This is page numbers 5763 - 5826 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I move that this Assembly call on the federal government to better recognize the specific needs and circumstances of the Northwest Territories in its climate change approach. These specific needs include significantly more funding to make renewable energy options accessible and affordable for all Northerners;

Further, committee recommends that the Premier of the Northwest Territories convey this motion without delay to the Prime Minister of Canada with a letter requesting a reply.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I guess I find it necessary to respond to some of the things we just heard from the finance minister, but I also want to put this recommendation in context in terms of what the committee heard and saw. So, you know, Regular MLAs, we asked for this correspondence between the Minister and the federal government. We asked for that in July. We didn't get it until January, months later, months later after repeated requests. Repeated requests, Madam Chair. I've reviewed it, and of course I can't talk about it in any great detail here but what I saw was some pretty -- I think the federal government was quite flexible in how jurisdictions could approach a carbon tax, how they could design a system that would meet their own needs, and even if they decided to go into the federal backstop it was laid out in pretty clear terms. I think there was a lot of flexibility shown on their part. I don't think I can say much more, but I think that there was some commitments on our part that weren't fulfilled, but. I saw the correspondence. I reviewed it carefully. But it took us months to get that. Months.

So this recommendation, though, is not from Cabinet, not from the finance minister, this is from the Legislative Assembly. And if the motion passes, I think it reflects the will of this House. That's different than a finance minister writing to, you know, the Minister of Environment and Climate Change Canada. This is a letter that would go to the Prime Minister of Canada. The Prime Minister of Canada also, as we understand, made some commitments to this government when GNWT did sign on to the Pan-Canadian Framework. And I think there's probably still some room to maneuver and try to work with the federal government to get greater investment here so that we can develop more alternatives on renewable energy to help give people more choices and reduce their cost of living. And that's what this is really aimed at. So I don't think this is necessarily a criticism of Cabinet or the finance minister. This is trying to follow up with commitments that had been made in the last Assembly and making sure that this expression comes from the House, not just from the Cabinet's side. So I support this motion, Madam Chair. And I think it's a reasonable one. Thanks, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I too wanted to speak to this recommendation. I feel strongly that Northerners are currently in a kind of northern double jeopardy where right now Northerners are being -- they're seeing increases to their power rates through NTPC for using archaic energy infrastructure and then on the flip side they're going taxed through the carbon tax for using that infrastructure and not using alternatives but these alternatives don't exist to Northerners. And so if we're going to turn around and kind of, so to speak, slap Northerners on the wrist for not using these alternatives, then we need to make sure that these alternatives are available and that they're affordable. And this speaks not only to the NWT being able to achieve its greenhouse gas goals but also to the entire country being able to achieve its goals in partnership with all of its jurisdictions.

I also want to say here, Madam Chair, that increasing the cost of living in the Northwest Territories is not only a concern about cost of living; it also has huge impacts on whether or not people are going to stay in the Northwest Territories and, in turn, that has impacts on Arctic sovereignty, Arctic security, and also on reconciliation. So I support this recommendation. Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that this committee recommends that the Northwest Territories Power Corporation increase the cap on intermittent renewable energy generation that the residents and communities can install to offset their power use and develop a plan to support projects above the current cap.

And further, that NTPC and the Department of Infrastructure provide their response to the May 2021 net metering and community self-generation policy review. Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

And furthermore, that each recommendation, NTPC and the department should indicate whether it agreed its work plan for implementation and its progress towards implementation. Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I support this motion and I want to thank, first of all, my colleagues for doing all this work on this. I am not on this committee and it has been a struggle to keep up with everything that's been going on. So what I like about this or what I think is really important about this one is that I don't think that the people of our territory or the residents of our territory, private business, should be paying for the failure of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation to maintain its grid properly. It was really shocking to me when I came into Cabinet actually, as a Minister, and was told that the Town of Inuvik could no longer add any future solar panels because it would cause too much of a drain to the power corp and it would no longer be able to sustain itself in that region. I know since then we've had some other projects come up but it is still my understanding, and again not an expert, that, you know, the power corp is -- or the rate, the cap, is restricting people from doing their own work or for creating innovative industries around renewables and such. So to me, while I understand that this is likely going to have a huge issue and cost to the power corp, I no longer think that's the problem of the residents of the Northwest Territories; that's the problem of the power corp. And the power corp being run by the board of deputy ministers, I think then becomes a problem of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Clearly if we'd been putting money into renewables 20 years ago, we wouldn't be in this problem. So I support this motion, Madam Chair. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, this is something that I spoke about in the House last week. And it's one thing to have the actual energy alternatives available to Northerners, but it's another thing to actually empower Northerners to use those energy alternatives. And NTPC needs a progressive plan to actually welcome these energy alternatives into its system and to the people of the Northwest Territories while still being able to maintain the affordability of a shrinking client base, and that's really the policy work that needs to be done here, is how do they both maintain energy as -- maintain energy provision as other people are shifting off and on to alternatives. So I support this motion, and I think it's an important one, and as my colleague said it is well behind the times. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. I too support this motion. And I think it's -- you know, if you look at this in the context of the report itself, it comes back to how residents that have expressed to us as Regular MLAs and through the committee review process that they feel that there's not enough alternatives in terms of energy choices for people. And as I understand it, this -- you know, we've talked about net metering for at least the seven years I've been an MLA, the need to review that and improve it. It's tied up with our energy future future, bigger picture issues. You know, we've got NTPC; there's governance issues, problems there; there's also -- they have a huge grid. And while the world is moving towards smaller grids and energy self-sufficiency, and this is really about transformation of all of this, but giving people more energy choices. As I understand it, this specific recommendation around reviewing net metering is something that's already in the next action plan under the energy strategy. It's something that as I understand committee -- or sorry, Cabinet, the government, is actually going to start to do anyway. So I expect when we get a response back that they're going to say that this work has already started. But I think this is some extra pushing along the way to make sure that we get the right kind of policy direction to the public utilities board, to look at net metering again, but also to redirect the Northwest Territories Power Corporation to encourage greater use of renewables and alternatives to help build energy self-sufficiency and give people more energy choices. Thanks, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I want to read something that a constituent sent to me yesterday, and I tabled it today, but I just want to read a portion of it, and I quote: "The bottom line is that the carbon tax is purely punitive for Northerners. There's no evidence that the carbon tax will drive down carbon emissions in the North nor that the minuscule reduction in carbon emissions will have any meaningful impact. If anything, the carbon tax will have the effect of driving industry, jobs, and population away from the Northwest Territories."

Madam Chair, you know, we've slowly killed off -- or we're slowly trying to kill off the oil and gas industry which has -- you know, which has provided some benefits to, you know, the people in the far North. And with carbon tax, we are slowly killing off, I think, you know, the Northwest Territories itself. And we have to do something. We have to make the federal government realize that, yes, we are different. We're living in a -- you know, in an area that's remote. It's costly to live here. We choose to live here mind you. So I think it's very important that that message gets conveyed to the federal government and that they actually look at -- they look at ways to, you know, offset those costs. I don't think they're going to go away. And so I -- you know, with this motion there, I'm glad to see it in front of us and I support it. But at the end of the day, I think it's a bigger picture and we have to do something and, you know, for the NWT I guess, looking after and keeping control of the system I have no problem with that, but at the end of the day, it's -- you know, it's about the people in the North. It's about the cost of living. And it's slowly slowly killing -- you know, killing the people off, you know, by, you know, just keeping -- piling, you know, costs on top of costs. And we can't -- we got to stop somewhere. And this one here is probably a good place to actually take a stand and let the feds know that, you know, we don't want to -- you know, we don't want to take any more. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion. Minister Wawzonek.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'll be very brief. The Member from Frame Lake actually made my point which is that this -- the matter of finding a solution to incentivize alternative energy within the power corporation has been acknowledged as a challenge and a problem and one that is -- a solution is going to be sought for. So did want to emphasize that, again, the finding of the issues, defining the problems, I certainly share that view of it. Bill 60 isn't connected to the -- it's not directly connected and certainly can't solve this problem. Bill 60 is just, again, raising the tax rates so that we can keep our system and keep the revenues from it. And, quite frankly, Madam Chair, it may well be that some of those revenues get directed to efforts on -- in the energy strategy to provide those kinds of alternatives. That's one of the reasons, again, we want to maintain those revenues here and to maintain the higher revenues through the large emitter system. But just I wanted to make sure that folks were aware that Bill 60 doesn't impact directly on the work that's happening already to solve that problem. That work does need to happen.

And just so there's no confusion, electricity generation, that is still exempt. So to the extent that communities are relying on diesel to generate electricity, that diesel is still exempt, just so, again, so the public is aware. Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that this committee recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories provide funding to community governments to compensate for their increased carbon tax payments;

And further, that this committee specifically recommends providing an additional $2.2 million in the 2023-2024 fiscal year with subsequent funding increasing proportionally to any future increase in carbon tax rates. Thank you, Madam Chair.