Transcript of meeting #1 for Territorial Leadership Committee in the 19th Assembly. (The original version is on the Legislative Assembly's site.)

The winning word was need.

A recording is available from the Legislative Assembly.

On the agenda

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Having the dialogue since 2007 with the people around the table yesterday, for people to understand the day-to-day operations of people in the communities and the leaders and what they have to deal with, with very little. I hope that it was an education for everybody in this room to understand that we need stronger regional centres that have the money to make sure that our communities are looked after.

What happened in the last eight years or so, the regional centres, they have been pulling our staff out of them, so they are not serving not only the regional centres, but the smaller communities. We have to realize that there is a bigger place than this place. That was very clear yesterday. There was a lack of trust, and the trust has to be reinstated. We have the opportunity as a group around this table to give back that trust to the Indigenous people of the North. They are the majority, and we have to listen.

I have great respect for every leader around that table because, as one of those leaders in the past, it is very, very difficult to move your mandate when you are dealing with child poverty, you're dealing with people who are having problems in the medical system, or you're having other problems and you don't know how to deal with it because your regional centre has been broken down so that you can't deal with it. If you make a call to Yellowknife here, the central office, it is very difficult.

There was also a sense that they want the claims settled. That was very, very clear, and they also want their agreements in place to be honoured. There are many agreements in place, self-government agreements, and we're not honouring them. We have the Inuvik region. Dwayne Smith, he was very clear on some of the things that he said, and we have to listen and change the way we do things and build those relationships, because those are really precious relationships, very special people. I sat with him since 2007. Some changes in leadership, but it always comes down to the same thing. We have an opportunity to make a difference, and we have to make that difference, not only in Cabinet but as a group. We're all building relationships, and that's the most important thing, is to build our relationship of trust with the Aboriginal people. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)

Thank you, Ms. Martselos. Ms. Cochrane.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There were many things spoken around the table the other day. I am going to talk about ones that hit close to me, in my heart. Of course, we heard about trust and building relationships. We've been talking about that the whole day.

Another one that I heard is they kept saying, "This is a historical meeting." This government's been in operation almost 50 years. I've heard that. We've been trying to sell these negotiations for over 30 years, and this was a historical meeting? That's not okay. That, for me, was a priority. I think that we need to take ownership and apologize and do better, because we can do better on that one.

The other thing I heard: is their offer willing to help to deal with the social issues? Again, I try to see, whenever I hear stories, I try to think how that would make me feel. Twenty years ago, like I said, I went and got a degree in social work, and I made a conscious decision as a P1 candidate not to work for the GNWT but to work for non-profit organizations, because I felt that non-profits needed my support. They do a lot of support, a lot better services in all honesty than sometimes the government can because they are not stuck in those boxes that say, "You have to do this" job description.

Many years ago, I came. I left the Northwest Territories, and I took a job for my own career in Salmon Arm and was a minister in a family support centre. A couple of years into that, I got a call from the Yellowknife Women's Society, our homeless shelter for women. Women, some of our most vulnerable populations. They said, "We are going to close the door, Caroline. Please come back and help us." They were in debt $300,000, so I left my job in BC because my commitment is here and my heart was with those women and I had worked many years with them. I came back to the North.

I spent a couple of years, actually, and I brought them out of debt and they are doing well now. I had gone to the government for many years before I left here and said, "Please, you are trying to make us survive off $30,000 for funding. We are losing women. We don't even have food. We are not paying our staff. We are picking choices and saying, 'Who gets paid today? Who has children and needs to get paid?'" We were feeding them hot dogs that we were throwing out because we didn't have the food security programs in Yellowknife. People were bringing food. Staff were bringing food from their own freezers to feed the women.

I tried a different tactic, and I went to the government and said, "Okay. I have been crying for 20 years. Arlene Hache has been crying. Everybody has been crying to help us, and you haven't heard us. How about if I help you? I don't want money. Let's work together." And still the government said, "Thank you, Caroline. Thank you very much." We do that very well. "We will call you if we need you," and they never called us.

I heard yesterday the word "colonization," and you know what? That is exactly one of the priorities that I have, because if we are going in there and we are saying that we are going to work with Indigenous governments but it is on our terms because we know better, then we are starting the relationship on the wrong foot to start with. We need to sit down at the table and say we are all equal here, because none of us is better. Self-government is not about us telling them what to do. It is about them defining their own future to be the best for all of us.

We need to stop, and sorry if I offend Members, but sometimes we are very colonistic in our approach, and we need to stop doing that. We need to sit down at the table as equals, as equal governments, government to government, not one government over the other. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)

Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. Members, I direct your attention to the presence of former Members in the gallery: Ms. Bisaro, Mr. Moses, and Mr. Nakimayak. Welcome back to the Chamber. Next, I will turn the floor over to Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I just want to take a moment to congratulate the four candidates who have put your name forward. Thank you very much for doing so.

As we go on, it is getting harder to get new ideas and questions out, but the Auditor General of Canada concluded in October of 2017 that GNWT efforts on climate change had failed. We did make some progress in the last Assembly, but I think we still have some way to go. I would like to ask each of the candidates: what specific policy, legislative, and/or structural changes would you propose to ensure that the GNWT can meet international greenhouse gas reduction targets? Once again, policy, legislative, or structural changes. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. For this question, we will start with Mr. Simpson, then Ms. Cochrane, Mr. Lafferty, and Ms. Martselos. Mr. Simpson, you have the floor.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a big question in the territory. When we talk about climate change, we often talk about adaptation because, as everyone knows, we are feeling the effects more than the rest of the world, essentially. There definitely need to be some strides taken to address that issue.

You know, we met with the Association of Communities, and the communities have been suffering greatly from this. I know Inuvik has been hit harder than anyone else in terms of the costs of keeping up with climate change, in the tens of millions of dollars. We need to utilize our expertise in certain areas. Right now, and unfortunately, this is going to become our expertise. This is an area in which we can build capacity, you know, climate change mitigation and adaptation.

It is tough in terms of reducing our greenhouse gases. I know that the carbon tax came in, and the whole point of the carbon tax was to reduce use by increasing costs. We are already at the point in the territory where our costs are so high that there is not much to give, you know. How much less are you going to drive? How much colder are you going to keep the house? This is a difficult issue, but there are steps that we can take. I know the government has been taking some in terms of installing biomass heaters, but there are additional things we can do, as well. There are interesting things happening with energy and heat production. I know that SSi Energy in Fort Providence has a project that they are getting off the ground to reduce emissions. There is the opportunity for converting diesel generators to biomass. There might not be a massive reduction in greenhouse gas. I don't have the numbers on me, but it would also create jobs as well.

We are in a tough position because we are feeling the effects so much more than the rest of the territory, but it doesn't mean that we get to stand by and claim that, "Well, since we are feeling the effects, we don't have to do anything." It is a hard reality. You know, not a lot of people want to hear that, but it is the reality of life in the North.

I look forward to the discussion next week in terms of our priorities to see what this Assembly wants to do going forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)

Next, we shall go to Ms. Cochrane.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Climate change is serious, and it is affecting not only us, but it is affecting the whole world. We often stand here and talk about how we are making changes for our children, for our grandchildren, for future generations, and yet we are not moving ahead as fast as we need to on climate change.

One thing I would like to do is I do think that, and I said that in my speech, we need to have a group, a working group, not just a token group, but a real group that maybe stays focused for the whole four years that is comprised of Cabinet Members, Regular MLAs, and Indigenous leaders, and we need to look again at our 2030 NWT Climate Change Strategic Framework because, although it is a good document, I don't believe that it was done in proper consultation and I think it could be a way stronger document. I would like that working group to actually take that on.

The big thing for me, it is not about legislative changes and policies and structural changes; we have talked about that. We need to look at green energy in our buildings and moving policies to incorporate in anything we do, our building, et cetera.

The bigger thing is this is an international issue. This is not a territorial issue. We need to be willing to put our name forward on behalf of the NWT nationally and internationally. We have a duty to bring awareness to the whole world on what is happening. Some countries aren't being affected as much as us, but they will be. We need to be internationally seated so that we can actually learn best practices across the world. Many countries do things better than us, and we are kind of hesitant to take them. We need to find out what is working and adapt them into ours, and we need to bring our own issues on a world basis and talking to them about what we are experiencing in the North, because people are not taking it seriously enough. If you don't see it, often you don't deal it with. We need to bring this to their face, to their attention internationally, and say this is affecting our whole world.

It is one thing to deal with the social program or make a legislation, make a policy, but this is our future, and this is something that we need to, from this day until the end of time, we need to take this seriously. Thank you, Mr. Chair

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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)

Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. Mr. Lafferty.

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Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Masi, Mr. Chair. Climate change has such a huge impact for us here in the Northwest Territories. We are experiencing it, and also experiencing a rapid warming. Significant changes, obviously, in our wildlife. The caribou are a prime example for our jurisdiction, and fire, and others. It does have an impact on the communities' infrastructures, and health, and also their safety. We have heard yesterday from the mayor of Paulatuk, Mr. Ruben, about his travels with family members, and they lost two machines. That is a real life, Mr. Chair, and we obviously need to do better with our own initiatives.

We do have some strategies in place within the GNWT, the climate change framework 2030 and 2030 energy strategy. Those are just some of the documents that we have created. I am a firm believer that we need to have our own northern solution, northern package, that has the voice the North, the people the North, and so they can have their handprint on the actual legislation that goes through this House to deal with the climate change, the global warming, carbon pricing.

So those are just some of the areas that we have been hearing from the federal perspective, federal coming down on us and saying, "This is what you are going to do." We stood against that, and now I feel that we need to do more in those areas. We need to have our own. We're crafting up our own legislation that meets the needs the North. Let's reach out to the elders. Let's reach out to the communities. Those community harvesters are the experts. They deal with this day to day. Us, sitting around the table, we do not. I am a hunter myself, but I am not as expert as those elders are who are 80, 90 years old, who can tell us stories similar to the one yesterday. We need to hear more of those, those stories, and the sharing.

Elders have always told us, "Share your stories, and plant the seed within your Legislative Assembly." One of my elders, Pierre Beaverho, is a prime example. They want us to move forward with their ideas and share in their stories. So, Mr. Chair, there are a lot of areas that we can tackle, climate change and carbon pricing, but we do have some strategies in place. I believe we can expand on that, as well, but it has to be a northern solution. Masi, Mr. Chair.

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Deputy Clerk Mr. Glen Rutland

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Martselos.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Well, I have a northern solution for climate change. I think that the climate change solution should be integrated into the polytech university and it should be situated in Inuvik because of the eroding shore, and the Arctic is there, and we should have a place of study so that all people of the world would want to come, Canada and all of the people of the Northwest Territories, because I feel that it's such an important issue that we should have specialized people who would be teaching specialized courses on how to accommodate the issue of climate change. That should be part of the polytech university/university of the North.

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Deputy Clerk Mr. Glen Rutland

Thank you, Ms. Martselos. Just a reminder to all Members to please do ensure the red light is on before you start speaking, just to ensure that those people who are watching at home are able to hear. I will now go to the few Members left who have yet to ask a question. I will go to Ms. Chinna, first. Ms. Chinna.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would just like to comment on our meeting yesterday with the Indigenous groups. Yesterday, I was observing to hear all of the comments made around the table and the need for government to start engaging with the Aboriginal groups the settlement of land claims and working with the self-government negotiations and trying to work together to support them to finalize.

I wanted to elaborate on the Sahtu region because I feel that there is a lot of success that has happened in that region. They are dealing with climate change. They have started to work and install their solar panels and also working towards ensuring the K'ahsho Got'ine District is that they are installing wood stoves for each of the community membership and also working towards and looking at the Great Bear River bridge and the opportunities that come with it. I think that it is imperative that we start recognizing these successes within Indigenous groups and working with them, and not acknowledging them as clients, acknowledging them as partnerships.

With these success stories, I think that we should elaborate on them, and I think that going forward that it's imperative that we meet with them regularly and on a consistent basis. I think that we could actually learn something from them through their successes and through their own initiatives in working with the federal government and the money that they are actually accessing in becoming independent on their own. I think, going forward, my question is: how will the Premier ensure that the Indigenous and self-governments and local governments are supported and to be encouraged to work with them as partners and not clients?

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Deputy Clerk Mr. Glen Rutland

Thank you, Ms. Chinna. The order for responding to this question will be Ms. Cochrane, Ms. Martselos, Mr. Simpson, and Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Cochrane.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am starting to feel a lot of the answers are kind of being restated all the time. Again, it's about relationships, and it's about taking a different approach. It's about not thinking that we know the best solutions for everything, and that the only way we will build partnerships is if you listen to us or you agree to our terms. Taking down those walls is one of the big factors.

The other thing I spoke about in my speech is actually meeting with Indigenous governments and community governments on a more regular basis and building, with Indigenous governments, regional economic plans. If we actually work with our governments, all governments, and sit at the table and say, "What would help you in your communities," not saying we know but, "What would help you in your communities? What would that look like? What do we both have to put on the table?" I think that we would actually work better, and we would get better services for our people. That is what we are here for, is to provide better services for our people.

Again, like I say, it's about being willing to meet more often. I like the idea, and I put it in my speech, about a regional economic plan so that every community is flourishing. Prosperity for all needs to be a slogan, a priority, that we take within this government, and we need to pull up our socks and be willing to sit down and be willing to say that we are not the experts; we are not the bosses; we are all, government to government, on equal ground, and never forget that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Deputy Clerk Mr. Glen Rutland

Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. Ms. Martselos.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

I have been dealing with this file since 2007, and therefore I feel that my partnerships are built with all Indigenous governments and will continue to build. I have an open-door policy, and they all know that. My door will always be open for any Indigenous government, any Indigenous leaders to ensure that their mandate and our mandate are looked at and mediated in the proper manner. Thank you.

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Deputy Clerk Mr. Glen Rutland

Thank you, Ms. Martselos. Mr. Simpson.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. I find that, when a government has a mindset, that that is from the top down. We could see it in some of the departments in the last Assembly. Some of the personalities filtered down through some of the departments, and I think that's the situation with the Government of the Northwest Territories. There is an idea that the GNWT has the authority, will always have the authority. That is why I have been thinking about what the GNWT is going to be in the future and beginning that transition. In terms of working as partners, that is essential. We heard it around the table so much yesterday, where everyone said that we are better together. We can access more federal money together, as well.

You know, if the Government of Canada sees us working in partnership as opposed to butting heads, as opposed to competing for money, we will have more success, and ultimately that is money coming into the territory. We are all residents of the territory, so the more money that comes in for our residents, the better.

I also go back to something else that was said yesterday, which is that we need to do a better job educating the people who work with the Indigenous governments or with the small communities about the agreements and about the place of Indigenous governments in the territory. We are partners, but when you respond to an ad online, and you move up from Toronto, you might not realize that. You have a different mindset. We have to do a better job educating our people about that as well.

Basically, it comes down to a change in attitude. You know what? We need a change in attitude from the top down. It is going to filter down through the ranks so that we will exemplify that attitude of partnership and cooperation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Mr. Lafferty.

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Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Masi, Mr. Chair. I would just like to say thank you to the Sahtu entrepreneurs, businesspeople, and also community members for starting up solar panels wood stove initiatives and other initiatives that they talked about yesterday. We have to start appreciating those thinking outside of the box and going out on their own initiatives. Those are pilot projects that we, as the GNWT, always look for and explore. I would like to thank the Member for her specific questions about partnership versus clientele.

Clientele, clients, is basically a banking term, my clients. I, for one, see community members as our family, a partnership. We have to get away from this "kwet'ii yatii." Kwet'ii yatii means these are terminology from outside, outside of our Legislative Assembly, outside of the Northwest Territories. We have to start using our own terminology. That is creating partnerships. We have talked about that so many times, how we can work together, recognizing their success and other communities' success. We should be appreciating that they have gone far enough that we should be stepping up to the plate with them. "How can we assist? How can we be your partner? You started something that will benefit the community, the region, the whole Northwest Territories." We should be open to those ideas.

Yesterday, I was kind of hearing, pleading, "Well, we have been waiting on the GNWT and federal government, but we are not getting anywhere, so we are going to go out on our own." Good on them. That is excellent initiative. We should be proactive. As a government, going forward, as a brand-new government, let's be proactive and meet with those individuals, meet with the successful business entrepreneurs in the community, small business owners. They have so many good ideas that can generate our discussions around the table here, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to congratulate the Sahtu region, and other regions as well, for coming out with their own ideas, their own initiatives. Community solutions is an example of a northern solution. Masi, Mr. Chair.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. I will now turn to Ms. Semmler for her question.

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Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have heard from our residents, the other candidates, and our communities that we need to find ways to support our residents who are struggling with addiction and homelessness. This is not a Yellowknife issue. It is not a regional centre issue. It is in all of our communities, just less visible. It has been asked to previous governments for treatment in the Northwest Territories, and it has always been told that this is not the best option. We also know that there is no support for those who do take the option to go outside and return home. How will you, as a Premier, address this, if it is a priority of this government, in all of the NWT communities? Thank you.