This is page numbers 5875 - 5942 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was indigenous.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. My questions are for the Minister of Finance on the recent review that seems to have been carried out around the fiscal responsibility policy. So can the Minister outline how this review was carried out and who was consulted? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the fiscal policy review was something that is an internal policy looking at a way of evaluating what we do as a government and how we manage our budgets, how we design our budgets. It was completed by the fiscal policy division as the primary lead within the Department of Finance but also with input from some of the other departments that look at this type of work and that do this type of work, such as the comptroller general's office, the management board secretariat. We certainly did look at counterparts across other governments to see what they might do when their departments of finance are managing and developing their own internal budgets, and it certainly was very helpful to take that opportunity and have a fairly detailed engagement with standing committee. And as mentioned earlier, it was a very thorough response that was received back.

I'd also note we did check in with the two credit rating agencies that would look at how we are doing to manage our budgets, and that's how this was developed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. It never fails to amaze me sometimes the things I can learn in oral questions, that the credit rating agencies were consulted but -- okay, that's all good.

In my statement, I noted that the fiscal responsibility policy has failed to keep our debt from growing at greater than inflation, that there are no consequences for noncompliance. Can the Minister tell us what changes will be made to the fiscal responsibility policy? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the fiscal responsibility policy is really only one tool among many, not the least of which is the process that we are currently engaged in here, of examining our budgets publicly as part of this Assembly. Mr. Speaker, I would note that our current rate of budget growth is the smallest that it's been in a very long time, possibly in over a decade. So certainly there are things that are working within the Department of Finance right now to manage that debt growth. But notwithstanding that, the review was done to try to make it even better. There's a number of changes, Mr. Speaker, not the least of which, something that comes up frequently, we're proposing a cushion of $120 million under the federal borrowing limit so that there's not going to be this constant question of when are we going to hit the limit. We know there's going to be that cushion there so that that gives us the room every year to ensure that if there's something like a flood that there's always the room available to us.

Another one I want to highlight, Mr. Speaker, is with respect to publishing two things: An ongoing moving average to show where we are in terms of where we are in fiscal responsibility policy, what kind of surplus we need depending on what's happening on the capital side. And with that, Mr. Speaker, in the fall, when we do the capital plans, that's when we'll actually be putting out an anticipated amount that's required for the fiscal responsibility policy and for the operating surplus to meet the capital plan. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. Of course, as a Regular MLA, I was asking for that kind of information in the last Assembly, but glad that we're going to finally get this. So another concern, though, that I've outlined is the growth in P3 debt servicing that eats into our ability to pay for programs and services. This is a growing problem as this government takes on more and more P3 projects with little to no analysis or disclosure of the impact this has had on our operating budget.

So can the Minister tell us whether there will be greater analysis and disclosure of P3 servicing costs and impacts on programs and services as part of a revised fiscal responsibility policy? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the P3 policy is separate; it wasn't part of the review that was done in looking at the fiscal responsibility policy so that it simply wasn't part of it. It's a different policy all together.

Mr. Speaker, at this point in time there's not any active work happening with respect to a P3. So this is not something that is -- you know, there's not an active concern around growing numbers of P3 projects. What we do have are the -- some projects that are ongoing that where there are operational expenses now because rather than investing huge amounts of sums at the capital side to build a project through a traditional process, instead, that -- the budgeting for these projects, such as Stanton, such as the Mackenzie Valley fibre line, they were extended over the life of the asset; they were made into operation costs over the course of existing projects. At the end of the day, though, Mr. Speaker, all that money is GNWT money, whether it's on the capital budget, whether it's on the operations budget. So those P3 projects that are still on the books are there on a different side than what they would have been otherwise. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. Of course I'm not talking about the P3 policy; I'm talking about the fiscal responsibility policy where debt servicing should come into play, whether it's P3 debt as well, and it should include that. And although the Minister doesn't think there's active concern, I've been raising this in the House for seven years. So I'm very concerned that the Minister and the department appear to be ready to make changes to this policy without bothering to engage the public, and the Minister herself spoke about how they engaged the credit rating agencies but are -- you know, are we actually going to talk to the public? So we hold all kinds of public engagements for such mundane things as renaming the Stanton Legacy building or a survey on liquor and cannabis products. But can the Minister tell us whether there will be any public engagement on the review of the fiscal responsibility policy, and if not, why? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I've had the pleasure of overseeing a number of different policies that have been reviewed and revised in the life of this Assembly. And I've actually had the opportunity to go back and say, you know, when do we go out and engage public and when do we take different types of approaches? And, Mr. Speaker, it depends upon the impact of the policy on members of the public. The greater the impact, the greater the anticipated interests, such as in the naming of a building which may well involve wanting to name it after an individual or after a particular location. Those occasions certainly do see a wider and more concerted effort to do engagement. The affirmative action policy would be one that I am currently involved in right now where there is extensive public in-person engagements taking place. The fiscal responsibility policy, on the other hand, Mr. Speaker, it really is something that looks at government trying to ensure its own processes and its own budgeting is done in a responsible fashion.

As far as input on to budgets, Mr. Speaker, there are the budget dialogues that I've done every year; there is the process of the Committee of the Whole; there is the process of business plans. All of those are opportunities where members of the public, advocacy organizations, municipal governments, send in their comments on the budget, what we should spend on, how we should spend it. The budgeting dialogues process, again how we should budget, where we should manage, where the balances should be. So all of those processes continue to exist. But the fiscal responsibility policy in terms of how to structure the fiscal strategy, that's an internal looking process and that's why we've kept it to being more narrow focus. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Order. Oral questions. Member for Monfwi.

Question 1471-19(2): Outstanding Mortgages
Oral Questions

March 27th, 2023

Page 5882

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, indeed, we do need to do a better job at administering our housing programs and supporting our residents. And with that in mind, Mr. Speaker, if we give people a home and they continue to build arrears and are unable to pay their mortgage, that means our program is not working.

Can the Minister tell this House how they are working with residents who currently have a mortgage with Housing NWT to ensure they are able to pay that mortgage while having resources for other things, such as food? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Minister responsible for Housing NWT.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Member for raising this question as well too, because right now Housing NWT is reviewing. We have 268 mortgages throughout the Northwest Territories. This was a program that was available to the Northwest Territories through CMHC about over 20 years ago. At that time, we did come out with the subsidized mortgages throughout the Northwest Territories. We have run into some issues where we have not had clients pay consistently throughout the territories. But we do enter into payment plans, and we do work with each of the clients considering their financial changes and trying to make them become -- and help support them to become successful homeowners. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have mortgages that we know people cannot pay. We have a collection policy that shows our ability to forgive residents who are in this situation.

Can the Minister explain how Housing NWT administers its collection policy and how often people are assessed and forgiven from their debts based on their ability to pay those back, those debts? Thank you.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the lifetime of this government, the Housing NWT has forgiven $8 million in housing mortgage arrears throughout the Northwest Territories, and they consist of several different financial situations that the client may be entering into. And we try to do our best to try to work with the client prior to them receiving the eviction notices. That is the absolute last resort. And if that -- that we do have public housing that is available to the tenants as well if they're not able to afford their homeownership program.

We also do work with our collections within Housing NWT, but we also do have to submit to FMB as well too with the financial analysis as to why we are going to be submitting a forgiveness and a write-off of those debts. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the moment, Housing NWT is owed almost $5 million in mortgage payment. The current process of refinancing and owning a house through Housing NWT is proving not sustainable. Can the Minister commit to forgiving the current outstanding mortgage payments owed to NWT Housing, particularly for those that have recently refinanced, so we can help our residents get out of poverty by having a stable home they know is theirs? Thank you.

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Member as well too. It is not just as simple as just writing off all of these debts throughout the Northwest Territories for housing. A lot of our programming does recycle, and it does go back in to programming for homeownership repair and programs available to support homes throughout the Northwest Territories.

I will have to take a look at what we have so far and looking at the current debt status that we do have, and I have to work with the Member as well too for her riding. But this is an issue throughout the Northwest Territories, and Housing is really trying to work with each and every one of these clients so they can be successful homeowners. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have some elders in the community who -- they did -- they entered into refinance agreement, and some of these elders are in their 70s. I mean, that should have been forgiven long time ago. I mean, that is not acceptable. That is unacceptable, Mr. Speaker. And we have some refinancing that was done with 20 years old and that the agreement is not in their name; it is in the parent's name. The family moved into the house before the child was born, and this is where they are doing refinancing agreement with a child that -- who got their first job. There's quite a few of that in my community, in my region. So I just -- it's more of a statement. It's more of a comment. So I don't have any questions. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Taken as a comment. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Mr. Speaker, the 19th Legislative Assembly cannot afford to leave residents of the Northwest Territories without meaningful change to procurement benefit retention and transparency in this territory, especially after all the focus and conversation we've had about that in the life of this Assembly. So I'm wondering does ITI intend to table a fulsome response to the procurement review panel's 50 recommendations that the public can see where ITI stands on each of those recommendations? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, as the Member's already pointed out, there was a summary version of what's ongoing already published several months ago with respect to the work that's happening. I believe with that there was also a publication of a set of principles, unifying principles about procurement so that we are no longer spread with different purposes and objectives between different departments, which was a significant recommendation from that report.

As to a detailed response, Mr. Speaker, that is something that is still coming out. There will be a more fulsome response out this summer.

Mr. Speaker, I do want to point out that delay isn't for lack of work that's been happening. One of the major things that's happened in the last year was an engagement directly led with EIA on -- with Indigenous governments and towards an Indigenous procurement policy or approach, and it was out of respect for that process that a more fulsome response has been somewhat delayed. But I do, as I said, expect something more by the summer. Thank you.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Minister for that response. And I can also say that in conversation with the Minister during our other work time that the Minister's been very helpful at kind of providing a fulsome response of what all the department is working on. The problem that I have is that I don't have concrete answers to be able to give the people that I serve about what those specific changes are going to look like.

In the month of August and in the summer, there's about eight sitting days that we'll get to sit through roughly before we're done, and we're literally escorted out the building. And that doesn't give me the time or my colleagues the time to really hold the government accountable to what those changes look like. And so the Minister said that there's an intent to table responses in the summer, but I'm really concerned with that timeline.

So is the specifics to the policy work that's been done, for example, to the northern manufacturer's policy, to the business incentive policy, is that expected to be tabled in the summer, or is that something that we will see before? Thank you.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there's things happening in an ongoing way. So some of the work under the manufacturing policy has -- if I'm not mistaken, has already been prepared and is already ready to go ahead with respect, for example, to the guidelines under the manufacturing policy. Those guidelines have been improved. And I will reconfirm as to their whereabouts on the website. I had understood they were going out and were being promulgated already.

With respect to the business incentive policy, one of the biggest issues is around defining northern business. I know this question's been asked many times. Mr. Speaker, there are recommendations in the report that we are actively looking at. Again, the issue around ensuring that we are being respectful of what's happening within Indigenous procurement and with those definitions has put a bit of a pause on that, but it will ultimately produce a better outcome that everyone is on board with.

It's not my intention -- not that I wouldn't table them, but it's not the intention to wait to the August session to table it. The idea is to get them published in the usual process here, which is it goes to Cabinet, it goes to MLAs; it then goes public. I would certainly employ that process here but with a view to having it out so that if there needs to be some further debate about it in August that there's ample time for that to take place, and it won't just be happening on August 30th. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.