This is page numbers 5695 - 5762 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

Topics

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5713

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5713

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5713

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5713

Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Madam Chair. So our understanding is that Imperial Oil did, in May of last year, let the regulator know that there was seepage that was occurring. That information was not relayed to us at that time. We also understand that in early February there was a spill, and that information was not relayed to us at that time. That's why you would have heard the Minister's statement, and we've been in discussions with Alberta.

Their perspective on this at this point in time is that they didn't think that -- they thought that it was contained and would not be able to get into the tributaries and into the Athabasca River. We have suggested that we feel that with seepage, that's hard to ascertain and that with spring melt runoff, there is a likelihood that some of that could potentially get into tributaries. So it's not up to the company itself to report to the GNWT, and we don't always have access to spill reports in other jurisdictions. It is written into the agreement that the Government of Alberta will notify us of these spills. And to be honest with you, they've done a fairly good job of notifying us of some of the other spills that have happened in certain basins. This one, obviously not. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. And with my previous hat on, I can understand exactly how this would have happened and sometimes, you know, just a spill gets reported and it really doesn't have much consequence and so therefore it probably just didn't trigger anybody in Alberta to actually think to tell us.

I guess -- I have already requested, and I hope that I'll get them, any technical reports that were issued or given to us. And I guess with my last minute left, can the Minister or department speak to what actually was spilled? Like, what are the contaminants of concern and, you know, is it just around hydrocarbons or are we looking at other chemicals and such used in the process? And if so, how far out did they spread that they're aware of now? Thank you.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th, 2023

Page 5714

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Madam Chair. So it was industrial wastewater that was spilled and also that is seeping is my understanding. And we are actually scheduled for a briefing with Imperial on Thursday. Alberta did respond last Thursday, and there was a briefing with folks from the Alberta Energy Regulator that we attended. And to answer some more questions, we have a briefing where we can ask some of these questions as well. So hydrocarbons, and then there were a number of other metals and sulfides. So metals like arsenic and things that you would expect would be associated with this type of work. And we do not have technical reports at this time. I'm assuming that that's -- that the technical briefing will be what we get on Thursday. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

No, thank you. Yes, sorry. I just wanted to tell the -- I do have a meeting with the Minister on Thursday at 1 o'clock. So I will be having that conversation with the Minister Savage as well. And we have written out a letter to Minister Savage and to the federal minister, and we're in the process of trying to table those documents here in the House. Thank you.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, you know, I guess the topic of water is very important. You know, the Mackenzie River basin I think counts for about -- has a drainage area of about 1.8 million square miles, which is about 20 percent of Canada's land mass. And you know, it all comes down, you know, funneling through this area. And, you know, as we see more development in south, the bigger the impact could be. And, you know, with the Kearl spill, for some reason we missed it. Partly because, I guess, we weren't informed by the Alberta government. And secondly, I'm not sure if anybody was monitoring, you know, the media or as well the Alberta regulator's pages as well, web pages or whatever. And, you know, I think that it's important that we do that. But anyways, we missed it and now it's big news all over. But one thing that I guess I'm interested in is that we do have these trans-boundary water agreements. And how many do we have, I guess, with respect to, you know, the Mackenzie River basin? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

So we have three. One with the Yukon government, one with BC, and one with the Alberta government.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Sorry, and we're negotiating with Saskatchewan.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. And the minister in -- I think in the media there had indicated that they would be using a dispute mechanism. And I'm just wondering, you know, how -- or if that mechanism has been used and how it will be used in this instance with the Kearl spill. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

So this is the first time it's being used. We've tried to do the other process of reaching out to the Alberta government and getting the information this way. But because of the severity of this spill and them not telling us information that we needed, we've implemented this. And for the detail on how the process works, I'm going to, with your permission, turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Deputy minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Madam Chair. So there's a number of things that can be done under the dispute resolution mechanism, and we're working with Alberta right now on what this will look like for this one. So there's a discussion of where we would like to go with this.

The GNWT's perspective is that we would like an independent look to come back to the bilateral management committee and tell them what their thoughts are on this. It is under the agreement that Alberta government's responsibility to notify us of spills. That's one of the reasons that we signed the agreement. And part of it was because we were learning about things in the media in the past. And I will say again that, in general, Alberta has let us know about spills in the past. But in this case, we were not alerted to it. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I guess on the news the premier said -- of Alberta said it wasn't, you know, their responsibility, and it was up to Imperial to notify the parties that might be -- you know, that are looking at damages. But the one thing I guess with this dispute mechanism, you know, we're doing extra probably testing hopefully. Is there a cost -- an extra cost related to this now, and would that dispute mechanism allow for those costs to be picked up by the Alberta government or Imperial? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I'll start, and then I'll turn to the deputy minister. So I know what the premier of Alberta said. We don't have an agreement with the industry. We have an agreement with the Government of Alberta. And I've made that very clear it is with them that they need to be sharing this information. So I need to make that very clear. I've had that conversation today. And so sharing it here today but for further detail on the process, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Deputy minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Madam Chair. So for the dispute resolution mechanism, we'll have to see what additional costs are related to that. The monitoring costs that we're incurring could be brought forward to the bilateral management committee as part of this, and I'm -- we can definitely do that. The cost for the BMC are shared between the NWT and Alberta as per the agreement itself. So the dispute resolution mechanism cost would be part of that shared expense. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Member for Hay River South.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

Page 5714

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. One thing I haven't really heard, I guess, in the news or from the department is the involvement of the Indigenous governments in the territories who -- you know, who have comprehensive agreements signed. And in those agreements, you know, they have some, you know, water rights and, you know, the right to, you know, quantity and quality of water as well. So what discussions have been taking place with Indigenous governments within the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

So as soon as we hit the send button to tell you guys what was going on, two seconds later we reached out to our Indigenous governments and gave them the same information. But that's the process. For further detail on what the staff have done, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Deputy minister.

Committee Motion 371-19(2): Tabled Document 813-19(2): 2023-2024 Main Estimates - Legislative Assembly - Deferral of Department (Page 5), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th

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Dr. Kelly

Thank you, Madam Chair. So we sent out information, as the Minister mentioned, to Indigenous governments, also to community governments because we know that they have concerns as well. We're working with the community government in Fort Smith as well as the Indigenous governments on the monitoring, the additional monitoring that is to take place. And we do have, as I mentioned earlier, the Indigenous steering committee that -- that group, as I mentioned, they nominate the Mackenzie River basin board member but they also nominate the bilateral management committee member that takes part in the bilateral management meetings with Alberta and Northwest Territories. That was done purposefully so that the Indigenous members have links back to all of the Indigenous members of the Indigenous steering committee so there will be a way of sharing information that way as well, including through the dispute resolution mechanism. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Member for Hay River South.