Transcript of meeting #1 for Territorial Leadership Committee in the 19th Assembly. (The original version is on the Legislative Assembly's site.)

The winning word was need.

A recording is available from the Legislative Assembly.

On the agenda

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. Mr. Simpson.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you. It's patently wrong to ignore an agreement. We had meetings with Indigenous leaders yesterday, and one of the comments was that the employees of the GNWT, at least the senior management or the people who deal with Indigenous governments, should be familiar with the agreements and the content of the agreement, and I think that's an excellent policy. I think moving forward, it's something we need to implement because to just ignore something that is written and so obvious, that's just plain wrong.

Negotiated contracts have fallen out of favour in the last government, it seems. The government was very concerned about their bottom line. They didn't want to spend a penny more than they had to. It didn't matter if that meant that the money would flow out of the territory. I know, in the South Slave, when there is a negotiated contact, what often happens is that, if there was work to be done near a community, the company will go to the community and talk to the Chief and Council and say: what can you do for this project? Are people looking for work? What can you offer?

It's more than just a company getting money. In many cases, even when it's a private company, we need to start looking at the benefits of keeping money in the territory on a larger scale in terms of negotiated contacts, but when it comes to following the letter of an agreement, that's a no-brainer. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. We have time for one more question before we take a lunch break. I'll offer the final question of the morning to Ms. Wawzonek.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think over the last two weeks, almost everyone in this room has recognized the importance of our vastness and our different geography, and how important it is that we see ourselves as united. It is clear that, if one region or if one community is failing, that we are all going to be struggling. I'd like to ask this morning where you see our capital city fitting into your vision for the future of the Northwest Territories.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Ms. Wawzonek. The order this time will be Mr. Lafferty, Ms. Cochrane, Mr. Simpson, finishing with Ms. Martselos. Mr. Lafferty.

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Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Masi. Mr. Chair, we service 33 communities in the Northwest Territories, and the City of Yellowknife is part of that, and the regional centres in the communities and also the other isolated communities. We have to include Yellowknife, as well. There is the City of Yellowknife that we need to work with. There are the Dene communities, YK Dene, that we have to work with. They are our neighbours in Yellowknife, as well, so those are important groups that we need to work with and other communities, as well.

As we heard yesterday, clearly, from Aboriginal leadership, they want us to focus on infrastructure in their communities. We have to prioritize where there is infrastructure much needed. Where there is a school burned down in one of the communities, obviously that will be a first priority; where there is a gymnasium being built in Yellowknife. That does take time to negotiate with the federal government. I have been through with the Education Minister of the day. Some projects take time, but sometimes we have to balance all communities as much as possible.

At the same time, we heard from leadership yesterday that everything funnels through the City of Yellowknife, but, at the same time, we have to be open-minded. Any projects that come to the table, what is the benefit of the communities, not just the City of Yellowknife but surrounding communities? I have a community that is close to Yellowknife, Behchoko. How is Behchoko benefitting from a major infrastructure such as Stanton Yellowknife in Stanton and Yellowknife, and that also serves the communities, as well? We have to be open-minded, and we serve 33 communities; not 32 communities, but 33 communities.

When it comes to infrastructure programming, I am a firm believer that we should discuss all projects that are before us and make decisions on our priorities and our mandates coming from these Assembly Members. There will be times that we have to make tough decisions, where a project, let's say, instead of going to Yellowknife because there is a major issue that is happening in the Sahtu region, then we should seriously consider it, but it should have input from the Members, as well, before we proceed with that. With that, Mr. Chair, masi.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Cochrane.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have often stated in this House and in public that a society is judged by how we treat our most marginalized populations. However, I also have stated in this House that I come from a family of eight children. At no time did my parents give the youngest child all the food. Every child in that family of eight was provided food enough to live.

I have heard here today that we need to support our Indigenous governments and our small communities, and we absolutely do. However, we also have to be conscious that half the population is in Yellowknife. I have a special gift, Mr. Chair, in that I am Metis and that my mother, like I said, is Indigenous and my father is non-Indigenous. That taught me from very young to be able to take care of the needs of all people. We are not only Indigenous people in the Northwest Territories. Half of us are Caucasian and non-Indigenous, as well. We have an obligation to take care of everyone. However, we need to be just within that. In my speech, I talked about having economic development plans for every region, and that is critical, but when I said "every region," I meant every region. The capital is part of our community of the Northwest Territories, and we cannot forget their needs, as well. It's not one over the other. It's everybody gets a piece of the pie, in a fair way.

The polytechnic university is a great example. I know that some people are saying, "Do not build in Yellowknife." However, Yellowknife campus is bursting at the seams and, in Fort Smith and Inuvik, student housing is needed. Do I just say one or the other? I have not said that. I have said right through: three strong communities; three strong campuses; and at least 21 strong community-learning centres. Every decision that we make in this House has to have the interests of all residents and all communities, not favouring one over the other, but not forgetting one because of the other. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. Mr. Simpson.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I stated earlier, Yellowknife for decades has had one of the highest household incomes in Canada. It has been a very wealthy city, but times could be changing. The three diamond mines are facing closures within the decade. That would result in hundreds of millions exiting the city. There could be a possible population drain. There are challenges that Yellowknife is facing, and we need to prepare for those challenges. How do we do that? Well, that is why I am looking forward to the priorities meeting that we are having next week, because, you know, I spend a lot of time here. I try not to spend too much, but I am not the expert on Yellowknife, I am not the expert on mining, and I would like to hear from the rest of the Members.

However, we do need to prepare for the future. I have said many times that it seems like every Assembly is just scrambling to catch up with whatever disaster is currently occurring. You look at the Slave Geological Road. I think Diefenbaker brought that up in 1952 or 1956. The Mackenzie Valley Highway, I mean, you know, before I was born is when people were talking about that. So we need some sort of long-term vision. We need to have a plan. I think that we always need to play to the strengths of communities or regions.

In Hay River, I talked about there is potential for growth, so the government needs to support that. We need to support the potential for growth in Yellowknife. Tourism is big here. It could be much bigger, but there are limitations in terms of hotels, in terms of facilities, and all of that kind of stuff. We need to look at the prospect of a university. Are the headquarters going to move to Yellowknife? I do not think so, but is there a potential for growth? This is a city where people from outside of the territory want to move. It's attractive in a lot of ways, especially for young professionals, so I could see parts of a university thriving here. Those are the kinds of things that we need to be talking about, and I look forward to having those conversations. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Finally, Ms. Martselos.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

I believe that Yellowknife will exist within the Northwest Territories, and we are all here to make sure all regions are treated equally, but, you know what, the concentration of the wealth in Yellowknife has got to be spread to other regions. With the new priority of the polytech university, the two main campuses have got to be Fort Smith with its headquarters in Inuvik, because I think that is where it has to be. I am not saying that you are going to close down the campus here in Yellowknife, but it's much easier capital-wise and dollar-wise to build the new residences that are required both in Inuvik and Fort Smith than it is in Yellowknife. It only makes sense. The regional development of this campus is necessary so that we start spreading the wealth a bit.

I firmly believe that, that the regions have also got to exist within the whole Northwest Territories. I respect all the people of the Northwest Territories, no matter where they come from, what walk of life they come from, and I always will remember that Yellowknife is part of that. I appreciate the question, but I also have to remember that the small communities and the regions are not up to the same standard of living as you have here in Yellowknife. I think that it was pretty obvious yesterday that it came out very clear from the Indigenous leaders that we have to do things differently, and I think this government has got to ensure that that mandate is kept. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Ms. Martselos. We have reached the noon hour. As such, we will now take a one-hour break for lunch, and we will reconvene here at 1:00 p.m. this afternoon. Thank you, Members.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)

Good afternoon, Members, and welcome back to the first day of your Territorial Leadership Committee. We are currently in a question-and-answer period, where each Member is able to ask two questions to the candidates for Premier. We will resume the questioning, and I would call on Mr. Jacobson.

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Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today I am going to bring up something near and dear to my heart and the people back home, my elders. We have to start taking better care of our elders in regard to long-term care facilities. We have elders in all regional centres. We have elders from Nunakput in Hay River, Inuvik, and Yellowknife who need to be brought home. It's decentralizing our elders. That is what has to be done.

I am asking here today, working in partnership with our potential Premiers here: how can we bring our elders home and make partnerships with our community corporations in each community that I represent? To train our local people to take care of our own, it is a rippling effect to families. You never see your elders when they leave the communities because of the cost of flights. Sachs Harbour return flight to Inuvik is $1,500; Ulukhaktok, $2,008; Paulatuk, $1,260, return flight to see our elders. The only time you will see your elders is when you are going on a medical or if something comes up. It is not right.

I want our elders to be brought home and to build a four- or six-bed facility in Tuktoyaktuk, Ulukhaktok, and Paulatuk. Now, please, help me help you. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. The order for answering this question will be Mr. Simpson, Ms. Martselos, Ms. Cochrane, and Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Simpson.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you for the question. I am very familiar with long-term care centres. My nana has been living in one now for 12 years, and she is lucky. She has a big family in Hay River, and she gets visits all of the time, every day. It is strange if someone doesn't visit her during the day, but there are people in that same facility from a few communities away, and they don't get any visitors. You can tell that that weighs on them. It is a big impact on your quality of life.

As to building a long-term care centre in those communities, I am not sure what the requirements are. I know that they always say you need a doctor; you need a doctor present. I am not sure if that is the case, but one thing that we can do is fill that gap between people living on their own and people entering long-term care. That includes things like homecare.

If we have much more homecare in the communities, you could have years, five or 10 years more, in your own home. If we have better programs in terms of housing, people can get ramps in their homes. In Hay River, there was a couple, I think, 92- and 93-years-old, where Housing said, "No, you can't get a ramp to your house." We are trying to keep people in their own homes, we are trying to keep people out of long-term care, and we are making it difficult for ourselves.

Those are the kinds of things that need to happen. A commitment to build three long-term care centres, obviously, I can't do that, but I am sympathetic to this, and I realize that there is value beyond the dollar value in keeping people in their own homes. There's the cultural value. It is not just the elders who are missing their families; it is the family who don't get to see their elders, talk to them, learn from them. This is an issue, and it is one of those big issues facing the territory that we don't seem to have a plan for, other than, as one of my colleagues from the last Assembly said, "seniors warehousing units," which are essentially the big long-term care centres.

I look forward to working with everyone. I look forward to discussing this at the priority-setting meetings and seeing what kind of solution we come to. Thank you.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Ms. Martselos.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

I am very sympathetic to the cause, because it is our elders who paved the way for all of our journeys, and we have to respect that. I know that there are situations throughout the territories, and not only with long-term care, because we have a situation like that also in our own community. We have a person here in Yellowknife who has been here for dialysis, and it is such a long way for his family to come. It is a major, major problem. There is dialysis in Hay River, and there seems to be a problem for him to move from Yellowknife to Hay River. At least, then, the family could come to visit on weekends or spend time with him.

It is a major issue, and I think that, as a government, we have to look at these issues and try to resolve them, because our elders gave so much, and then we take them away from the family. They have so much knowledge to offer to the cultural aspect of the family and the community. It is a major problem. We seriously, as a group, have got to look at that. It is not only an issue for the family; it is an issue for the community, and it is an issue for all of us who are sitting around this table.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Ms. Martselos. Ms. Cochrane.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Long-term care is an issue. Taking care of our elders has been an issue. My degree was over 20 years ago, and when I went down south for my social work degree, they were telling us at that time, over 20 years ago, geriatrics is the way to go. Our population is aging, and we need to start taking care of them. Twenty-some years later, we are still in this situation where we are not doing it appropriately.

I stated in my speech, and people that know me know, that I am brutally honest sometimes, and the reality is that I would love to be able to promise and say that, in every small community, we will have long-term care beds in this Assembly, but that would not be a reality. I apologize for that, for not being able to stand up here and lie. No, I am not apologizing; I am just being realistic.

We have shortages of healthcare staff in every region, so we need to look at boosting up our staffing at the moment, what we have, before we can even expand and move any further with that. I said in my speech that we need a stronger recruitment and retention strategy to deal with that.

The other thing that I heard in the Member's comment was also working in partnership. I have to say, in that region, the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation is really progressive in working towards actually training their people in stuff. I think that there are options. We are moving into the polytech university, hopefully. We will be looking at training our own northern people, and I think that, if we work in partnerships with our Indigenous governments, we will actually be a lot more productive and we will be more successful. To train a nurse, you're looking at at least four or six years, depending on the specialization, maybe longer. We don't have that time. We need to work in partnerships together to do that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Mr. Lafferty.

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Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Masi. Mr. Chair, we need to be proactive on this particular subject. I totally agree that we need to bring our elders and seniors back home. How do we do that? That is a question that we need to work out. I have been through that so many times visiting hospitals over the last 14 years as a Member. Elders just want to be home with their family. They just want to die peacefully at home, not in a hospital. Due to that fact, we have built regional seniors' homes, particularly in my region, Behchoko. That services the outlying Tlicho region as well, but we need to go beyond that.

I believe Mr. Jacobson raised the issue: why couldn't we partner with the community corporations? They have brilliant ideas. They can come to our table and say, "This is what we can build for you. Can we lease it back to the GNWT?" Those are just some of the options that we can certainly work with. Partnership goes a long way, Mr. Chair.

Promoting and investing more in homecare, we can do that immediately. Infrastructure will take some time, but we have programs in place already. Why couldn't we invest even more? We are investing in our people, in our elders and seniors. That will go a long way, and we are going to have happy faces on the elders in their communities with their families.

Mr. Chair, this could be an easy solution as part of the programming. With infrastructure, obviously, we need to discuss amongst ourselves, but we already have some facilities in the regions, care centres in the regions, and also, to some degree, some in small communities as well, but we do have programs that we can enhance in the small communities. Masi, Mr. Chair.

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The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Next, I will call on Ms. Cleveland.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My constituents have trusted me to be accountable and in turn expect me to hold our leadership accountable. Therefore, how do you feel MLAs should measure personal performance excellence of a Premier and, if you personally fell short, what would you do about it? Thank you.