This is page numbers 6257 - 6302 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Diane Archie, Hon. Frederick Blake Jr., Mr. Bonnetrouge, Hon. Paulie Chinna, Ms. Cleveland, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Mr. Edjericon, Hon. Julie Green, Mr. Jacobson, Mr. Johnson, Ms. Martselos, Ms. Nokleby, Mr. O'Reilly, Hon. R.J. Simpson, Ms. Semmler, Hon. Shane Thompson, Hon. Caroline Wawzonek

The House met at 1:31 p.m.

---Prayer

Prayer
Prayer

Page 6257

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Colleagues, before we continue, I'd just like to recognize my cousin Sharlene and her youngest son Kenton, also Carol Ross, all from Tsiigehtchic. Welcome to the House. Kenton's nickname is Dennis the Menace, but I don't know why. Welcome to the Chamber, I hope you enjoy the day. Mahsi. Ministers' statements. Madam Premier.

Minister's Statement 366-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Ministers' Statements

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, homelessness is a complex, multifaceted tragedy experienced by many individuals and families in the Northwest Territories and is an epidemic across Canada. It was my desire to see our government do more for our most vulnerable residents, including those who experience homelessness, that led me into politics. I am very proud to say that later today I will table A Way Home: A Comprehensive Strategy to Address Homelessness in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, the factors that lead to homelessness are often complicated and nuanced, as are the supports needed to prevent it and help those living in it. Our government recognizes the need for a more integrated approach to addressing homelessness. This is why we have committed to developing a whole-of-government strategy to address homelessness in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, there is no one-size-fits-all solution that will prevent and end all homelessness in the Northwest Territories. To develop and implement person-centered solutions, we must commit to working together with multiple GNWT departments and with Indigenous and community partners. We have the knowledge and the expertise, and many of the programs and services needed, to significantly reduce homelessness by addressing the factors that lead to homelessness.

Mr. Speaker, this document incorporates the feedback received on the draft homelessness strategy tabled on March 30th, 2023. I would like to thank the Indigenous governments, community governments, non-governmental organizations, private industry stakeholders, and members of the public for their contributions to this long-awaited strategy. I would also like to thank the Standing Committee on Social Development for their thoughtful feedback on the draft strategy and for their recent report on homelessness prevention which helped inform the action areas outlined in this strategy.

This strategy sets the path towards strengthening our collective efforts to addressing homelessness and to providing better support to individuals and families experiencing, or at risk of experiencing, homelessness. The strategy identifies actions that we can take to practically address homelessness in all its forms, including enhancing supports for those at risk of becoming homeless and improving person-centered services for those experiencing chronic homelessness. The ultimate goal proposed by the strategy is to support all communities in the territory to achieve "functional zero" homelessness.

A functional zero objective recognizes that, while we cannot expect homelessness to be fully eradicated, we can take action to ensure that homelessness is prevented wherever possible, and when individuals and families do experience homelessness it is brief, rare, and non-recurring.

Mr. Speaker, our continued collaboration with community partners is essential for achieving these goals. The actions identified in the strategy recognize the important contributions of Indigenous, community, and non-governmental partners in implementing people-centered solutions. The Government of the Northwest Territories has an important role in supporting these partners across the territory as they continue to identify and implement local solutions that address homelessness.

In addition to identifying a need for better collaboration with partners, this strategy acknowledges the need for improved coordination of the Government of the Northwest Territories' programs and services. It outlines the importance of ensuring that these programs and services align with the needs of the territorial residents and communities. The Government of the Northwest Territories program design and service delivery should not be a barrier to access.

Mr. Speaker, a home is more than just a roof over your head. It is a connection to the land and the water, culture and family. This strategy recognizes the need to honour individuals' agency, dignity, and strengths, and to connect them with the culturally-safe support they need. I would like to once again express thanks to Indigenous governments and organizations, community governments, non-governmental partners, and the public for their contributions in developing this strategy. I look forward to continuing to work alongside all of you to make meaningful change through our collective efforts to address homelessness in the Northwest Territories. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 366-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for Housing NWT.

Minister's Statement 367-19(2): Habitat for Humanity
Ministers' Statements

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, we know that no single government can effectively address housing issues in the Northwest Territories on their own; therefore, in order to be successful our government continues to build partnerships with Indigenous governments, community governments, private companies, the Government of Canada, and non-governmental organizations. One of our partnerships with a prominent non-governmental organization is with Habitat for Humanity. Habitat for Humanity is a global organization that works towards stable, affordable housing with the help of sweat equity.

Mr. Speaker, Housing NWT's partnership began with them in 2013 and has so far resulted in six completed houses located in the communities of Hay River, Dettah, and Yellowknife. Three more are currently being under construction in Yellowknife, and a plan for an additional four over the remainder of our current arrangement will ideally be in other communities.

In addition to financial support, Housing NWT is donating a residential lot to the non-profit organization, with a plan to build two duplexes. As Habitat for Humanity expands beyond Yellowknife, Housing NWT staff have supported them by working with partners to identify land and possible partners for in-kind donations since the NGO relies heavily on support from businesses and communities. Housing NWT has contributed $450,000 to habitat builds to date and will continue to support other builds that are being planned.

Mr. Speaker, the most recent Habitat for Humanity project was completed in Hay River where a deserving family moved into their new home earlier this month. I had hoped I would have been able to officially welcome them into their new home in June as part of a key ceremony, however due to the fire situation the ceremony is now delayed. Therefore, today I am happy to congratulate the family on their new home and hope to be able to participate in a rescheduled key ceremony once the date is chosen. Additional ceremonies will be held for clients when the three homes that are under construction are completed. These key ceremonies are an exciting opportunity and mark a huge milestone for the clients to take ownership to a brand-new home.

In order to be eligible for Habitat for Humanity home program, families must be in core need housing and paying 30 percent or more of their household income on their current housing and are able to make affordable housing payments based on their income. Habitat for Humanity works closely with each family to ensure they are ready for homeownership and provides guidance and referrals on budgeting, home maintenance, and other housing-related subjects. Housing NWT also provides homeownership education courses to help set up families for success.

Mr. Speaker, Habitat for Humanity relies on other partnerships as well, including annual funding from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, Yellowknife Elks Lodge No. 314, as well as land donations from community governments. Donations of land are especially important because they make these projects affordable without the key factor to build into the cost of their project. Habitat for Humanity is currently seeking applications from families for the two new homes that are under construction in Yellowknife with applications closing on Friday. I hope that families continue to take advantage of this program as they work towards homeownership.

Mr. Speaker, Housing NWT's partnership with Habitat for Humanity is of critical importance and is one of the many different and effective ways our government is addressing housing needs in our territory. We will continue to increase the well-being of residents and communities by providing fair access to quality housing supports for the ones that are most in need. Together, we look forward to helping more families achieve homeownership in the years to come. I would like to thank Housing NWT for their continuous work with Habitat for Humanity. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 367-19(2): Habitat for Humanity
Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for MACA.

Minister's Statement 368-19(2): 2023 North American Indigenous Games
Ministers' Statements

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to recognize the athletes, coaches, managers, and mission staff who will represent Team NT at the 2023 North American Indigenous Games that will be held in Halifax, Nova Scotia from July 15th to the 23rd. The North American Indigenous Games' mission is to improve the quality of life for Indigenous people by supporting a well self-determined approach to sports and cultural activities. The goal is to encourage equal access to participation in the social, cultural, and spiritual fibre of the community in which they reside. This event also promotes and respects Indigenous diversity.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories has endorsed the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's Calls to Action, including Recommendations 87 through 91 which are specific to Indigenous sport.

Recommendation 88 calls upon all governments to take action to ensure long-term Aboriginal athlete development and growth and continue to support the North American Indigenous Games, including funding to host the games, and for provincial and territorial team preparation and travel. This year I can confirm that just over $1 million of funds has been provided to the Aboriginal Sport Circle NT for the purpose of team preparation and travel. This includes contributions from Sports Canada and the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, enhancing capacity and long-term development of Indigenous athletes are a priority for our government. To support long-term Indigenous athlete development, I am engaged with my ministerial colleagues in the Yukon and Nunavut on how we can work more effectively with Sport Canada to further develop and improve Indigenous sport in the North. This July, Team NT will be represented by more than 200 coaches, managers and athletes, mission staff, and cultural performers at the 2023 North American Indigenous Games competing in 11 different sports. I would like to thank the Team NT leaders: chef de mission Mr. Carson Roche and assistant chef de missions Ms. Cheyenne Lafferty and Mr. Damon Crossman. And thank you also to all the mission staff for your support.

In addition to Team NT, the GNWT is pleased to support the NWT Youth Ambassadors Program at these games. This program offers a wonderful volunteer experience for youth at major territorial, national, and international events in which participants work to develop life and job skills. There are 11 youth volunteers in the NWT Youth Ambassador Program, ranging from 16 to 23 years old, from nine different communities across the territory.

The Government of the Northwest Territories is extremely proud to support our teams at the North American Indigenous Games through financial assistance and a range of other programs that support the development of coaches and athletes at the local, regional, territorial, and national levels. I would also like to thank the Aboriginal Sports Circle of the Northwest Territories and all other territorial sport organizations who are responsible for selecting and managing teams. Their contribution plays a significant and important part in sustaining a healthy and strong Northwest Territories.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I would like to extend my sincere gratitude to the many volunteers and sponsors for their time and donations. Whether a coach, an organizer, or somebody who provides meals, these contributions to Team NT are very much appreciated. I sincerely hope all participants enjoy this wonderful experience. Play fair and, most importantly, have fun. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 368-19(2): 2023 North American Indigenous Games
Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. Member for Nunakput.

Member's Statement 1547-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Members' Statements

Page 6258

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, Mr. Speaker, it's Marine Transportation Services. Barging season is upon us, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise on the issue of the services in my riding of Nunakput.

I have spoken on this issue many times in the House. The sealift is an essential lifeline to my constituents. It brings the fuel, food, vehicles, and building materials for the year. This depends on the rest of the whole year, so it saves them from flying in goods.

Mr. Speaker, I look at the sailing schedule and I'm concerned. Last year MTS stopped accepting cargo July 14th. This year it is accepting cargo until July 20th. It seems to me the season will be one week shorter, even though the season is already so short in my riding due to weather. It's easy for bad weather and iceberg delay in light of shipping schedule into the communities. And, of course, Mr. Speaker, last year's barge into Sachs Harbour did not make it into the community due to high winds on the Beaufort Sea that turned the ship around.

So, Mr. Speaker, why after last year's failure, this season starting even later. We can't afford ourselves in the same situation as we had last year. And I'm really concerned, Mr. Speaker, in regards to the shipping season in my riding. So many people rely on it and the high cost of everything that's gone up since the carbon tax kicked in, it's affecting all families right across the North, and I'm wondering if the -- I'll have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time on enlightening us in regards to the schedule and making sure that services are met in the communities I represent. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 1547-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife North.

Member's Statement 1548-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Members' Statements

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The last few months of a session are a series of mixed emotions. Projects you've been yelling about for years all of a sudden finish and you find yourself sighing in relief but also wondering why was that so hard? And then, Mr. Speaker, projects that you were really hoping would get done, well it turns out they're not going to get done and another Assembly will have to yell about them for more years. And, Mr. Speaker, there's one project above all that I would like to see completed before I leave this session, not removing Walmart from BIP or opening the DMV on Saturday, Mr. Speaker, and I believe the Minister of housing might share this priority, and that is opening the Fort Good Hope Seniors Centre, Mr. Speaker, because in March 2021, we had an official grand opening of the seniors centre in Fort Good Hope and the Minister cut the ribbon but did not open. And so in the fall of 2021, the Minister said, well, it should be completed by March 2022. March 2022 came and went, and it became April 2023, Mr. Speaker. And then last month the Minister said it would open in June 2023. Well, Mr. Speaker, June is tomorrow, so I'll have questions for the Minister of housing about whether we are finally going to open the Fort Good Hope Seniors Centre. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 1548-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Members' statements. Member for Thebacha.

Member's Statement 1549-19(2): Addressing Homelessness
Members' Statements

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have spoken numerous times in this House about the issue of homelessness and the fact that Fort Smith, despite being the fourth largest community in the NWT, is without a homeless shelter. Mr. Speaker, preventing and reducing homelessness in the NWT is an extremely important issue, and it is something that not only the capital has to deal with but the regional centres are also increasingly feeling the pressures of rising homelessness as well, which is a very troubling trend that must be understood and addressed.

Mr. Speaker, wait lists for public housing are always sky high, and it's the exact same way for every community in the Northwest Territories. I've heard of stories of some people living in tents waiting for months and years on end to get a home. I've heard of people living in territorial parks at campsites during the summer months waiting to get a home. And I've even heard some people who were so desperate to get a home that they're willing to literally camp outside of a Housing NWT office just to raise some attention to their dire situation. I've always heard of countless people who are couch surfing, and sometimes the small families who are doing that, who stay under any roof they can just to get by. And it is people like that who I just described is what we will call "invisible homelessness", which is a type of homelessness that is not often considered as being homeless.

Mr. Speaker, homelessness - no matter who it is, whether it be a young, a youth, a single parent, a whole family - is a major issue that this Assembly has not properly addressed. I also know there have even been some very well thought out proposals given to Housing NWT from groups in Fort Smith which contain some great solutions in addressing homelessness. The Tiny Home Pilot Project from Salt River First Nation did not receive support from Housing NWT, which I am still unsure why.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I know that in the supplementary appropriation bills that the House is passing this week has $2 million for emergency homeless shelters. So I hope that some of those funds will be used in Fort Smith to help address some of the need in my community on this issue. I will have questions for the Premier at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 1549-19(2): Addressing Homelessness
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Members' statements. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Member's Statement 1550-19(2): Access to Dental Services
Members' Statements

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Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, dental services in the Northwest Territories is very different depending on where you live. It also depends on what dental coverage you have. For example, if you work for a business with benefits or with the GNWT, you get dental insurance to cover you and your family. If you're a First Nations and hold a status card or if you're Inuit and registered with your Inuit organization, you are covered under non-insured health benefits. If you're a Metis Indigenous to the NWT and living in the NWT, then you're covered by the GNWT program Metis benefits which is equivalent to NIHB. But, Mr. Speaker, if you're non-Indigenous and you have no dental coverage, it's at your own cost. But recently the federal government has made a program where you can apply to Canada for the Interim Canada Dental Benefit for families earning less than $90,000 a year. Although this is great, again, this is Ottawa doing a great thing, but not realizing the struggles that we have in the North, this doesn't cover travel to the nearest dentist, especially when you have no dentist or dental services in your community.

Mr. Speaker, years ago most schools all had dental therapists or regional dental therapists that travelled to the communities and that was the main dental prevention provider outside the capital and some regional centres that had private clinics. I'm very glad that they were there because I still have my teeth thanks to them.

Mr. Speaker, even before COVID, dental prevention has been a struggle in the Northwest Territories. And since COVID, dental services have been non-existent in many communities. Mr. Speaker, we as a government need to do better in dental prevention services. We need to be working closely with the federal government. We need to come up with a better plan to provide these basic services, especially to all our children, youth, and adults in the NWT. And I will have questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services. Thank you.

Member's Statement 1550-19(2): Access to Dental Services
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Members' statements. Member for Deh Cho.

Member's Statement 1551-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Members' Statements

Page 6259

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to speak about skilled trades safety certifications. This is a topic I hear about frequently from my constituents and employers. The skilled trades and construction work come under a number of safety hazards that could be seriously harmful. Employers like local construction companies look for and often require specific safety certifications to hire employees. Generally, training for safety certifications provides knowledge of basic procedures and processes to ensure that an individual can competently and safely perform a work duty or activity. For example, fall protection training teaches proper use of equipment to keep a person safe while working at heights. This is important in my region as more and more communities are building homes and have construction projects they are working on. I understand why employees need safety certifications. I do not understand why safety certificates need to be renewed as quickly as one, two, or three years.

Mr. Speaker, in small communities, safety training and employment opportunities are few and far between. The lack of safety training available either through Aurora College or employer training is a barrier to residents in the small communities from becoming certified or renewing certification. This means that people cannot access training and therefore do not have the safety certification requirements for employment.

Mr. Speaker, I know that different safety certifications are directed in different ways, including by legislation, regulation, sometimes by industry, or even by company. What role does the Workers' Safety and Compensation Commission have in ensuring that these safety certification expiry dates reflect the unique northern context that I just outlined, that people in small communities do not have the same access to training through Aurora College or other training institutes or employee training and many people do not have the financial resources to travel and enroll in a program on their own.

Mr. Speaker, people want to retain their safety certificates and be employed. WSCC needs to review safety certifications within the unique context of the Northwest Territories and the small communities and use its discretion to increase the length of time that a safety certificate is valid. I will have questions for the Minister responsible for the Workers' Safety and Compensation Commission at the appropriate time. Mahsi.

Member's Statement 1551-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Members' statements. Member for Great Slave.

Member's Statement 1552-19(2): Northwest Territories Flood Mitigation and Response
Members' Statements

Page 6259

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, flooding in the territory continues to be a real threat to residents' homes, livelihoods, and critical infrastructure in the Northwest Territories communities. In March, I spoke about the need to relocate and upgrade the Fort Simpson diesel plant to a liquified natural gas, or LNG, project, and the government's general lack of vision and long-term planning regarding infrastructure. Two weeks ago, the Peel River flooded in Fort McPherson, cutting off roadways, access to the airport, and water and sewer services. In other words, Mr. Speaker, the community's most critical infrastructure. I am worried that this government is not acting safely and is not moving quickly enough to protect residents. The flood in Fort Simpson was over two years ago but ice jams caused water levels on the Mackenzie River to rise to 11 metres at the start of May again this year. Luckily, the river broke in favour of the community; however, the risk remains, and I ask what is the government doing to protect the community's power infrastructure? Both LKFN Chief Antoine and Fort Simpson Mayor Whelly have repeatedly called for the need to move key infrastructure such as the power plant and water treatment facility off the flood-prone island and onto higher ground. The Minister of Infrastructure stated in March that a location had been found for the new power plant off the island. The Minister also said that the power corporation would hold a board meeting on March 10th to confirm the scoping required for the construction of a new power project with complete cost estimates and relocation plans for the new plant by the summer.

Well, Mr. Speaker, summer is here. What has been done? The power solution in Fort Simpson needs to be more comprehensive than moving power poles and lines away from areas affected by riverbank erosion. Expanding small scale LNG in the NWT could play a key role in bridging the gap between our current high carbon intensive infrastructure and completely renewable energy in the future while helping to achieve the goal of reduced carbon emission.

Mr. Speaker, where LNG makes sense, we must use it in our territory, and in Fort Simpson it makes sense. So let's get it done now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 1552-19(2): Northwest Territories Flood Mitigation and Response
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake.

Member's Statement 1553-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
Members' Statements

Page 6259

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I've raised this government's faulty Project Assessment Policy many times as an MLA, and here I go again. Cabinet approved the Project Assessment Policy on April 13th, 2017. The Project Assessment Policy requires "any technical advice and evidence provided to boards by their respective staff is in line with legislation, Cabinet direction and ministerial policies established under this policy."

This policy grants Cabinet immense power and reads like a way of muzzling our scientists and preventing presentation of evidence that may not be consistent with Cabinet's way of thinking. My concerns were borne out by the review board in its March 29, 2018, report on the Tlicho All-Season Road. The board found that the so-called whole-of-government approach "has limited the ability of evidence and expertise from GNWT departments about potential impacts, concerns, and mitigations on issues within their respective mandates and jurisdictions."

As a result of this harsh criticism of GNWT, the Department of Lands commissioned a "lessons learned" report on the Tlicho All-Season Road Environmental Assessment. That report concluded that "a whole of government approach is not necessarily best suited to all projects where the GNWT is the proponent and should not be the default approach for future projects where the GNWT is a proponent."

It also said "a whole-of-government approach, particularly in the context of a public review process, cannot be successful without an explicit commitment to greater transparency and evidence-based decision-making."

The formal response from the Department of Lands committed to reviewing that Project Assessment Policy by the end of the 19th Assembly. I'm still waiting and there's not much time left. This work is increasingly important as GNWT is likely to become a proponent for larger infrastructure projects that will require very careful scrutiny.

I asked written questions on this topic in March 2022, over a year ago. I was told that there would be no public engagement or work with Indigenous governments in revising the policy. Mr. Speaker, that's a big disappointment. I will have questions for the Minister of Environment and Climate Change on whether this work is really going to get done in the 19th Assembly. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 1553-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake.

Member's Statement 1554-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Procurement Review
Members' Statements

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, two years ago, this government tabled a procurement review report published by an independent review panel. The report highlighted the concerns of northern business about communication and procedural fairness of how bids are administered, advertised, or requested, and how the government is evaluating value for dollar. Businesses identified concerns about being shut out of opportunities to apply on bids and do not believe their BIP status is giving them the intended advantage.

Mr. Speaker, we have yet to see a response from the GNWT to the procurement review report and as we wait, I want to remind the GNWT of the still relevant procurement recommendations put forward by the 18th Assembly.

The 18th Assembly Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment worked with the business community to develop a report identifying what is keeping northern businesses out of government procurement. The report identified a need for consistency, clarity, and transparency in the procurement process. Northern businesses need to know what the government wants and where and when to access that information. These are questions I am still getting from NWT businesses.

The second theme identified the need to attract northern business more effectively. Committee found that multiple local businesses felt disadvantaged competing for government contracts because the invitations to tender reflected a limited understanding of the unique situation of northern businesses, and that there is a disconnect between the intent of a policy and reality on the ground. An example of how this is happening today is brand name specific procurement rather than function-focused procurement.

The committee suggested the GNWT include northern hire requirements in contracts, ensure local businesses know about opportunities under $25,000, divide large projects into smaller ones, and adopt solutions to increase competitiveness of northern businesses.

The third theme identified a need for the GNWT to better understand NWT business capacities. I've spoken with northern businesses passed over for work after being told they did not have the capacity to execute the contract only to be hired in turn by southern businesses chosen by the NWT. This is just giving NWT dollars to southern businesses to allow NWT businesses the honour of working in their own territory.

The fourth theme is support related. We need to ensure the government is supporting the growth and success of northern business through mechanisms that support prompt payment and the importance of shop local that I spoke to last week.

Mr. Speaker, it's been four years since this report was tabled, three years since I originally delivered this Member's statement, and two years since the procurement review was complete. It is time we see the response and results of these efforts. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 1554-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Procurement Review
Members' Statements

Page 6260

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Members' statements. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Member's Statement 1555-19(2): Indian Day School Survivors
Members' Statements

Page 6260

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is with heavy heart that I address this Chamber, not only as an Indigenous MLA representing the people of Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, but also as a voice for the countless survivors of the unfathomable suffering experienced by our people in the Indian Day School institutions, the lasting impacts of which continues to reverberate through our communities.

After the transfer of responsibility for the Indian Day School to the Government of the Northwest Territories on April 1st, 1969, the hope was that a new era of education practices would begin, one that would foster a sense of culture, pride, and providing a nurturing environment for our children to thrive. However, what transpired within the walls of these institutions was a betrayal of trust as an insult of our dignity and the systematic insurance of our culture.

For far too long, the horrors inflicted upon our children had been buried beneath the weight of silence and secrecy. Today we must shatter this silence to confront the painful truth. Our children were subjected to physical, emotional, and sexual abuse at the hands of those entrusted in their care. They were stripped of their language, culture, identity, and forbidden from speaking their own native tongue and forced to adopt a foreign custom that left scars on their souls.

The devastating consequences of this abuse are visible in the intergenerational trauma that plague our communities to this day. We have witnessed the shattered lives, the loss of self-worth, and the struggles to heal from the wounds that never truly fade. The resistance of our people is awe inspiring, but we must acknowledge that healing cannot occur without justice, accountability, and meaningful redress.

I call upon this Assembly to lend unwavering support to the survivors of the federal day school system. We must see that the GNWT acknowledge the abuse that took place on its watch after April 1st, 1969, and take full responsibility for the harm that was caused by the Catholic and Anglican Church who were on contract to the GNWT for 16 years before the Catholic Church and Anglican Church contract expired with the GNWT. There can be no more excuses, no more attempts to evade culpability today. We must hold these institutions and our own government accountable for their actions, or lack thereof, in protecting our children and preserving their culture and heritage.

Furthermore, it is imperative that we advocate for a robust comprehensive support services for survivors and their families here in the NWT today. This includes culturally-appropriate mental health services, counselling, financial assistance to aid in their healing journey. We must ensure the necessary resources are made available to those in need in the community level, allowing survivors to reclaim their lives and regain a sense of agency and self-determination as followed of taking over the responsibilities for the federal day school of April 1st, 1969. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my Members statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Mahsi. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. In addition, we must prioritize the inclusion of Indigenous history, culture, and language in our educational curriculum. Our children deserve an education that embraces and celebrates their heritage, that foster culture, pride, and that empowers them to succeed while maintaining a strong connection to their roots. By investing in our youth, we invest in a brighter and more equitable future for all Indigenous here in the NWT. As a representative of the people of the legislature, we have a moral obligation to address the painful legacy of the federal Indian Day School system prior to April 1st, 1969, and after April 1st, 1969, when the GNWT took over the education portfolio from the federal Government of Canada. We must work together to dismantle the structure that perpetuated the marginalization of oppression of our people.

Let us join in hands and solidarity to commit a meaningful change and ensure the voice of survivors are at the forefront of every decision we make going forward. The road to healing will be long and arduous, but I have faith in the resilience and strength of our communities. Let us honour the survivors' courage by taking the swift decisive action. Together, we can pave the way to a future where justice, truth, and reconciliations prevail. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I have questions for the Premier at the appropriate time. Mahsi.

Member's Statement 1555-19(2): Indian Day School Survivors
Members' Statements

Page 6260

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh.

Member's Statement 1556-19(2): Judo in the Deh Cho Region
Members' Statements

May 31st, 2023

Page 6260

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to speak about an amazing opportunity for youth in the Deh Cho thanks to NWT Judo Association and the DDEC. As I witnessed in a couple of the schools in the Nahendeh, there is a great deal of excitement growing around this program for the youth. I can say the youth get so excited when they see the instructor in the school.

With the incredible support of the DDEC, the NWT Judo Association has created a judo program for the entire region with full-time coaches currently in Fort Simpson and Fort Liard with a third on the way for the community of Fort Providence. The goal of this program is to provide kids with physical literacy, build their self-confidence and, more importantly, have fun. Judo teaches important life skills like how to fall safely and creates a safe environment to physically interact with your peers.

One of the principles of judo is jita kyoei meaning mutual welfare and benefit, and the students are very quick to help each other when learning a particular skill when it is challenging. Not only have we witnessed excitement from the students but numerous teachers in the schools are excited to watch the children participate in class and in many classes, they have participated in classes themselves. To watch the students help their teacher learn to perform a break fall is amazing as they quickly beam with pride getting to play the role of teacher briefly.

The participation in the program is not only free during school hours but the extracurricular programs are as well and is not limited to school-aged children. Providing children with more than just something to do, but a program with purpose and professional guidance has been a breath of fresh air and creates a lot of happy faces.

In the past year, the NWT Judo Association held regional gatherings in Yellowknife, Fort Simpson and Inuvik from the DDEC taking part in all of these events at no cost to the families of the participants. They also brought two students, one from Yellowknife and one from Fort Liard, to the first ever outside of the territory even. The Edmonton international was the largest judo tournament in Canada in the 2022-2023 season and the NWT athletes performed incredibly well, returning home with a silver medal. The success and enthusiasm that has been created in the southwest region of the territory is something they hope to recreate in other regions. Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Thank you.

---Unanimous consent granted

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, colleagues. The regions with eventual goal of having this program territory wide. They believe strongly that the confidence built in learning judo is transferable, becomes confidence in one area often builds confidence in other aspects of life. As an individual sport, you do not require a team of talented athletes to be successful but the success of one athlete can no doubt inspire the belief in others that can achieve their goals as well, and these goals do not have to be limited to sports.

Mr. Speaker, with the three-time world champion and a two-time Olympic medalist, Yuri Alvear joined the coaching staff this summer, there should be a lot more excitement and headlines in the near future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 1556-19(2): Judo in the Deh Cho Region
Members' Statements

Page 6261

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nahendeh. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Great Slave.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 6261

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize former city councillor Julian Morse here in the gallery watching the proceedings today. Welcome.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 6261

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Recognition visitors in the gallery. Once again, I'd like to recognize Sharlene Blake, Kenton Blake, and Carol Ross who now lives in Yellowknife. It's always good to see people from Little Hollywood they call it, Tsiigehtchic.

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Acknowledgements. Oral questions. Member for Nunakput.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my Member's statement today was in regards to shipping with MTS in regards to servicing Nunakput communities. Last year shipment, again, Mr. Speaker, did not make it to Sachs Harbour and the goods were left in Paulatuk. Many of the goods were flown into the community at no cost to the residents, which I'm really grateful for the department for doing that. But, Mr. Speaker, there's still goods sitting in Paulatuk that was -- so it's an unfinished delivery.

Can the Minister tell the House when all the goods from last year will make it into Sachs Harbour? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Minister responsible for Infrastructure.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct; we had a delay in shipping some of the goods to Sachs Harbour. We did that for the reason to prepare our sailing season for this year, so we had a pause, and now we're continuing to deliver some of these supplies back. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The sailing schedule for this year for the communities is extended by a week. I'm really worried in regards to are the goods going to be able to make it into the communities this year and will they be brought in earlier, and then trying to service contracts and putting our people first? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just want to share a few updates with some of the work that's underway to get ready. Engineers have been brought back early to be able to perform routine maintenance, as well as reactivate the vessels in Cambridge Bay and Paulatuk. Engineers and other workers in Tuktoyaktuk are also preparing Nunakput for reactivation. Mr. Speaker, we are set on our targets for sailing season. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last year the Minister said to the House that there would be a post-season evaluation. I understand that what went wrong to present the sailing schedule from last year? Considering the evaluation, can the Minister assure this House that MTS will reach all communities in Nunakput earlier than August this year and stick to the schedule? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we've made improvements. We have our "lessons learned" report. The plan is for us, for our tugs to leave August 15th from Tuk and, you know, we hope to get the Inuvialuit settlement region communities by the end of August. That's our plan, Mr. Speaker. However having said that, we are faced with some challenges, challenges including the fire in Hay River for example. You know, that set us back ten days. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Nunakput.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is vessels in the Beaufort Delta, in the Beaufort. I just want reassurance that the Minister and department make sure that the goods in regards for the communities. Again, I said earlier in my Member's statement the high cost of living in regards to carbon tax, we have to be able to make sure that everything that could be barged into the community makes it in. And so I want reassurance from this Minister, are they able? Because the ships are in the communities already, are they able to put -- get the goods into the communities quicker? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Marine Transportation Services has been working closely with Transport Canada as well as Canadian Coast Guard. These relationships are key to ensuring that MTS can try and keep as close as possible to the current planning for the 2023 sailing season.

Mr. Speaker, as the Member is aware, I am looking forward to coming into the Inuvialuit settlement communities in the next couple months, to be able to visit the communities. It would also be a good opportunity for me to talk to some of the leadership about any questions or concerns they have about our sailing season. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1543-19(2): Marine Transportation Services in Nunakput
Oral Questions

Page 6261

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Thebacha.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Premier tell us if Cabinet's new homelessness strategy titled A Way Home: A Comprehensive Strategy to Address Homelessness in the Northwest Territories, which will be tabled later today, will actually reduce the number of homeless people in the NWT? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6261

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Honourable Premier.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that yes, the hope is that with having a homelessness strategy that we will reduce the number of homeless people in the Northwest Territories. The strategy works best as an integrated approach, both internally but we recognize we also have to work with partners outside of the GNWT. Not only are we looking at trying to alleviate some of those that are potential of being homeless but also to address chronic homelessness so that people that are homeless will not be living on the streets for 10, 20, 30 years as I've seen in my experience. We do know that homelessness will never be eradicated completely but this strategy is to try to lessen, to try to lessen the chances that people will become homeless and lessen the time that people will be homeless. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6261

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, can the Premier explain what outcomes Cabinet is expecting to achieve with the introduction of this Government of the Northwest Territories homelessness strategy? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There's a number of things that we're trying to achieve within the homelessness strategy. I think the bigger one is to make sure that all departments in the Government of the Northwest Territories are actually working together instead of in silos, which we often see, making sure that people do have the wraparound support, the integrated case management that they need to succeed. Those are major objectives. But the other thing is data collection. And as I've said earlier, I've said many times, is that before I never realized the importance of data collection and so I always thought get the work done, nevermind about the data. But I was wrong, Mr. Speaker. And it's important to get data collection, not only to identify how many people are homeless but, as I've said earlier, is that since I've been in politics I'm seeing women on the street that have succeeded, that I knew that had been in the shelters for 20, 30 years and have become healthier, stopped whatever substances they were using, actually got into the field of helping people.

So we need the data to find out what worked with those people as well. We can't be doing services that we don't measure. So two things: Really integrated service, working together instead of in silos; and, making sure that we know what's working and what's not working and how many people we're dealing with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I understand the final version of the Government of the Northwest Territories homeless strategy will be tabled later today. So can the Premier explain why the Government of the Northwest Territories homeless strategy has taken this long to complete and finally be tabled? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I remember correctly, it was a commitment made by a housing Minister. I'm not sure if it was this government or the past one, I have a feeling it was the past one, that committed to doing the strategy. When that was said, I mean, because of my background being a social worker and working so long with these people, that I knew that it wasn't going to be just as easy as we've stated. So we soon realized that it wasn't only housing that was needed. It was housing, it was health that was important, it was justice, it was income support, education, culture and employment. The problem was, Mr. Speaker, is that we had two years of COVID and the same departments that needed to work on this strategy were struggling, working desperately to save the lives of people. So once COVID kind of subsided, we got a handle on it, it's not gone evidently, but once we got a handle on it then we've started to focus back on to this and it was brought to my attention, as I thought earlier, that it needed to be an all-of-government approach. So at that time then housing handed it over to myself as Premier for an all-of-government approach.

Mr. Speaker, it could have been done. I could have said that there was a strategy when I first tabled or brought forward the draft. But I realized really quickly that we didn't have the feedback that was needed. We did not ask the people, and I'm a huge advocate of asking the people that experience it. They have the expertise. So we took a step back and we spent time to actually interview people - NGOs, community governments, Indigenous people, the general public, and people with lived experience - so that we could actually have a more comprehensive strategy and the feedback from standing committee. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, can the Premier explain when Housing NWT is going to alleviate the number of people who are on the housing waiting list in Fort Smith and how a great solution to end homelessness, like the tiny home project from the Salt River Nation, be dealt with; and lastly, how all other communities around the NWT will be better served by this new strategy titled A Way Home? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since I'm in charge of the homelessness strategy, which is a governing thing, the questions I think are more related to day-to-day operations of homelessness so on that, the Minister responsible for Homelessness is responsible. I'd like to defer that question to her. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6262

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Minister responsible for Homelessness.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish it could be that easy, but we do have 33 communities throughout the Northwest Territories that we do have to provide adequate housing to as well. And looking at the housing wait list throughout the Northwest Territories, I want to say significant investment has been made throughout this government.

For the Member's riding, we do have -- just a second, sorry. We do have $3.1 million that will be invested into the Member's riding for this current year delivery and constructing four public housing units and repairing 41 housing units, and $542,000 for homeownership repair.

For the 2023-2024 fiscal year, we're looking at $2.6 million addressing also new construction of public housing units and money put into home repair as well.

And we are also still working with the Salt River First Nation as well too and the Fort Smith Metis Council as well. They were a part of the distinction-based funding that this government had supported. So the message going forward to Ottawa was if you're not going to fund the GNWT, then recognize those Indigenous agreements and fund the communities and the Indigenous governments directly.

So with that, Mr. Speaker, we are working very closely with the community of Fort Smith. I know that housing is a crisis throughout the Northwest Territories, but we are doing our best to address these issues as a government in whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1544-19(2): Government of the Northwest Territories Homelessness Strategy
Oral Questions

Page 6262

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Great Slave.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Infrastructure. Can the Minister tell us has the Fort Simpson LNG redesign plans or relocation plans been decided upon by the Northwest Territories Power Corporation board that Minister did promise last sitting. And if so, what are the significant changes; is there anything changing with respect to the location or the cost? Thank you.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Minister responsible for Infrastructure.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe I heard about four different questions in that. So I'm going to just add that this is an important project that we raised with the federal government in the context of funding.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Infrastructure and Northwest Territories Power Corporation continue to assess the optimal project approach which will form a future federal funding application to the feds. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So if I think I'm hearing right, that means that we actually have not put in the ask yet to the federal government for more money, which I was under the impression through the last few sittings that when the plan did not go ahead last fall, like when I asked, that it was because the government was getting more money.

Can the Minister clarify whether or not they have gone for more money for the LNG plant, or are they still preparing the application? Thank you.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker, we have funding for the LNG storage and power plant however we need to secure funding to move the current plant off the island. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My apologies for not understanding. I just don't find this to be very clear what has been going on. When I asked before, I think two sittings ago, what was going on, why the plant hadn't been started when the funding had already been announced for the LNG, the Minister told me they were going back to get more money from the federal government to create an entire LNG plant instead of the one that is supplemental to the diesel plant. Has that changed, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we're bringing some of the options to the board of directors meeting which is happening next month. That meeting will be able to determine some of the options and some of the federal funding that we need to apply for. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Great Slave.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Nokley

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I guess I am confused, but I did think that we were already in the path of getting more money. What I'm hearing does sound like it's now going to be at least a couple more years before there's any shovels in the ground on this project. And I can tell you 100 percent that that diesel plant is not going to make it five more years at minimum. The road has already been eroded away leading up to the side of it, and once you are not able to drive beside the road you have safety issues and even accessing the site. So can the Minister please tell me what she is doing to accelerate this project so that the people of Fort Simpson are not without power in four years? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the power corporation and infrastructure are working together to ensure that we have power in the community and, you know, as result of our meeting next month, I'm sure we would progress some of the plans. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1545-19(2): Fort Simpson Liquid Natural Gas Power Plant
Oral Questions

Page 6262

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Deh Cho.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6262

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are related to my Member's statement on the trades' safety tickets and their expiry dates.

Can the Minister responsible for Workers' Safety and Compensation Commission explain what organization or regulating bodies determine how long a certification is valid for and is there a rationale provided for that length of time? As a hypothetical example, why would chain saw safety be valid for three years, and another safety certificate be valid for five years? Mahsi.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6263

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Minister responsible for Workers' Safety and Compensation Commission.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The determination of the certificate's expiry is at the discretion of the developer or provider and often with the input from the relevant associations or committees, such as the Canadian Standards Association, expiration dates are usually based on extensive research that are put into the competencies of that person being trained. Some of the areas that are considered when setting expiration dates may be the risk of the work, how often is this task performed, how often do practices change in order to keep the training up to date.

The differences between the length of the certification is related to the competencies. Evidence of the association or committees show that the person will lose their knowledge and gain -- that would lose their knowledge and gain during the course of over a period of time and their competencies may diminish. Best practices and technology changes are considered. Shortened certification requirements help to ensure training is kept up to date. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is what role does Workers' Safety and Compensation Commission have in ensuring that safety certification expiry dates reflect the unique context of the NWT, including small communities? Mahsi.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Outside of first aid, WSCC does not have a role in the certification expiry dates. This would be the discretion of the provider such as the Northern Safety Association or other safety certificate providers. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister explain if it is possible for an individual to have the expiry date for their safety certificates extended beyond the expiry date without having to retake a course? Mahsi.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The only time this had occurred was during COVID when the person training was not able to be granted an extension under those circumstances. But other than that, first aid, which is legislated, is the discretionary decision made by those who have developed and provided that specific training. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6263

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Deh Cho.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when one takes a chain saw safety training course, you learn the safety aspects surrounding the use of the chain saw. You learn to fall the tree safely, when to use emergency chain lock, using Teflon chaps, safety glasses, and a helmet. So the next time you take the course three years later, it is all the same. The same thing with taking fall arrest training, elevated work platform training, confined spaces training, and first aid.

Can the Minister engage WSCC to look into removing the expiry dates for all safety tickets? Mahsi.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would have to bring this back to WSCC, but I want to assure the Member that we don't offer those training certificate programs for smaller communities and the programs that he has identified and looking at those terms and the expiry dates of those as well, too, that we don't have a say on when those certificates are going to be expired because we don't offer those programs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1546-19(2): Skilled Trades Safety Certifications
Oral Questions

Page 6263

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services. I want to continue the conversation that the Member for Thebacha started today in regards to homelessness, and I'd like to specifically focus on youth and specifically youth who are exiting the care of the government and who are entering homelessness.

Mr. Speaker, given the disproportionate representation of youth from or in the child and family services system experiencing homelessness in the NWT, will health and social services provide a dedicated navigator to solely provide wraparound care to youth who have aged out of care or are transitioning to independent living? Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6263

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question. I remember the Member's statement, and I wanted to localize the number of youth who have applied for support services agreements related to their housing situation. In 2021, that was 18 youth who applied for that out of a total of 68 youth who were in that program.

What I want to say is that as the Member may remember, the child and family services action plan is currently bridging between two plans but the new plan, which will be publicly released in August, will have a dedicated focus on youth supports as you might expect. And as part of this plan, the department is considering piloting specialized positions which will, of course, be subject to funding through the business plan process. So we're interested in the Member's recommendation as we work to provide better services to youth who are homeless. Thank you.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. And I appreciate that from the Minister. Mr. Speaker, other jurisdictions have acknowledged the challenges of youth exiting government care by creating legislation, policies, and resources to directly help youth transition from care. There are some creative solutions out there that help address this. One example that I wanted to highlight in the House today is agedout.com. It's a web page dedicated to BC young adults who have aged out of government care, and I really highly recommend people take a look at it.

Even within this website, Mr. Speaker, youth can apply for low income housing. The application is right there online, among many other resources. So I'm wondering if the GNWT will work with Home Base YK and the Foster Family Coalition to build resources for youth aging out of care to strategically stop the cycle into homelessness? Thank you.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, our concern is for youth who have some interaction with child and family services. I think the youth homelessness issue is bigger than that, and it does require a number of parties to come to the table to try and understand the scope of the problem and what the solutions are. I know that there are some resources available now. I'm not familiar with where the gaps are, but that is something that would obviously be useful not only here in Yellowknife, with the largest homelessness population, but in other regional centres. Thank you.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question was specific to youth aging out of care. Even when I was putting together my questions for today, I actually spent a lot of time looking around on the health and social services website. It's information about what youth have access to as far as funding support, access to housing; none of this is available online. So any youth who is exiting care that wants autonomy in being able to figure out what services they have available, this doesn't exist right now. And it certainly doesn't exist in a venue that is targeted directly to these youth. And so that is exactly what I'm asking for, is resources specific to youth aging out of care.

My next question, though, Mr. Speaker, and maybe the Minister will want to speak to this in the same breath is will health and social services commit to including a provision in the upcoming revamp, or bill that's being brought forward in the next Assembly, to the Child and Family Services Act that specifically calls for health and social services to offer suitable housing options as a mandatory clause for youth exiting care. So will they turn around and offer a provision of suitable housing for youth who are transitioning from care of the government? Thank you.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will certainly make a point of looking at the website agedout.com.

In terms of the Child and Family Services Act, we have received recommendations from the Member and from the social development committee. I'm not in a position to make a commitment that binds the 20th Assembly to what will be in the revision of the Child and Family Services Act. But, of course, we will be doing a transition document and I can include it in that. Thank you.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6263

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final short supplementary. Member for Kam Lake.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6263

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Short is not my skill set, Mr. Speaker. No, Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that we can't bind the next government but this is an opportunity to really call on the government to focus on housing and addressing youth homelessness for youth aging out of care in the legislative proposal that comes forward from the government. And I think that this is something that's needed when asking -- you know, we heard a question today about whether or not this homelessness strategy is actually going to solve homelessness. This is something very specific and very strategic that the government can do to address homelessness. And so I highly recommend doing this.

I guess what I'd like to leave this with is will the government, as part of their business plan that's coming forward in August, include a youth aging out of care focused portal where youth can actually access resources, information, applications, in order to have control in their lives as they're aging out of care and understand what they are able to access in order to make that transition smooth and successful? Thank you.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that would be a great topic to bring up with the 20th Assembly who will be doing the next business plan for the 2024-2025 fiscal year. I think that some of this is a coordination effort. I know that Home Base Yellowknife does enable people to get into leases with landlords and sets youth up in their own housing. I'm not sure whether there is enough of that to make a difference. I think that some youth need significant wraparound resources to be successful as tenants. And so I think all of those are very worthy of consideration. I think for youth as, with any other person, that having housing stabilizes their situation and enables them to deal with some fundamental issues that may be disrupting their lives and to put them on a path to greater success, and I think that that's what we all want. Thank you.

Question 1547-19(2): Housing for Youth Aging Out of Care
Oral Questions

Page 6264

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Question 1548-19(2): Indian Day Schools
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there's been a lot of work done to date in regards to dealing with Aboriginal people in Canada, and we have the Royal Commission Report, we have the Truth and Reconciliation Report. There's a lot of recommendations that were brought forward and recommendations that talks about reconciliation and public apology. And right now my questions are to the Honourable Premier and as follow up to the unresolved matter of the federal Indian Day Schools that I raised in March of 2023 here in the House.

Mr. Speaker, will the Premier acknowledge that abuse continued to happen after the federal day school program was transferred to the GNWT on April 1st, 1969? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1548-19(2): Indian Day Schools
Oral Questions

Page 6264

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Madam Premier.

Question 1548-19(2): Indian Day Schools
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can't acknowledge that because I haven't -- this is the first I've gotten that question with no head's up so I don't know the experiences of students after the GNWT. So what I'd like to propose is that the Member perhaps sit down with myself, and preferably the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, maybe the three of us, to discuss the issues and see what the solutions might be. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1548-19(2): Indian Day Schools
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yeah, I look forward to sitting down and having a good discussion on this because, you know, you already know that the Prime Minister of Canada already apologized, and we also had the Pope also apologize, for what happened at the Indian Day School here in Canada. And so we need to talk about that and we need to look at a process, but at the same time if we could have that discussion and agree on doing a public apology. You know, this is a good time to do it because we have Aboriginal Day coming up on June 21st. We have all the assemblies happening already throughout the summer. And I think we should maybe really take a look at that.

So anyways, I think maybe my question is to my other -- sorry, the Premier is just exactly what I just said, is that maybe somebody could work together and try and look on those dates. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1548-19(2): Indian Day Schools
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, I can't give a commitment to offer any kind of an apology or set a deadline when I'm not aware of the issues concerning. So, again, I'd go back to my first offer to have a meeting with the Minister of education and myself and the Member to discuss what the concerns are and move forward from there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1548-19(2): Indian Day Schools
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I'm surprised that, you know, it's 1969, it's only, like, 40 some odd -- or 45 years ago that nobody in the GNWT system, or in this House, has ever raised this issue. It's an issue that's outstanding that needs to be addressed. And it just boggles my mind that, you know, here I am talking about it today and it never showed up on your radars as the Premier here in the Northwest Territories. But regardless, you know, the transfer happened on April 1st, 1969, to the territorial government, and I'm also probably one of the students that were strapped, along with many of our colleagues around the table here. So that issue we need to talk about. And I'm not sure maybe how we want to approach on this. Sitting down maybe one thing but I need to get action. Whether we have a committee or have a committee of Aboriginal groups here, of leaders in the Northwest Territories to talk about it; we got to do something. And it's outstanding. So I just want to see if I get a commitment from the Premier on maybe -- sitting down is one thing but maybe strike a committee, because this is a very important issue because all the issues that we've been talking about around the table here today speaks to the health department etcetera.

But the thing is that we don't have enough money, whether it be for housing or health and social, to deal with these issues. So we need to look at a new approach to work with the Government of Canada to find monies to address this. And it's a big problem but I got to figure a way to try and look at this issue so maybe the Premier could maybe shed light on that. Mahsi.

Question 1548-19(2): Indian Day Schools
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Because I don't have the background on this, and I haven't heard it in my previous almost eight years of being in this House, it could have been raised before, but I'd like to take notice on this question, Mr. Speaker, so that we can get the information necessary. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1548-19(2): Indian Day Schools
Oral Questions

Page 6264

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Oral questions. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Question 1549-19(2): Preventative Dental Services
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services. And one of the questions I have is related to preventative services. So can the Minister explain to us how many dental therapists does the Northwest Territories have currently on staff now, or if there's dental therapists, dental hygienists, and where are they located? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1549-19(2): Preventative Dental Services
Oral Questions

Page 6264

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Question 1549-19(2): Preventative Dental Services
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I appreciate the Member giving me notice on this so I could get that specific information. There are three dental therapists located in Fort Simpson, Fort McPherson, and Inuvik. There is a dental hygienist located in Fort Smith. There is a territorial specialist who is a licensed dental hygienist who provides frontline service to communities and is located in Yellowknife. And we also have dental hygienists who work on casual rotations to fill vacancies. Thank you.

Question 1549-19(2): Preventative Dental Services
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, you know, I want to say I think -- I'm not sure if it's one or two of the dental therapists that we have, but just doing some reading on this over this last little while working on dental. This has been a big issue, and I was surprised to know that we actually had a dental therapy school in Fort Smith in 1972 that was opened that train local dental therapists free of charge so that they could go back to their communities, and I'm just wondering if we still have any of those dental therapists in the territory. You know, this is -- I just wanted to put that out there because that was good thinking.

So for the communities that don't have dental therapists or dental hygienists, does the Minister know how often that service is provided to each community? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1549-19(2): Preventative Dental Services
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Page 6264

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Member for that additional information. I don't know if any of these therapists are ones who were trained in Fort Smith. I would hope that they would have retired by now but, you know, you never know. So, we have staff assigned to go to communities that don't have therapists or hygienists twice a school year. That's the benchmark of service. Sometimes, I will say upfront, we don't meet that because of staffing and travel-related issues and school cancellations. But that's what our benchmark is.

Last year the Beaufort Delta and Sahtu regions did not have the correct number of visits, unfortunately. But on the other side, three communities were added that had not been previously seen by the GNWT, and those communities are Lutselk'e, N'dilo, and Dettah. Thank you.

Question 1549-19(2): Preventative Dental Services
Oral Questions

Page 6264

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Minister for that information. So I know that the government -- and I think we've had this discussion in the House, the government does get federal funding to fly in dentists into small communities so that they are able to get dental care into the communities. And I'm just wondering, and I did send the Minister, like, the approval, what's authorized. And I'm just going to -- I'm not going to worry about 17 and over right now, even though that is a big issue, but 17 and under, like a recall exam/polishing is one in every six months. So I'm just wondering if the dentists that we're consulting and with the hygienists, are we even meeting these needs for our Indigenous communities, our kids under 17 in our communities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1549-19(2): Preventative Dental Services
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Page 6265

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think that what the Member is talking about is the contracting that GNWT does on behalf of Indigenous Services Canada for NIHB. And so we let those contracts and they are primarily for travel costs - they are for travel costs. The dentist needs to get approval from NIHB for the services provided. And in terms of the services that they do provide, as the Member knows there is a pre-approval process, and the dentists make their own determination of what service is most required by the patient. That's not something that we have oversight over. Although I will say we license dentists and we also supervise the complaint process. But in terms of what the dentist decides to do with the patient in the chair, that's on the dentist. Thank you.

Question 1549-19(2): Preventative Dental Services
Oral Questions

Page 6265

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And so, Mr. Speaker, you know, I could -- you know, I could highlight in probably three Member's statements on the article that I read and the history of dental therapy in Canada, and it looked at how Indigenous communities were lacking any oral preventative services. And so they came up with plans, and the plans were to train locals, send them back to their communities, and here we are again with no dental therapy schools and, you know, we've got a bill in front of the Minister. So now I just want to know if the Minister will look at other ways to ensure that preventative care is being completed in all communities and are making sure that these targets are met in all these communities that NIHB has outlined in what their approval schedule is for this? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1549-19(2): Preventative Dental Services
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Page 6265

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you for the question. I think the first thing that we need to do is meet the benchmark of two visits to each school each year. That would be a great start. We have had real trouble recruiting both dentists and dental hygienists in the Northwest Territories. And we have, of course, not given up on doing that but when we put out the requests for proposal in March, we got zero results. And the result is of that is that we are severely underserved by dental health specialists, and that's across the board. And I know that people can go to their health centre and ask to have service in a location where a dentist is and have their medical travel paid there. That's not a great solution, but it is one potential solution. It's not helped by the fact that in Inuvik, the dental clinic seems to be staffed intermittently and by locums. It's difficult to have a continuity of service there.

So I recognize that this has had an impact on preventative care, and it's a problem. If the Member has any ideas about how we can do more to recruit dentists and fill those contracts with -- pardon me, recruit dental hygienists to do the school work, even on a locum basis, and how to attract dentists to doing this work, I'm certainly very interested to hear it. And I'll look up the website on the history of dental therapy.

I don't really understand why this profession has fallen by the wayside and has been taken over by dental hygienists. I think there's some scope of practice issues there. I did hear however, last week, that the University of Saskatchewan was considering relaunching their dental therapy school which might, in the end, be of benefit to us. Thank you.

Question 1549-19(2): Preventative Dental Services
Oral Questions

Page 6265

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
Oral Questions

Page 6265

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. My questions are for the Minister of Environment and Climate Change on the review of the Project Assessment Policy. The Minister committed to have the review completed in December of 2022 in response to my written questions in March of 2022.

Can the Minister tell us the status of that review and whether the work to revise this antiquated and regressive policy will be done in the 19th Assembly? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
Oral Questions

Page 6265

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister responsible for Environment and Climate Change.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
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Page 6265

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I could quickly say yes but expand it a little bit further. The Member is correct; the Department of Lands had completed an initial review of the Project Assessment Policy when we merged lands and ENR. Further work on the policy has continued through the Department of ECC. And as I've said the Project Assessment Policy will be revised before the end of this Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
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Page 6265

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. Well, that's the good news. I'm just kind of waiting for the bad news now, but. In response to the written question I submitted in the House in March, the Minister said there would not be any public engagement work with Indigenous governments on the review of the policy. We have, you know, public engagements on such mundane matters as renaming the old Stanton Hospital, a product survey, you know, for liquor and cannabis, but we're not going to ask the public about how GNWT should be involved in environmental assessment of major projects? I just don't get it.

Can the Minister explain why the department does not want to seek public input into revising the Project Assessment Policy? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
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Page 6265

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct, in my written response I said no, we're not going to do public. But, Mr. Speaker, the Project Assessment Policy already exists and is being updated based on feedback and concerns shared by boards, IGIOs, and the public, during the Tlicho All-Season Road and the Giant Mine process. The Project Assessment Policy is an internal policy that defines how the GNWT works internally among departments for project assessments and will continue where the government is the proponent. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
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Page 6265

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. So a key feature of the devolution agreement was the establishment of an Intergovernmental Council to allow the public and Indigenous governments to corporate and collaborate on matters related to lands and resources management. And, Mr. Speaker, that sentence is taken directly from the IGC website.

So can the Minister explain why his department does not intend to work with Intergovernmental Council in reviewing the Project Assessment Policy? Thanks, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
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Page 6265

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated just on the last question, this policy defines how the GNWT works internally for the project assessments. Again, it's an internal document. The policy is, again, about the GNWT's -- on how the GNWT organizes work together among departments for environmental assessments prior to making any submissions to co-management boards. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
Oral Questions

Page 6265

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Frame Lake.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
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Page 6265

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. This may be an internal document, but it's public interest. I've raised this numerous times in the House, and it does involve expenditure of public monies as well. You know, this government has taken a keen interest in large infrastructure projects; it seemed part of Cabinet's mandate. GNWT's going to increasingly become a proponent in environmental assessment. And this Project Assessment Policy seems to be aimed at controlling the presentation of evidence and expert opinion that is not consistent with Cabinet's views.

So can the Minister tell us whether this government is really committed to evidence-based decisions and how will that be implemented in the context of GNWT-sponsored projects and related decision-making? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
Oral Questions

Page 6265

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And, Mr. Speaker, I thank the Member for the question. The government is committed to evidence-based decisions. There is nothing in the Project Assessment Policy that prevents the presentation of evidence or expert opinions in the co-management process. Currently the GNWT, led by the Department of ECC, is working to define how the GNWT can be more transparent in environmental assessments, including decision-making of the GNWT projects. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1550-19(2): Project Assessment Policy Review
Oral Questions

Page 6265

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Question 1551-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Oral Questions

Page 6265

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister responsible for housing. Can the Minister tell us when the Fort Good Hope Seniors Centre is going to open? Thank you.

Question 1551-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Oral Questions

Page 6265

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for Housing NWT.

Question 1551-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Oral Questions

Page 6265

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, thank you, to the Member for this question. I know he's been advocating, and he's been asking the question over and over. And I just want a drum roll. I'm excited, I am happy to say the nine-plex in Fort Good Hope, the seniors complex, will be open and people are moving in tomorrow. So we did stick to our date of June 1st. And we won't be having an official opening. We've already had that already, as the Member had said.

And I want to thank the Member for constantly advocating because seniors in the Northwest Territories is very important. We need to get units in the smaller communities as well. Also the staff as well for looking at this project, the Sahtu district office, the local housing authority. The community is very excited and very happy for this to come forward. And also, I'm very happy to fulfill one of the Member's questions and what he was bringing forward. So we've met the date of June 1st. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1551-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Oral Questions

Page 6265

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very happy to hear that, and I'm sure all of the people moving in tomorrow are even happier. Great news.

I guess my question, in a bit more serious tone though, is that this has taken a couple of years. We still haven't, on the public record, figured out exactly what happened. I know there were some contractor disputes. There were some inspection issues. But do we have a figure now about what all of this cost us in extra dollars? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1551-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Oral Questions

Page 6266

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Member for asking the question. But I just don't want to shed any -- I don't want to take away the excitement. But the project originally cost us $3.5 million. But we learned a lot of issues that we could have dealt with prior to a project like this rolling out. We do support local contractors. We do support building capacity. And unfortunately, in this case, we did see some issues that we could have addressed earlier. We own it as Housing NWT. We owe it to be supporting local businesses. This does not discourage us in going forward. But presently, this project is tied up in litigation right now. And it's going back and forth. I just don't want to take that away but just reassure the public and reassure the Member, housing has learned from this, and we will be improving our relationship with our local contractors. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1551-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Oral Questions

Page 6266

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recognize that when there's contractor litigation that, you know, we don't quite know that. I guess I'm looking for a commitment that at some point the housing could release some public information on this. What we often do is we sign NDAs and we add a few more million dollars on to the project and then no one will say anything about that. And it's happened many times in this Assembly, and I would not want this to be a case. I think it is a project that is -- the Minister said there are lessons learned. I would like to see what those lessons learned. And I think that at the end of the day, we owe it to public to know what the final dollar figure was on this building. So can the Minister take that back and try to find a way that we will actually say, at some point, what this cost us in millions of dollars? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1551-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Oral Questions

Page 6266

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Member for the question. And like several of our programs -- I mean, our infrastructure builds throughout the Northwest Territories, I also want to acknowledge that we are still able to commence construction even during COVID and the restrictions, and I'm proud to say that housing was able to fulfill this contract and being able to get this build completed and done. And also recognizing that this number is not going to be $3.5 million. It's going to increase obviously. And those numbers and this situation is brought before the courts. Once a decision is made, I will be able to provide that information to the Member but it's not going to be by the time we're done this government. But it will be provided. And like I had said that we have learned a lot of lessons during this process as well too. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1551-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Oral Questions

Page 6266

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Question 1551-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Oral Questions

Page 6266

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to let you know that I'll be tabling my Member's statement and questions tomorrow as written statements -- written questions so I could get my questions answered because I didn't get a full answer here today. But, again, I just want to add one question to the Premier that I'd like to have that commitment.

Question 1551-19(2): Fort Good Hope Seniors' Centre
Oral Questions

Page 6266

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, that line of questioning was taken on notice so you can't ask any further questions on that. Oral questions. Member for Thebacha.

Question 1552-19(2): Fort Smith Airport Safety
Oral Questions

Page 6266

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Infrastructure. Can the Minister of Infrastructure confirm that the runway at the Fort Smith Airport is fully aligned with federal safety standards and that it's fully safe and operational for both government and civilian aircraft to use? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1552-19(2): Fort Smith Airport Safety
Oral Questions

Page 6266

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister responsible for Infrastructure.

Question 1552-19(2): Fort Smith Airport Safety
Oral Questions

Page 6266

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member from Thebacha is very concerned about her airport, and I respect that she's bringing forward this question to me because there was some confusion last week on the Fort Smith Airport.

I can confirm for the Member that the Fort Smith runway was always fully operational and it's able to accommodate all civilian and commercial aircrafts up to and including the Boeing 737, the Airbus 8320s, all in accordance with Transport Canada regulations. Mr. Speaker, I thank the Member for that question, just to clarify that, you know -- and if there was something wrong with the airport, the Member will be the first one to call me to be able to clarify. So I didn't get a phone call. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1552-19(2): Fort Smith Airport Safety
Oral Questions

Page 6266

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

I don't have any other question, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1552-19(2): Fort Smith Airport Safety
Oral Questions

Page 6266

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Question 1553-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

Page 6266

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in this day and age about 40 percent of youth between the age of 20 and 29 still live at home across Canada because it's very expensive cost of living out there. Housing is hard to come by. And some youth just need to stay at home longer for educational purposes. And some youth, our kids just don't want to leave home, Mr. Speaker, and that's fine. Not all youth have this ability to stay at home or to stay with their foster families. And so I'd like to ask the Minister responsible for Homelessness if he's willing to work on a youth portal that youth can access, and the starting point of that portal can be access for things like housing or how to get your ID or how to access different supports you might have access to.

So I'm wondering if the Minister responsible for Homelessness is willing to work on this type of a portal to serve youth? Thank you.

Question 1553-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

Page 6266

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible for Homelessness.

Question 1553-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

Page 6266

Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Member for the question. I hear her passion addressing housing for youth. I will have to speak with my -- and talk with my colleague, Minister of health, and look at what initiatives that we do presently have. But as of right now, I just have to follow up with my colleague in respect. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1553-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I was wondering if that question could be addressed to the Minister responsible for Youth.

Question 1553-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Okay. Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible for Youth.

Question 1553-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. I'm in housing now? Okay. Youth housing. Can the Member re-ask the question because I thought it was going to housing. Thank you.

Question 1553-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Question 1554-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would really love to see a portal created for youth so that youth have access to information that they're looking for. So I'm wondering if the Minister responsible for Youth is willing to work on a portal so that youth can access stuff like applications for housing, low income housing, applications for identification; there could be a link to information on student financial assistance. The options are endless. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1554-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible for Youth.

Question 1554-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

Page 6266

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Gee whiz, I'm going to have to say yes to this. It's a very good suggestion by the Member; I greatly appreciate that. But it's just not going to be the Minister responsible for Youth. I'm going to have to work with my colleagues from housing, my colleague from health, and my colleague from ECE. And I have ECC on my plate. So, yeah, we are more than willing to work on this. This is something that's going to be an all-of-government approach. So I thank the Member for making this great suggestion, and we will work on doing that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1554-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and thank you very much to the Minister for that. I'm wondering if the Minister will prioritize reaching out to the Minister of Health and Social Services and prioritizing working on the pieces that would be of most help to youth in care and youth aging out of care? Thank you.

Question 1554-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Oh man, I don't know, another yes. Don't say no, okay. I will make the commitment that I'll work with all my colleagues because it's just not health and social services, it's ECE and housing. So we need to have that approach. My colleagues have heard the question here and the staff that are hearing this, we'll be reaching out to my colleagues, the staff there, and we'll start working on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1554-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. And I would like to say thank you to the other side. I think that there's great opportunity that can come from this, especially for youth who are aging out of care. I'm wondering if the Minister will commit to tabling a status report on this in the following sitting? Thank you.

Question 1554-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

That I cannot make a guarantee on. We're going to have work on it. I mean, she got a couple yeses out of me, this one here is going to be the reality is we're going to work on it. If we are able to table something, we will. But right now, it's some work that has to be done. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1554-19(2): Online Portal for Youth Accessing Services
Oral Questions

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Colleagues, our time for oral questions has expired. Written questions. Returns to written questions. Replies to the Commissioner's address. Petitions. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Reports of standing and special committees. Tabling of documents. Madam Premier.

Tabled Document 946-19(2): A Way Home: A Comprehensive Strategy to Address Homelessness in the Northwest Territories Tabled Document 947-19(2): Follow-up Letter to Oral Question 1461-19(2): Northwest Territories/Alberta Transboundary Water Agreement Tabled Document 948-19(2): Follow-up Letter to Oral Question 1492-19(2): Income Assistance Tabled Document 949-19(2): Follow-up Letter to Oral Question 1493-19(2): Federal Ministers Meeting with Regular Members
Tabling Of Documents

Page 6267

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following four documents: A Way Home: A Comprehensive Strategy to Address Homelessness in the Northwest Territories; Follow-up Letter for Oral Question 1461-19(2): Northwest Territories/Alberta Transboundary Water Agreement; Follow-up Letter for Oral Question 1492-19(2): Income Assistance; and, Follow-up Letter for Oral Question 1493-19(2): Federal Ministers Meeting with Regular Members. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 946-19(2): A Way Home: A Comprehensive Strategy to Address Homelessness in the Northwest Territories Tabled Document 947-19(2): Follow-up Letter to Oral Question 1461-19(2): Northwest Territories/Alberta Transboundary Water Agreement Tabled Document 948-19(2): Follow-up Letter to Oral Question 1492-19(2): Income Assistance Tabled Document 949-19(2): Follow-up Letter to Oral Question 1493-19(2): Federal Ministers Meeting with Regular Members
Tabling Of Documents

Page 6267

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Tabling of documents. Member for Kam Lake.

Tabled Document 950-19(2): C.D. Howe Institute, Commentary No. 595, Aggressive Incrementalism: Strengthening the Foundations of Canada's Approach to Childcare
Tabling Of Documents

Page 6267

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the C.D. Howe Report Institute, Commentary No. 595, Aggressive Incrementalism: Strengthening the Foundations of Canada's Approach to Childcare. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 950-19(2): C.D. Howe Institute, Commentary No. 595, Aggressive Incrementalism: Strengthening the Foundations of Canada's Approach to Childcare
Tabling Of Documents

Page 6267

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Tabling of documents. Notices of motion. Member for Thebacha.

Motion 82-19(2): Extended Adjournment of the House to August 16, 2023
Notices Of Motion

Page 6267

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, June 2nd, 2023, I will move the following motion:

I move, second by the honourable Member for Hay River North, that when this House adjourns on Friday, June 2nd, 2023, it shall be adjourned until Wednesday, August 16, 2023;

And furthermore, that at any time prior to August 16, 2023, if the Speaker is satisfied, after consultation with the Executive Council and Members of the Legislative Assembly, that the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during the adjournment, or at a time later than scheduled resumption of the House, the Speaker may give notice and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as if it had been duly adjourned to that time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 82-19(2): Extended Adjournment of the House to August 16, 2023
Notices Of Motion

Page 6267

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Notices of motion. Motions. Notices of motion for the first reading of bills. Notices of motion for the first reading of bills. First reading of bills. Minister responsible for Finance.

Bill 92: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products and Carbon Tax Act, No. 3
First Reading Of Bills

Page 6267

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I wish to present to the House Bill 92, An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products and Carbon Tax Act, No. 3, to be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 92: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products and Carbon Tax Act, No. 3
First Reading Of Bills

Page 6267

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. First reading of bills. Second reading of bills. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 23, 29, and 90, Minister's Statement 264-19(2), Tabled Document 681-19(2), Tabled Document 940 and 941-19(2), with Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes in the chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I now call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Madame la Presidente. Committee wishes to consider Bill 90 and Tabled Document 940-19(2). Mahsi.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We will take a short recess and resume with the first item.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, we have agreed to consider Bill 90: An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act No. 5. I will ask the sponsor of the bill, Member for Kam Lake, to make opening remarks.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I am pleased to speak to Bill 90, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 5, in my capacity as a Member of the Board of Management.

Members accepted the recommendation of the independent commission on Members' pay and benefits to reduce the base salary for Regular Members by $4,000. A Regular Member can earn back this $4,000 through participation on two standing committees. This bill allows for this $4,000 to be increased at the same rate as the base salary for Members to ensure that the base rate between Regular Members and Members of Cabinet remains the same. These changes will take effect in the 20th Assembly and do not change the pay and benefits of current Members. That concludes my remarks on Bill 90. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake, would you like to bring witnesses into the Chamber?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Yes, please.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Member for Kam Lake, please introduce your witness.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, to my left is Glen Rutland, Clerk of the Legislative Assembly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Welcome. I will now open the floor to general comments on Bill 90. Are there any general comments? Does committee agree that there are no general comments?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Can we proceed to the clause-by-clause review of the bill?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, we will defer the bill number and title until after consideration of the clauses. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn to page 1 of the bill. Clause 1, does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 2, does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Clause 3, does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Committee, returning to the bill number and title, Bill 90, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 5, does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, to the bill as a whole, does committee agree that Bill 90, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 5, is now ready for third reading?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that this concludes our consideration of Bill 90, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 5?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6267

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Thank you, Member, and thank you to your witness. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witness from the Chamber.

Committee, we've agreed to consider Tabled Document 940-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024. Does the Minister of Finance have any opening remarks?

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I am happy to present the Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024.

The infrastructure supplementary estimates propose a total increase of $124.5 million comprised of the following items:

• $129.5 million for infrastructure expenditures funding for projects that were not completed in 2022-2023. This amount is fully offset by lapses in appropriations in 2022-2023;

• A decrease of $9.6 million to reflect changes in the timing of planned expenditures for the Frank Channel Bridge replacement project;

• $2.2 million to purchase a Dual Seat Fireboss aircraft for wildfire management. This amount is partially offset by revenues received from the federal government;

• $1.6 million to undertake planning and scoping work for the Territorial Fire Centre; and,

• $500,000 to purchase a loader for the Fort Smith Airport. This funding is fully offset by revenues received from the federal government.

This concludes my opening remarks. Madam Chair, I would be happy to answer any questions that Members may have.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Do you wish to bring witnesses into the House?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, please, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6268

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Minister, will you introduce your witnesses, please.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, with me today, on my left, is Bill MacKay, the deputy minister of finance. And on my right is Terence Courtoreille, the deputy secretary to the financial management board.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I will now open the floor for general comments. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Can I just get a sense of how much money was lapsed in the 2022-2023 fiscal year on the capital side? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So total amount expected to be lapsed would be $54 million roughly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thank you. How much in this capital sup is actually carryovers? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6268

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So that is $129,652,000.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. So were there any projects that were lapsed that are not carried forward, and where would we find that information and the total? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6268

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, let me turn that to Mr. Courtoreille. He may have that information available.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. There is a total of $2.7 million in projects that are not being carried over and being lapsed. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks. So I think I heard $2.7 million. That doesn't seem to jive with the information we have available to us, but yeah, is that information publicly available somewhere? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, with respect to project -- sorry, let me turn that one to the deputy minister if I could, please. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Mackay

Thank you, Madam Chair. If I understand the question correctly, the question was -- maybe I could just ask for clarification. Do you want to know what projects specifically are not being -- are lapsing or not being completed, or do you want to know how much money that represents? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I believe it's the amount. Just to confirm, Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, I'm sorry, I don't know how we've managed to lose the train of thought here. I think we were looking for one answer and then another question came in. So can I just get -- I'm sorry, but what is the question that we're looking for the answer on now, please.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Frame Lake, can you just repeat your question in full.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair, while the clock is ticking. I guess I wanted to know how much of the capital estimates that were approved in 2022-2023 were not carried over and where does the public find out this information, like the amount as well as a list of the projects? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, any changes to the capital plan from last year haven't been approved so there's nothing new available. Obviously, as new items are approved for -- I mean, obviously if the supplementary appropriations get approved, then those changes can be made and they'd be -- they could be reflected, but at this point it's difficult to make something public that's not yet actually a fact. Obviously as we go forward, every time there's a new capital plan that certainly has to be updated for that, you know, going forward this August when we have a new capital plan, the state of projects would have to be updated at that point in order to be approved for 2024-2025. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Okay, thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, this is really murky. So I think I'm going to move on because I'm not really getting answers here. But if this supplementary appropriation is approved, what's the total capital funding then that the Legislative Assembly's authorized for 2023-2024? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I know we have that total here. Let me start with the deputy minister, and we will have that available.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Deputy minister MacKay.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Mackay

So thank you, Madam Chair. The total -- so the total capital budget now will be approximately $534 million. I'm just looking for the exact amount. But maybe, Terence, do you have that?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Mr. Courtoreille.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. So the total approved capital budget for 2023-2024 is $326 million. And if the current proposed carryover of $129 million is approved, it would be added to that $326 million. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks. I wasn't -- didn't have any calculator but we're talking about $500 million. So how does this differ from the capital estimates and the sups that have been happening in the past when, you know, I think this is where -- we're in the same ballpark now, when the new Fiscal Responsibility Policy was supposed to impose like a $260 million cap on capital spending. And so now the department's asking us to approve sups that are going to push it up over that amount; am I getting this correct? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the Fiscal Responsibility Policy isn't where the cap on the capital projects came in. That is an approach towards capital planning that we had imposed to put a cap on department spending of $260 million. That was introduced in 2023-2024, but it didn't exist in prior years, and it certainly didn't exist under the past Assembly, which is where a lot of projects wind up moving forward. So to the extent that if we hadn't put that cap in 2023-2024 and the 2023-2024 budget had started out much higher as it had been over the two, three, and many years before that, we'd be looking at a much higher total envelope. So, you know, to begin with, you know, that's still the good news of the cap that was put in. And it's going to be continuing going forward, and we'll start to see the fruits of those labours where there's less to be carried over because the capital plan from a starting point is not as big as it was. But -- I don't have a clock here in front of me so I'm trying to be conscious of the time but, you know, asking about where that's -- that cap is still there, and it's going to move forward. But there are some things that were carried forward because the cap wasn't imposed in the past, and the budget was very big in the past with a lot of projects sitting on the books. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, okay thanks. If I wasn't confused before, now I am. But look, what we're being asked to do then is approve a whole bunch of carryovers which means we're not getting money out the door, and I don't know why, but if the Minister wants to talk about that, that's fine. But we're not getting money out the door, we're being asked to approve more money that's probably not going to get out the door even this summer, so. And I think it's probably going to exceed this cap.

What's the purpose of having a cap when we're going to go over it again and again and again? So I'm going to have a lot of difficulty voting in favour of this, Madam Chair, just because we're being asked to approve more money that's not going to get out the door, and I think we need to be much more careful about this because the more money we spend on capital, the more -- the bigger the operating surplus has to be which means you got to cut back on programs and services for our citizens and I just don't think that's a good way to operate. And I've been very critical of this government from the beginning, even in the last Assembly, about over budgeting on capital projects. And that's exactly what this is all about.

But I want to ask the Minister is there anywhere in that -- are we still going to be in compliance with the Fiscal Responsibility Policy if this is approved? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we spent $285 million in 2022-2023, which actually is a pretty significant amount when you compare it to what was being spent over ten years before that. And particularly considering those are post-COVID years that a lot of challenges were being faced, both private sector and public sector.

Madam Chair, at this point we would reconcile -- we reconcile the Fiscal Responsibility Policy in the fall. I have -- and we do track it over time, and we'll be seeing the most recent up to date numbers when we come forward with the capital budget in August.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. I guess I'm asking the Minister, then, to prepare a page in each of the supplementary estimates as they come forward, and this should be a public document, maybe as an appendix or something, that demonstrates that even with the approval of the supplementary estimate, the GNWT's going to remain in compliance with the Fiscal Responsibility Policy. Is that something the Minister is prepared to do moving forward? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I will be happy to do that, something to that effect moving forward. And that was our intention with the capital plan for August, and we can certainly do that when there's infrastructure sups as well. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any questions? Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I share some of my colleague from Frame Lake's frustrations. I think one of the issues is that the capital estimates and the supplementary estimates are, you know, financial documents created for public accounting purposes and they're really bad documents to try and figure out what is going on with our construction projects. I think an ideal system would be some sort of portal that would list all of the things we're building, when it was tendered, when it's being carried over, perhaps a reason why it's got delayed and ultimately showing when something is completed and falls off the books. I believe the Department of Infrastructure has been promising some sort of tracking beyond just, you know, these capital budgetary documents for a while now. Do we have any update on something like that coming into existence? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair, Madam Chair, all I am able to say is to confirm that indeed that does seem like a very good idea, that there is something being worked on, and hopefully it will be in place -- well, I can't give a timeline for it to be in place. It's not an initiative necessarily of the Department of Finance but I can commit to getting a timeline to committee. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, and I do think that the Department of Finance prepares a briefing note for every single one of these line items that they share in confidence and it doesn't exist publicly, I think a lot of that information would probably save a lot of frustration of us asking the questions to just bring out basic facts on the record. But since we don't have that, I will ask some of those basic facts throughout.

Beginning with I have a different calculation of how much money we lapsed. It was quite a lot more than $2.7 million. But I guess I'll start with can someone tell me what projects $2.7 million we lapsed? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, let me go to Mr. Courtoreille and see if he can -- if he has a breakdown available and if not, we can provide it to committee. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I'm happy to read this out but I am mindful of time. And I'm in your hands, ma'am, if you want me to read it out, I can, or we can provide a summary.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

If you want -- Member, did you want to use up your time and have him read it out, the list?

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, I -- well, I guess, how many projects did we lapse and can we table it in the House or report this somewhere publicly or if not, then read it out. However it gets out publicly. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Will the Minister -- yes, will the Minister commit to putting this out publicly?

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

That's fine, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Okay, Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you. Yeah, it's tough. I guess the ones that I would have -- can I get some explanation, perhaps generally, about why we're lapsing things? Sometimes I understand we have to lapse millions of dollars because it doesn't meet the category for a carryover, but the actual project will go forward. We just didn't get the contract in place so it didn't meet FMB approval and it will get back on the list. And sometimes my understanding is we go out for tender on something, it shows up over budget, and we lapse it and it falls off the capital plan. We are no longer ever going ahead with that project despite the Legislative Assembly having previously approved some starting budget for it.

So my question there is, is there any projects that were previously approved that will just not be going ahead and they have fallen off the capital plan? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, there certainly are some projects that may not have advanced in 2022-2023 that have not necessarily been removed from the infrastructure acquisition plan and may then still be on that plan, which I would draw a difference of when we see the capital estimates and -- so they may -- again, we may be adjusting the capital estimates from 2022-2023 but still seeing a project on the infrastructure acquisition plan. I'll pause there, but I can also turn it to Mr. Courtoreille if the Member would like to have a greater detailed example or detailed description. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thanks, Madam Chair. And just to follow up, previously it was mentioned that there was $54 million lapsing in the 2022-2023 capital plan. But as part of the improved capital planning process that we're working with departments on, we're allowing departments to re-cash flow budgets to future years for projects that have been delayed or construction is now going to be -- it's now realized that construction's going to happen in a future year. So out of that $54 million, $51 million was actually re-cash flow to a future year and that's why I was hesitant to read that list out because it is really quite lengthy. The difference between the 54 and the 51 is the 2.7 or the $3 million that I quoted earlier. That is the amount that technically is falling off the plan. That would not be accommodated for in this supplementary request or a future budget. Thank you, ma'am.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you. That was very helpful in helping me understand why I have $54 million and we have $2.7 million. I appreciate that. I guess what this also leads me into is, is there any hope of publishing some sort of capital plan? You know, I know we have a capital acquisition plan, I know we have a capital needs assessment that goes, I believe, ten years, maybe even 30 years. I know the Department of Infrastructure has another plan with deferred maintenance and things in it. But there's nowhere I can look to kind of see what the GNWT has in the line-up and what it's planning to build. You have to really -- well, you get it on the capital estimates. That's the only place you can see that. Is there any plans going forward that we could publish what we are planning to build going forward more than one fiscal year? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, this is an area where I know there's been a point of discord, perhaps, in the past. There is a hesitancy in putting too much information out as I provided this explanation in response in the past, because we only firstly appropriate year by year. So until something is in the capital plan and not just the infrastructure acquisition plan, but the actual capital estimates, then we can appropriate for the year through the capital estimates so there's a hesitancy to put anything out in advance of that because it hasn't been approved by the Legislative Assembly and because going forward, the budgets would therefore not have been approved by the Legislative Assembly. So that is the standing hesitation. I know certainly not the only government that takes that approach. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, I guess, is there any willingness -- you know, I guess -- to me, you could publish capital needs assessment and it doesn't mean that you're going to build the things and then we know that our capital needs assessment is billions more dollars than we could ever hope to have. But it would be nice to publicly actually say that, to say that we have $3 billion in needs and we're spending $250 million. Is there any hope of the needs assessment actually being published? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that actually may be a slight deviation from what we've heard in the past. Let me take that back to not only the Department of Finance but infrastructure and possibly executive. That is a much bigger question. I mean, even a needs assessment obviously would be not a small thing to perhaps have to coordinate between all the different departments and regions. But let me get -- I'll certainly commit to coming back with a more conferred response with all departments. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to probably reiterate a few things that my colleagues have said, but I too am disappointed to see the amount of money lapsing. While I do recognize and understand the government's explanation that this money will come back in future years, what it represents to me is money that was not put into our economy oftentimes at the inability of the government and departments to do their jobs properly or to get things out the door on time that then has caused communities to suffer financially. A great example I keep bringing up is the Tulita Health Centre. I keep being told that the reason it hasn't moved forward is because of COVID. Well, it's 2023 now. The community has not been keeping people out of the community for the last -- at least a year, if not longer, and the project has not moved forward. That project could have been done even during COVID, with proper safety protocols in place, and that money could have then been injected into the Northwest Territories economy and the local economy of Tulita. And it's an opportunity that's lost.

When I look at the Department of Infrastructure, I see many opportunities lost - opportunities to keep our residents employed, opportunities to inject federal cash into our territory, opportunities to improve our infrastructure, and just basically improve the quality of life for our residents. And so to me, again, this is a terrible -- like, it's a shame that this money is being lost. It's being moved forward, yes, but we've already had conversations numerous times this session about what the power of that dollar buys you anymore. So as the infrastructure department continues to put off building things, those costs of those projects in all departments skyrocket, and we now are sitting at things that are costing two, three, four times the amount that they were just a year or two ago. So this $54 million that's now going to come back at a later date will not be worth the $54 million that it is worth right now. And honestly, I think it's the failing of our government. I have no questions. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any further general comments? Seeing none, we will review the supplementary estimates by department. Does committee agree to proceed to the detailed contained in the tabled document?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, we will begin on page 5. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, junior kindergarten to grade 12, school services, not previously authorized, $659,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, labour development and advanced education, not previously authorized, $2,570,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Education, Culture and Employment operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $3,229,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Please turn to page 6. Supplementary estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, long term and continuing care services, not previously authorized, $2,555,000. Does committee agree? Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would be remiss to let $2.5 million go by and not ask a question. So can the Minister tell me does she know when this work will be complete? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me see if the deputy minister has that quickly available, please.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy minister MacKay.

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Mackay

Sorry, Madam Chair. I might have to turn this over to Mr. Courtoreille. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. So this is contribution funding from the Department of Health and Social Services to Avens. And Avens uses this funding -- they're overseeing the construction of this project currently. My understanding is that the funding is for the -- or the funding is for 2023-2024, and this part of the project will be completed in the next fiscal year. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I was over at Avens recently and, boy, there's a lot of stuff happening over there. I'm just wondering is there -- what are the reasons for the delay? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there was some delay obviously -- well, I shouldn't say obviously. There was some delay early on in the project due to problems not dissimilar to others we've seen across Canada around supply chains. However, Madam Chair, there certainly is, as I've said before, there is a project money here now for $2.555 million expected to continue this project moving forward. There is quite a lot that's happening at the site right now.

It is moving forward at this point. I don't expect -- you know, all I can say is what's here, is that we are asking for the carryover. Carryovers get approved or get at least advanced to the Legislative Assembly when they are in process already, when there's already contracts in place. So I understand the project's already 40 percent complete. That it needs to be at that stage in order to have been requested for carry over. And that would have probably been sometime before we were -- before we actually are appearing here, so before these materials were prepared. So I anticipate that by the end of this summer, we should be well over the 50 percent time mark. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks for that, but I really asked for reasons why the project's delayed. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Like I said at the beginning, not dissimilar to other projects right now, supply chain issues did delay the initial procurement of materials. But, again, that was an early delay and it is now underway. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, okay. I don't think I have anything further. Thanks.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, long term and continuing care services, not previously authorized, $2,555,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $2,555,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn to page 7. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Infrastructure, operations expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $167,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Infrastructure, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $167,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Please turn now to page 8. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, community operations, not previously authorized, $29,473,000. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is $29 million being carried over although we are holding approximately $66 million, and I believe there's actually quite a bit more through some other ICIP funding for municipalities. I believe all of this money has been allocated. It's project specific so a community worked with us to apply to the feds and we'll build X thing. But my understanding is, and we got -- we weren't going to get all that money out so we asked the feds for an extension, they gave us an extension, but my understanding is that quite a bit of these allocated projects are now at the state where, due to inflation, are not going ahead in any world. But I guess that's my question. What confidence do we have that this $29 million here, or the total kind of flowthrough money we are holding, will actually get spent? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, again, that would involve going through project by project over 33 different communities. The GNWT is the flowthrough agent. So the federal government really just provides the money but we allocate it out without -- you know, it's not up to us to decide for a community what project they want to advance or not. So there is a lot here that's being carried over, and I'd be happy to try to work in a new way if there is one but, really, this is money that is not ours to decide upon it. Really, just what we want to keep it available for communities but I can't speak to the level of certainty that any one community might be bringing to their project. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you. I guess I want to clarify whether -- when this $29 million is carried over, whether there's any review by the GNWT of the project or is it simply we didn't get it out the door to give it to the communities so it automatically gets carried over, or do they have to come to us and say hey, sorry, this is what's happening, can you please carry over our funding? Is there any sort of accountability or oversight by us on it or is it an automatic carryover once we don't send it to them? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, this will be an automatic carryover, and the communities can continue to apply for the money for their projects and we'll hold it for them pending their completion of those projects. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I guess my concern is the way I understand this to work is the feds essentially gave us $66 million, they said, get your communities to apply and then you will help decide which ones go forward, not all of the projects communities wanted to do obviously made the first round of cuts and now there are some that, you know, inflation is causing some community needs to reapply or find other money or not go ahead so that money is not available for another community to kind of fill in the gap. That's my understanding of the current situation. So I guess the solution there would be for everyone to kind of get in the room again and say okay, we have this list of money we're holding, these tens of millions of dollars, what is actually being built, what's not being built, what needs to be reapplied to get some extra inflation. Is that some sort of -- something that either MACA or finance could do?

Just I'm very concerned that we're going to keep automatically carrying over $30 million and then it's going to go 40, and then eventually we will -- the feds will say, sorry, you already got one extension and you're not meeting -- we're not giving you a second. So can we do a little audit or perhaps review and reach out on each of these projects to make sure they are 100 percent going forward? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, this really was a community-driven -- these are community-driven projects and initiatives. It's really not one that has a lot of oversight by the GNWT. That said, and just to defend, if I might, the communities as a whole, there certainly is money being spent. There are some projects that are being advanced, and the smaller project, often the more nuanced the reasons were of carry over.

It may well be in one community a very specific labour market issue and in another community inflation and in another community a supply chain. These are smaller projects, each with their own challenges. All that said, Madam Chair, I recognize the challenge here, and I don't -- also don't like having the $30 million sitting and adding to the carryovers that are before the House overall as a total. So there is still is a fair bit of time. We have some additional time on this money from the federal government and can certainly make a commitment to take this away, between the Department of Finance as well as MACA, and see if there's something further we can do to assist. There may be some areas where there's some specific issues that we can support communities on, and there may simply be other projects where the communities need to take a hard look themselves and just need a bit of a push to do so. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I guess would we be able to get a list of the projects that are currently in the queue here? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I certainly do have a list of projects, and I'm only hesitant in that it's because this is -- these are community-driven projects, I want to confirm there's no reason that I'm holding it and can't share it. But if there's not, then I'm certainly happy to share that at the very least with committee. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. You know, it's obviously in everyone's interest to spend this tens of millions of dollars, I think. We've heard the feds say, you know, well we don't need to give you more community infrastructure money, you're not spending the money we gave you. And I've heard MACA say similarly well, we don't need to increase the community infrastructure budget, there's tens of millions of dollars not being spent. I think we all know if this was just unconditional money to spend on infrastructure, they'd get it done. But sometimes the ICIP project categories were rather specific and you kind of had to shoehorn projects in. And I know there's some frustration about that. So just a bit of a comment, I don't think -- our communities need infrastructure money but when we put these strings attached to it and then we hold it as GNWT, it's clearly having a hard time getting out the door and there's a larger conversation to be had to get all the parties to the table and make sure this money is spent. So a comment. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to make a comment because just some of the comments that are being made is -- you know, flowthrough money from the federal government just comes to the government, it's flowed through. Many times, even when I was chief of Salt River First Nation, monies that came to -- that we got from Salt River First Nation flowed through the Government of the Northwest Territories, okay. It has nothing to do with the Government of the Northwest Territories. That's the way the federal government gets the money out the door to go to the First Nation or to the community or -- it's not the fault of anyone in this House. That's just the way it's done.

And if the community at that time is not ready because there's something that happened or -- it could be many things. Like now we're into wildfires, we're into climate change. Like everybody always brings that up all the time, you know. I just -- I don't -- I am used to defending how money flows through governments. But I mean, that's just a standard -- the practice that's been done for years and years. As far as I know, from -- since I've been in leadership and way before that when my husband was mayor of Fort Smith, that's the way that it's done, even for the municipality of Fort Smith. So going on to say that there's something being done wrong when you -- when the money's flowed through here, or making it sound like it's not right, is incorrect information. And I'd like more clarity on that if that's the way it's done. And you know, you can't fault people for -- if someone's not doing the other part on the other side because there might have been change in leadership, there might have been different standards now, there might have been a criteria that they cannot -- they cannot follow, because there's all these criteria that have to come into play before the money is asked for. It doesn't -- you just don't flow the millions through and then it just comes. That's not the way it is. I know that because I -- I've had to do that many times when I've gone to the federal government and the flowthrough money comes through the territorial government. It's all about timing. And most of the time you can extend it and extend it until it's time. So that's just a comment I want to make. I don't expect anybody to answer any questions. But, you know, you can't make it sound like there's something not right here because nobody wants to have anything happen to a community or a municipality or for the capital for that -- for any reason. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Yeah, thank you, Member for Thebacha. And, you know, it's what we're doing here is we're able to ask questions and get answers from the Minister and everybody's doing that and, you know, that's why we have this time. So, Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will ask the Minister a question. Of this $27 million that's being carried over, for municipalities -- or communities to access this money, is it application-based; do they have to fill out forms, do they have to provide proposals, etcetera, to get this money? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, there are -- well, this is a funding that is entirely application-based, but it is applications for federal dollars, not for our dollars. So, again, you know -- again, and I do want to make clear, I certainly wouldn't want any community governments or municipal governments thinking that we're not happy to be able to help and that MACA certainly would be able help. I can tell you there are 84 projects that are at least have -- you know, moved forward. Five of those now, mind you, are waiting again for approval from Canada so not the GNWT. I'll stop there, Madam Chair. I think I'm going beyond the Member's question. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you. I appreciate the Minister's answer. So in its capacity with this type of money, is MACA providing technical advice to the communities, and are they helping with the preparation of the federal application process? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I shot a glance over to the Minister of MACA and he has nodded over as -- to assure me that, indeed, they do provide that information. And I can say the information I have regarding the projects and their stages of completion does come from MACA, so they do monitor that along the way. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. So would it not be fair, then, to say given the amount of emergency work and extra work that MACA has had other the last few years, given the number of disasters, that perhaps capacity within the department is stretched which then maybe would impact some of these projects from going forward? Also, I'm assuming that this is not the first that's lapsed and it probably lapsed through COVID. I know for a fact it did as well. So with COVID having shut down a lot of the Government of the Northwest Territories, can the Minister speak to how much the overtaxing of the Department of MACA may have led to the lapsing of this money. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I would certainly put the hat on as being Minister responsible for the Public Service to say that I know many, many public servants in all departments have faced a great deal of challenges over the last few years and, frankly, have, you know, performed, I would argue, very admirably well under those circumstances nonetheless.

Out of the projects here, there's 20 that are complete or over 50 percent completion, another 31 that are underway and moving forward. There are others that have not started, or we aren't quite sure where they are in process. So it's that cohort of projects that I think would warrant a further look from folks at MACA and see if there's a particular barrier that needs to be resolved. You know, again, the overall spend in 2022-2023 of $285 million is higher than what was spent over many years in the last ten years. So whether the community projects are at all different from that or not is not an analysis I have in front of me. I can certainly take that away and take a look at it. If there's no difference between what the communities have been able to deliver versus the $285 million that the GNWT has, then I'd suggest that we are actually all collectively, as governments, in the Northwest Territories doing all right. If there's a distinct difference between what the municipalities have been able to advance and what the GNWT is, then I agree, then we need to look at what those barriers and see if we can support communities. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. When speaking about a department being overtaxed, I in no way implied that the people working in that department are not working hard. My point being that there has been numerous unplanned-for disasters over the last several years, and this is the smallest department. In the Minister's words himself, in an email, has told me that his staff could not -- did not have the capacity to deal with the flooding that happened in Fort Simpson so I would assume that, given the flooding that happened the year after in Hay River and now forest fires, that that would continue on.

When the Minister speaks about the $285 million being more than we've ever seen before, well, all I've heard this government talk about and blame is inflation and supply chain issues. So looking at a final number of $285 million and comparing it to pre-COVID years and saying oh well, we're actually doing quite well is not really the full situation. To me, a lot of that would probably just be about cost overruns, money back more to contractors as they've had to bear more costs, the lack of prompt payment by the GNWT, the lack of awarding of contracts, money being spent on RFPs by people that are then not awarded that the GNWT doesn't seem to be too concerned about private sector having to spend money and time preparing those. So I don't think that that's a really fulsome look at what is going on there.

I'm going to stop there but I think that this, again, I would like to reiterate, that our government holds all the keys and the strings to the municipalities and communities, and to then turn around and act like it's the municipalities and communities that did not get this money out the door when the government was stopping people from coming into our territory and impeding business is not something that I can sit and just listen to. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. I didn't see or hear any question in that. So did you have any further questions for the Minister? Thank you.

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, community operations, not previously authorized, $29,473,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $29,473,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, please now turn to page 9. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Legislative Assembly, capital investment expenditures, office of the clerk, not previously authorized, $59,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Legislative Assembly, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $59,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn to page 10. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, junior kindergarten to grade 12 school services, not previously authorized, $15,159,000. Does committee agree? Member for Nunakput.

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Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I want to talk about Mangilaluk School, a major project I have in my riding for the $10.8 million carryover. I guess that means that we didn't spend it last year. I just want to let the Minister know that I am supporting this budget here in regards to -- for this project. But can someone tell me what's the revised schedule and timeline for that project in Tuk? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I have a schedule here before me but I think I'll want to be cautious. I know that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment has been in Tuktoyaktuk recently and that representatives from infrastructure have been in Tuktoyaktuk recently looking at the school, looking at the progress that's being made, and what I'd like to suggest here, because there's active work happening and there's work actively happening to try to resolve some delays, so rather than reiterate information that might already be dated, I would like to work with the Member and the Department of ECE, between Department of Finance, Infrastructure, and ECE and perhaps meet with the mayor as well and see if we can come up with the most up-to-date-information. I know Members of Cabinet are in Inuvik next week, and it might be an opportunity for us to meet with representatives so that we can then at that time provide information. I'm happy to make that public as well. I'm not trying to avoid that here. I just want to ensure that what information we put forward is the most up to date and ultimately solution-oriented. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Nunakput.

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Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

No, just in regards to that, Madam Chair, I have 227 students in Tuk; I have 38 staff that have been out without a gym for the last two years. I worry about my youth in regards to not having a gymnasium and working on a construction site. I need our Cabinet -- you know, I brought forward -- I sourced out property in the community when I was asked to in regards to the portables. I need four portables. They're not $5 million. They're about $2.3 or $2.4 million. That has to happen before September 1st.

We need to get this sorted out because we need the gymnasium back in the community because it's not healthy for youth. And how many kids are not going to school? I take that Minister's offer in regards to -- I already spoke to my mayor today and I spoke to my TCC chair to come down to Yellowknife to see if they could come Monday but now if they're going into Inuvik, that saves us coming to Yellowknife. So I take that offer up, and I look forward to meeting with her with an update on what's the plan and meeting with the contractor as well and to get a timeline, a solid timeline on a go-forward for Mangilaluk School and the youth and my teaching staff in the community. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. No, the Member has spoken to myself and Minister Simpson as well just yesterday so I will prepare to discuss that further next week. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Any further questions?

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Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

No.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, junior kindergarten to grade 12 school services, not previously authorized, $15,159,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $15,159,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn to page 11. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Environment and Climate Change, capital investment expenditures, corporate management, not previously authorized, $581,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Environment and Climate Change, capital investment expenditures, environment management monitoring and climate change, not previously authorized, $581,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6273

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Environment and Climate Change, capital investment expenditures, regional operations, not previously authorized, $281,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6273

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates, (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Environment and Climate Change, capital investment expenditures, wildlife and forest management, not previously authorized, $4,761,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6273

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6273

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024 Department of Environment and Climate Change, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $6,204,000. Does committee agree? Member for Yellowknife North.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I had a few questions about the previous line item. I guess the $1.6 million for the Fort Smith Territorial Fire Centre, I believe this is the first time that the Legislative Assembly is approving any money for this project, which is exciting news. I remember we all went and got a tour of the old fire centre but I guess I just have some basic questions. Do we have a cost estimate of what a new territorial fire centre will cost us? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, let me just briefly again, I -- I'm sorry, I don't have a o'clock in my line of sight but I -- the reason this is the first time coming in is prior to now, what we were anticipating is that this would actually ultimately be an operations expense and it would have gone as a design and build to an external proponent. If that had been the case, then the work would have been undertaken this summer by the external proponent. And it would have shown up later in operations budget of the GNWT. Now that said, because it hasn't gone that way, which is fine, we will be taking it on as a capital project for the GNWT. It would have been paid from one budget or paid through the other but it's going to be paid by a capital budget.

And so by advancing some money here in the supplementary estimates, we avoid losing this construction season. Part of that work actually is to develop a final budget for the project, was to do some of the final design work that is required. There's some land available. There's been some initial technical work done but the final design work is required, and that is part of what we're looking to have this advanced to complete that with a view to then having the project in the capital estimates in time for August. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6273

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Can I just get a bit more understanding, then, of how this is going to be procured. Will this be normal public procurement, and then I guess the intention is this $1.6 million will be intended to get us design and then we will go out for a public tender? Is this a design bid built essentially, I'm asking, or a design build; what kind of procurement are we using? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, this is the advanced work to then be able to put it out for a design build through a public procurement process. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6273

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you. Is there any federal money for this type of thing? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I don't know that I have federal money allotted to this as of yet. Certainly there are always chances to go and ask but, at this point, Madam Chair, I don't -- there's no indication at this point that we have federal dollars attached to it and given that we don't have a final budget, I think it would be arguably premature to go and ask just yet. If we're going to ask, let's know what we're asking for. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

I mean, I somewhat disagree with that. You are asking the Assembly for millions of dollars; you can probably also ask the feds for millions of dollars. Do we have an estimated date of completion for the Fort Smith Territorial Fire Centre? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. 2026.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Yellowknife North.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

That's pretty good. That's a pretty quick turnaround. I will be genuinely surprised if we complete this on time and on budget in 2026, whatever that budget may end up ultimately being.

I guess back to my previous point, I could do this for every single capital project - you know, is there federal money, when is it starting construction, when is it completing construction, what are you doing with the initial assessment, how is it being procured, how much is the total budget -- I've never gotten an answer to that one but, you know, one day hopefully.

I would encourage the GNWT, before it comes and asks for millions of dollars from the legislature, to just state those basic answers. I find it very odd that the way we announce we're building a fire centre is with a one-line item in this. It's a good news story. It's very odd that we don't answer those basic questions before asking for millions of dollars.

I guess, in the form of a question, when can we expect to know how much this fire centre is going to cost us? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

By August, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member, did you have any further questions?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

No. That's great news. I will ask in August how much the fire centre is going to cost. The people of Fort Smith, I think will be happy, that some amount of money is being spent in their community. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Supplementary estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Environment and Climate Change, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $6,204,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn now to page 13. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Finance, capital investment expenditures, management board secretariat, not previously authorized, $5,864,000. Does committee agree? Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. So it doesn't seem like there's a lot of information here. Where's this fibre line going from and to? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

This is continuing in the completion of the Mackenzie Valley fibre line between Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, okay, that's good to know. Can we not kind of include a little more detail in the sups where, you know, where a project's actually taking place in the future? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 6274

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Certainly, Madam Chair, that -- we can certainly -- yes. Yes, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Frame Lake, no?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Good job, Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Finance, capital investment expenditures, Management Board Secretariat, not previously authorized, $5,864,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Finance, capital investment expenditures, Office of the Chief Information Officer, not previously authorized, $1,867,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Finance, capital investment expenditures, Office of the Comptroller General, not previously authorized, $432,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Finance, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $8,163,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn to page 14. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, administrative and support services, not previously authorized, $6,880,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, health and social programs, not previously authorized, $5,261,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, long term and continuing care services, not previously authorized, $7,176,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $19,317,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Now turn to page 15. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, economic diversification and business support, not previously authorized, $2,780,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, mineral and petroleum resources, not previously authorized, $175,000. Member for Yellowknife North.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is our famous MARS, Mineral Administration Registry System. And I believe, you know, this is required to get us into online map staking. I believe to do that we got to implement the Mineral Resources Act and get the regs done. We've carried this over a number of times. Can we just have a realistic timeline of when we would actually buy the software and have online map staking in place? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6274

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, I understand at this point that in order to provide -- or in order to request the contract or to do the procurement, they are looking at having a completion of the Mineral Resources Act regulations. And so in order for that to be completed -- again, that is now on track to have -- to be out and gazetted and doing section 35 consultations this coming fall, which would mean that in early 2024 that that final they'd be at a procurement stage.

I do understand, Madam Chair, that there's some effort to do things parallel as much as possible in the sense of some design and planning being undertaken concurrently. Nevertheless, the actual procurement won't take place until again the Mineral Resource Act regs themselves are finalized, which again, does need to still go through the gazetting and formal consultative process this fall. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 31st

Page 6275

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, you know, we already approved previously a list of a bunch of software that we've carried over many times. I guess I'm very skeptical about this one getting also procured in this fiscal year. I think it's a safe bet to see it would be carried over one more time. I get you have to have the money before you go out to tender so maybe we'll squeak in at the end of this fiscal.

I guess can we get a -- there's $175,000 here. Can we get an estimate of what the total cost for this would be? I believe at one point we were looking for something a little off the shelf and then we figured out well, it's actually going to depend on what the regulations say and we may need some rather custom software for ourselves. Are we just -- do we have a cost estimate? Are we on track? I'm sure it's a lot more than $175,000. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So an estimate right now would be in the range of approximately $370,000. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 6275

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah. Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Maybe I had a different number in my head. I guess, sorry, can I clarify, then, would that -- that's the first time I heard that number. Would that be, like, a licensing fee? Has something changed in the sense that it would be $370,000 annually or, yeah, can I just get some more context. Is that total, we get some custom designed software and we own it kind of thing? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, thank you. I don't know that with certainty, so I don't want to surmise here. I just -- I'm showing a contract value. Now, whether there'd be some additional annual fee, I would anticipate so, but I don't have that here. So I will confirm, and we'll get back to committee. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 6275

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I would, yeah, like that to committee, of the total cost. My understanding was it was going to cost millions of dollars to build this software and then probably some licensing fees ongoing after that. And some of that, you know, I know is found in capital and some in operations so I was under a different understanding. But I think if committee could get a general update on what's going on here, this is one of those -- there's a lot of people. We're the last jurisdiction left in Canada without online map staking. It would be really nice to have a firm deadline. I get it has to go through the regs first but a bit of an update before the end of this Assembly would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 6275

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there is also, you know, a lot of concurrency here with the Land Tenure Optimization System, or LTOS, and that will certainly be a significant factor as in there will be, I expect, some additional costs, and probably not insignificant costs. That is the bigger picture system and MARS is one part of that. So yes. Short answer though is yes, happy to ensure that we can give a bigger update to committee. Some of that may be confidential depending on contracts state but as much as can be made public, I'll certainly make note that we provide that as well. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks. My colleagues from Yellowknife North asked some of the questions I wanted to. So this $175,000 that's being carried over, was any money spent on this MARS thing in 2022-2023? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, Madam Chair, $284,000. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, the number that kind of sticks in my head is the cost for the whole project was something like about $3.4 million. But does that ring a bell with anybody, any of my friends over there? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, let me go back and double check. I mean, I'm showing various carry over amounts over the year over year, but I don't know that I have a total project in front of me. So at the risk of being inaccurate, again, I will confirm -- I will make sure that we can get that to committee unless we get it here in the next few seconds from someone else in cyberspace. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake, did you have further questions, or do you want to give them time?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Well, I got eight and a half minutes left on the clock; I probably don't need it all but I'm happy to give them a minute or two to find it. Thanks.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister, would you have the information?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, it's like watching a kettle boil. It's now not going to happen. And, Madam Chair, I do have numbers. I just want to ensure there's numbers -- as I say, it does show, you know, revised budgets year over year and capital carryovers but I'm not convinced that what I'm seeing is showing a total project budget. As well, Madam Chair, I think there's a total project budget but that also -- I'm not sure if that is strictly the infrastructure side of it or if it also included some of the other costs. So that is what I'd like to ensure if we're going to get this out there. So it may well be that I need to confirm that to the House tomorrow, to my colleagues tomorrow. I think the Member's correct that there's a roughly 3 to $4 million total project budget, but that's the total project budget and not necessarily the infrastructure associated with MARS. So that's the distinction I'm drawing. I think the numbers my colleagues have are correct. But, again, some of that may have been added staffing, supports, etcetera, research analysis, that went into developing the MARS and not just the MARS system. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, okay, no, thanks. I look forward to getting that information and if there's a way to kind of show the cash flow over time, I think that would be really helpful.

I guess more of a comment from me now, Madam Chair. I'm not quite as anxious to jump to claim -- sorry, map staking from claim staking as my colleague from Yellowknife North because I think there's still some really significant policy questions that really haven't been explored in any way. You know, and part of that is, you know, how much is it going to -- are the fees going to remain the same because we don't want to create -- well, I certainly don't think it's helpful to create a staking rush where people can go and tie up land and not do anything exploration on it, so.

And that's been the experience with some other jurisdictions that have gone to map staking. I've asked the Minister about this before and I don't think I've really gotten good answers. But that can of worms has to be opened at some point and needs to be part of a public debate about what those fees are going to look like to prevent unnecessary speculation and ensure that there's actually a fair return to the public purse if we do move to map staking. So I'll just leave it at that, Madam Chair, and I look forward to being into that can of worms pretty soon. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, minerals and petroleum resources, not previously authorized, $175,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, tourism and parks, not previously authorized, $2,829,000. Does committee agree? Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. Look, I really love the North Arm Park; we often stop there. We've actually camped there once. But there's about five or six different line items in here for different parts of this park. You know, gatehouse living quarters, the outhouse dump station, electrical project. What is going on with this? There's even more on the next -- sorry, even on the second page for a playground. What's going on with the whole thing? Like, why is this continually being carried over and what's going on? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So all of the project that is under the North Arm Park theme within the Tlicho region, that is part of -- you might recall we have the Tlicho Infrastructure Cooperation Agreement, and so moving this project forward has been subject to that agreement and operating under that agreement has proven -- or has resulted in some delay in terms of being able to establish contracts and to have it procured through that process. I think there's a path forward now, and so the carry over here now should hopefully see more of that money spent this fiscal year. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, okay, thanks. That might be good news. I can't count the number of times we've stopped there, sometimes just quick pit stops, but whenever we been there there's people from the community using that spot, especially in the summer. So whatever you guys can do to get this work done would be great because it's heavily used by the community and by, you know, folks that drive by as well. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I don't disagree. And so I actually have made a note just to follow up on where this will be proceeding. I mean, and the TICA is certainly very -- I think hopefully fairly progressive approach to procurement but it's also a fairly new one, and so you know, whether we're going to use that process or another, we at some point do not want to see any further delays on this. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Any further questions, Member for Frame Lake?

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, tourism and parks, not previously authorized, $2,829,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $5,784,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn to page 17. Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $14,047,000. Does committee agree? Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just noting that while that's an overall of 14, it's actually we have $23 million coming and $9 million of a reduction there. So I just wanted to ask a little bit about the Frank Channel Bridge reduction of $9.6 million. I understand that is to do with delays in the project; however, can the Minister give us some update on where that project's at and when are we going to see things start? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So this is one where this is -- it's termed as a re-cash flowing of the project. So the project is still moving forward. It did see some delays, but that money is moving into future years, and we are anticipating there's going to be spend in 2022-2023 so starting -- but starting this summer -- I'm sorry, yeah. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. And it's my understanding that this project will also be subject to the Tlicho Agreement that the Minister was referring to earlier in the tourism section. And I'm just curious to know, given that that has delayed other projects in the past, what's being done to ensure that the Frank Channel doesn't have that same issue given -- at the Frank Channel Bridge given that it is such a critical piece of infrastructure to our region and to the territory as a whole?

Also, I note that it is my understanding that most of the projects that are being done under this agreement are coming in at great higher -- a greater price tag than other projects done in other communities that are equivalent or even actually more remote. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. And, Madam Chair, I was thinking, just to be clear, earlier the spending is happening this summer, which is the 2023-2024 spend, and it is expected at this point that that will be a sufficient amount to move us to a point with regulatory permitting, engagement, design, etcetera, will be done this summer.

Madam Chair, you know, with respect to the Infrastructure Cooperation Agreement, numbers do -- at times may come in higher but that is anticipated and that is certainly with respect to procurement, often said and often argued, that some additional costs reflective of the fact that the costs for contractors in the North are higher is appropriate. Obviously there's a limit to how much we can allow public dollars to spend in a higher amount. So what the Infrastructure Cooperation Agreement tries to do in terms of striking that balance while allowing and expecting some -- because, again, as I said knowing that there will be some additional cost here but then keeping those dollars in the North has a benefit. But we don't have to go through procurement -- we're not -- the GNWT's not bound to procure directly if there's an inability to reach agreement on the contracting dollars. There is a pathway out at which point then a different provision of the agreement kicks in and what we would do is ensure that any public procurement process includes within it a requirement for local labour. So I cannot say whether or not we're going to find ourselves -- in which version of the ICA we'll find ourselves in here. I don't have that information here, but I do want to assure the public that there is that balance in terms of northern dollars versus ensuring appropriate value for public dollars. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. And in fact, I have said that before in this House, I'm pretty sure too, and I do agree, that it is cost to doing business that is higher in the North. And I've said it to my colleague beside me that isn't here today that I would rather see us overpay Indigenous groups to do work than to be overpaying southerners that are coming in and that money is leaving.

My next question has to do with -- and, again, a little bit -- like, maybe not -- sort of more what's missing maybe from this list. Given my statement earlier about the flooding issues in the North, you know, my concern is the Dempster Highway and I note that it's not here as a particular line item, and I get that this is just carryovers from, you know, stuff that hasn't been spent. However, can the Minister speak to whether or not we believe we'll have to come back for more supplementary estimates given that the Dempster Highway is becoming much more fragile and there is potential that we are just at the start of our season and things could be happening later in the season that might cause more repair work to be needed. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, obviously, you know, I appreciate the comments with respect to the Dempster. I know other colleagues raised roads and that in the Beaufort Delta region as well, and I'm live to the fact that I know the three premiers from the northern territories also raised concerns around ensuring viability of the Dempster going forward. So, you know, wanting to assure the public that there's an awareness of the need to maintain that roadway. That said, Madam Chair, with respect to this list, obviously it is not on this list because it's not one of the projects that was needing a carry over or that is seeing a new project coming in as supplementary appropriation. We are heading into the more formal capital planning stage with the -- you know, infrastructure acquisition plan being put together and shared with committee and then followed closely on that would be the capital plan that we see here in August. So that is an ideal opportunity to look at whether or not there is need and whether or not it needs to be advanced at that time. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm looking at the -- actually the community access road improvement, the regional, there's a million dollars being carried over there. I do understand that that one is hard to always budget for because of, you know, if a community doesn't follow through on what they had proposed it may not get spent. Is that million dollars earmarked already for projects, so is it being carried over to a specific community project, or will it be put back into the fund for application again? And I guess I'm just wondering where does that million end up going. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I -- Madam Chair, I understand that -- that there -- sorry, Madam Chair. I understand that this one does combine with other areas, but this million dollars simply wasn't enough to enter into a contract for individual projects. There are -- there is roadwork that's underway already, but this is one particular -- this amount of funding was simply -- you know, wasn't being utilized, so. And that's why we're looking to carry it other so that it is still available given the obviously ongoing need. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

So I'm thinking I heard that it just goes back into the general coffer for the fund itself, and I'm looking over to just have someone confirm that for me.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Just waiting on the light, Madam Chair. Yes, that is correct, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

All right. Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Now I want to look at -- I'm just all about the highways. Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk Highway, in your own area, for the $2.932 million that's a carryover.

Over the last week, I noted on social media that there was -- people were reporting that they had seen new holes opening up and that -- maybe I'm mixing up the Dempster. But at this point, I know that the Inuvik to Tuk has its own issues and I'm concerned that the $2.9 million will not be enough going forward to properly rehab -- or sorry, I know this is a carryover as well. So maybe I'm not asking properly. But can the Minister speak to whether or not we think we have enough money for the upcoming year to do the proper rehab of the ITH? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. That is correct, this is a carryover only. It's not the total project in and of itself. So completion of the complete overall is not expected until 2027-2028 in its entirety. But this does begin the work of engineering, survey, and design, and this will be enough -- or at least it's anticipated to be enough to complete that stage of the project, and then with a project to go out to procurement thereafter. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Sticking with roads, I'm looking at the Tlicho All-Season Road to Whati. There is a $4 million carryover, which I kind of find interesting because as a committee we travelled to Whati, we talked about the road with them, and at the time there was, you know, a lot of concern about how narrow the road was and the dust suppression issues, etcetera, which I do want to thank the Department of Infrastructure did seem to get quite quickly on dust suppression after we left. However, given that people feel the road was constructed too narrowly, then now we're carrying over last money. So can the Minister speak to why there is the $4.99 million being carried over on the Whati Access Road? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, if I might get -- put this one to Mr. Courtoreille to give a more detailed explanation, please.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Whati Access Road is, again, another project that we're pursuing with the Tlicho government under the ICA agreement. That work I understand is underway this summer and it's still expected to be completed in the fall of 2028, which was the original completion date. It's a 13-kilometre road that they're looking to widen and improve to highway standards. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. All right, are there any further questions under this section? Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. So there's a line item here, Tlicho All-Season Road, Whati, $4.2 million. You know, I thought the road opened in November last year. What's this money for if the road's already opened and people are driving on it? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, again, if I could just put that one to Mr. Courtoreille, please.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. There's a small holdover amount that was carried over for warranty work or to complete deficiencies. I understand that we've since received a final completion for the road, and it is now formally complete. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. So if it's formally complete, why are we being asked to authorize another $4.2 million for this road? Thanks.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Courtoreille's doing well, Madam Chair. I'll turn it to him.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. I understand that there's still potentially some warranty work that could be undertaken this summer, and this was just a small amount to hold over. That was approved last year in the event that we do have to undertake that work. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, okay, I guess this is above my pay grade or something where -- is this like some kind of holdback or something in case something goes wrong, and why are we being asked to put up money, $4.2 million, wouldn't it be the contractor that should have to do this? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I mean, I would say it is probably comparable to the idea of a holdback if that is one way of -- if that's a more familiar way of putting it. But -- so you would hold on to the money until you're satisfied, a project of course reaches the stage of being considered to be fully complete, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are entirely releasing all funds under a holdback or the warranty amount. So this is the last, hopefully, tail end of that and with this summer season available, that should be enough to not only be substantially complete but in order to confirm that, indeed, all work was done to allow that this amount of money will not need to be carried forward further. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay. I know it's almost the end of the day, but why are we being asked to authorize $4.2 million if there's potential deficiencies on the part of the contractor? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, again, it's a carryover amount. So it's an amount that is under this contract for this work and, you know, this is our -- it's our asset right now. If there is work that needs to get done on it, we would need to ensure that it needs to. But that is the case, this is part of the contracting process. The money is still there. It hasn't been released. And it won't be released until we're sure that there are no deficiencies. If there's no deficiencies, the money does move out. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay. All right. So is this money for the access road off the highway to the community? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is the last of the main highway. So, again, the highway has substantial completion, but you would still have an amount under the contract owed, just wanting to ensure that, of course, you have done due diligence to ensure that there's no deficiencies. If there are, you do hold back a payment to the contractor. When we're assured that there's no deficiencies, then the final payments would flow. So that level of assurance and due diligence hasn't been done yet and so that's why we're asking to just carry this forward to ensure that that is complete. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay. All right, so I have another question, though, about something that isn't in here. Back in March of 2022, this House approved a sup that included $9.5 million for the Redknife River culvert replacement. And this was sup for 2021-2022, No. 3, and it was an unusual arrangement in that De Beers was putting up some of that money under a fisheries authorization for Gahcho Kue. But I see that GNWT now has an ongoing public engagement around this Redknife River, you know, replacement of the culverts and stuff and that closes, I think -- or closed just in April it looks like. And a contract for this work was signed back in August of 2022. What's going on and why is this not carried over in some way in this list? Maybe it's some other part of the sup but why is this work not being carried over in some way? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I know that this project has not disappeared certainly, but let me just turn to perhaps Mr. Courtoreille again and see if he's -- or perhaps we'll start with the deputy minister and see if he's aware of the state of the bridge or what amount has been spent. In short, we don't -- I don't necessarily have in front of me the cash flow of every project. So it may be that we have to go away and get the cash flow of the project because I know that project has not -- certainly not disappeared.

Actually, Madam Chair, I may have the answer now. There is work underway, and so it may well be that the amount that we have put forward has, indeed, allowed us to proceed under the 2023-2024 season. There's more work expected here in this coming summer season, but it won't be the end of the work that is required. So, again, I -- the portion that would be GNWT would be the amount that would need to be carried over if necessary, but it may well be that has been adequate to do the work that's required. I can get a full -- a detailed breakdown of the project. I just don't have it with me. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. So maybe I'll just ask a simple question. Is the work done? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

The full work is not done, Madam Chair. There is -- it's expected to have -- to see further work this summer, 2024-2025, and 2025-2026. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. So where is the authorization to carry forward this money? Is it in this supplementary appropriation, or where is it? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, you'd only see carry over if the amounts that were previously approved were not fully spent. So, again, if there's no need for a carryover, you wouldn't necessarily see it here, but it certainly hasn't disappeared from the infrastructure acquisition plan, and then it would reappear on the capital estimates coming through for 2024-2025 later this year. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay. Clearly, I'm not an accountant. This funding was authorized in 2021-2022. The project is not done. And here you've got a public call for people to express their views on this and closing this year. Why is the authorization to carry over the money from 2021-2022 to future years? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm not an accountant either. Let me take one run at it and if -- but if not, I can certainly ask one of the folks with me to do so. But the money only needs to come in as a carryover if that amount is required in the upcoming year. So if the amount for 2022-2023 wasn't spent and was required in 2023-2024, it would be a carryover. For a multi-year project, if there's going to be future asks coming in for 2024-2025 in our capital plan, then you'll see it in the capital plan. But in a multi-year project, it may well be that they don't need to carry over an amount from 2023-2024 into this one. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks. So was this carryover, then, authorized in the 2023-2024 Capital Estimates? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, let me turn that one to Mr. Courtoreille, please.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

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Courtoreille

Thank you, Madam Chair. I recall that there is an amount budgeted in 2023-2024. That was approved through the capital estimates last fall. There's no carryover being proposed from 2022-2023 into 2023-2024. And, again, this is a multi-year project expected to be completed in 2025. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Your time has expired. I think we -- I think this is a conversation that Member can have with the Minister and her staff to try and figure out that.

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $14,047,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, programs and services, not previously authorized, $19,050,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Infrastructure, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $33,097,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Please turn to page 19. Supplementary estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Justice, capital investment expenditures, corrections, not previously authorized, $1,226,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024 Department of Justice, capital investment expenditures, court services, not previously authorized, $95,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Supplementary estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, Department of Justice, capital investment expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $1,321,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. Do you agree that you've concluded consideration of Tabled Document 940-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Frame Lake.

Committee Motion 464-19(2): Tabled Document 940-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2023-2024 - Deferral of Estimates, Carried
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I move that this committee defer further consideration of Tabled Document 940-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2023-2024, at this time. Mahsi, Madam Chair.

Committee Motion 464-19(2): Tabled Document 940-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2023-2024 - Deferral of Estimates, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. The motion is being distributed. To the motion?

Committee Motion 464-19(2): Tabled Document 940-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2023-2024 - Deferral of Estimates, Carried
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Some Hon. Members

Question.

Committee Motion 464-19(2): Tabled Document 940-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2023-2024 - Deferral of Estimates, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Consideration of Tabled Document 940-19(2) is deferred.

---Carried

Thank you, Minister, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing before us. Sergeant-at-arms, you can escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Member for Frame Lake.

Committee Motion 464-19(2): Tabled Document 940-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2023-2024 - Deferral of Estimates, Carried
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Madame la Presidente. I move that the chair rise and report progress.

Committee Motion 464-19(2): Tabled Document 940-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2023-2024 - Deferral of Estimates, Carried
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. The motion is on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried.

I will now rise and report progress.

Committee Motion 464-19(2): Tabled Document 940-19(2): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2023-2024 - Deferral of Estimates, Carried
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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

May I please have the report of Committee of the Whole. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

May 31st

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Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 90 and Tabled Document 940-19(2) and would like to report progress with one motion carried and that Bill 90 is ready for third reading. And, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Do we have a seconder? Member for Yellowknife South. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Orders of the day for Thursday, June 1st, 2023, at 1:30 p.m.

  1. Prayer
  2. Ministers' Statements
  3. Members' Statements
  4. Returns to Oral Questions
  5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  6. Acknowledgements
  7. Oral Questions
  • Oral Question 1548-19(2), Indian Day Schools
  1. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  2. Acknowledgements
  3. Oral Questions
  4. Written Questions
  5. Returns to Written Questions
  6. Replies to the Commissioner's Address
  7. Petitions
  8. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
  9. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
  10. Tabling of Documents
  11. Notices of Motion
  12. Motions
  13. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
  14. First Reading of Bills
  • Bill 93, Practice of Engineering, Geoscience and Applied Science Technology Act
  • Bill 94, Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2023
  1. Second Reading of Bills
  • Bill 64, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 3
  • Bill 92, An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products and Carbon Tax Act, No. 2
  1. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
  • Bill 23, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act
  • Bill 29, Resource Royalty Information Disclosure Statute Amendment Act
  • Bill 72, Opioid Damages and Health Care Cost Recovery Act
  • Committee Report 52-19(2), Standing Committee on Rules and Procedures Report on the Review of the Rules of the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly
  • Minster's Statement 264-19(2), Response to the NWT Chief Coroner's Report on Suicide
  • Tabled Document 681-19(2), Government of the Northwest Territories Response to Committee Report 26-19(2): Report on the Child and Family Services Act - Lifting Children, Youth and Families: An All of Territory Approach to Keeping Families Together
  • Tabled Document 940-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 20230-2024
  • Tabled Document 941-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 20230-2024
  1. Report of Committee of the Whole
  2. Third Reading of Bills
  • Bill 90, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 5
  1. Orders of the Day

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

May 31st

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Thursday, June 1st, 2023 at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 5:31 p.m.