Thank you, Ms. Cleveland. The order for answering questions this time will be Ms. Cochrane, Mr. Lafferty, Ms. Martselos, and Mr. Simpson. Ms. Cochrane.
Territorial Leadership Committee on Oct. 18th, 2019
Transcript of meeting #1 for Territorial Leadership Committee in the 19th Assembly. (The original version is on the Legislative Assembly's site.)
The winning word was need.
A recording is available from the Legislative Assembly.
On the agenda
MLAs speaking
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Page 28
The Chairperson (Mr. Mercer)
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Caroline Cochrane Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The first order of actually holding your Premier to account is, in my opinion, we are making speeches today, and so if we are making speeches and we are saying that we are committed, then we better be committed. I would be looking back on the speeches on a regular basis and seeing if we are doing it.
There are other things that won't be in the speeches, and it is about the behaviours of Premiers, of the other Cabinets. I said in my speech, as well, that we need to meet regularly with MLAs. MLAs, we need to work together, so if we are having what is called "fireside chats" or informal meetings, then issues should be brought to the Premier's attention. If the Premier is not doing their job, then they need to be held accountable, as well. Hopefully, the Regular MLAs or Cabinet would actually talk to their Premier first and say, "I have concerns." I have said communication is the key, and we need to be able to do that. We are accountable to the people, so it is not okay that people turn a blind eye to their Premier, to their Cabinet, to other Members. We have to hold each other in check.
In our duties, we have talked about changed governments. Everybody has said that. People are expecting better from us. They are expecting us to work better and to be professional in our duties. If we are not, then there are mechanisms in place to actually take the Premier out of the place.
I say that, if a Premier, whoever it may be, is not doing their duties and not fulfilling the speeches that they have made, then I would be the first one to say that MLAs should discuss it, all MLAs, including Cabinet, and should be looking at putting the Premier on the spot or taking the Premier out of the spot. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. Next, I will turn to Mr. Lafferty.
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Jackson Lafferty Monfwi
Masi, Mr. Chair. Obviously, accountability should be a forefront of our day-to-day business that we do, whether it be Executive or Regular Members. If there are performance issues, whether it be the Premier or the Cabinet or even a Regular Member, we should share about it immediately. If the Premier of the day has to deal with a Minister who is not performing, or vice versa, then Regular Members need to deal with that, as well because, the Regular Members have the power to take out the Premier in a Cabinet. At the same time, if there are issues with Cabinet, that Premier needs to deal with it. Obviously, there needs to be communication and dialogue constantly.
The fireside chats that we have had two Assemblies ago, and we didn't have much of that in the previous Assembly, unfortunately, but we should have, almost every session, there should be a fireside chat with the Premier; a heads' up to the executive that there are issues with some of the performance of Ministers, or whatever the case may be. That needs to be acted immediately.
If, let's say, a Regular Member is having some issues with a Minister, then I would like to know immediately right away so I can deal with it. If it is Executive as a whole, then we need to discuss it as a Caucus and come up with some solution there.
We have dealt with those kinds of situations in the past, where a Minister has been taken out in the past through Caucus, all 19 Members, so there is an avenue there. There is also a code of conduct that we follow, as well, we signed when we got elected as MLA, so we do have procedures that we need to follow. We do have strict guidelines when going to Office of Executive, as well. There are rules and procedures that you have to follow and your performance, as well.
Mr. Chair, I would look to Members because accountability is a huge factor for me, as well. Masi.
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Martselos.
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Frieda Martselos Thebacha
Our whole leadership has been about accountability, and I think that we had a code of conduct that we have to follow. We also have to ensure that we keep a high standard because we are the role model for all of the Northwest Territories, not only the people who are running for Premier or Cabinet or the Members of this House.
I think that conflict of interest is extremely important, and we have to know that there are certain things that we can and cannot do, and we must make decisions that are completely ethical.
Ethical decisions are extremely important, and I think part of that leadership has to be that, if you see something that is not quite right and if you are a leader, you have to call them on it. Sometimes, it could be, you know, you have to be able to call them and tell them that this is not a correct way of behaving, if it is behaviour, or your performance is not up to par and your expectations, and, if you have to share it with Members of Cabinet and all the rest of the MLAs, I think it is up to a leader to do that. That is the way it has to be handled. Thank you.
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Ms. Martselos. Mr. Simpson.
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R.J. Simpson Hay River North
Thank you. We have spoken extensively about this issue this morning, about how the Premier needs to take the role to keep Ministers responsible or to keep Ministers accountable. It is the entire Assembly that is tasked with that, but like I said, when it is everyone's responsibility, it is no one's responsibility.
In terms of the Premier keeping themselves accountable, I think that is where opening up the lines of communication comes into play. I recommend regular meetings with the Regular Members, like fireside chats, regular meetings with the chair of P and P to discuss any sort of issues that are arising. If there are corrections, then they need to be made. I mean, if the Regular Members tell the Premier that he or she needs to do something differently, then you have to do something differently.
You know, this is all about relationships. The Premier is not the Minister of Infrastructure. The Premier is not the Minister of Health. At the centre, the Premier is the Minister of relationships, when it comes right down to it; relationships among Members, between government, and with the public. All that comes down to is communication.
Earlier, I was also advocating, and I think this was yesterday, I was advocating to some of the Members. I said that, you know, you don't fall into the trap that we did in the last Assembly where we had a mid-term review and then you want to wait two years before you deal with accountability issues. You know what Nunavut did. They took their Premier out right at the beginning of Assembly, almost.
In addition to the Premier having to regulate themselves, I am encouraging the Members to take control of the power they have to ensure the accountability of the Premier, as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Next, I will go to Mr. Norn.
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Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh
Thank you, Mr. Chair. During roundtable we heard a pretty loud chorus line, or concert, if you will, about getting our land claims settled. We didn't hear just from any one. We heard it from a lot of different organizations. We have heard from our business community in the North to get our land claims settled. They are not just saying it. They are screaming it. Our economic health in the North as a whole is dependent on this, so my question to our Premier candidates is: what specific commitments can you put in place to ensure that our outstanding land claims are settled during this Assembly? Thank you.
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Mr. Norn. The order for responding to this question will be Ms. Martselos, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Lafferty, and then Ms. Cochrane. Ms. Martselos.
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Frieda Martselos Thebacha
That was one of my priorities in my mandate, because being a former chief and realizing how important the Indigenous community contributes to our government and our Northwest Territories, and without settling land claims, and it is an issue all the time. They said that there were a lot of obstacles that were placed before them by the Government of the Northwest Territories and by Canada. We have to ensure that those land claims are a top priority so that this government can move forward for economic growth.
The land claims will also bring wealth to the Northwest Territories in their regions, and it will give the Indigenous people a chance to be on even par with everybody else in the Northwest Territories and Canada. I firmly believe that the faster that we deal with this file, the faster that the Northwest Territories will be able to move forward in the agenda of economic growth. Thank you.
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Ms. Martselos. Mr. Simpson.
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R.J. Simpson Hay River North
Thank you. This is sort of a difficult question to ask. I am not familiar with the specifics at any of the tables. I can imagine what some of the outstanding issues are, but it is hard to make a specific commitment. What I can commit to is to bring a different attitude to the table. Like I said earlier, we need to become uncomfortable. The government doesn't want to release power. Maybe even to us, it is uncomfortable to have that thought, but we need to get there. We need to bring a different mandate. If we need to meet leader-to-leader and not through the lawyers to get things done, maybe that is what we have to do. I think that nothing is off the table. We are closer with some negotiations than others, but to take a generation to negotiate a deal is unacceptable.
My commitment would be to take nothing off of the table right off the bat and figure out how to get to "yes." The government's response, I find, is often a "no." That's the default response. Take that off the table. That is no longer the default response. Instead of a "no," it's, "Okay, how do we get to that point?" "We understand what you want. How do we get to that point?" as opposed to, "No, we are not going to consider that." Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Mr. Lafferty.
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Jackson Lafferty Monfwi
Masi, Mr. Chair. Clearly, we heard from people yesterday, Aboriginal leadership, Indigenous leadership across the North, have told us to settle the outstanding land claims. All of us were there. We need to start listening to those grassroots people. In my view, they are the experts when it comes to grassroots discussions. We have our own staff who deal with them. I feel that we need to come to the table as elected officials, whether it be, if I become the Premier, sitting down across from the grand chief or the chief to say, "What is the real issue? What is outstanding? Let's put our backpack on the table and deal with it, and give direction to our bureaucrats to fix it, to finalize our claim." In my view, it is supposed to be going that way, but it is not. There are stumbling blocks along the way.
We heard clearly yesterday that some of the groups want some breathing room. They want to deal with their own self-governing negotiations for the time being, and then bring the GNWT to the table. We should respect that, too. As the Member for Hay River alluded to, we need to come clean slate. This is a brand-new government, and what has happened in the past, well, that is in the past. In our language, it is [English translation not provided]. It means "we need to move forward now."
We are going to have a new mandate and a new action plan. We have been talking about land claims for the last 30 or 40 years, especially those Deh Cho and Akaitcho. It is time for us to take on the action and move forward. We have four years to do that, Mr. Chair, and I am a firm believer that we can successfully achieve that if we work in partnership with our Aboriginal partnerships across the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Questions By Members
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Page 30
The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Cochrane.
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Caroline Cochrane Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Land claims are a priority, and self-government is a priority, as well. The land claims will bring prosperity to all governments. It is going to bring pride to Indigenous people, and it is going to bring investor confidence back to the Northwest Territories, which we need.
What I have heard through all of the candidates today, and I really appreciate, is relationship, relationship, relationship. My experience as a Cabinet Member over the past four years with the Indigenous governments was that it was very structured. We would only meet once or twice a year, very structured agendas, no time for free talk. I like to bring it back to myself as a person. If somebody comes to my house and shows up at my door, and says, "I'm here, and I have a reason here. I'm here," I am going to deal with them quite differently than if they come and say, "Let's have a cup of tea and sit down and talk," and then a relationship builds, and you can actually build that trust and talk.
I think it goes beyond just the negotiations. I think it is about building that trust and confidence within Cabinet as a whole with our indigenous governments and how we relate with them, how many meetings we have. Just because agreements say that we will meet twice a year, it is not acceptable that we only do that. We need to go out of our way to build those relationships with our Indigenous governments, and we need to think out of the box.
If we are sending in our departments, and what I am hearing is that they are not working, things are stalled, people aren't building the trust, they are not feeling confident, then, at that time, Ministers and the Premier need to get involved. We need to go sit with them and meet with them, talk to them in frankness, put our concerns on the table, and think outside the box. We are very structured. We are saying, "This is it. These are our offers." Sometimes those offers have to change.
I think that we need to make sure that we are fair to all Indigenous governments. We cannot be giving to one and not giving to all. We have conditions to deal with that, but if we are struck with saying, "This is all we are willing to put on the table," and we have been stuck for so many years, then it is time to bring more to the table. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. I will now call on Ms. Thom.
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Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yesterday we collaborated with Indigenous groups within the Northwest Territories. At this time, we heard from most of the groups the importance of partnership and dialogue. Will the candidates for Premier tell us: what were the top three priorities you heard yesterday? The second question is: how do you go about honouring these priorities?
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Ms. Thom. The order for responding will be Mr. Lafferty, Mr. Simpson, Ms. Martselos, and Ms. Cochrane. Mr. Lafferty.
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Jackson Lafferty Monfwi
Masi. [Translation] Mr. Chair, yesterday when we met with the northern leaders, they discussed a lot of things, a lot of issues, and how well we can work together. That word is trust and relationship-building. How well can we work together? Especially from the smaller communities, a lot of their issues are not addressed. This is what we heard a lot.
As the government here, the MLAs and, also, later, the Premier and Executive who will be in place, we want them to be honest to the people. That is the kind of advice that we have gotten from the northern leaders, to have trust and honesty amongst each other and have respect. Today we don't have that.
Another thing, in the English language, we call it "decentralization." When we look at Yellowknife, it is getting bigger. When we come from smaller communities, we have less things to work with. It seems like we are just getting a little bit of trickle of funding, and that is what the chiefs in the smaller communities have been addressing.
I would like to put that as a priority. If we put the smaller communities first as a priority, everybody will flourish economically. When we look at it, we have a lot of issues, drugs and alcohol problems, housing issues, and that is what we call poverty. If we address these issues, we will solve a lot of problems.
The third item, we have housing issues. There are a lot of concerns, and it seems the administration doesn't really understand our situation in the communities, and they seem to be hiding behind policies. They don't look at the community or travel to the community to have firsthand information and to connect with the community. We need to review the policies and maybe make changes to suit the way our communities' situations are. If one person is having difficulties, we need to help that person. This Member is asking, we have a lot of other questions that are still coming. We're here to address some of these questions, but I think these three items are the most important ones. These are my priorities that I want to put in place. Masi. [End of translation]
Questions By Members
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Simpson.
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R.J. Simpson Hay River North
I believe the question was: what are the top three priorities we heard yesterday at the meeting? I think we are all going to have very similar ones. Relationships was the biggest issue that we talked about, and that goes to the relationship between the government and Indigenous governments in terms of negotiating these land claim settlements. There was a lot of love around the room yesterday. It was a little different than some of the meetings I have been to with Indigenous governments over the past few years, but it was good. Everyone was very positive. Everyone saw a lot of hope with this Assembly, and everyone, every single government there seemed to genuinely want better relationships with the territory. I think what we need to do is keep that going. That is the number one priority that came out of that.
Implementation was the other one that was discussed quite a bit. Once a claim has settled, once a self-government agreement has been settled, then there's the implementation. There are funding issues. There are all sorts of things surrounding that that need to get dealt with. We need to have the conversation about what the GNWT's role is going to be in this territory in the future. From there, we can start designing programs and start pushing programs out to the communities, or have the communities set the programs. We need to be able to design services and programs for communities who are going to be receiving and delivering those. That is based on what the government's role is going to be in the future. We don't know. Once the entire territory is settled and there are self-government agreements that are being implemented, what's the role for the territory? We need to figure that out so we know how to proceed.
The other thing that I found came up almost as much as anything else was education. I wasn't surprised because there has been a groundswell of support across the territory for reforming education, because people see that it is an unfair distribution of education in the territory. Yellowknife and Hay River, we both have excellent results. I spoke with a grad not that long ago, well, a while now, and there were students going to pre-med. There were physicists. We are graduating a lot of high-quality students in the regional centres and in Yellowknife, but students in the communities aren't getting those same opportunities. That's just not fair. There is nothing more basic than education, I would say.
We have had diamond mines for decades in the territory. Yellowknife has done well. If we get more diamond mines, Yellowknife will continue to do well, but how does the rest of the territory benefit from that? Then, I think it's education, and I think people see that that's the way to go. We need to reconsider how we deliver education in this territory. I know there are some initiatives that are happening, but I truly believe that the one thing that is similar to very affluent and successful societies is education, and we need to make that a focus of not just this Assembly, but of the next 20, 30, 40, 50 years.
I always think: why don't people around the world look to the territory and say, "We want to be like that." We talked about education in Norway. We talk about all of these things. We can be that. People can say, "Look what they've done. They've had graduation rates of 60 percent, 40 percent in these communities, and they've turned that right around. Now, they are the most well-educated territory in Canada, or one in the world."
Sorry, I went off on a little tangent on there. I'm just passionate about education. The people we spoke with yesterday were also passionate about education. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
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The Chairperson (Mr. Rutland)
Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Ms. Martselos.