Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Quebec has passed legislation to ban private health agencies in major centres by December of this year and throughout the province by the end of 2025. So my question is to the Minister of health, will she also ban the use of agencies in the Northwest Territories so we can restore integrity to our public health care system in the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Range Lake. Minister for Health and Social Services.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is a conversation that I actually had with Minister Holland last week, is the effect of, you know, agency nurses on our health care system and this is a discussion that I will continue -- I will be raising at the national level because as currently right now in the Northwest Territories, we have seven agency nurses working. And so if I was to say we are out of the 400 and some staff positions, for me to say I'm banning agency nurses and the rest of Canada doesn't do that, you know, I hear what the Member is saying, but the Northwest Territories can't do it alone so we're going to need -- I'm going to need help from the rest of the territories and provinces to do something like this. And I'm glad to hear, you know, some of the work that's going on in the rest of the country because this is an issue. This is an issue on our health care system. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well I heard a no, but I appreciate the Minister's position. So can she explain why we're so reliant on agency -- on public -- or private agencies in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

I could let Minister of housing answer, but I don't know if he'll get the answer he wants. Sorry, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, you know, the North -- the NTHSSA uses agency nurses as a last resort. This is not something that we want to do but when it comes to closing beds, closing units, you know, we seen this happen two years ago when the obstetrics -- you know, that -- you know, and we raised it in this House. It was raised in this House that, you know, the costs of the two-month closure and the impact on all of those families that had to travel due to the closure, you know, if we're talking about closing a unit versus hiring some nurses to ensure that people are not sitting down in Edmonton incurring us costs and away from their family for -- you know, sometimes they leave two weeks before and then they are there two weeks after their due date before they deliver. So, you know, there's many other things.

We also will use them in surgery, in the dialysis, in the operating room, post anesthetic, and most recently we ended up in an emergency situation where Inuvik Regional Hospital had to close down their birthing -- you know, members that were due had to fly out for that short period of time.

So these are specialty areas and so in order for us to keep those units going and less impact to the patients, that's where we use them. We don't want to use them but if we had the option to hire a term or something, we would. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm glad the Minister doesn't want to use them. So how much is it costing us? How much is it costing us a day and how much -- and over time, has it changed since COVID? That's my question. Are we paying more now than before the pandemic? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And keep it short, yes, we are paying more now before the pandemic because we didn't use them for 15 years before without the OBS unit closed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you to the Minister for the brief answer. Mr. Speaker, how is the authority -- the health authority communicating to our local workforce that these aren't temporary measures, these are not replacing them, and we value their work, and we want to pay them what they -- for the hard work they do for our communities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Sorry, Mr. Speaker. I can do it short, but I can do it -- so I could give the answer. So currently the NTHSSA is finalizing its formal employee engagement strategy. This is a draft strategy that's been distributed to all the staff members for their input, and they are actively seeking feedback. So executive-led council meetings provide a platform for discussion and feedback gathering, to communicate effectively with staff, the NTHSSA uses various channels, including daily staff emails, monthly coffee breaks, COO communication with staff monthly through their own newsletter, regular staff tailgate. You know, and I know that this area is hard because they work 12 hours a day, 24 -- or 12-hour shifts 24 hours a day and sometimes they're not able to always get the information. So if there's ways that -- and I mentioned it yesterday -- to better this communication, you know, please feel free to bring those discussions to me. Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services. Oral questions. Member from Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm going to have questions for the Minister of health as well, and as a matter of fact I have doctor questions but I was just realizing I have nursing agency questions, so I'm going to build on my colleague's questions here, Mr. Speaker.

What has the department done to reengineer the nursing agency problem because this is an attack on the health system as pointed out by my good colleague. And even the Premier of Manitoba has defined it as a crisis and attack on the health system. So in other words, to the question, Mr. Speaker, what is the department doing to reengineer the nursing agency problem and fixing it here in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife Centre. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, like I said in my previous statement is that we haven't used agency nurses pre-COVID for at least 15 years, and so this is something that has come because of the health care crisis post -- like, post the pandemic. And so right now what we're doing is strategically within the NTHSSA and within the department is, you know, we're identifying where there's high needs and, you know, and I think the plan -- like, the work that's going on right now is to try and home grow -- like, some of the nurses that are employed by our department in these specialty areas. So that is one way that we can try and eliminate using the use of agency nurses. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I've recently talked to some nurses -- let me try it again. Agency nurses; there we go. So I'm not sure, there's six, there's ten, there's a hundred; I have no idea. How does the Minister know that there's this minimum, or maximum as she's trying to describe as six or seven, and where are they? I'm trying to -- because if she says the numbers are so low, it should be easy to explain where they are. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the reason that I know this number because it was asked of me, and so I asked the department, where are these nurses and how many do we actually have right now working, and there was seven and they're in obstetrics. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well yeah, I'll start with that. That's a good point. Seven too many, of course. And I spoke to one who was a former nurse in the Northwest Territories, and she told me it's way more lucrative to quit her job and move south to become an agency nurse. Mr. Speaker, as I said, what is the department doing to reengineer the nursing agency problem and to define this; what is the issue that seems to be blocking the problem that the department doesn't seem to understand? Why are nurses quitting to become agency nurses to come back home to the Northwest Territories and work?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm not sure how many nurses have left the health care system to become agency nurses or to become term nurses because they want to go be closer to their family. There are different reasons for it, Mr. Speaker. Myself who worked as a -- alongside agency nurses at the beginning of my nursing career, there wasn't an option for me to pack up and go live some other territory because I was from here. So, you know, I think that's -- you know, when I hear the Member saying that it's more lucrative, well, you know, we have, you know, a different group of individuals that are coming out of nursing school and they're not settling down, wanting to live in this one certain area. Some of the nurses that I've -- like had spoken to throughout my career say they're fine with just travel because it gets them around the country and because it's the nature of the health care system right now. They're able to go and people are paying for them to fly around the country. They're seeing the world. They're taking off the time when they need to. Right now, the Northwest Territories is doing what they can do to work with the staff to try to promote. I think I've read off a list of things that we're doing that we can do. You know, our salaries are equivalent to the rest of Canada. There's -- and I'll -- I'll leave it there, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services. Final supplementary. Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I appreciate your eye on the clock because, my goodness, we'd be through question period before we got to all the Members based on some of these answers.

She said we're doing whatever we can. You're paying the agencies too much. It's that simple. That simple. Mr. Speaker, money is the problem and the Minister says well, you know, I don't know but the reality is people leaving here because they know they get paid more coming back here. It's not about family.

So, Mr. Speaker, my question specifically to the Minister is is she willing to table publicly a wage comparison package of what our local nurses are paid versus what the agencies are paying their staff just to come back to the Northwest Territories and work? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would be able to table what our nurses are making but I can only table what we pay the agency because they don't disclose to us what they pay their staff. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services. Oral questions. Member from Mackenzie Delta.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the department of education. Is the department looking at eliminating the practice of socially promoting our students of the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Mackenzie Delta. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.