for the second time.

This bill makes supplementary appropriations for infrastructure expenditures of the Government of the Northwest Territories for the 2021-2022-fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Motion is in order and is non-debatable. To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 42 has had second reading.

---Carried

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Second reading of bills. Member -- Minister of Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Range Lake, that Bill 43, Supplementary Appropriations Act (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, be read for the second time.

This bill makes supplementary appropriations for operations expenditures of the Government of the Northwest Territories for the 2021-2022 fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Motion is in order and is non-debatable. To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 43 has had second reading.

---Carried

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Second reading of bills. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Range Lake, that Bill 44, Supplementary Appropriations Act (Operations Expenditures and Borrowing Authorization), No. 4, 2020-2021, be read for the second time.

This bill sets out limits on supplementary amounts that may be borrowed by the Commissioner on behalf of the government and authorizes the making of disbursements to pay the principal of supplementary amounts borrowed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Motion is in order and is non-debatable. To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 44 has had second reading.

---Carried

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Consideration of Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters, Bill 23, 24, 29, and 30, Committee Report 18-19(2), Committee Report 19-19(2), Tabled Document 437-19(2), with Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes in the chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I now call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Our committee wishes to consider Committee Report 18, Committee Report 19, Bill 24, Tabled Document 437-19(2) Capital Estimates 2022-2023, Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee, do you agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We will take a short recess and start with the first item.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we've agreed to consider Committee Report 18-19(2), Report on Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act. I will go to the chair of standing committee on economic -- oh, just a moment.

All right. So committee, we've agreed to consider Committee Report 18-19(2), Report on Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act. I will go to the deputy chair of the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment for any opening comments.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Madam Chair. Madam Chair, committee's report was read into the record on November 23rd, 2021 so I do not have any additional substantive comments to add at this time. Individual Members may have comments on the report. I would like to thank the committee for their work on this report. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee, I will now open the floor to general comment on Committee Report 18-19(2), Report on Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act. Any Members who wish to speak to this, please let me know so I can write your name down.

Thank you, committee. Do you agree that you've concluded consideration of Committee Report 18-19(2), Report on Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We have concluded consideration of Committee Report 18-19(2), Report on Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act.

All right. So we'll move on to Committee Report 19-19(2), Report on Bill 29, Resource Royalty Information Disclosure Statute Amendment Act. I will go to the chair of the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment for any opening comments.

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Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. No opening comments at this time. Or sorry, I have my script here.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole, Madam Chair, committee's report was read into the record. The committee could not reach an agreement to proceed with the bill. Individual Members may have their own comments on the report.

I'd like to thank stakeholders for their submissions, presentations, on to the review of the Bill 29 and the committee for their hard work on working on this report. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I will now open the floor to general comments on Committee Report 19-19(2), Report on Bill 29, Resource Royalty Information Disclosure Statute Amendment. All those who wish to speak to this, please let me know. Nobody else going to speak to this? Anybody else? Okay, Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to have quite a few comments so I appreciate committee indulging me.

This was a private Member's bill brought forward by MLA O'Reilly. I thank him for doing that. It has started a lot of conversations in the department with industry, and within the committee. Ultimately this report has no recommendations and as noted by our chair, there wasn't -- the committee was not able to reach agreement on whether to proceed with it.

Firstly, I think there's a bit of a learning curve on how to deal with private Member's bills, and what exactly can be done in that case. Sometimes it opens up a conversation that puts a lot of work that could not be expected about private Member. And I think royalty disclosure is one of those.

I'll note this committee yesterday tabled a report with a number of recommendations regarding the mining fiscal review. One of those, I think most importantly, was for the department to look into transparency measures.

Some of the origin of this bill was the department's current review of the mining fiscal regime and committee asking for some hard data on what is actually been paid by the mines and then being told that that's not information that could be shared, which made the review kind of difficult and led to ultimately, I believe, MLA O'Reilly's private Member bill.

I want to clarify the current state. Right now, you can't find out how much the mines are paying in royalties with any precise measure. There's a number in the public accounts which contains oil and gas and mining royalties. We know, the last couple of years, they've paid about $20 million to the GNWT. You can't get that number to just be mining or just be oil and gas. I suspect the reason for that is if we just included oil and gas, well we're all very aware that would just be Imperial Oil's royalties, which is protected information. You could kind of, in a backhanded way, look, considering they're one-third owned by the federal government, find that out. Right now, the federal government has ESTMA which shows some of the payments that mines are making, but that doesn't necessarily line up within the public accounts, and there's a number of reasons committee got quite into detail about what ESTMA was intended to do versus what the public accounts are intended to do.

I think there's a lot of work to be done in the transparency area. As I said, I encourage the department to take that request seriously.

I'll note that the Member's private bill does not actually touch on public transparency at all. It is able being able to share information with committee. Committee also ran into this issue when one of our mines went in to creditor protection and we wanted to know how much they owed the GNWT. That was not a figure we were able to get, let alone publicly. There was some of that in the court records so you could kind of glean some things.

Also, committee has asked for some of the historical data, specifically, you know, what happened with gold mining in Giant Mine and Con Mine. There's one report done by the federal government that kind of gleans at that, and it really says that the most significant income government got from gold mining was personal income tax from miners. And this kind of leads to trying to piece together how much we're getting from mining is a very difficult thing to do. I think the government is not doing a good job of reporting enough in this area.

And I want to say, I think there is some credit to industry that there is an argument to be made that when you look at the impact benefit agreements, that our diamond mines might be paying the most in royalties of really anywhere in Canada, but no one can say that with a fact because the impact benefit agreements are extremely confidential.

I understand why they're confidential. If you, you know, ask the Tlicho to see their impact benefit agreement, they would tell you to go away quite quickly and the mines would also say no, that would prejudice our negotiation with other Indigenous groups. Also impact benefit agreements are hard to quantify because sometimes they're jobs, sometimes they're contracts, sometimes they're cash payments. And what is reported in ESTMA doesn't really reflect that. But given the size of some of our development corporations and the success, it's clear that the mining industry up here is working very well with Indigenous governments, but I think it would be nice to get a little more information on where we're actually going with that.

I think as part of the ongoing review that the department is doing, one of the big questions is how Indigenous governments can get more; what does the role of equity play in this? I note that that would be another one of those questions.

I also want to comment that I think there is a lot of mistrust in this area. I think there's mistrust from some members of the Department of ITI. I think there is mistrust between some members in industry. I think there's mistrust between some Members on the committee which led to some divisiveness. And I think we really can't have a reasonable conversation about mining and whether the mines are paying their fair share without building some of that trust. So I have some hesitancy about passing a private Member's bill that may, you know, start off what is going to be one of the most important conversations we have in this legislature about royalties if it's going to cause further mistrust. I think the department has a lot of work to do make sure that the various parties can come together and find some common agreement. I think there is common agreement that we want mining to pay their fair share, we want a little more transparency, but we don't want to, you know, essentially tax mines out of existence or make ourselves less competitive. Those are all balancing acts but to piece together what a mine is actually paying, you would have to get into IBAs, which you can't do; you'd have to get into corporate income tax, which you can't do; you'd have to get into personal income tax and payroll tax, which you can kind of glean. You have to then get into royalties, which you can't do. Then you'd have to get into the "I know we charge them some land lease fees and other payments.” So it really is a complex endeavor and the data that is incomplete and can be shared with committee is very incomplete.

I believe that a principle here that committee could allow the Minister to share more is a fair principle, and I believe the Minister, you know, is not going to hand over one of the mine's corporate income tax returns. I just don't believe that's ever going to happen. I don't think you're going to have the Minister of ITI handing over that kind of information. But I think you could get a Minister who could maybe confirm whether the modeling they're using right now to talk about mines is accurate of what is actually been collected over the years.

I think you could get a Minister to give committee a little more information about when they are using actual data based on what we have received since devolution verse modeling based on other jurisdictions. I think there is a lot of work to be done in this area, and I'm hoping that this Member's private Member's bill, as well as our report on the royalty resource review, can allow us to have a conversation that makes sure that the people of the Northwest Territories, the mines, the industry, and all Members in this House, understand what we are asking the mines to pay and understand how much in royalties they're actually paying. That's a very hard thing to figure out right now with publicly-available data.

That is all. I thank the department for their work. I thank all of the people who submitted on this. A number of people from industry came forward. I thank the committee for their deliberations.

I think probably the best course of action is to hold off on passing this bill until we get a response from yesterday's motions regarding the resource royalty review and to see what the department's next steps are but obviously that would be up to the Member who introduced it. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I spoke at length yesterday to my thoughts around the royalty regime and how the Department of ITI is carrying that out and the importance of our mining sector to our economy.

First off, I like efficiency. I like to spend my time on things that are worthwhile, that we can actually do something about. To me, this bill just seems to be here to sort of poke or inflame public perception of what is our biggest economic sector at a time when it is really struggling and they have shown to be good corporate citizens during the COVID pandemic.

It is -- if this bill were to be passed, the Minister would be under actually no obligation to share any further information than she already does and I would guess, given the confidentiality of sharing private company's financial statements with anyone, she's likely not to exercise her rights under this bill to share that information with us, which kind of makes me think this bill is irrelevant and pointless.

It is targeting a sector that is only one of our industries and only one sector that pays royalties to the Northwest Territories. There are other sectors that are not being included in this bill, including quarrying. If we're going to start asking that we get private information from private companies, then why aren't we doing that across the board to everybody that pays to the Northwest Territories? Instead, we are unfairly targeting one sector.

I do agree, there is a lot of mistrust and a lot of disagreement in this area; however, I think that pushing more bills towards forcing mining companies to do things and industry to do things is not a great way to start off the conversation, as Member Johnson stated. I think there's a lot of work that's going to be done and is being planned to be done by the Department of ITI, and to start off with doing this prematurely will get us off on the wrong foot. I will not support this bill. I think it is pointless. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, I do have some prepared comments. For the record, whenever Bill 29 was on the agenda for discussion at the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment, I declared a conflict of interest. I was not present for any discussion. The only exception was on September 15th, 2021, when I was invited by the committee to present on the bill and answer questions as part of the public hearing.

I will not discuss the bill directly or its merits as that is for another day. But I do wish to comment on parts of the committee report. The report states that some view the bill as "unaligned to other jurisdictions".

And that is true. What the bill does reflect is the concept of information sharing, including confidential information, that is at the foundation of consensus government. We even have a process convention where Regular MLAs can request confidential information and Cabinet can and does share confidential information with Regular MLAs, all in the interest of making better-informed decisions. That's not how party politics works.

We also have an evolving relationship with Indigenous governments that includes sharing of confidential information and even co-development or co-drafting of lands and resources legislation. So these two hallmarks of GNWT consensus government and an evolving relationship with Indigenous governments are what makes us different. And we should all be proud of that and incorporate that into how we review the mining fiscal regime. This is why Bill 29 is different than how things may be done elsewhere.

Concern was also expressed in the report that royalty information may be shared beyond financial and tax staff within the GNWT. This is what already exists now in the resource management legislation where royalty information can be shared within GNWT for "use in the development and evaluation of policy for the GNWT."

The current legislation allows royalty information to be made available to Cabinet and the public service but not Regular MLAs or Indigenous governments. This hardly seems fair in a consensus government.

The report states that some believe the bill does not support the mandate of the GNWT. The most relevant point from the priorities, and indeed the mandate of the 19th Assembly that we developed together back in November 2019, is the following, "adopt a benefit retention approach to economic development."

To me, this means finding ways to maximize benefits from development of one-time natural capital in the form of mineral resources. Our job as MLAs is try to find the right balance between competing rights and interests to maximize those benefits, including.

  • Revenues to public government in the form of royalties;
  • Profits to shareholders;
  • Jobs and contracts from resource development; and,
  • The distribution of benefits within the Northwest Territories and across generations.

This is exactly what we are trying to do with a procurement review and should be doing the same with the review of the Mining Fiscal Regime which requires informed decisions and access to information about royalties.

The only information now available from GNWT on resource royalties is the aggregate or total amount of mining and petroleum royalties and water fees on an annual basis. No information is available on how these royalties are calculated or the use of various allowances or depreciation. This makes our job trying to figure out ways to maximize benefits, including royalties, very difficult and more difficult than it needs to be.

The report states that royalty information is already available under the Federal Extractive Sector Transparency Measures Act. This is true, but the information presented in the ESTMA reports is self-reported with little to no oversight from the federal government. ESTMA data also varies greatly in terms of financial year dates, property sale by more than one mine, currency reported, and other factors. ESTMA data does not represent what GNWT actually receives, and there is no information on how royalties are calculated or why they may change from year to year.

Lastly, on the topic of duplication, on Monday of this week I tabled details of the ESTMA reports covering the producing mines and petroleum projects from 2016 to 2020, the period where GNWT has managed these resources under devolution. I attempted to reconcile the royalty payments reported as paid to GNWT in the ESTMA reports and the royalties received by GNWT as reported in the public accounts.

There is no duplication between ESTMA and public accounts. There would be no additional reporting required under Bill 29, as it only covers royalty information already in the possession of GNWT. And sorry, I need to go back.

On any given year, the figures are presented in ESTMA and when you look at the public accounts, they're out between anywhere between about $11 million and $54 million. So there is no duplication. It's not the same figures. You cannot reconcile them.

The report from the committee expressed concern that Bill 29 would only apply to the mining and petroleum sector and not other extractive sectors such as quarrying or forestry.

Quarrying revenues are already reported separately in the public accounts as revenues to the Department of Lands and, generally, amount to $82,000 to $173,000 per year, a mere fraction of what mining and petroleum royalties comprise in any given year.

There is no current active commercial forestry in the NWT; and, if there was, those revenues would likely be reported separately by ENR in the public accounts.

All this to say that other extractive industries' payments to GNWT are reported separately in the public accounts, but we only get an aggregate resource royalty amount from mining and petroleum right now.

It was noted in the report that Bill 29 would give the ITI Minister discretion to disclose royalty information to Regular MLAs and Indigenous governments. This is absolutely true. But right now, there is a legislative barrier preventing the Minister from disclosing any royalty information outside of Cabinet or the public service.

It's my view such discretion is appropriate and that the Minister would exercise this discretion judiciously but in ways that should allow for better-informed mining fiscal regime review and ultimately better decisions around ways in which we can maximize benefits.

I know that at least three submissions on Bill 29 suggested changes but committee does not appear to have responded in any way to those recommendations. I was disappointed that committee did not express any views on these proposed changes and did not propose any amendments.

No recommendations for policy changes were made either, specifically with regard to information sharing during the mining fiscal review or more generally transparency and accountability regarding resource royalties and benefit retention.

I contrast this approach with what happened in the Standing Committee on Government Operations on another private Member's bill, a report that we dealt with yesterday, where specific recommendations were made to Cabinet, including proposals to deal with underlying issues.

In conclusion, I thank the committee for its work on the bill and look forward to more opportunities to discuss this bill, the mining fiscal regime review, greater transparency around resource royalty reporting, and benefit retention. Merci, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. The reporting with resource royalties to Indigenous governments that signed on to devolution is a percentage of the entire royalty that is received by all resource development in the North, and it's per capita to all those who have signed on to devolution. So there is a way of looking at this in a different way, and the Indigenous governments would not be willing to share those kind of -- that kind of information. It's an agreement between the federal government and Indigenous governments when they signed on to devolution. And maybe that's one of the reasons why this kind of information is kept confidential, and rightfully so. They're the first peoples of the North, and they're First Nations, and I want to recognize my colleague to the left. I mean, he works very hard for his -- the mandate that he carries and might not always agree with him but, you know, I appreciate his view also. But I want to say that there are some agreements that when you are in - when you come to an agreement with the federal government on devolution and agreed to go on with devolution in -- and in royalty sharing, those are private agreements with the Indigenous government and it was also signed off by the government of the NWT, but that was one of the things that was to be kept confidential, okay. So thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Thank you, committee. Do you agree that you have concluded consideration of Committee Report 19-19(2), Report on Bill 29, Resource Royalty Information Disclosure Statute Amendment Act?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We have concluded consideration of Committee Report 19-19(2), Report on Bill 29, Resource Royalty Information Disclosure Statute Amendment Act.

Committee, we've agreed to consider Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act. I will ask the Minister of Infrastructure to introduce the bill.

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Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm here to introduce Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act.

The Revolving Funds Act establishes several revolving funds in operation in the Northwest Territories and sets out the authorized limits for those funds. One of these is the Petroleum Products Revolving Fund, through which the Government of the Northwest Territories funds the cost of purchasing, selling, and distributing petroleum products to consumers served by the Department of Infrastructure.

A feature of the Petroleum Funds Revolving Fund is the Petroleum Products Stabilization Fund, the limits of which have remained unchanged since 2005 while the cost of fuel has doubled, the volume of fuel sales has tripled. This proposed bill will amend the Revolving Funds Act to increase the Petroleum Products Stabilization Fund's maximum limit from $1 million to $3 million, which provides the department's budget with greater protection from program losses.

The increase in the maximum limit will support the Government of the Northwest Territories' ability to better manage events and inevitable changes in petroleum product costs and smooth changes to petroleum product prices for NWT communities.

It is important to note that the bill does not seek additional appropriations. It is simply intended to increase the capacity of the Stabilization Fund feature of the Revolving Fund.

The Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment has indicated their support for the passage of Bill 24. I thank the standing committee and the public for their work in the review of the bill.

This concludes my opening remarks regarding Bill 24. I'm prepared to answer questions if Members have any. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Would you like to bring witnesses into the Chamber.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Minister, please introduce your witnesses.

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Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, to your left, I have John Vandenberg who is the assistant deputy minister for programs and services with Department of Infrastructure. And to your right, Allison Scott, who is manager of policy and planning, also with the Department of Infrastructure.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, welcome. I will now open the floor to general comments on Bill 24. Does committee agree that there are no comments. We can proceed to a clause-by-clause review of the bill.

Committee, we will defer the bill number and title until after consideration of the clauses. Please turn to page 1 of the bill.

Clause 1, does the committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 2, does the committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, to the bill as a whole, does the committee agree that Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act is now ready for third reading?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act is now ready for third reading.

Does committee agree that this concludes our consideration of Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister, and thank you to your witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 437-19(2), Capital Estimates, 2022-2023. We will now consider the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. Committee, the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation is included in the capital estimates as an information item, and the totals are not voteable. We will continue to review these estimates as we have for the previously considered departments; however, we will not vote on the totals. If Members have comments or questions, they can be raised at the appropriate time.

Does the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation wish to bring witnesses into the Chamber?

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Yes, I would like to Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses to the Chamber.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister, will you please introduce your witnesses for the record.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. To the left is president, Ms. Eleanor Young. And to the right vice-president, Mr. Jim Martin.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, welcome. The committee has agreed to forego general comments. Does the committee agree to proceed to the detail in the tabled document?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation begins on page 67 with -- defer the corporation totals and review the estimates by activity summary beginning on page 68 with finance and infrastructure services with information items on page 69.

Are there any questions from Members? Who else wants to speak to this? I miss you guys if I don't get you all written down. All right, start with Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I understand that we fund the Housing Corporation differently, because they're an arm's-length corporation, through a grant through the Department of Finance. And then they pass the information, they give us a capital number, and they consistently give us $10,625,000. But I'll note that the revised estimates for last fiscal were actually $70 million, and the revised estimates for the year before that were actually $21 million. So that's good. That's good that they say they're going to spend $10 million, and then they spend a lot more on capital.

But can someone just explain to me why -- well, let me start with how do we get to this $10 million number; what is it actually budgeted as? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Housing.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll defer the question over to vice-president Jim Martin. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Housing Corporation goes through an annual business planning process, as with other GNWT departments, and in this process we look at a couple of factors. One is our revenues, our revenue sources, which is essentially comprised of GNWT funding, federal funding sources, as well as own-source revenues such as our rent. So we take our available revenues into consideration, and then we look at what our planned expenditures are going to be. And with those resources, we cover off both O and M as well as capital. So we take into consideration what we have available within our fiscal framework for capital investment.

So for 2022-2023, our business planning review has identified $10.6 million towards capital. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I get an explanation of what, I just want to fully understand this number, what capital is. So the budget for the Housing Corp is about $109 million, $10 million is for just capital. Does that mean this is only for new builds and anything to maintain units or bring them up to standard would be not capital? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. The capital is for the retrofits that are listed on page 69 of the document. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Okay, so capital is for retrofits, and I actually see no new builds here. Is that correct, that the Housing Corp is planning to build no new houses?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We did end up getting federal funding this year. We ended up with a co-investment and the CIRNAC funding so we're able to put 90 new builds on the ground this year. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe there's a disconnect, and I'm trying to understand this number that shows up repeatedly. So the new units, I believe, are reflected in the revised estimates. That's why it's $60 million more, because the feds gave us $60 million and we're going to put housing units on the ground. But for 2022-2023, right now is the Housing Corp planning to build no new units; is that what this is? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We do have some new builds that are coming this year that are funded through the Housing Corporation, and I just -- you know, in respect of the Member's questions that, you know, we do acquire -- we did acquire a lot of federal funding this year, and it's -- it kind of gets confusing as well too because we are putting RCMP units on the ground as well too. So I'll have Jim elaborate on the response. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, so as our Minister mentioned, the Housing Corporation does have a number of new construction projects underway this year. And they will be completed over the course of the next couple of years, mostly next year and this year, but there will be some in to 2023-2024. So there is certainly new construction activity going on outside this 2022-2023 capital plan that, as was noted, is focused on M and I investments for this year, given that we do have quite a sizable new construction delivery on at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just also want to understand, so every year the Housing Corp puts $10 million in here for M and I, you know, essentially retrofit and putting buildings up, which means it -- or is the other hundred -- are we just spending $100 million a year on O and M? There's $100 million a year to staff the Housing Corp and make sure the lights on being spent and only $10 million to actually upkeep units? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We have a number of programming that we do. We do have within the department besides putting the new builds and trying to support homeownership and emergency repairs. I'll have Jim elaborate on the response as well too. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, as the Minister mentioned, we do have a number of other investments supporting housing programs and service delivery. This plan before you today is focused solely on capital investments and, as was noted, these typically are major retrofits, as we have here, as well as new construction projects planned for a particular year. And that meets the accounting test as well in terms of the capital-type investments. But in terms of the O and M, you know, it is correct that we do have approximately $100 million of O and M typically planned for 2022-2023. And that includes minor M and I investments, for example. So these are the type of smaller repairs that our local housing organizations would support year to year for the Housing Corp. So there is definitely other investments taking place outside the capital plan. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Forgive me, I couldn't add up all the numbers here. How many in this fiscal -- sorry, I keep saying "this", I mean 2022-2023, the fiscal year we're approving, how many units are we planning to retrofit?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Just a second. I actually have that just in front of me. I'll just have Jim respond, sorry, thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. 176 units. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can the Minister maybe just put that in context? You know, it sounds great that we're retrofitting 176 units. Where does that get us at the end of -- you know, assuming this fiscal we do that, how many more units would we anticipate need major retrofits? Is there a backlog. Can I just get some context of what $10 million in retrofits actually gets us with regards to the giant backlog of maintenance we need. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. This number is able to touch on what needs to be done, but in total, I'm have Jim respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. The 176 units investment, it's actually a larger M and I investment than we typically do in a run of a year. You typically would see about half M and I projects and then half new construction projects. But as noted, typically -- as noted, we have a fair amount of new construction investment going on in the current year, and that's why we're accelerating much needed repair investments for 2022-2023.

And there certainly is a backlog with the Housing Corp. We're refining our numbers of course but, you know, our tabletop exercises indicate, you know, a $40 million annual infrastructure deficit, and that's combining both new construction, replacement requirements, as well as major retrofits to extend the life of our units, and that is a 20-year assessment number that I provided. And as I said, that is a tabletop number, and we'll continue to refine that number going forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I recognize that it's hard to just, you know, completely understand an infrastructure deficit. We all struggle to do that for the territory. But can I just get a bit more explanation on what, having a $40 million annual infrastructure deficit means. Does that mean if we actually wanted to maintain the current housing stock to a suitable standard, the Housing Corp would need another $40 million every single year? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will defer that answer to Jim, and it's just quite significant with the amount of assets that we do have on the ground and what we are able to repair and we're not able to repair. I'll have Jim respond. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, so ideally if we were able to do everything that we would like do in terms of capital investment, that is a number that we would like to invest every year to ensure the -- you know, the long-term sustainability of our assets and replace assets when we need to.

One thing to consider, though, is that right now, we do have on average about an 80 percent unit condition rating across the system, and that's a reflection of these M and I investments that are being made on a regular basis. So we are able to safely operate our units at this time, and the investments that we're making allow us to do that at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Madam Chair. I guess all the financial questions were already asked by my colleague. So --

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Sorry, man.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

So, that's good. So I'll just get to the nitty-gritty of -- I notice in Fort Providence here we got 21 units. They're major retrofits. Six are for HELP. I know they're home entry-level units. Oh, by the way, I know some contractors would be eating steak every night now, I guess, but. But the HELP program, the home entry level -- Homeownership Entry Level, I think that's the program, isn't that just new housing that was turned over to some clients, and if so, why are we doing major retrofits on them so suddenly? Masi.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that was one of the programs that would be a pathway to homeownership. Some of the units that we have in the communities that we didn't have qualified candidates to acquire those units, and some of them have been sitting vacant. So now we are going to be renovating them and either re-profiling them or putting them up for sale. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi for that. Yeah, I guess they are the ones that are just sitting around in our community boarded up for quite a number of years. I'm wondering if the major retrofits on some of these, because they're built on foundations that are totally enclosed. Anything that's enclosed and has moisture in there leads to mould. And I've seen
units, because I'd worked with Housing before, where we've had total mould on all the 2x10s, every one of them, and you have to replace everything. So I'm wondering if things like that are being considered and whether there's going to be some sort of a design change while you're doing the retrofits to allow air circulation and replacing of mould. There's a quite a bit of them units, even the basement units. Masi.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. For those further details, I'll turn the response to President Young. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. And so, yes, as we look at M and I for a unit, we're looking at what repairs are required based on the unit inspection, the condition rating to bring it up to a reasonable standard. Obviously to change out a foundation would be a very expensive undertaking in many houses, but if there is a way to mitigate any issues that are happening with the foundation system, I do believe in most of our new construction we have changed our foundation approach so that it does not lead to that kind of problem over the longer term. But for units that we've got up currently, if there is a way to mitigate the problem that is there through an M and I program, we would be looking at that. The M and I is really looking at trying to invest in that unit, extend the lifespan, and bring it back up to an acceptable condition rating. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Madam Chair. Mahsi for that brief explanation. The people moved out of most of these units or gave them up because the mould issues, and I stated that, you know, when you have a box and it's all totally enclosed in and it -- you know, it's a candidate for mould situations. So, you know, when you're going to fix them up without addressing that issue, it's going to be sitting empty for the rest of its life, you know what I mean? So you're going to have to include in your design, ways to open up that foundation so that it has ventilation to the floor and there's a good chance that you may have to replace the floor system. Not the foundation walls itself, but the floor systems. I'm just wondering how far you're going to be going with these because it would be a waste of money to not address, you know, the root of the problem and just fix it up and hopefully somebody will buy it or move in. Mahsi.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to the Member for the question as well too, because I see this issue throughout the Northwest Territories and in the smaller communities as well too, and looking for those expertise to construct and to work on our units, it's quite challenging but then as a Minister, I want to see all of these units brought up to standard and being able to be either transferred over to the clients or else look at homeownership. I'm not looking at a Band-Aid solution; I want these units to be constructed and repaired adequately. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Deh Cho.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Madam Chair. And mahsi to the Minister for that. I like her commitment there. But it's her commitment. I don't know if it'll actually happen, but I really hope that it will. I'll be watching these projects moving forward any ways to see that they're being done properly from the ground up.

You've got six - 15 units public housing. Is that the rental units, and what kind of retrofits are you planning for them? Mahsi.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. On this list, all of these units are public housing units and homeownership, and -- sorry, I didn't hear the last part of the question.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Deh Cho, can you just repeat.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Yeah, asking if these were -the public housing units, are they the rental units, and the -- and my question was what major retrofits are being conducted on these units. Mahsi.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for -- or sorry, Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just going to turn to my department. I don't know if we have that level of the technical information but if we don't, I can follow up with the Member. Vice-president Jim -- I mean, sorry, vice-president Martin. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, so as the Minister mentioned, these major retrofits are being conducted, delivered to support our public housing stock or existing units. In terms of the work, there's a range of M and I, modernization and improvement renovations, components that are being addressed, ranging from heating system improvements to foundation upgrades. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

No further questions, Madam Chair. Mahsi.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Madam Chair. I see here major -- major retrofit for Behchoko. It says it's going to be two units. So it's PH, so must be public housing. And then I see Whati, one unit. How come Gameti and Wekweeti are not on the list for any retrofit? Because right now, as we speak, I know Gameti are in crisis as well because I've been talking to the leadership over there, and they are in a -- we have a young man that's sleeping in a shack because there's no housing. And that is unacceptable at this time, because it's cold. It's like -- it's in the minus 30s. And so there's 22 units. And you did mention too that there's going to be 90 units coming in. Maybe you should answer the first one first, please.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I know that I was going to receive this -- this question, like, throughout the territory as well too because you know, through this budget, we're not able to acquire and renovate and repair all units throughout the Northwest Territories. Our budget is limited. But according to what we have on the ground and we're able to tackle those -- I guess that phase of units that are -- that are on this list right now. And looking at the stock and that -- with our 90-unit delivery, I don't have in front of me where these units are going to in Behchoko but I'll turn the -- that level of detail over to vice-president Martin. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Vice-president Martin.

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Martin

Okay, thank you, Madam Chair. So speaking to the investments here in Behchoko, well certainly those are MNI, modernization and improvement renovations, to 22 units. That's not the delivery of new units; that's just making sure that we stay on track with our renovations for those units to ensure they stay safe for operating purposes.

In terms of the other communities mentioned, Gameti and Wekweeti, Gameti right now has operating about 28 units and Wekweeti about eight. And in Gameti, the average unit condition rating for those units right now is at about 86 percent and for Wekweeti, it's 83 percent. And in terms of the average age of those units, they're fairly new units in those communities. Right now, in Gameti, the average age is about 16 years, and Wekweeti is about 18 years. So the units there right now, the Housing units are in relatively very good condition, and they -- they're relatively new.

So the Housing Corporation, in terms of allocating our limited resources for 2022-2023, we've prioritized other communities, such as Behchoko, at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Yes, in Gameti, there are five or six units that are sitting vacant, and I know there's few that needs to be retrofitted. So I don't know who he was talking to. I don't know if they did their inspections there to determine that, you know, there's no retrofit needed there. But I do know there is units that needs to be fixed.

And in Whati too as well, there's only one unit, and as we speak now, there are some family that I know that are living in a senior complex for many years. Some have raised -- I mean, they're still raising their kids in there, in the senior complex because there's no housing. And they are -- and there is a family living in the old log house. I'm sure ECE is paying rent for that where there's no essential services. So those are the things that's happening in the community -- in the communities that I'm aware of that my constituents are experiencing. So those are all unacceptable. It's like -- it's -- it's not good. So we do need help.

When I said Tlicho, we are in housing crisis, we are in housing crisis, and I notice that the Minister said Band-Aid solution, that she's, you know, not into that. But, well, I can tell you that last year or earlier this year, I had two Elders that went on the national TV. Well, after they went on national TV, they got the attention. All their houses was fixed or whatever that needed done was fixed, but it was a Band-Aid solution. So now the Band-Aid came off, now they're back to square one. Some of -- one of them, the pipe froze. There's nothing there that they can -- I mean, they don't have the services. They don't have the running water, the sewage. It's just -- the list goes on. And it's really sad. And this is my Elders, 74-year old Elder that I'm talking about that she was on the national news. And now, like -- yeah, she received the Band-Aid solution. And now the Band-Aid is off. We're back to square one. So those are the kinds of things. This is for the public unit. But it would be nice to see the home repair program budget. It would have been nice if it was part of this too as well, but I guess that's for the next time. But these are the things that are happening in the small communities. It's just -- it's really sad for me that I don't like it. That's why I am addressing housing issues for my Member's statement.

And Minister did say that there was 90-units. 90 units that's going in or to, in the NWT. Is that this fiscal year or next fiscal year? But you can answer all the question, all the stuff that I mentioned in here too as well.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Minister for Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the Member for all those questions. So, you know, in Behchoko right now, we've got four are repairs for this year. It's 2022, she's right. But then also for the -- Behchoko also will be getting an additional six units that will be part of the 90-unit delivery. Gameti will be receiving two. And Whati will be receiving two as well.

And then also looking at, like, the repairs and whatever like that, I would like to follow up with you as well and, you know, for -- for what is happening with these and with the Elders here and then go back to that -- go back to that file as well. And looking at what we do have planned for this year, the 90 units is what we're able to acquire from the federal government. We do have a limited budget that we're working with, and I was quite pleased to see what we've received because I looked at the years before and the investment in the Northwest Territories was not quite significant. So we've made some progress. And I know it doesn't seem like enough, and you know, we do have the 2300 units across the Northwest Territories. We're not able to repair and renovate every single one of them with the budget that we do have.

I'll have President Young elaborate on the response. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Do you want the floor back, Member for Monfwi?

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

One more before they answer because the time is running out. Another one too is that, okay, there's a stress, okay. When they're doing major retrofit in the communities, normally the Housing people, they come to the -- to the community members who are living the public unit, we're going to repair your house so you move to different unit. That's a -- they put a stress on the family in that area because do they have a housing unit waiting for them and, or, you know, they tell them that they're -- they reassure the people that you're going to move back to your unit after it's been fixed. Well, it never happened. I have an Elder that's homeless right now. You know, he's homeless. And I have another young family that live in that certain house that was being retrofit. So they put them in a duplex. So the plan for the young mother was that to purchase the house that she raised her family in. Now another new family came in. So this is what they're doing to the people, is that, okay, do the retrofit, but then the people wants to turn around and buy those units. And out of those 22 units, how many have those units are going to be purchased by the individual? It will be nice if they can transfer, or at a reasonable cost, you know, sell it to the people that are living in those units, because those are units that many of the family have raised their kids in. And if they're not going to give it to -- I mean, I know they are -- there are some programs that there are some tenants that were given the unit for one dollar. And it would be nice if they can continue with that practice. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And, you know, this just goes to our renewal as well too, and, you know, as -- you know, I come from a smaller community as well, and I have the same issues as your riding as well. And with these 22 units, I'd be interested to see if there's -- if we do have the tenants that are wanting to purchase those units, I'd like to work with the Member and see what opportunities that we may have and that could supported through the corporation in looking at a possible transfer to those tenants. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm happy that the Minister brought up the total number of public housing units, and I'm wondering of the total number of public housing units, how many units are currently sitting empty because the Housing Corporation does not have the O and M to fix them up? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll turn the response over to President Martin. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Vice-president? Vice-president Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. Based on the current assessment of our units, the Housing Corporation currently has 102 units that are under repair. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I think the question was sitting empty with no O and M to repair them.

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Martin

So at this time, Madam Chair, just to clarify, it's 102 units that are currently under repair. And at this time, for those immediate needs, the Housing Corporation has the resources to complete that work. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Okay, thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Are there any other units other than the 102 that are currently under repair that are sitting empty that might not be currently under repair, just to clarify. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have Vice-President Martin respond. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-President Martin.

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Martin

So thank you, Madam Chair. So at this time, the Housing Corporation is operating 2600 units, owned units, and of those owned units 102, as mentioned, are currently vacant and under repair. And at this time, the Housing Corporation is addressing those repairs as soon as possible so that they can be occupied right away. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Okay, thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, does the Housing Corporation have a list of how many units require repairs, major repairs or minor repairs, but are still occupied? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

So Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, we do keep a list of those major and minor repairs for public housing units. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Does the Minister have a number of how many units are currently needing repair that are occupied?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I can get back to the Member with that number. It's a lot of technical numbers with that. I just want to make sure that we're very clear that I'm able to provide that level of detail. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Okay, thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, can the Minister give us an idea of this list that they have, the very detailed list, does it have a cost associated with what it would take to repair all of those units? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think what the Member's wanting to understand is, you know, if we do have the repairs that are throughout the Northwest Territories, ultimately what is that number for us to repair all of those units as a whole. I'll have Vice-President Martin respond. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-President Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, the Housing Corporation does, each year, look at the unit condition of our assets and we do identify certainly areas where we would like to invest additional MNIs, like renovation upgrades to our existing units. We do go through that prioritization exercise every year. We cannot get at everything. But we do take into consideration the health and safety of the units and certainly continue to operate units in a safe condition, and then look for additional federal opportunities and other sources of funding that could help us accelerate those desired repairs. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Vice-President Martin. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So I didn't hear a dollar number in that, and so I'm wondering if a dollar number does exist for that. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Madam Chair, it's quite a huge number. It's $40 million. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So, no, I wanted to better understand that $40 million figure, if that had to do with simply repairs or if it also had to do with building new infrastructure. And so, no, thank you very much for -- the Housing Corporation for that, and I always feel very rude with my back to them so I'm sorry for that. But, no, I want -- so thank you very much for that clarification. And we did get a good news story this week from the NWT Housing Corporation, and that was an influx of $93 million to housing in the Northwest Territories. So kudos to the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation for getting their hands on those much-needed dollars, which obviously we can -- we can definitely use.

So of those $93 million, then, how much of that is going to retrofits of units in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have Vice-President Martin respond. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Vice-President Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, so in the current capital plan for this year, the Housing Corporation is delivering a capital plan of about $93 million. And within that capital plan, there's $50.5 million of federal dollars that has been provided to support with that delivery. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Mr. Martin. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, in the press release that we all got this week, it did identify that there was 213 units that will undergo major repairs, modernization over the next three years. One of the things that I'm noting is that in the document we're looking at right now, it does have 176 units of, I'm guessing, those 213 units, which would only leave 37 units left over. So is it the intent of the Housing Corporation to go over additional -- go after, sorry, additional federal dollars in future years in order to increase the number of units that they're providing retrofits for so that we can keep up with the units that require retrofits because to go from 176 here to 37 would see a lot of more units needing major repair in the future. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister of Housing.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that is correct. I'll have vice-president, or sorry, President Young respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair, and yes, that's actually work that the Housing Corporation is starting to position an application to Canada for at the moment, to do the assessment on the costs that we would need to put together for an application to do additional repairs, to supplement the work that we are currently doing. So we do intend to apply for some additional dollars for both construction as well as repair. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I think what we're really talking around here is core need in the Northwest Territories, and so I'm wondering if as part of this work, if we can expect to see a plan to pull the territory out of core need within a timeframe with budgets associated with it so that we have an actual plan of how we're going to fix the housing crisis in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I just needed -- you know, the extensive review that is happening right now within the corporation, looking at core need and looking at where we sit financially as well too, there is a lot going on. I'll have President Young elaborate. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair, and I think what we could do would be put together an idea of what that could look like, but it would be very subjective because so many of these applications are subject to approval under the various funding pots. So you could put together a plan of, you know, what could be done but it would be subject to an awful lot of approvals to be granted as part of that process. But we could give a general picture of what pulling out a core need might involve. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, it strikes me quite interesting that -- or it strikes me quite hard that one of the biggest uncertainties in the Northwest Territories is housing, even for the Housing Corporation, how to operate, how to build new houses, how to maintain existing ones. And so I'm wondering if there is a plan within the Housing Corporation, either within the GNWT or within the federal government, to create more certainty for the budgets going forward, because there is a huge amount of fluctuation and a huge amount of uncertainty within the corporation as to how they're going to not only maintain houses, build new ones, but also house the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. The corporation works very -- I want to say extensively with the Indigenous groups and with the smaller communities as well, and looking at businesses that may be able to help us bring and house the people in the Northwest Territories. But not only that, but also looking at the homeownership opportunities within the Northwest Territories. I know that core need really, it stands out there; it's strong. But there's the -- also the - the -- I guess I want to say the main -- to maintain and I guess the opportunity of, you know, how does the corporation end up looking at those -- the funding coming forward for these units and then also supplying and being able to operate and maintain and putting in new units on the ground. Looking at the core need throughout the Northwest Territories, I just -- you know, it varies throughout which region that you're actually living in, and it's -- for me, it becomes quite -- it's quite extensive. I'll have President Young elaborate. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Just in regards to time, I'm going to move on to the next. Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, when I look at all these retrofits, there are different values of dollars allocated to each community. You could have 23 units, say, out of Hay River, and it's only valued at a certain amount but you can have one unit that matches that. When you don't have the allocations by community within this detail, I find that very disturbing. I think that to be more accountable and transparent with these -- with the way it's listed here on the project listing, it has to be more -- there has to be more detail by community and the allocations and the total allocations with the retrofits. I think that's -- it's only fair to all of us who are representing communities and to see exactly where the money is going and the retrofits that are going to go to those communities by allocation. And I don't see that in this -- in the detail. So I don't know how we can correct these kind of things. I'm very much about numbers, always have been, and try to ask the questions so that accountability and transparency is upheld. And I don't see that here. So, like, I'd like to ask, I guess, Madam Chair, that I'd like to know the allocation for the 12 units out of Fort Smith.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Thank you. Minister Chinna.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have that detail in front of me that's allocated for the -- in the dollar amount for each of the communities. I can get back to the Member with those -- with that information. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Well, you know, how could you pass a capital budget with -- without the detail, especially when we're so compassionate about housing. You know, I have people out of Fort Smith who have been trying since -- for over a year now, since 2019, since 2020, July, to -- the same people are still trying to get into public housing and they still haven't got public housing, yet there's 12 units that are -- that are vacant in Fort Smith. There just seems to be a disconnect in gaps that are not being filled. I'm happy that we have an incredible board that has been put in place now. But the work still has to continue. This is winter. I've had a couple this week that had to go into a women's shelter because of housing, and these are people who are -- have mobility problems, and it's a major, major, major problem. And sometimes I feel that -- and every day almost, I send an email about these -- these four different cases that I've been dealing with for quite some time. And I feel that many times I'm being ignored. And as an MLA for constituents that I deeply care about, especially the impoverished people, and it's disturbing that I have to say these things during budget time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I hear the Member about, you know, about the allocations and the waitlist, and it's something that we -- we have throughout the Northwest Territories as well, and it just -- you know, the certain amount of units that we do have and the amount of waitlists, people on the waitlist, it just doesn't balance. We're always - you know, we need -- we need more housing. That's what we need. And to get these repairs done faster, more faster than later, I guess, and then whatever to making sure that we do have housing available in the smaller communities.

But I just want to go back to the dollar amount. I'm -- just my apologies as well, that my staff did have that -- that amount ready. So I just would like to have Vice-President Martin respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Vice-President Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. For the 12-unit retrofit project that we have in Fort Smith, the Housing Corporation has set aside $180,000 to support that work.

And just to speak to the reference to the numbers in the -- in the capital estimates, the Housing Corporation obviously follows the GNWT approach here, and these numbers are not included in this public document, and the primary reason for that would be it would compromise tendering outcomes potentially. So to supplement the briefing materials, we do prepare substantiation sheets for each project, which does detail the components of the investments as well as dollars. So thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Vice-President Martin. Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

So, Madam Chair, my next question is what is the total amount for -- I'm not sure if someone asked that question before, the total amount that we're using for retrofits in this budget. Is the -- is it the large capital projects or the small capital projects on those two lines, or is it the total?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. That's total. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

So that's what I'm trying to get at, okay. So 12 units at, say, $180,000, yet one unit somewhere else could be a million. You know, so when you're passing a budget without the detail, you can't do that, okay. So, because 12 units is only $180,000 out of all the -- out of all that's allocated for the retrofits. So we're comparing apples to oranges with each community.

And the other question that I want to ask while I'm at it is who decides which units are going to be retrofit? You know, is it the Housing Corporation, or is it someone else in project management, and how is clarity and who decides those things? Is it a neutral board? How is the accountability and transparency actually done; that's what I'd like to know. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have Vice-President Martin respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-President Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. As mentioned previously, the Housing Corporation does go through an annual business planning cycle, and as part of that, we do look at the current condition of all our assets each year. So what we do is we go through a prioritization exercise, and we do have good data to help us with this. We do look at the unit condition ratings for each of the units. We take into consideration the age, but we also take into consideration other factors such as direct feedback from, you know, our local housing organizations as well as our district offices in terms of informing our final investment. So it is very much a -- a group effort in terms of gathering good intel in making those prioritization decisions. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

I don't have any other questions.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess the first question is you mentioned there was 122 -- or 102 empty units that are being renovated. Can you tell me how many tenants had to be relocated and -- from those units. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. For -- I don't have that level of detail. I'll have President Young respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-president -- or no, sorry, President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair, and of the 102 units, counted in that would also be, for example, units that we currently have set aside for COVID so there aren't any people being displaced in that case. Or units that we have, for example, renovated after someone's moved out and before someone else moves in. So I would have to go back and get detail on how many of those are actually units where there are tenants who have been moved somewhere else while their unit's being done, but it would not be all of them. It would be quite a lesser amount because most of the time, we try to plan that work so that we displace tenants as little as possible and do it as we can work with the life cycle of -- or the cycle of the movement of tenants. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd ask the Minister as well, you know, if we have -- if tenants have to be relocated, who covers that cost, and are the tenants -- once the retrofit is done, are the tenants, the original tenants, allowed back in. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have President Young respond. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. So if there are costs such as disconnection of power, reconnection of power, the Housing Corporation would pick up costs such as that but other -- you know, other moving costs would be the tenant themselves. The LHO, I believe, would assist where possible but again, looking at each individual's circumstance -- I'm sorry, I think I missed the rest of the question. Sorry, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

I'll just move on here; I think I kind of got the gist of it there.

I guess the next one is that -- and I think the Member for Kam Lake alluded to this; I'm not sure if she got the answer. There are 102 units vacant and being renovated. Can you tell me how many units are just sitting empty that are not being renovated? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have Vice-President Martin respond as I don't -- you know, all units are not being constructed and renovated all at once, and I'll have him elaborate. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-President Martin.

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Martin

Okay, thank you, Madam Chair. So -- so as mentioned, there's 102 units that are under repair, that are vacant at this time.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. That's it? [Audio] Of all the units that are vacant, you said that there's 102 vacant units before, for Kam Lake, and that they're all been -- they're all allocated funding to repair but what -- I think there's a confusion that there's empty units in the Northwest Territories that haven't been fixed that are Housing Corporation that are sitting there not being allocated dollars to repair them. So do you have that number, if I'm -- is that clear, Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

There's 102 vacant units being renovated, based on what's in this document. Beyond that, are there units that aren't in this document that are vacant and just sitting there in communities? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have President Young respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

President Young.

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Young

So thank you, Madam Chair. Of the 102 units, approximately 23 of those units are examples like the COVID units, units where we have completed a project but the units have not yet been occupied. So there's a total of 23 there. The remaining units are units that are either currently under repair or will be under repair and as Jim said, we've either got the money, or we'll be dealing with the budget for that internally and don't need any additional funding to deal with the 102 units that we've identified currently as vacant units. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

I don't -- I didn't get the answer. So I guess what I'm -- what I'm going to assume here is that out of the 20 some hundred units that Housing Corporation has, there's only 102 units that are sitting empty right now.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that is correct.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. And out of those 102 units, are any of them slated for sale to clients; and if so, how many? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have President Young respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, yes, in addition to the 102, there are 71 units that are either slated for sale or to be assessed whether sale or demolition is the appropriate option. So that is in addition to the hundred units that we are repairing or planning to occupy. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So it's interesting to hear that you might sell them or you might tear them down so it's -- I'm not sure what kind of shape they're in. And I guess that kind of leads up to my -- my next question here, is of those units, of the stock that we have, how many are deemed beyond repair and -- yeah, how many are deemed beyond repair as of today? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have Vice-President Martin respond. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-President Martin.

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Martin

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. It's approximately half and half in that number that's identified as for sale and for demo. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. And the units that are deemed unrepairable, is there a dollar value that you look at to ascertain, I guess, whether they are beyond repair? What's the criteria and how do you -- how do you come at that -- arrive at that? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Oh thank you, Madam Chair. There is a term for it. I'll have Vice-President Martin answer the question. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-President Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. So when we do assess the condition of the unit, we do take into consideration the level of investment that would be required to bring that unit back into service, and typically if it -- our guideline essentially is if it would cost us more than 70 percent of replacement value to renovate that units, then we would be looking at replacing and surplusing that unit. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess the next question is the ones that will be sold to -- or the ones that are -- that you said were either going to be deemed not -- the ones that couldn't be occupied and were going to be deemed, I guess, slated for demolition but then at the same time you said that possibly that same unit, it may be sold off. So if you're going to sell a unit that's, you know, borderline, do you also look at doing repairs to that unit prior to selling it to a client? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. If this becomes an interest of -- I'm just going to use the example, if this is an interest of the Indigenous groups and it came forward and there's six units that they are interested in, then I would like to enter into some kind of agreement. If there's a possibility that they are able to take over these units, they want to take the hundred percent full responsibility. As a corporation, I would like to introduce them over to the federal funding that we do have and also support them through that process. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. How does I guess the concerns such as asbestos and mould play into deeming the facility or the unit unusable? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. There's an extensive assessment that is done prior to any of the units being transferred over to, whether it be another government or an individual or for sale. I'll have vice -- Vice-President Martin elaborate on the response. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. When we do sell units, we ensure that it there's full disclosure of any hazardous materials to any interested buyer. So we make sure that that disclosure is there. If there is any apparent, you know, hazardous material, you know, we would certainly deal with that. But primarily, it's -- if you have a situation where -- where that material is undisturbed and it's safe for occupancy, then we would -- we would disclose the potential existence of asbestos depending on the age of the unit. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Is there any point where you would -- when you deem the unit unusable or if you did sell it, would you just look at selling the unit itself and keeping the land? Has that been done in the past? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Madam Chair, yes.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to get back to the ratings, I guess the criteria used to -- to deem the unit that it should be tore down. Can you tell me -- yeah, give me some idea of what that criteria is. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister, would you commitment to providing that information to the Member, and we'll move on. Member for Nunakput.

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Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. Some of the -- we thank you for the 17 units that I have going into my communities, and the retrofits for Sachs Harbour and Tuktoyaktuk and Ulu, Ulukhaktok, but where's Paulatuk in this? I really am having a tough time because with the community of Paulatuk I have 18 people on the waiting list, and we have 18 on the waiting list. I have five more that were taken off because of CERB. One was put back on. So I got still four more people trying to get their CERB so they could get back on the list, and that's going to be almost 25 people waiting in Paulatuk. And some of the units my riding has, you know, the Weber units built in the 1960s and '70s. We do have some newer units in the community but the units that we're -- they are looking at renovating, they're long past due in the mould. And it's unsafe because, like right now I have an Elder that the Minister met when we were on tour, and that's her -- that was her problem, she got sick because of mould, and it wasn't good.

I have a lot of young families in the community. Again, like I told in our thing that we have a family I'll take -- like, a young family, I'll take a room. You got a four-bedroom, you got four little miniature families and you got mom and dad sleeping on the couch. That's not right. I get six percent of the total budget in my riding for Nunakput, and that's probably about one or -- one percent of housing out of this whole budget. It's -- you know, it's almost time, like you -- the stresses that it's put on families during COVID-19 times, the stress is -- it's not healthy. Mental health is out the door, and the stress on the whole community, on leadership, and it just -- it's really -- it's critical. We're in a position where we -- we have to get more retrofits coming into the community. So can the Minister tell me where's Paulatuk on this list for retrofits coming this summer? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just trying to add here really quickly. We don't have any repairs for Paulatuk. We just have -- I have here listed 15 -- 17 repairs in Nunakput. But I also have -- just a second, I just want to make sure I get these right so I don't misinterpret. Four, eight -- ten units going into Nunakput, and those are going to be the communities, two for Ulu, four for Tuk, and four for Paulatuk. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Nunakput.

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Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair, we heard it here first. That's good news. I'm thankful for that. It's -- anything helps. And I think where we're -- where we're at, I guess, with the -- with everything that's going on with the COVID-19 and with the -- I worry about my riding in regards to mental health and stuff like that. It's really making tough situations for families. I got people living in tent frames. Just like the Member from Behchoko. So I'm really -- I'm at a kind of a loss. That's why I went and I got -- I have -- I hired a firm to do a housing strategy for my riding, a ten-year housing strategy, trying to do it on our own with the federal government with CIRNAC to try to get funding to work with our -- our government to try to provide houses for the people I represent. And I always want to -- like, I talked about this before but now we're right at the two yard line, basically to kick it over, is to bring private business in to build the units. And will the Minister or the government be willing to put 25 - 25 percent down on units? They'll come and they'll build them in the long-term lease on it, as long as it was all aboveboard and with all the contracts and stuff, because these are companies from down south. We don't have market housing in my riding, nothing. Everything is -- people even living in smokehouses. Not right. So I want to know if will the Minister and our government be willing to work together for getting the housing strategy for Nunakput and getting private companies to come in and do the work on their behalf to get those houses in there sooner? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to the Member, and I'm very passionate and I did go into his riding this -- this year, and, you know, I was able to see firsthand the housing conditions in his riding. I just wanted to say that, you know, Paulatuk was the second in the territory to complete their housing plan. I would like to work with your riding and with the leadership as well too and really look at those federal applications going forward. You know, we did -- the government did commit 5 million over three years to have those applications completed and to acquire some of that federal money. So I'd like to put that commitment forward to the -- to the Member, to work with his leadership and with himself. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Nunakput.

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Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

That's all. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. And thanks to the MLA from Nunakput for giving me his time.

I'm trying to reconcile that the news release that went out a couple days ago from Housing Corp that says there's an extra $93 million for a number of units versus what I'm looking at here in the capital estimates. So I guess this $93 million is federal money, or a good part of it is. Why is it not shown here as a federal contribution; why is this kind of like off the books somehow. You know, we get other federal money and it's showed as money in and then money expended, but it doesn't look this way for the Housing Corp so maybe someone can explain that to me. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have President Young elaborate on that response. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. President Young.

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Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I do believe, and Vice-President Martin may correct me, that it does have do with the corporate structure and the way that we do accounting for federal contributions, third party contributions like that, and they're recorded under fund 3 instead of fund 2 for capital, I believe. But if possible, if I could defer to Vice-President Martin who is the financial expert on the way that this accounting is done. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. So as mentioned, we have $50.5 million of federal dollars supporting our $93, $94 million of capital delivery this year. We've received $25.5 million of that in March 2021, right at the end of the fiscal year last year, which was reflected in our carryovers, that carryover number that we referred to earlier, right at the end of the year.

So the Housing Corporation, we obviously prepare our annual audited financial statements each year, and that was recognized as revenue in 2021. It's still part of our capital delivery, though. It's in our work in progress, and we're delivering those projects this year into next year.

We also received an additional $25 million. We just finalized that agreement in August this year. And that funding is going to be recognized as revenue in the Housing Corp this year for -- in our audited financial statements. And that $50.5 million right now is assigned to capital projects that will be fully delivered by 2023-2024. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake -- or Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, if I thought I was confused before about the Housing Corporation, that one really -- any ways, look, you guys got to find a different way to present this stuff; sorry. If it takes a schedule or a note or something, you got to find a better way to present the financial information 'cause I think -- I think it would benefit yourselves. You might get fewer questions in Committee of the Whole. You might get fewer Member's statements on the floor, oral questions for your Minister. You guys got to find a better way to present this. Sorry. And with all due respect, I know I'm supposed to be addressing you, Madam Chair, but I think it would be much more helpful if the Housing Corp could find a much better way to present this than what I see here.

And I'm just going to go on to the next item. I think I heard that there's a 20-year -- some sort of 20-year assessment or capital plan that the Housing Corp has developed. Can we please get a copy of that? And I guess that's a question for the Minister. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I can provide that to the Member. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Min -- Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

If you want to call me a Minister, I'll take it. Thanks, Madam Chair.

The -- so next question, is there any calculation of, like, deferred maintenance for the Housing Corp, and what is that figure and what does it mean? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have Vice-President Martin respond. Thank you.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-President Martin.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Martin

Thank you, Madam Chair. The deferred maintenance figure is in reference to that infrastructure deficit figure that we alluded to earlier, which takes into account the investment needed to complete scheduled M and I major renovations over the next 20-year outlook. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3261

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. So what is that amount, please? Thank you.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3261

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have Vice-President Martin respond. Thank you.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3261

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Vice-President Martin.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 3261

Martin

That figure could potentially be up to $1 billion. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3261

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Vice-President Martin. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 3261

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I don't if I should laugh or cry.

Okay, clearly we're not spending enough on housing. I think I made the point. I really look forward to seeing this 20-year capital plan that's going to cost a billion dollars.

So I think I heard a commitment, though, as well to the Member for Kam Lake that there was going to be some kind of a -- an outline or a rough plan for getting our housing out of core need. Is that what I heard? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3261

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Housing Corporation.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Madam Chair, can the Member repeat his question. Sorry.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3261

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Frame Lake.

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Page 3262

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Is the Minister going to provide us with a plan to get our housing out of core need, and when would -- can we expect that plan? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3262

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We are just under a renewal right now that we're implementing and we're working with going forward. I'll have President Young respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3262

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. President Young.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 3262

Young

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, as stated earlier, we can put that information together. But there would be the question of the funding sources because obviously there are a lot of questions there in terms of security of funding. And we've mentioned in some of the renewal conversations that sustainability security is one of the big reasons we're wanting to look at this conversation over the longer term. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3262

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 3262

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, look, I get that there's probably issues with sustainability and finding the money, but if we don't have a plan to get our housing out of core need, you can't formulate -- we can't formulate an ask to Ottawa, and we don't have a plan to deliver adequate affordable, and I think it's suitable, housing for our residents. That's the importance of getting this plan together. I've been asking for it now for six years. I know we had the On Level Ground report in the last Assembly that was getting closer to it. But if you don't -- if we don't have that plan, you can't go to Ottawa and say this is what we need to get us in a comparable situation to other jurisdictions. And that's the case you got to make to Ottawa. I just can't emphasize this strongly enough to the Minister that that's the plan you need to get together to get the money out of Ottawa so that you can go and say, we deserve the same level of housing as other parts of Canada, and we need the money to do it. I think that's all I have to say, Madam Chair.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3262

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Committee, seeing that there are no further people on my list or questions, I remind the committee that the estimates for the Northwest Territories are included in the Capital Estimates as information items only. The committee will not be voting on the activity total. Committee, please return to the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation summary page on 67. There's any further questions or comments? Seeing none, does the committee agree that consideration of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation is now complete?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 3262

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I move that the chair rise and report progress.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3262

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Just wait. Thank you, committee, and thank you, Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Member O'Reilly is ...

Now, Member - Member -- you may go now, Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I move that the chair rise and report progress.

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3262

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

There's a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. I will now rise and report progress.

---Carried

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3262

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Report of Committee of the Whole, may I please have the report. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 3262

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Committee Report 18-19(2), Committee Report 19-19(2), Bill 24, and Tabled Document 437-19(2), and would like to report progress and that Committee Report 18-19(2) and Committee Report 19-19(2) are concluded and that Bill 24 is ready for third reading. And Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be conferred with.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 3262

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Do we have a seconder? Member for Great Slave. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? Motion is carried. ---Carried

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 3262

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Third reading of bills. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Range Lake, that Bill 31, an Act to Amend the Pharmacy Act be read for the third time. And Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded vote. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

The question has been called. The Minister has requested a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3263

Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

The Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Thebacha. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Nunakput. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Hay River South. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The Member for Nahendeh. The Member for Sahtu. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Hay River North.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3263

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

All those opposed, please rise. All those abstaining, please rise.

The results of the recorded votes, 17 in favour, zero opposed, zero abstentions. The motion is carried. Bill 31 has had third reading.

---Carried

---Applause

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3263

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Third reading of bills. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Range Lake,that Bill 32, an Act to Amend the Northern Employees Benefits Services Pension Plan Act, be read for the third time. And, Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded vote.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. The Minister has requested a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3263

Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Thebacha. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Nunakput. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Nahendeh. The Member for Sahtu. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Hay River North. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Hay River South. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3263

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

All those opposed, please rise. All those abstaining, please rise.

The results of the recorded vote, 17 in favour, zero opposed, zero abstentions. The motion is carried. Bill 32 has had second -- or third reading. Sorry.

---Carried

Third reading of bills. Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife South, that Bill 33, National Indigenous Peoples Day Act, be read for the third time. And Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Honourable Premier. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. The Premier's requested a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3264

Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Thebacha. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Nunakput. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Hay River North. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The Member for Nahendeh. The Member for Sahtu. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Hay River North.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3264

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

All those opposed, please rise. All those abstaining, please rise.

The results of the recorded vote, 17 in favour, zero opposed, zero abstentions. The motion is carried. Bill 33 has had third reading.

---Carried

---Applause

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3264

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Third reading of bills. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Range Lake, that Bill 42, Supplementary Appropriation Act (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, be read for the third time. Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. The Minister's requested a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3264

Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Thebacha. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Nunakput. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Hay River South. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The Member for Nahendeh. The Member for Sahtu. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Hay River North.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3264

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

All those opposed, please rise. All those abstaining, please rise. Thank you.

The results of the recorded vote, 17 in favour, zero opposed, zero abstentions. The motion is carried. Bill 42 has had third reading.

---Carried

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3264

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Third reading of bills. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Range Lake, that Bill 43, Supplementary Appropriations Act (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2021-2022, be read for the third time. Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. The Minister's requested a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3264

Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Thebacha. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Nunakput. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Hay River South. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The Member for Nahendeh. The Member for Sahtu. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Hay River North.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3264

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

All those opposed, please rise. All those abstaining, please rise.

The results of the recorded vote, 17 in favour, zero opposed, zero abstentions. The motion is carried. Bill 43 has had third reading.

---Carried

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3264

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Third reading of bills. Minister of Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Range Lake, that Bill 44, Supplementary Appropriation Act (Operations Expenditures and Borrowing Authorization), No. 4, 2020-2021, be read for the third time. Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. The Minister's requested a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3265

Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Thebacha. The Member for Nunakput. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Hay River South. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The Member for Nahendeh. The Member for Sahtu. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Hay River North.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3265

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

All those opposed, please rise.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3265

Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

The Member for Frame Lake.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3265

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

All those abstaining, please rise.

The results of the recorded vote, 16 in favour, 1 opposed, zero abstentions. The motion is carried. Bill 44 has had third reading.

---Carried

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3265

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3265

Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Orders of the day for Thursday, December 2nd, 2021, 1:30 p.m.

Recorded Vote
Third Reading Of Bills

Page 3265

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Third reading of bills. Third reading of bills. Mister Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

Page 3265

Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Orders of the day for Thursday, December 2nd, 2021, 1:30 p.m.

  1. Prayer
  2. Ministers' Statements
  3. Members' Statements
  4. Returns to Oral Questions
  • Oral Question 846-19(2), Addictions, Aftercare and Mental Health Supports: Date of Question - December 1, 2021
  1. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  2. Acknowledgements
  3. Oral questions
  4. Written questions
  5. Return to Written questions
  6. Replies to Commissioner's address
  7. Petitions
  8. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
  9. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
  10. Tabling of Documents
  11. Notices of Motion
  12. Motions
  13. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
  14. First Reading of bills
  • Bill 41, Justice Administration Statutes
  1. Second Reading of Bills
  2. Consideration of Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
  • Bill 23, An Act to Amend the Public Utlities Act
  • Bill 29, Resource Royalty Information Disclosure Statute Amendment Act
  • Bill 30, An Act to Amend the Aurora College Act
  • Committee Report 20-19(2), Standing Committee on Social Development Report on the Review of Bill 30: An Act to Amend the Aurora College Act
  • Committee Report 21-19(2), Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on the Government of the Northwest Territories Approach to the Mining Regime Fiscal Review
  • Tabled Document 437-19(2), Capital Estimates 2022-2023
  1. Report of Committee of the Whole
  2. Third Reading of Bills
  • Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act
  1. Orders of the Day

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

Page 3266

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House is adjourned until Thursday, December 2nd, 2021, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 6:11 p.m.