Debates of Dec. 8th, 2021

This is page numbers 3325 - 3360 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Release of the GNWT Draft Action Plan in Response to the Draft Final Report of the National Inquiry on Missing and Murdered IndigenouS WOMEN AND GIRLS

Ministers Absent From The House

Member's Statement on Inuvik Long-Term Care Facility

Student Outcomes

Housing

United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People

Priorities of the 19th Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly

Regional and Community Decision-Making

Municipal Funding Gap

Priorities of the 19th Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly

Mental Health Impacts of COVID-19

Eulogy for Archie Kaglik

Mental Health Impacts of COVID‐19

Regional and Community Decision‐Making

District Education Authorities

United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People

Emergency Solutions

Municipal Funding Gap

Housing

Future of Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre

Tabled Document 529-19(2): Changing the Relationship: Draft Action Plan in Response to the Calls for Justice on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, Girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ People Tabled Document 530-19(2): Grants and Contributions Results Report 2020-2021 Tabled Document 531-19(2): Northern Mineral Sector Investment Study Final Report, August 2021 Tabled Document 532-19(2): Public Accounts 2020-2021 - Sections I, II, III and IV

Tabled Document 533-19(2): Northwest Territories on the Land Collaborative 2021 Report Tabled Document 534-19(2): What We Heard: 2021 Anti-Poverty Roundtable

Tabled Document 535-19(2): Motion 4-83(2): Testing of Cruise Missile in Canada - Excerpts from Hansard dated September 2, 1983 Tabled Document 536-19(2): Motion 15-86(1): Cruise Missile Testing Opposition - Excerpts from Hansard dated March 5, 1986 Tabled Document 537-19(2): Motion 11-89(2): Low Level Flights in Northwest Territories - Excerpts from Hansard dated November 1, 1989 Tabled Document 538-19(2): Motion 20-12(5): Condemnation of Continuation of Cruise Missile Testing - Excerpts from Hansard dated March 2, 1994

Bill 45: Appropriation Act (Infrastructure Expenditures) 2022-2023

Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Committee Report 22-19(2): Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on the Government of the Northwest Territories Approach to the Mining Fiscal Regime - Analysis of Performance of Mining Fiscal Regime

Committee Report 23-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Review of the 2018-19 and 2019-20 Public Accounts - Public-Private Partnership (P3) Classification for Old Stanton Refurbishment Project

Committee Report 23-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Review of the 2018-19 and 2019-20 Public Accounts - Reporting of Contingent Liabilities from Claims and Litigation

Committee Report 23-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Review of the 2018-19 and 2019-20 Public Accounts - Review of Fiscal Responsibility Policy

Committee Report 23-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Review of the 2018-19 and 2019-20 Public Accounts -Enhancement of Financial Statement Discussion and Analysis Section

Committee Report 23-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Review of the 2018-19 and 2019-20 Public Accounts - User-Friendly and Accessible Public Accounts

Committee Report 23-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Review of the 2018-19 and 2019-20 Public Accounts - Government Response to Recommendations

Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 45: Appropriation Act (Infrastructure Expenditures) 2022-2023

Recorded Vote

Bill 30: An Act to Amend the Aurora College Act

Recorded Vote

Orders Of The Day

Committee Motion 184-19(2): Committee Report 22-19(2): Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on the Government of the Northwest Territories Approach to the Mining Fiscal Regime - Government Response to Recommendations, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3348

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Motion is in order. To the motion?

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, committee. Do you agree that you have concluded consideration of Committee Report 21-19(2): Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on Government of the Northwest Territories Approach to the Mining Regime Fiscal Review?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We've concluded consideration of Committee Report 21-19(2): Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment Report on Government of the Northwest Territories Approach to the Mining Fiscal Regime Review. Thank you.

Committee, we've agreed to consider Committee Report 23-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Review of the 2018-19 and 2019-20 Public Accounts. I will go to the chair of the Standing Committee on Government Operations for any opening comments. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Madam Chair, the committee's report was read into the record on December 2nd, 2021. I do not have any additional substantive comments to add at this time. Individual Members may have comments on the report. I'd like to thank committee, the department, and the auditor general for their work on this report. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I will now open the floor to general comments on Committee Report 23-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 2018-19 and 2019-20 Public Accounts. Seeing no comments, Member for Yellowknife North.

Committee Motion 184-19(2): Committee Report 23-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Review of the 2018-19 and 2019-20 Public Accounts - Public-Private Partnership (P3) Classification for Old Stanton Refurbishment Project, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

December 8th, 2021

Page 3348

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends the Department of Finance classify the project to refurbish Old Stanton as a public private partnership and report on it accordingly. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Motion is in order. To the motion? Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would ask that, you know, even if the government disagrees with this motion, they could try to explain what was going on. The auditor general told us that the Old Stanton was a P3, and the GNWT accountants disagreed. We had a battle of the experts going on in committee. And I don't know public accounting standards well enough, or the new P3 standards well enough, but to me when the Auditor General of Canada tells you something is away, according to the public accounts, you listen to them. So I would like to hear a bit more of a detailed response to this motion. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion? Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. So this project's actually in my riding, and it's something -- so I've been here six years and I've never really understood how we owned the old hospital and then it was given to somebody else to renovate and then we leased the whole thing back at a cost, and then we get it back at the end of the period when it's been rented to us for 30 years. I've just never really understood that arrangement. It just boggles my mind. And I don't understand why the government didn't keep the building, renovate it, and then we used it for long-term care and extended care, which is I guess the proposed use. I just never understood this. And I'm not sure I would -- if it was up to me, it wouldn't happen again. I'll just leave it that way. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion?

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Member for Yellowknife North.

Committee Motion 186-19(2): Committee Report 23-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Review of the 2018-19 and 2019-20 Public Accounts - Reporting of Contingent Liabilities from Claims and Litigation, Carried
Consideration Of Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 3349

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the comptroller general enhance reporting in the public accounts of contingent liabilities arising from claims and litigation; and, further specifically,

A. Include a breakdown of claim amounts by category; and,

B. Identify individual claims above a certain threshold.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Motion is in order. To the motion? Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I support this motion. It was duly noted by committee that public litigation has gone up quite a bit for the GNWT over the course of the last five years. But we in committee have no way of knowing what is driving this. We're holding the government accountable, or really advocating for change for things that are really truly systemic. And so I support this motion and appreciate the conversation that committee had in regards to this. Thank you.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion? Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. So there's an interesting graph in the report by the committee, and it shows that, you know, from 2010-11, to 2015-16, the contingent liability amount in the public accounts was single digit numbers in the millions of dollars, and then it leapfrogged to $67 million, and now it's at $107 million for 2019-20. And I guess I have my own suspicions of what's driving this, but I think it's partly that the very complex P3 arrangements that our government is getting into. These are like a thousand pages of documents for each project. And I think it just leaves lots of room for this kind of stuff to happen. So I think we need to get to the root of this and try to better manage this moving forward. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion? Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I think having some public reporting on this is just a small part. We're being sued for $107 million. I have absolutely no idea. There is no public information about who or why that is. If we all of a sudden have $107 million show up in our budget, none of us are going to be happy. I suspect that a lot of this is from P3 legacy projects and contract disputes. I know there's some various class actions out there. I'm guessing really, based on news headlines, as to why we might all of a sudden owe $107 million.

Furthermore, I think the GNWT has absolutely refused to ever engage in any sort of transparency about settling litigation. I think they are overusing NDAs. I think in settlement agreements, they are refusing to disclose them. And it's not until maybe sometimes it's reported in either the public accounts or a budget that we catch that oh, we paid millions of dollars; oh, that we messed up a construction project and we had to settle for millions of dollars.

All of the information I have about this is currently found in the news, and none of it is available public anywhere. I believe our government needs to look at this and needs to take a transparent approach to when we settle litigation, why did it occur and publicly report on it. I think they are hiding behind it's before the courts or some fear of the rules, which is unrealistic and not being done in other jurisdictions. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

To the motion?

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

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The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Member for Yellowknife North.

Debates of Dec. 8th, 2021

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