Thank you, Madam Chair. No, Madam Chair, this isn't -- that's not really the relationship here. This is with respect to the values. Again, as I'm saying, it's related to the amount that comes in under actuals as compared to what is budgeted. We wound up spending less on insurance -- or I'm sorry, on interest than what was expected, again due to the good fortune of having low rates. But the budgeted value assumes something that will be higher based on the long end depending on what those rates are. Madam Chair, I can certainly perhaps direct it to the deputy minister, but I'm mindful of time. So I'll pause if there's another clarification, then I'll -- I'll send it there. Thanks.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I'm just going to leave it at there.

I do want to turn, though, to accounting policies if I could, and I guess this is the section of the budget where this kind of stuff is actually set for how we do accounting and so on.

So in our entire budget for 2022-2023, there's not one reduction anywhere, and I'm actually looking at the main estimates that were now made available to the public. All of the schedules have been made available to the public as well. And there's not one reduction using the -- I guess the Department of Finance classifications anywhere in the budget. Why are we not making use of that category? Everything just kind of gets lumped under FMB approved adjustments or budget reallocations. Can I get an explanation, please? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I would want to invite the deputy minister and then possibly Mr. Courtoreille. Again, I want to be mindful there's six minutes. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's how we're figuring -- it's ensuring that we're providing information about the total spending of the government. For example, there's a lot of sunsets. So programs that had certain dollars attached to them, and if those dollars that were restricted for a certain purpose come to an end, then they are sunseted, and they may or may not see those dollars come back into that program or into that department. More often than not, there are other cost pressures that a department might be facing. So when the matter comes to the Financial Management Board and there's a recognition that, you know, for example -- I mean, it's the example that's come up so I'm going to go ahead and use it. It's the example of OROGO where a request was made to review the functioning of that department. That review was done. It was determined that there was more allocated there than what was necessary. At the same time, the department knows it has year over year cost pressures where they're unable to meet targets or they're having to fund from within and so immediately we're able to say well, we know that there's money that we're going to take away from OROGO but we can add it to areas that have been traditionally underfunded.

So there's travel reductions in this budget, Madam Chair. There's -- you know, then that's -- you're seeing that show up under every single department. It -- it comes in as, you know, an FMB adjustment because it was something directed by the Financial Management Board, and it's an adjustment that happened outside of the mains estimates process, and so it shows up as an FMB reduction. And -- yeah, thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, I've been through the -- the schedules very carefully. There's not one reduction anywhere in the entire budget. So, you know, for somebody like me or for the -- someone from the public who looks at this, I just don't think that that's a very transparent or accurate way of reflecting what happened. You know, even the travel reductions are shown as budget -- sorry, other FMB approved adjustments. Like, that's just not an accurate way to display this for public or -- I don't know how accountants do it but that's not the way I would do it.

But can the Minister undertake to look at this and try to find a way to make this a little bit more transparent as part of our efforts to -- towards open government and so on to -- if there is a -- if there's a reduction that's been made, it should actually be shown as a reduction. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

I -- yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. So I'm -- again, the example here that's kind of coming to mind is the travel reductions and the -- the fact that that wasn't part of the main estimates process. It was agreed to -- you know, Madam Chair, I -- maybe I'll pause. Mindful of time. Let me send this over to Mr. Courtoreille who is sort of our resident accountant and see if he can provide some explanations as to how this was put together. Thanks.

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks. Yeah, I appreciate that. And if there's a way to show this stuff more accurately in the future, that's what I'm looking for. But on the issue of OROGO, it's clearly shown in the schedules as a budget reallocation and that's I just think a totally inaccurate way to treat and present a reduction in their budget. To characterize it as a budget reallocation just shows that -- if anybody looks at this and they just think, wow, independent -- they're not an independent regulator, they're just part of the Department of Justice. And they get -- their budget can be reduced, shuffled around, reallocated to other functions within the Department of Justice. It's not independent. It's just an arm of the Department of Justice. And I'm just going to leave it at that. I just think that that is a totally nontransparent, inaccurate presentation of that specific reduction. And I just -- I -- you know, I think it's disgraceful, quite frankly. So I'll leave it at that. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, I listened today and, you know, I was trying to be very patient and I wasn't going to say anything but I just feel that -- it's not very often I agree with the Member on my left here but, you know, accountability and transparency is top priority for me and that's all I've lived for all my life, and figures are my thing. So with that, I just -- the first question that I want to -- is the internal audit bureau.

The internal audit bureau is the oversight for the office of -- in Finance in general and the office of the controller general. So I -- and that is $1,189,000, which is, you know, looking after all the financial information throughout this whole government, and if there is any fraud or anything that's done, the funds there -- it's not much of an oversight when you -- when the funds are -- when you look at all the other things that go in -- on these columns. And to me, the internal audit bureau is probably one of the most important lines on this -- on the -- on the program detail. And I know I asked a question in the mains about the -- the relationship with the internal audit bureau and how they -- if there was fraud given and happened and they investigated and they had to go to the RCMP and the RCMP always say that they -- they don't have enough staff for white collar crime and forensics. So I just want to know how that is dealt with, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, this work is not done exclusively by the internal audit bureau. There is also the internal audit committee, which has five deputy ministers that sit on it. So there is a fair bit of effort across the GNWT that is involved. But in terms of the actual, you know, work that -- that does happen, I can say that the experience that -- that's been relayed to me on behalf of the comptroller general's office is that they have a good relationship in dealing with the RCMP. They also will, if there's a concern around there being assets that are put -- GNWT assets that are in jeopardy or allegations of corruption or other forms of fraud, then there's consultation done with labour relations, with Department of Justice legal counsel, and certainly, obviously, individual departments as may be necessary. Then, of course, contacting the RCMP, as I've said, has been thus far positive for our -- every time that that's come up. There's, you know -- [Audio] -- associated, a process involved, Madam Chair. And -- but it's not -- you know, it's not this line item alone that is -- that is responsible for that. It's a much more whole-of-government approach when it comes to dealing with fraud or the loss -- a potential loss of assets. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Madam Chair, the internal audit committee of five deputy ministers is part of the oversight for internal fraud within the Government of the Northwest Territories. Do you think that is appropriate and arm's length and neutral? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I just want to make sure we're not talking about different things. I mean, there's the internal audit bureau and internal audit committee, which is looking at ensuring the, you know, risk management and functionality and, you know, propriety of processes within the Government of the Northwest Territories. And then there's, you know, protection of -- of -- against corruption, fraud, and difficulty with assets. You know, so -- yeah, I mean, there's different things that are -- that are potentially going on here. And, yeah, I -- Madam Chair, the internal audit bureau does offer -- operate, you know, on its own and independently. The comptroller general's office, these are folks that have professional obligations as professional accountants, just as lawyers would have professional obligations under the Law Society. So I know there is work being done right now at the committee level to evaluate its composition, to include potentially an external member. But even independent of that, Madam Chair, the folks that are on that committee and the folks that work in the internal audit bureau are doing so at a high standard of professionalism and in keeping with their own professional obligations that they have to maintain their standards. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

So Madam Chair, so in the last, say, ten years, I'd like to know the -- how many cases have been reported and how many were expedited? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.