Thank you. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. So if someone uses up their seniors home heating subsidy, they can apply to the income assistance program. And what looks at is what are your needs and what is your ability to pay for those needs. And the income assistance program will make up the difference. So, you know, there are individuals who, you know, while they might, you know, feel a financial crunch, they still might not qualify for income assistance. So I'm -- you know, I'm definitely sympathetic to that.

Part of this review of the -- not just the income assistance program but also the home heating subsidy program, which, you know, is reviewed on a -- every two years, is to determine if we can -- if there's a better way to distribute these funds. So believe me, I've talked to the department about just going back to the -- you know, the volume measurement, but given where we are with this review, we've decided to hold off until we come to a final decision on a program. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister -- or sorry, Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And, yeah, I appreciate that you're looking at a bigger picture and revamp. But I just want to stress that anything that's easier for residents, you know, is probably the way to go and in the long run will probably save more of our time and your time for us coming and harassing you for exemptions or help.

I wanted to -- speaking of which, I'm going to move on to student financial assistance next, and I've had conversation with the Minister here.

And I know that -- okay, first of all -- sorry, I'll ask of the 1,128 students mentioned, what's the break down of that -- those students that are being helped in Yellowknife versus in regional centres versus small communities, and if that's not available right now, I can get that information at a later date. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. I think Mr. MacDonald may have that information.

Thank you. Deputy minister MacDonald.

Thank you. Member for frame -- sorry, Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And now that you're saying that, it sounds like that might have been the answer you had a question earlier ago but I always -- not sure if I'm listening to everybody else's questions all the time.

I guess around that, when I look at 65 percent being in Yellowknife, we also have most of our top earners etcetera living in Yellowknife, and I'm well aware of dual income homes where together two employees working for the GNWT are making over $300,000 a year or even 250, and yet their children are still qualifying for student financial assistance. I get that in the past, this has been used as a hiring mechanism or a way to attract professionals to our territory. However, I think we're sort of well beyond that time of, you know, everyone's coming north to work their two years and make their money and leave and in reality is a terrible model for us in a recruitment type situation.

So I guess what -- where I'm going with this is that I would like to see some sort of income testing begin and implemented within the GNWT and, you know, it doesn't have to be a really low number or -- you know, it can just be that those top, you know, senior -- senior bureaucrats for the GNWT are not having their children's education subsidized. It's kind of appalling to me that we have such a terrible, you know -- or a terrible outcome in our lower grades and then yet we're sending off, you know, people who are only first and second generation Yellowknifers to school outside of the territory. It's actually I think pretty disturbing. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister -- or thank you, Member. Sorry. Minister.

Thank you. So, yes, the program, it is pretty generous compared to other programs in Canada but the hitch is that you have to have gone to school in the Northwest Territories and the more -- longer you've attended school in the territory, the more you're eligible for. And, you know, I -- I don't like the idea of, you know, saddling students with debt because they are trying to start their careers. But that being said, you know, the Member has raised this with me a number of times and after the last time I did start thinking about how we might adjust the program. You know, we have small communities where there's perhaps no employment, no opportunities for students to save up money, and does the program, the way it is, disadvantage those students compared to other students whose parents might be, you know, doing well and they can find lucrative summer employment. So I've asked the department to look at ways to possibly adjust how we fund students based on need so that we are removing barriers for, you know, potential students who need those barriers removed, and spreading the wealth out differently. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, that actually brings up another point then is because then all those same students get funneled into GNWT summer jobs at -- you know, I can't tell you the number of -- of people's names I recognize coming across my desk when I was a Minister and asking what does that degree have to do with the job that that student is in, and honestly, it was one of the largest discussions we had as COVID hit us was what were we going to do for our summer students. And to me, that was a bit of a -- again, a disconnect on, well, sorry but, you know, privileged Yellowknifers who have, you know, good, steady incomes and their parents don't need -- didn't need those summer jobs when other people, I think, could have used that support. So I think there's a real -- I look at it as there's been a group of people in this town that have really set themselves and their children up for -- for quite a lucrative and bright future at the expense of the Indigenous and local people to this territory. So I'm going to continue to pursue this with the Minister. And I know that, you know, he may be the one receiving my comments right now but it's not, you know, his doing that that has set itself up that way.

Yeah, and I guess -- I guess here, I've never been one where coming from a private sector I felt that a guaranteed universal income was something that I -- I supported. However, as I've gone through COVID and I've watched and learned about how our income assistance program does work and the hoops that we're making residents jump through to get it, I just want to throw support that I do think if we're going to give people this money regardless, and I know the Minister's working towards it, let's just cut out the paperwork and give it to them and then that takes some of the shame away as well. If you're automatically qualifying for it, you know, you're not saying well, I went with my hand out for welfare. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister of ECE.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And, you know, I'm also here to fight the establishment as the MLA is, so that's why I appreciate her comments. And yeah, and I appreciate the comments about income assistance program or, you know, moving towards something maybe not a guaranteed-based income but something that is a little more reliable, a little bit more steady, something that could help people get over that welfare wall as they call it. So that is the goal. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I too want to question the seniors home heating subsidy. So if we use up this budget or -- and the people in the homes are short of fuel for heat or any other one, it could be propane, it could be other things, what is the -- you want them to go to income assistance programs? A lot of seniors are extremely proud and having them go to another level in income security is -- I don't know if that's acceptable because, you know, it's -- first of all, they don't want to do that, I'm sure. I mean, why don't we have a bit of an increase in that seniors home heating subsidy in the beginning so they wouldn't have to do that. That's a question for the Minister. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister of ECE.

Thank you. And that's exactly why we are looking at ways to sort of consolidate this program, get away from that stigma of, you know, applying for income assistance or applying for welfare. So that's exactly the type of changes that I'm looking to make. And there were increases to this program in the life of this Assembly. They were modest increases but nonetheless they did respond to some of those changes. And for many people, this is, you know, what they need. Not everyone is, you know, uses up the max and then needs to go to income assistance. It's a small number of people who actually need to take that step. But even for those people, we do want to ensure that they are treated with dignity, and so we are looking at how we can do that. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

The income assistance program is increased by $520,000. Is that enough, Madam Chair, with the increases of fuel, food? Everything else -- everything is increased. So we're just keeping the people in this income bracket, and most of the people are usually Indigenous, and are low income and, you know, some of them have large families, and I'm just wondering if we're even meeting the threshold of making sure that the kids are fed and housed and are able to attend school. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister of ECE.

Thank you. And so that's what this is intended for, to meet people's basic needs. So the very bare minimum. No one is getting rich or no one is even saving money on income assistance. But it's a legislated program so it means if someone applies for it and we've already maxed out our budget, we don't say no to them. We say okay, you qualify, you know, according to the legislation. And then we come back later in the year for a supplementary estimate, as happens almost every single year. And so as a result, there was an increase in 2021 I believe, so just this current fiscal year, of $4 million to the program because it was consistently overspent. And over, you know, the last number of years, this program -- the money that's spent on this program has grown quite substantially, and I -- you know, if you look back at the numbers from ten years ago, we are -- I can't recall -- for $10 or $15 million more than that, it's been a significant amount of money we've invested in this program, and it just keeps growing. Thank you.