This is page numbers of the Hansard for the 20th Assembly, 1st Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

Topics

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Shauna Morgan

Shauna Morgan Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't actually have questions for the Minister, but I wanted to comment, or take this opportunity to comment, you know, following up on a similar theme, actually, as my colleague. So I just wanted to note that through amendments suggested by the committee we've opened up the possibility down the road for enforcement powers to be extended to other kinds of peace officers through regulations, but there has not yet been a clear public dialogue about what it would mean to expand which kinds of officers can enforce the trespass act, and there's -- you know, even the idea has been thrown around of expanding enforcement powers to, for example, private security guards.

So when the government establishes these regulations, I just want to urge the government to make sure that there is extensive public consultation in that process because I do think it needs to be carefully thought through and understood by all stakeholders and the general public. There was certainly a general feeling in the feedback we got that people want to be able to take some of the pressure off of busy RCMP officers who could be instead out dealing with more serious incidents. And so the idea is, well, just let bylaw officers or sheriffs or maybe private security guards deal with trespassers, except that the way the act is written is that enforcement includes arrest, and people, I think, expect that it must include arrest for the act to be taken seriously. You can't just keep giving people tickets over and over again if they're not paying them or if they're continuously ignoring the warnings and the tickets.

So I understand that we already may have private security guards, for example, handcuffing people or detaining people, and I assume this is under the authority of citizen's arrest, which is supposed to be used to protect people or property if someone is posing an active threat. I do have strong concerns about how that authority is currently being used and potentially misused by the unregulated profession of private security. And I spoke about that the other day. But even setting that aside, with the trespass act, we're contemplating something different. We're contemplating arresting people for the simple act of being somewhere they're not supposed to be, even if they're not engaging in mischief per se or in violence or harassment or any other crime that is actively threatening someone.

Remember that under the trespass act, the lawful owner or occupier of a property can order someone off their property for any reason. Even if they're not causing any specific trouble, you know, the lawful occupier or owner can just say, I want you to leave. And if someone doesn't leave, then they're trespassing. So I think we need to ask ourselves and ask people in the public, do we want bylaw officers or sheriffs or security guards even handcuffing or restraining people simply for being somewhere they're not supposed to be.

What would happen then also? What would be the protocols for handing that person over to the RCMP? And if at that point the RCMP needed to be involved anyway, how does that relieve the burden on the RCMP that was the whole point of expanding enforcement powers?

And another question that pops up in my head is if we leave this question open to municipalities to choose whether or not they want their peace officers enforcing this act, is it good enough for the GNWT to say that, well, that's up to municipalities. They can choose. That's not for us to decide. It's not for us to limit if that's the choice of municipalities. Can we safely assume that people's rights and freedoms will be protected because we're confident that municipalities, if they don't feel they have the right resources or training for their bylaw officers to safely restrain or arrest people, then they won't choose to take that on? Can we safely assume that?

What happens if a municipality feels the pressure of public expectation and decides to go ahead anyways with allowing its bylaw officers to arrest people, for example, even without the proper training? And then what happens if people's rights are violated?

So to be clear, I am in support of this act, but I just want to flag that we have kicked the can down the road on these important questions that are to be discussed and decided through regulations, and I want to make sure that that happens publicly and that people put careful thought into consideration there.

So that's all my comments at this point. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Thank you. Minister of Justice, would you like to respond?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Jay MacDonald

Jay MacDonald Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you for the comments. I think I'll start with your first comment. And I think it's critical that we consult and that we get feedback from the public and the organizations or communities that are interested in being involved here. I think there's two key points here. Our territory is vast, and we're very diverse. The City of Yellowknife as opposed to a community like the size of Tsiigehtchic, there's significant differences in there, and I think that part of that consultation and feedback needs to look at those differences. I think we need to ensure that we're talking with municipalities, with Indigenous governments, and getting all of the feedback that we need as we develop these regulations to ensure that we're approaching it in a very pragmatic way.

So, you know, I think that, you know, as we start out, we have some fairly solid parameters around the RCMP and their abilities and duties within the act, and I think that that is a good starting point, but certainly there are -- there is some work to do on the regulation side. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Thank you. I will now go to Frame Lake. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Julian Morse

Julian Morse Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a number of -- a few questions for the Minister. I guess what I'm going to do here is save us some time and just ask, first of all, are there any recommendations in committee's report that the Minister does not fully concur with? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Thank you. Minister of Justice.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Jay MacDonald

Jay MacDonald Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. My apologies, I don't have the report open in front of me. Pardon me, Madam Chair. I apologize for that.

So there's the recommendation around the security guard. We'll definitely need some -- we'll need to analyze that and look at what that could possibly look like. Yeah, Madam Chair, I think that was the primary one that we had concern with. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Julian Morse

Julian Morse Frame Lake

Okay. Thank you. I think I'm actually just going to go through the recommendations, then, based on that response. Recommendation 1 is that the Standing Committee on Social Development recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories issue clear guidance and instructions to schools across the Northwest Territories on how to use and apply the Trespass to Property Act. Does the Minister concur with that recommendation and commit to carrying that out?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Thank you. Minister of Justice.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Jay MacDonald

Jay MacDonald Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, we -- I would say that we will certainly look into that, but I would say we would be leaning toward being supportive of that direction. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Thank you. I'll go back to the Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Julian Morse

Julian Morse Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, just to continue with the committee report, the other recommendation that I note in there that is particularly of interest to me is the Standing Committee on Social Development recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories create regulations under the Summary Convictions Procedures Act to include ticketable offences for trespassing prior to Bill 34, Trespass to Property Act, coming into force. This is something of concern to me, and I think it was raised during the review and it was one that stood out to me, so I am curious to know how the Minister feels about that recommendation.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Member for Frame Lake, you're addressing the recommendations and not the report of the bill. So do you have questions for the Minister on the report -- of the bill?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Julian Morse

Julian Morse Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I fail to understand how the report about the bill differs significantly from the bill itself. I mean, the report raises recommendations related to the bill's passage. So forgive me for not understanding procedure here, but I thought these were relevant questions and relevant issues raised by the committee about the bill. Am I missing something?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

The committee report will be discussed after the bill. If the recommendations are passed as motions, the government will have 120 days to respond to them. Do you have further questions? Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Julian Morse

Julian Morse Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Maybe what I'll do instead of asking questions is just say that I appreciate the committee's review of this bill and that the recommendations of the committee are strongly related to my ability to support the bill. And so I'll leave my comments at that for now.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Thank you. Next, I'm going to Inuvik Boot Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Denny Rodgers

Denny Rodgers Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm a little scared to ask my question now. I'll be fairly brief. Madam Chair, as the new act will be a law of general application, are there any specific clauses within the Inuvialuit final agreement or the Gwich'in final agreement that specifies that the new act would apply to both their respective lands? I know there are areas of -- specific areas outlined in the claim, but no blanket inclusion. I'm just wondering if the Minister can speak to that. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Thank you. I'll go to the Minister of Justice.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Jay MacDonald

Jay MacDonald Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. That's a level of detail I don't have with me today, but certainly happy to get that information and get back to the Member. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Thank you. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Denny Rodgers

Denny Rodgers Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. And the majority of my questions are around how it affects the land claimant groups in my region, so what I'll do, Madam Chair, is I will email those questions to the Minister and get the responses that way rather than taking up our time today and getting the same response, so thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

The Chair

The Chair Sheryl Yakeleya

Thank you. Minister of Justice, do you want to respond?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 5th

Jay MacDonald

Jay MacDonald Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, happy to take those questions from the Member. Thank you, Madam Chair.