Debates of Oct. 20th, 2025

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

Thank you. Okay, because I know this $14 million came about because the majority of the people -- or majority of the positions affected Yellowknife school. You know, like, I think we were talking about, like, 75 positions that were affected. And I have an issue with that, you know. If we don't know why $14 million -- or why JP application were denied in -- especially in Yellowknife, was never a major issue for us in small communities because we know the majority of the -- are Indigenous, so it's being utilized well. So why are we spending $14 million? So where is this $14 million going to come from? Thank you.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, this came forward through the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to support the fact that Indigenous children in schools across the Northwest Territories were going to be very directly impacted. 205 positions from across the Northwest Territories were being immediately affected with this first year of denials coming from the federal government. And there were certainly a large number of students affected here in Yellowknife because there's a great deal of Indigenous students here in Yellowknife. We have 50 percent of the population. So while it may not be a majority Indigenous community, there's a lot of Indigenous students here, the highest number of any capital city anywhere in Canada. Beyond that, the Beaufort Delta was the second highest number that were being immediately affected because those school boards did not have multi-year funding or their funding programs had expired this year. But those that didn't experience these changes this year were certainly going to be facing that next year. So this is a gap-filling exercise for the moment. Again, we're looking to the federal government to reconsider how they can, you know, get back to the core principles, Jordan's Principle, which is to ensure that Indigenous students wherever they may be, whether it's in a capital city or otherwise, all have access to the kinds of programs and services that we know that they need.

Madam Chair, I'm certainly happy to get a breakdown, but I -- again, I don't know to what extent the boards want that to be necessarily a public number. So I'll just want to make sure that I'm not sharing information on behalf of school boards that they don't want me to, but I can certainly get it to MLAs. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

Thank you. Okay, well, we know that the majority of the positions are going to be allocated in Yellowknife, you know, so we know that, you know. So I just wanted to ask another one too is that is this going to be one-time funding, or is the government going to permanently fund this? Thank you.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Right now, this is a one-time funding situation. And I realize I failed to ask one of the other questions on the last round as to where it's coming from. This is being debt funded. We are not in a position where we have excess money in the education system. We are looking for, and we've made that very clear to the federal government. So there already have been, I understand, some changes and some modifications where they will accept individual applications that come through a school board but, again, this is their program, and I'm hesitant to say what changes they have made or will make. But, really, Madam Chair, the focus here is on Indigenous northern students. This is who are -- these are the students that are losing the funding. Again, 25,000 people live in the city of Yellowknife, and I think approximately 30 percent of them are Indigenous Northerners. So to the extent that those children are affected first, they are affected first. The Beaufort Delta is second in line right now, though. They have a large number of children that were affected. And it really -- this is a gap-filler but it's really a line of sight on the federal government to say we cannot continue to support this. It was a legislated program, and it was put in place because we all recognize, I believe, that Indigenous children have been historically and systemically not given the same opportunities that non-Indigenous children have. So, again, I'll stop there, Madam Chair. Again, my frustration on this one is that despite a lot of requests, that we are still waiting to see what the federal government might do. Again, I'm hopeful that we will see some changes that make this not a program that the GNWT has to take on. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

I see it says here, you know, service gap relating to educational support assistants. Why, why only this? Why not on speech and language, OT, etcetera, to help improve the outcome of our students, the educational outcome for our students, especially those starting at elementary, JK? The overall picture here should have been focusing on improving the education outcome. You know, in small communities we have on average less than 50 percent graduation rate compared to over 80 percent in Yellowknife, you know. The outcome for YK is better than small communities, and we know it has always been like that with funding allocations. The federal government gives the money to the territorial government and once it gets distributed to the small communities, we get a small portion. It's always been like that. We always been a disadvantage and I am, you know, kind of disappointed because now this $14 million came about to support larger regional centre. If this was already happening in small communities, I don't think we would get that attention. If Yellowknife graduation rate was low, it would get national attention. And what do we get? We get nothing. You know, like, I mean, here we're -- our young people leaving high school. They all -- all of them, the majority of them, enter high school or college going upgrading. There's, you know, OCAP and UCAP through Aurora College. And it doesn't look good. It doesn't look good. It's just that it should have been the focus right from beginning when they're allocating money. We shouldn't have to fight for this money. But we are, you know, and it's disappointing. I am disappointed with that because I think small -- the results, the educational outcome should have been the focus, central focus. There's no way that, you know -- it's hard for us. It's going to be hard for us now because we lack a lot of services. It's going to be hard for us, for our young people, who are the future generation, to catch up.

Now I heard from one of my constituents who used to live in Yellowknife. She had to relocate to larger region -- larger centre down south just so that -- because Yellowknife failed to meet her needs through JP program. Now she's going further south with her child. And small community, they go to Yellowknife because the services are better. Now it's the other way around that a lot of our young people are -- or our families or the families are going south for better services. So it's just that I think if they're fighting for -- if they're going to be doing this, they should have been doing more for small communities, more emphasis should have been given for more program and services at the school level because we are -- our young people are always going to be at disadvantage. Small communities are always going to be at disadvantage. It's just -- I don't agree with it, I don't like it, because it's putting a lot of your young people at risk and we're putting their life on hold, and it's just -- it's a disaster. For me it is, you know. It's just not right what we're doing here just because the $14 million -- the larger part, it affects Yellowknife. That's why. So I don't really agree with this or, you know -- it just doesn't sit well with me. Thank you.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the item that came forward from education, culture, employment in response to the federal government's decision to take away money from Indigenous students did not apply to Yellowknife exclusively. It does not apply to any individual community or education body exclusively. It is for school boards who are being denied their funding that they were receiving through Jordan's Principal. If a school board is being denied funding anywhere in the Northwest Territories, they can apply to this fund. It so happens that the two largest school boards in Yellowknife, one of them is not eligible because they are not right now under -- well, they are under a multi-year program and so they are not applying. One of them was under a single-year program, and they are applying. But as I said, Beaufort Delta is another one of the larger centres that is seeing themselves -- finding themselves first affected by the federal government's program cut changes. But, Madam Chair, I don't want to spend a lot of time on this. I see the time on the clock has gone. I can't say enough that even in Yellowknife the numbers came out earlier this spring with respect to graduation rates and success rates of students. Indigenous students in Yellowknife do not perform as well as the non-Indigenous students, and they deserve to have every opportunity as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Next, I have Member for Range Lake.

Oh, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I thought I heard Great Slave but thank you very much for the opportunity to ask questions.

So I too want to query the Minister about this subsidy program for the service gap related to Jordan's Principal funding. Jordan's Principal funding is fundamental to our schools in the Northwest Territories. That's how it's been described by both -- well, I think the Minister at the table and the Minister of education, Minister of health, to the point where it is being referred to as foundational. So I think that creates a challenge because, one, I get the advocacy to the federal government saying this is not optional, you need to step up and continue to deliver the service that you've been providing to support our schools. But if they do withdraw it, then it puts us in a difficult situation if we're maintaining it's foundational to our education system but we can't afford it. So I think we're going to have to take a broader look depending on how these changes go.

So the first thing I want to ask is just a comment the Minister made -- and I don't have the benefit of Hansard, but it was along the lines of there may be some JP funding change discussion that might be had but not here on this item, but to the Minister of education I just want to clarify, is that just if we want to ask questions about Jordan's Principal, it would be better suited for the Minister of education, or is there new information to share that we can expect in the coming days? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I mean, I appreciate the question. I do think that's an important question to ask. It's probably a question to ask to the federal minister. So, I mean, we were just there, all of Cabinet, Council of Leaders met with Minister Gull-Masty, met with Minister Chartrand and, you know, the indications seemed to be that they've heard us because it's certainly not by any stretch the first time that they've heard any one of a number of Ministers saying, you know, this was a legislated program that the federal government came and brought about. No indication that when the program review, you know, for probably not unreasonable grounds was going to come forward as it -- you know, there's certainly stories or anecdotes that seem to suggest the program wasn't being always effectively used. But there's lots of opportunity to show where it was being well used. So we seem to be getting the sense, I would venture to say, from our federal counterparts, we've heard you, you know. We understand that the North is different, we want to respond to the North being different, but as for what that's going to look like, it's gone a little bit quiet and I suspect it's because they have a budget coming out November 4th. So maybe someone will hear more in the coming days. It would likely go first to our education Minister if it does. But at this moment in time, I don't think I have anything more on that one. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Range Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, I appreciate that answer. I would love to ask those questions to the federal Ministers directly, so I'll take that as an invitation to join the Minister on the next trip to Ottawa. That's what -- I think that's what I heard, but I'll follow up with her. Maybe they will this time.

Okay, so -- okay, the total -- we just heard the total amount for JP funding last year was $58.6 million. So if we -- do we have a calculation for -- if we remove the multi-year funding that is not being lost, so for school districts like Yellowknife Catholic schools that have multi-year arrangements that aren't lapsing, do we know what that looks like? Like, what was the anticipated amount of Jordan's Principal funding that we are covering or that has created the gap? What is the total quantum, financial quantum of the gap? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have that. The $58.6 million number that I had put forward is based on the current fiscal year and really for education authorities only. And when adding in 2025-2026 but then also considering that there would have been some elements, for example, if there's diagnostic services or treatment services or care, health care related services, I don't have that number. So the number certainly does start to grow when we add all of that in. I can see if we can put that together. It may be that it is -- I don't have in front of me right now. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Range Lake.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I appreciate -- just to be clear, I will -- I mean, I'm going to continue to ask questions, but I appreciate this emergency funding, and I support it. I think it came a little late, and it's still -- until we know what that total quantum is, it's unclear whether $14 million is a significant amount. So my other question related to this is there's strings attached to this money. The Minister spoke to some of the eligibility requirements. But one of them is that education bodies have to first use their surpluses. So do we know how much surplus money is being spent alongside this $14 million? So how much surplus from the education bodies is being spent alongside the $14 million? Thank you.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so that would depend, I think, on the individual education bodies. I was -- let me see if -- yes, I mean, it's certainly -- there's an understanding of -- my understanding -- sorry, is that there is work being done with each applicant to determine, firstly, if they have some surplus funding available to them but then also what their own expenditure plans may be. And certainly not wanting to -- certainly by no means a matching criteria, like a one-for-one, but I don't know that there's a specific -- or there is not a specific number that I can provide. Thank you.