Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Energy efficiency, as I said, it is a priority when renovating and also administering our units. I can look at that, the wood-pellet boiler system, but then I need to keep in mind that, if we are able to provide this service, then which region would be able to be adequately providing the material. I would like to look at that and justify which regions this would probably work more adequately in. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member.

Yes. Mahsi, Madam Chair. Perhaps if that can be looked into because maybe there is a different system rather than using the 240-volt or the 110 fuel appliances for hot-water heating, the on-demand hot-water heating system. I don't know if that is tied to propane. It's just a contraption that hooks to a wall that provides your on-demand hot-water heating, but whether that system would work also with a wood-pellet boiler. That would probably see significant decrease in maybe the power bill amongst other things there. That is more of a comment in that area.

I am looking at page 374, your apprentices. I think, over a year ago, you said you were "gung ho" on getting apprentices into the communities. I don't see anything in my community yet. There probably aren't any new ones in other communities. I had concern with the Housing Corporation in my community not having qualified heating specialists on staff, and I think that goes against some of the boiler and gas safety aspects of it because you don't have anybody to look after these units in the community. There are big liability issues there, too, so I'm wondering if you would look at, because I believe I sent you a request, to possibly ticket the couple of maintainers who have been there for over 15 years and don't have a ticket. A journeyman housing maintainer, you're basically a jack of all trades. That's pretty much what you want under the housing umbrella. The ticket is not good once you're out of the housing umbrella. You can't start your own business. It's used within the housing umbrella, and it was probably a cost-effective way of maintaining your units, especially your heating appliances. I am wondering if we could really have a look at that and also the oil heat technician position. That is required in most of our communities. That leads to apprenticeship positions.

When I worked with housing and I saw housing in the past and says they're the best place to train people because of the number of housing stock in the communities, it's the best training ground, and we never, ever had that. I always looked at Public Works and Services, and they had one of the best programs in the Northwest Territories in training every trade: electrician, plumbers, carpenters, what-have-you. I couldn't understand at that time why housing couldn't. There could have been a lot of reasons. I am just wondering what your thoughts are on there, and if you would consider actions in this regard. Mahsi.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Member, for your comment. I hear you about the apprentices, but the reality is: I travel throughout the Northwest Territories, and I have asked about the housing maintainer program; I have asked about apprentices. I found that it was very hard to recruit at the community level. Looking at the housing maintainer program, trying to get very creative in how we could get these apprentices ticketed is also a priority because if we don't have the apprentices, and we don't have that skill trade, our units are deteriorating because they are not being properly maintained. I do recognize we have an aging work force at the local community level. Within the department, we are looking at increasing that interest at the community level. For an example, in my riding, we are looking for an oil boiler mechanic, and they went through several casual employment people that they were wanting to invest in. The interest and educational needs at that level, it's very hard to find, to be honest. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member.

Mahsi, Madam Chair. Maybe I will just make a comment about that. Maybe we waited too long. There weren't too many OBMs out in the field. Like I say, you probably waited too long, or maybe you're too specific to an OBM. You can get a plumber gas fitter. That is an even better ticket to have. There are other ways you can do that. There are other trades, like the plumber gas fitter trade. You can get that position, and it will hopefully be enough to train and work with the Aurora College oil heat technician program to see how you can get these going. They will be a good source of information or the people who have taken the course, how many are even around the Northwest Territories? It's not good to have an attitude where you just give up. You have to really work at this and help the people of the Northwest Territories in the communities. We have to start training our people. Housing, as I say, is the best avenue for this initiative. I really ask you to reconsider and really look into this. Mahsi.

Thank you, Member. Minister, did you have any comments?

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Member, for your comment. Absolutely. I want to just really reiterate that, at this level, from what I have seen so far, it is very hard to find the commitment, but it does not stop the Housing Corporation from still advocating for this position, creating employment in smaller communities, and looking at the trades and apprenticeship, as well. Looking back at this, I would bring this back to my department to really emphasize looking at the recruitments for apprenticeship for the local housing authorities and local housing organizations. Mahsi.

Thank you. Did you have any further questions, Mr. Bonnetrouge?

Mahsi, Madam Chair. I look forward to your findings and really encourage you to really consider this because you stated yourself we have an aging workforce. We have lots of young people coming up behind who are really looking forward to having a specific journeyman ticket, and we are not providing those opportunities. Like I say, the Housing Corporation is the best play field for this to happen. I have stated the case of Public Works and Services; I don't know if any of your employees have ever gone through those programs. You get those tickets, and you're set for life. More of a comment than anything. I have no more questions, Madam Chair. Mahsi.

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Listening to comments from the Minister there, I agree with her. It's tough to find people who are qualified. It's tough to find people who are willing to go out and work. However, that doesn't mean that we stop doing that. We have to find innovative ways to ensure that residents in public housing have access to workers to fix or address any issues they have with their homes.

I just want to give you an example of what can be done, and it's a personal one. I was working at a place, and there was an issue with the furnace. Of course, everybody was telling me it was this and that, the thermostat. They always want to blame thermostat. Anyways, I looked at it, and I thought, "Geez. How am I going to fix this?" I don't really know much about furnaces. I kind of know what they look like inside and all that. I thought, "Oh, I know this guy who lives in Kelowna. He's a gas fitter. I'm going to call him." I call him, and he says, "Did you do this? Did you check the chimney? Make sure there's no snow in there." "Yeah, I did that." He says, "There's a little light on there, a red one and a yellow one." He says, "Is the red one on steady?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "Well, that's good. How about the yellow?" "No, nothing." He said, "Well, it's probably the flame sensor. You got to pull out the whole guts, just clean off the thermocouple, put it back in." I did that, and it worked fine.

Maybe that's something we can do is look at having somebody who is qualified. They don't have to be in the community, but if there is somebody there who can assist that person over the phone, there are ways to do it. That's what I am hoping that your department will start looking at, is innovative ways. I don't really care what happened in the past, all the things that went wrong and that. I'm just looking into the future, and I want to see that we are doing things right.

The use of housing maintainers, there are some around Hay River that have their own businesses just because they have that designation, and they'll do some carpentry; they'll do a little bit of plumbing and those types of things, as well. I was in one community here not long ago, and I don't think housing has anybody in there. They said, "If you happen to be talking to housing, can you ask them if they can maybe look at allowing us to change our own lightbulbs or change our own door locks, instead of having to bring somebody from Fort Simpson or from wherever it might be?"

Those are little things to us, but they are important things to people in the communities. With that, I would like to ask the Minister: what innovative ways, or any innovation, have they looked at to make things easier and streamline things by utilizing people in the community? I know that there are a lot of people in the communities, a lot of workers, who have general knowledge. We don't give them the benefit of the doubt, and we don't utilize them like we should. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. You know what? I'm very passionate about this portfolio, so I've partnered up with some of the communities throughout the territory with our Community Initiative Program. I have recognized that we do have skills at the community level and we do have people who are not ticketed, but you send them out there, you want them to renovate your home, it's going to be done, there we go. I've opened up that opportunity on the trips that I have made throughout the Northwest Territories. The last community I can remember just off the top of my head was Jean Marie River. They had come and approached us and they said, "We need to get our furnaces maintained. We need them to be cleaned. We have people in the community who can do it." And I said, "Let's partner up and get together, get an agreement signed so they can program-deliver on our behalf."

The other one is also the Tlicho; the same thing, as well. Instead of flying people in and out of the Tlicho communities and driving in from Yellowknife, I have initiated having them program-deliver on our behalf, too, recognizing we do have those skills at the community level, but we just don't have the tickets. I don't want the tickets to burden what we actually can partner up with at the community level. Mahsi.

Thank you. Member.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can the Minister tell me, and I'm not sure, I don't really see it in this section, but the cost of contractors to go into the communities to provide services, especially in the small ones. In the larger communities, journeymen and tradespeople are accessible, but I suspect that the cost to travel into the communities and possibly the waiting time, those are things that I would like to know. I don't expect her to answer them here. How is the department spending its money addressing those small issues that have to be dealt with in a timely manner and, with respect to time, how long does it take, say, somebody from Fort Simpson to go into Wrigley or go into Jean Marie to actually do the work? Is it within an hour, two hours, two day? If I could see some of that information, and not just for those communities, but for communities up and down the valley that may not have access to housing people in the community, or journeymen, as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Member for the comment because this is quite a significant problem and issue throughout the territory, finding emergency repairs to be done immediately. Some of the communities are fly-in communities where we would have to pay for the charters to come in, the journeypeople to come in and get the work done. This is why I really emphasize the Community Initiative Program, so we can enter into those partnerships. I don't have those numbers in front of me, but it's quite significant because we don't have the tradespeople at the ground level. I just want to use an example of Nunakput. We don't have somebody in Tuktoyaktuk who is going to be available to run into the community and get the job done. We would have to go through to Inuvik. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just looking at maintenance here, where it states, "funding for LHOs to undertake demand and preventative maintenance activities to support the provision of good-quality housing." I'm just wondering how effective that is because we continually hear of units that are without water, they might be without power for a while, leaking fuel tanks, and on and on. How does the department deal with those types of issues, to make sure that we actually good-quality housing? Because, like I said, I continually hear that we don't have good-quality housing. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. This would be our housing maintainers that would be first on the site, and depending on what qualified skill that we do have at the community level, we will use the LHOs and LHAs first before looking for additional support. Thank you, Madam Chair.