Thank you, Madam Chair. So Madam Chair, that is dependant on what is happening with royalties. And if I might suggest with respect to the mathematics of it and the projections, that I'd send it over to Mr. Courtoreille.
Debates of March 10th, 2022
This is page numbers 3947 - 4016 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.
Topics
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Courtoreille
Thank you, Madam Chair. And yes, the Member's absolutely right. There's a fair amount of variability in this budget line item. For 2021-2022, we're expecting that number to increase to $5.6 million. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Thanks, Madam Chair. I think I'm asleep at the wheel. Which number's being increased to $5.6 million?
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Courtoreille
Thank you, Madam Chair. So that would be the actual contribution for 2021-2022.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Okay, thanks. So it's another -- sorry, I'm trying to do adding on the way. So it's going to be not the $7.6 million but an additional 5.6 on top of that, or is it actually just going to get replaced by 5.6? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Courtoreille
Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair, and I could have been a little bit more clearer with my response. The 7.6 is the -- is the standard budget line item that we have for this item. Since the budget was printed, though, we have now learned what the actual amount will be for 2021-2022, and that's $5.6 million total. So it will replace the 7.6. Thank you.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Madam Chair, yeah, I was trying to reconcile it. I thought I heard the words increase, and 5.6 is not greater than 7.6, so okay, got it.
I just want to go up to the Tlicho All-Season Road. So now our annual payments are going to be $14 million a year for this because it was done as a P3. How many years will this $14 million be required. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chair. This is a 25-year agreement. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Okay, thanks. So how do we, you know, really kind of assess these projects, because, you know, that's now -- this is the biggest part of an increase, as far as I can see, in the Department of Finance budget. Maybe I'm missing something, but. This starts to eat into our ability to spend money on other programs and services. And it's a capital project essentially, and now we're paying somebody else to operate it more cheaply than apparently what we could do. So how does this really impact our ability to spend money on programs and services with this big $14 million hit for the next 25 years? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3974
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3975
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chair. So I mean, Madam Chair, this is one of those times where the totality of the government budget does come into play here. You know, there -- had the entire project been done as a typical or a normal -- or rather just a typical infrastructure project funded entirely by the government and not in the P3 process, well then there would have been a greater demand and draw from the capital budget. And for a project of this size, a requirement for significant amount of debt to be taken upon -- taken on in order to build the project. So by undertaking a P3 project, it spreads out the impacts over the course of multiple years and shares that risk between the private sector and us so that we're able to undertake that project now and not have to wait for one period of time. And that's where the benefits come in, Madam Chair.
So now the other question around how P3 projects, mindful of time, are evaluated. I know there's been -- there was at one time a fairly detailed briefing about the Stanton P3 but if there is interest, we'd certainly be happy to do a briefing to the committee on how P3, the P3 process is evaluated. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3975
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3975
Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Yeah, I think I know enough about P3s that I don't support them, especially when they're large ones like this because I just think that they're not transparent and we're mortgaging our future. But, you know, we can have that debate.
Why is the Stanton project not listed here as a P3? Like, why does the Tlicho All-Season Road show up in Department of Finance rather than in the Department of Infrastructure? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3975
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3975
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe that one would have shown up under Health and Social Services. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3975
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3975
Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Okay, thanks. That's what I said. The issue, though, is why are some P3s in Department of Finance and another P3 shows up in the HSS budget? Why are they not all together in one place? Maybe it's an accounting wizardry thing, I don't know, but why are -- like, we got Mackenzie Valley Fibre Link. That's a P3. Tlicho All-Season Road, that's a P3. And then another P3 is parachuted in to HSS. So why are some showing up there and not here? Thanks, Madam Chair.