Mahsi, Ms. Martselos. Mr. Simpson.
Territorial Leadership Committee on Oct. 18th, 2019
Transcript of meeting #1 for Territorial Leadership Committee in the 19th Assembly. (The original version is on the Legislative Assembly's site.)
The winning word was need.
A recording is available from the Legislative Assembly.
On the agenda
MLAs speaking
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
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R.J. Simpson Hay River North
Thank you, and I appreciate the question. My speech earlier today focused on changes that could be made by the Premier, not so much broad changes, but the specific items like this, and I think this is exactly the type of thing that needs to be done. A lot of the times with politicians, we are not experts on everything, so we make decisions based on our gut. I don't think that is a good way to make decisions, especially when you are talking about billion-dollar projects.
I know the Government of Northwest Territories, just looking through the literature, has basically already said, "We are doing Taltson, and here are the steps we are taking to get there," but they haven't found a market. We haven't seen any cost projections or any revenue projections. We don't know what they are going to do, and no one does, in terms of revenue they could receive from any potential future mines. We need to think more about this type of information before we start signing cheques; not that we wouldn't sign the cheque, but we need the information.
We also need to look deeper into investment funding, I guess, is a way to put it: funding that might not pay off in the term of this Assembly. It might not pay off for 20 or 30 years, but it needs to be done. Things like early childhood intervention, early childhood education, those types of things that I wish the governments had done 30 years ago. You know, we need to start doing those types of projections well, so I am happy the Member brought this up.
As I stated earlier, as well, these sort of evolutionary improvements to how we do business won't stop after people are sworn into office. They should continually be brought forward and, if they need to be implemented, then we implement them. Thank you.
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Mr. Simpson. Mr. Lafferty.
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Jackson Lafferty Monfwi
Masi, Madam Chair. [Translation begins] In our region, there is a lot of big capital investment going on right now. As Mr. O'Reilly mentioned, there are two big items that are being produced, but right now we have to look at it first to see: is there enough evidence to make proper planning for whatever project is most important and regional corporation, what are they working on, and how are they going to be helping?
If we don't have that, can we try something? In another place, how does it look? Like right now, for example, in the Nunavut province corridor, there is a highway, the caribou are going to go on to the road, so we have to think about all the issues of each project and make sure that we know exactly what is required. Then we can make a proper decision.
There are short-term and long-term projects, and then there is another long-term project that would take us up to 10 years, maybe. How are we going to implement all these, and then how are we going to implement and maintain it? After a big capital project is worked on, we have to figure out which one is most important to us. In Tlicho, when we say "billion," we say "million," which is a billion. That's how much money we have to think about.[End of translation]
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Johnson.
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Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North
[Mic not on] ...senior management of the GNWT cannot make them. In turn, once Cabinet positions are assigned, each person is responsible for their individual department. The Premier is the sole Minister responsible for Executive and Indigenous Affairs, and as such his primary responsibility is to work across departments. The biggest issues we are facing in this territory require us to work across departments.
If you are Premier, how will you work to break down the silos amongst our GNWT departments?
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. We will start with Ms. Martselos, then Mr. Lafferty, then Ms. Cochrane, and Mr. Simpson. Ms. Martselos.
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Frieda Martselos Thebacha
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think cooperation in between departments is extremely important. In leadership roles, sometimes you have to make tough decisions, and when we make decisions, we have to always realize the effects of the decisions that we are actually making. It affects everybody, because, you know, yesterday we had this forum and, obviously, some of the decisions that were being made were not okay. They were not okay to the Indigenous people, so I think not only the departments but also in the leadership role, you have to be able to listen. You have to have an open-door policy. You have to build partnerships. You have to have the necessary contact to ensure that the delivery is done properly.
You have to be thorough, because many times you give direction, and this happens many times, even at other levels of government. You give direction, and the direction was never taken properly. Then your partner that you are trying to serve, who might be another Indigenous government, everything was not the way it was supposed to be in the first place. So we have to make sure that, when we give direction to senior management, the direction is very clear and it's the way it should have been for the people who we serve, whether it be the whole Northwest Territories, whether it be for Indigenous governments, whether it be with the private sector, whether it be other levels of government. We have to ensure that we always understand that the decisions that are made at this level affect the people who we're serving.
I think, if you are able to understand that and be reasonable about it, and keep an open mind and think out of the box, I think that we could be successful. Thank you.
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Ms. Martselos. Mr. Lafferty.
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Jackson Lafferty Monfwi
[Translation] Masi, Madam Chair.[ End of translation] ... work across the departments. We should not be working in silos. There should be synergy; we need to be collaborating in cooperation between all departments. We currently have a social envelope. We have an economic arm envelope, as well. Those departments should be working hand in hand so they can spread the wealth.
What I mean by that is there is funding available to each department. If they can pool that funding together to service the small communities, other communities, I think that would go a long way. We've been doing that for some time, but I think we need to do more of that.
Like the Justice Department and Education. There have been programs in our schools that we've created to bring mental health into our schools, so the Health Department came in along the way, as well, to deal with issues, and the RCMP obviously took part in that, too. So it's all interrelated, like inter-agency.
There are some inter-agencies in the communities that we need to work with, as well. They consist of RCMP, health, community nurses, teaches, and community members, as well. We need to take their advice, too. I'm not sure if all communities have them, but those, the communities that have inter-agencies, we should continue working with them, because they are the experts, giving us advice and feedback that our departments should be listening to, and then providing some support, whether it be resources, and so forth.
So, Madam Chair, I believe that we shouldn't be working in silos. We should be collaborating and working together. Masi.
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Cochrane.
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Caroline Cochrane Range Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Regular Members do have standing committees on social issues, the economy, et cetera. Cabinet also has committees, so we have the same. A social issues committee, which I sit on; I sit on all of the, actually. The economy, environment, so we have a number of committees that actually Cabinet Ministers sit on and, just like standing committee, any Cabinet Minister is welcome at any time to attend any committee, even if you're not on the list.
We also have deputy minister committees, with the same social agendas; economic development, environment, economy, et cetera. So those things need to be continued. I don't take credit for that; that's something that the Premier of the day has done, and I think that's a great idea, but I think we're still missing the point.
The big thing that I find, and I found that over the four years, is that our meetings are so structured all the time. They are very agenda-filled. We come into these committee meetings and we've got a huge agenda, and we deal with the agenda, and then there's a place on it that says "mandate commitments" and we all say, "Look at the mandates and make sure you're doing your job," and that's kind of it. Then, at the end of the Assembly, we all stress and say, "Did we meet those mandate commitments?"
So I think we need to bump it up. It's about relationships; I've said that all day. Everybody has said that all day. So, looking at the possibility, if we're going to really work together, should we have more working groups with MLAs and Ministers combined? That's a good question. We have a Minister of Transparency at this point; I don't know if it will stay. Cabinet will discuss those things, but should we actually make it part of that position, that they actually check on the mandates on a regular basis? Does there need to be somebody? I think there might need to be somebody who actually looks at the mandates on a regular basis and makes sure that the departments, because the mandates are not one department. It's all departments working together to match a priority, so maybe we need to have somebody accountable to that, who actually is responsible for it, so we're not scrambling at the end of an Assembly and saying, "Have we met our mandates?"
Working together and making people responsible. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Questions By Members
Questions By Members
Page 50
The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Ms. Cochrane. Mr. Simpson.
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R.J. Simpson Hay River North
Thank you, and thank you for the question. Again, I spoke about this at length in my speech today. This is one of the areas that the Premier can affect and needs to affect. The lack of collaboration that often happens or doesn't happen between departments affects the GNWT itself, because one department can't do its job because it can't get information from another department, and it affects service delivery. It affects how people, whether they're dealing with Finance or whatever the case may be, it affects how they receive services.
Some of the solutions I suggested were having a policy development unit accountable and that reports to the Cabinet directly, similar to the model that is used for standing committees, adapted as necessary, though. The other thing I suggest is actually using the deputy ministers as the management tools that they are. You know, utilizing their skills in managing their departments and tasking them with ensuring that their departments are cooperating. Often, the information that comes up to the Minister, it's filtered through a lot of people, and the deputy minister is one of those people, but the information is also filtered through people before it gets to the deputy minister.
That is why I also suggested having a feedback loop where the decision makers know what is actually happening on the ground, they know if people are getting information, because, as a Regular Member, we get a report that says everything is fine. If you talk to someone on the ground, things are not fine, and so there needs to be a way that that information makes it up to the Ministers, as well, so we need to task the deputy ministers with ensuring their departments are breaking down silos, are sharing information appropriately, and are working together. There is legislation that has to be followed. You know, there is privacy legislation that might have to be followed, and the last government actually made amendments to that, to allow that to happen, so we are taking steps in that direction, but it just comes down to doing it and following up on it and knowing that it's actually done. We can't just say, "Let's break down silos," and months later say, "How is that silo-breaking-down going?" We need to do our jobs, essentially. Thank you.
Questions By Members
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Mr. Simpson. I believe we have two more people on the list for questions. Ms. Chinna is next.
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Paulie Chinna Sahtu
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Mackenzie Valley Highway will significantly affect the Sahtu region, both positively and negatively. The economic development and access to our natural resources will be also significant, and it will open up lands for development, but also will come the social impacts. The social impacts will also be dramatically seen. Currently, right now, they do exist, but then, once the highway is developed, the bridge is put in, then there are other talks of how are we going to be working towards this project. It's been in the talks for years. Presently, right now, in preparation for the Mackenzie Valley Highway, what are your plans to work towards the forecasted social impacts that may occur in regards to this project?
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Ms. Chinna. We will start with Mr. Lafferty, then Ms. Cochrane, Mr. Simpson, and then Ms. Martselos. Mr. Lafferty.
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Jackson Lafferty Monfwi
Masi. Madam Chair, [translation] once the highway is open to the communities, I agree with what she said. There are a lot of things that come with all-weather roads. We have a lot of social issues that will come into the communities regarding drugs and alcohol, a lot of social impacts once the road is in the community. It also affects the animals, the wildlife, and their food. When an all-weather road is made, before that, we need to look at a lot of things, how the community will be impacted. We've talked about this all-weather road for a long time, and they collected and they did their own research and asked the communities. They talked about how it will impact them, whether it's negative things regarding alcohol and drugs.
Also, with the young people, it increases the social problems in the community. Right now, the Tlicho region is working on the all-weather road, and they did question the young people. I think education awareness is very important and also have certain programs in place to help the communities. Even the road to Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk and also the same as the Sahtu region and Mackenzie Valley, we need to think about these things. Once we have all-weather roads to our communities, we need to do an education awareness way before this happens, so it's important that that happens. We need to prepare and do research before any of these come into place. It's like this. It's like advising each other and questioning each other. This is what happened. Masi, Madam Chair. [End of translation]
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Cochrane.
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Caroline Cochrane Range Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. In all honesty, that is probably the hardest question I have heard today. The social impacts of any kind of infrastructure are huge. I am from Yellowknife, and I remember when the diamond mines came. Like I said, I worked for over 20 years with homeless people, and I saw the STIs increase. I saw teen pregnancy explode. I saw rapes happening constantly. I saw more addictions happening. I saw violence, women getting beaten, all the time. I do not have the answer. I wish I could say: the answer would be you have all the programs, all the supports, in every community to address them. We don't have that, so I am not going to lie to you.
I think that the only thing we can do at this time is education, education, education. Let the communities know that this is what they are going to be dealing with. Talk to the youth. Talk to the family members. Put it on the radio. Put places: call for help if you are in trouble. However, this is going to take a huge amount of resources, to be able to do that for every major infrastructure project that we did in the Northwest Territories, and it will take time to solve. I am open to more suggestions because I would love to have the answer that is feasible, but, at this point, the best I can offer based on my own experience working with homeless women and low-income families is try to let them know what's coming. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. Next, Mr. Simpson.
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R.J. Simpson Hay River North
Thank you, and I appreciate that, bringing the point up and the question. It's an excellent question. You know, a lot of the issues we have in the territory, they became issues a long time ago and we are trying to deal with them. The social impacts that likely, unless we do something, would arise from the Mackenzie Valley Highway are something that we can deal with right now. We can take preventative measures, and I think that is important, and that is something that, like I said, I have been an MLA for four years, I wish things were done 30 years ago that we are talking about now. So this is our opportunity to do that, and we can learn from the road to Tuktoyaktuk, and we can learn from the road to Whati and what's being done.
I know earlier I said that it's going to bring tourism and industry up the valley, but, with those things come problems, come issues. If you have 10,000 vehicles now coming up the highway, there are issues with that, so those things really do need to be mitigated. Again, it is partnering with the Indigenous governments, with the local communities. It's not something that the GNWT can necessarily take a lead on. The communities know the communities, but it's something that the GNWT absolutely has to be a part of and support. Thank you.
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Mr. Simpson. Ms. Martselos.
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Frieda Martselos Thebacha
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that is a really good question, the social impacts when you are dealing with major developments, especially the Mackenzie Valley Highway. I think one way of dealing with some of that is the economic growth that will bring and with regards to resources and some of those other that comes with development is the impact benefit agreements. The impact benefit agreements that you will receive from some of the developments in your area or other areas around along the highway should be spent on preventative measures, awareness programs, making sure that the people understand that there is help available, and enforcement. Enforcement is a big, major issue in every community. Many of us feel that, lots of times, even in Fort Smith, the RCMP are invisible. They are not visible. I think that those are some of the things that we have got to address when you do a development of any kind. Thank you.
Questions By Members
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Ms. Franki-Smith)
Mahsi, Ms. Martselos. Ms. Cochrane.