Thank you. Committee, we have information items on page 160 to 162. Are there any questions from Members on these -- can you just let me know how many of you want to ask questions on this? Okay. Member for Frame Lake.
Debates of March 10th, 2022
This is page numbers 3947 - 4016 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.
Topics
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
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Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Thanks, Madam Chair. So on the Heritage Fund on page 160, the legislation requires a ten-year review, and I think we're coming up to that pretty quickly. And that the ten-year review requires consideration of how to gather public input on potential expenditures from the Heritage Fund, independent oversight and management of the fund, special majority requirements for amendments to the act or transfers of the money and any other amendments that might be considered.
So I just would like to know what, if any, preparation the Department of Finance has done for the Heritage Fund Act review. And I guess I'm mindful of this because we contracted out the Heritage Fund management to a private bank. We don't do anything with it. It's basically just a bank account. So what, if any, preparation has the department done for this ten-year review? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chair. So Madam Chair, it was shifted over to an independent bank to manage rather than being managed in house. You know, and not -- not to make -- not to be trite about it, but it -- you know, managing this size of a fund by the Department of Finance, that's not necessarily our expertise. Those in banking do better than me trying to manage my own investments, for example. So -- and it has done better. It has done better in terms of its return since being put out to a bank.
And in terms of the -- the review that is to take place, I believe that that will be at the first session after August 1st, 2022, if I'm not mistaken. I'll certainly correct myself at -- if I am. So that's -- it's coming but it's not here yet. The preparations are, you know -- I think the department's aware of it, but nothing formally has -- has come through yet. Obviously, we'll -- we'll put that information out as that date draws closer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. I think the other thing that changed, as I recall, was the regulations under the -- the Heritage Fund Act would change to allow for a slightly more, small "L", liberal investment regime -- or criteria, because the fund was actually losing money against inflation, if you can believe that or not. And that was when rates were pretty low. But yeah, look, I was involved in making submissions around this when it was first set up ten years ago or more -- 12 years ago I think, and people at that time wanted some kind of public governance of it, some investment criteria, some accountability, and that's not what we got. So that's just a heads up to the Minister, that I expect that those will be main themes coming out of the -- into the ten-year review to try to get some greater accountability and oversight of these funds as they grow, as small as they are, you know, we're I guess up to, what, $48 million after about 300 million -- 300 billion, I think, where dollars worth of diamonds have left the Northwest Territories. So it's not a great return or not a great nest egg to leave our future generations. But the ten year review's coming up quick. Thanks, Madam Chair. That's all I got.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
The Chair Lesa Semmler
Okay, thank you. So I didn't hear any questions in there. Okay. Are there any further questions under the information items on page 160 to 162?
Seeing none. Thank you, Members. Please return now to the departmental summary found on page 137, and revenue summary pages -- there's revenue information on 138. Questions? Member for Yellowknife North.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have one question. This is where that $20 million in interest shows up again, which I believe is the total interest we're paying on our $1.6 or 7 billion in debt. Can I just get an updated figure on what our total debt servicing amount is? Thank you.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Madam Chair, I have a round number in my head, but let me see if the deputy minister has the exact number available, please.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
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Mackay
Thank you, Madam Chair. So the debt servicing is -- is around $20 million, as the Minister mentioned, that's at 1.6 percent of the total budget, which is within our -- within the -- that's in compliance with the fiscal responsibility policy. As for the exact number, other than percent, I don't -- does Mr. Courtoreille have the number? No. Okay.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, maybe I'm wrong, I thought our debt servicing was $50 million, but I could be wrong. Or no, maybe that's the cap. Anyways, could I just get a clarification.
So this line where it says "interest" is not true interest on the debt as we would interest and principal, it would be the total amount we are paying each year of debt servicing? Is this essentially the exact same figure as debt servicing even though it's called interest? Thank you.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Madam Chair, let me direct that over to Mr. Courtoreille, please.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
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Courtoreille
Thank you, Madam Chair. No, this line item is interest only. Thank you.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chair. Maybe can I just get a commitment to get back what the debt servicing number is, because I believe the financial responsibility policy is a limit on debt servicing. So, you know, it says $20 million interest plus what we're paying the principal amount as, or however that works in public accounting terms, if we could get that figure back. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3979
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
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Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South
Madam Chair, I had a feeling that we weren't comparing the same things. We'll provide that breakdown; it's not a problem.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
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The Chair Lesa Semmler
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North. Nothing? Okay. Are there any further questions on the departmental summary? Member for Frame Lake.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
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Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake
Thanks, Madam Chair. I just wanted to ask about the corporate income tax line here. You know, last year, we were going to pay corporations $8.4 million for something, and then all of a sudden -- or by the year end, they're owing us $24.5 million. How does that happen? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Committee Motion 201-19(2): Tabled Document 561-19(2): Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Industry, Tourism and Investment - Deferral of Department, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 10th
Page 3980