Excuse me, Mr. Koe, the honourable Member from Hay River is not here. Perhaps you could have another seconder? Ms. Cournoyea offers to second it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that when the House adjourns on Thursday, December 10, 1992, it shall be adjourned until February 17, 1993;

AND FURTHER, that any time prior to February 17, 1993 if the Speaker is satisfied, after consultation with the Executive Council and Members of the Assembly, that the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during the adjournment, the Speaker may give notice and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has been duly adjourned to that time.

Thank you, Mr. Koe, your motion is in order. To the motion, Mr. Koe.

Question.

Question has been called. The seconder has an opportunity. Ms. Cournoyea.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

I will go to the other motion on the order paper, Motion 9-12(3), Campaign of the International Fund for Animal Welfare. Mr. Patterson.

Your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this motion was inspired by our outrage over the blitz of advertising the last week of November from animal rights fanatics. These fanatics are obsessed with protecting the beautiful, trusting harp seals, as they describe them. Mr. Speaker, they have no sensitivity to the devastating effects their campaigns have and

are having on the Inuit seal hunters of the Northwest Territories and Canada, and the fur industry in general.

Those of us who live here have seen annual revenues for the Northwest Territories fur industry plummet from over $6 million in the 1978-79 financial year to about $2 million last year. With this decline in the price and then the very market for furs and particularly seal skins, we have observed in our communities a corresponding increase in dependence on welfare and a corresponding increase in other undesirable effects, such as alcoholism, drug abuse, family violence and even suicide. These zealots have attacked a key element of the very identity of our constituents.

The vicious advocates of animal rights and animal welfare are unaware of, or uncaring of the consequences of their misinformed campaigns on our human constituents. It is the animal rights advocates who are inhumane, not the hunters.

---Applause

It is the hunters who are the threatened species, not the seals. Mr. Speaker, those of us who travel the waters of the Arctic, and there are many in this Legislature, know full well that harp seals are more abundant and far-reaching than ever before. For these fanatics to pretend that the harp seal population is not out of control, is absurd. For them to oppose responsible attempts to manage the herd is irresponsible.

Mr. Speaker, the International Fund for Animal Welfare advertisements suggest that harp seals do not eat cod and they site federal fishery studies. I have learned that the scientific basis for this assertion is very questionable. These studies were based on a limited study of seals in shallow inshore areas only. It is bad enough that these animal rights advocates blindly pursue their misbegotten cause. It is outrageous that they buttress their case with questionable science.

Mr. Speaker, much good work has been done by Members of this Assembly, previous Members, both Ministers and ordinary Members, by civil servants such as Jim Bourque, and by dedicated northern residents such as Cindy Gilday, to fight this vicious campaign in Europe. Indigenous Survival International, whose formation was spearheaded by people from the Northwest Territories, and I know Mr. Kakfwi was instrumental when he was president of Dene Nation in providing support to this organization, has been a key vehicle in this struggle since its establishment in 1984. Our government has provided annual support to I.S.I., and it has supported other initiatives of I.S.I., such as the "living Arctic" display in the British Museum in London, and it has made progress.

Initially, I.S.I. was well supported by the Government of Canada through a five-year program initiated in 1987 by D.I.A.N.D., called the Fur Industry Defence Program. Funding was in the order of $1 million per year. Now, Mr. Speaker, just as we are facing a new onslaught of high-priced, slick and vicious propaganda here in Canada and in Europe, we learn to our horror that funding for the Fur Industry Defence Program ended last March and core funding to I.S.I., both these sources from the Government of Canada, is to be cut in March, 1993.

It is critical that this funding be restored. Canada is the third largest producer of wild fur in the world. Ninety-five per cent of all Canadian wild fur is exported and about 75 per cent ends up in the European community, either directly or indirectly. As we speak, animal rights groups are actively lobbying to have 13 wild fur species in the European community trap regulations, all of which our people in the Northwest Territories depend on for their living as trappers, included in C.I.T.E.S. Regulations as endangered species, even though we know these species are not endangered in Canada. Right now, animal rights activists are lobbying for marine mammal legislation to prevent the harvest of marine mammals on which the Inuit depend.

If funding is restored to the Fur Industry Defence Program, support can continue to be given to the European Bureau for Conservation and Development. This is the only non-profit organization which is a lobby for sustainable development at the European Parliament. This is the only non-profit organization which advocates the harvesting of renewable resources. Mr. Speaker, it is critical that this funding be restored. I urge all honourable Members to support this motion and I will call for a recorded vote, confident in the knowledge that there will be strong support from this Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Seconder to the motion, Mr. Zoe.

To the motion. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to say a few words on this motion. I find it quite ironic and shocking to see the full-page advertisement trying to protect that particular picture. I do not believe that 99 per cent have not seen that kind of seal in that fur coat. They are under the snow in the den during that time. Very few hunters run across a den that has been dug up by a fox. Then we would look in there. We would find a dead one caught by a fox from time to time. They are very, very hard to find because they are usually in the bank created by icebergs or multi-year ice. The seal is hunted when it has grown and shed its yellow hair which is quite useless and has nice, very short, black hair that is more useful. My point is this, Mr. Speaker, this advertisement is misdirected, is a false campaign and also misinformation that has no respect whatsoever for any human being or intelligence of human beings around the world.

My experience in the eastern Arctic, is that these harp seals come in July when the ice is rotting, and they come in hordes. When they come in hordes they start eating up all kinds of Arctic cod that is a stable food of the ring seals all year round. The Inuit depend on the ring seal all year round, not on the harp seal. When the harp seals come, just like spawning char or salmon, they start eating up all kinds of cod around there and in a couple of days we can hardly even see a ring seal any more because they are being chased around by these harp seals.

If we are going to concentrate on cruelty to animals by using or harvesting these animals, then can we not at least consider a sports fisherman who catches a fish with a lure, plays with it for 15 or 20 minutes and just lets it go again? Who speaks for the fish? Who speaks for the Arctic cod? Who speaks for the ring seal? I think we will have to start campaigning on the basis of what is a reality, what is the truth, which animals we have up here, and which ones are invading our seas. Maybe that is when they will recognize that there is no shortage of seals whatsoever. I will support this motion. Thank you very much.

To the motion, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, will support this motion. For a number of years now I have been working on this issue and have been very concerned about the continuing impact of the anti-harvest lobby in the lives of our people: The Inuit, Dene and non-aboriginal people who rely on harvesting natural resources to sustain them. As the Minister of Renewable Resources, I have been directly involved in counteracting these lobbies, or at least I have tried.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say I am a hunter. I grew up in a hunting camp. I was born in a sod house. My father was relying on hunting to sustain himself and his family and the dogs. The dogs carried us over thousands of miles a year to pursue our traditional harvesting. Harvesting natural resources, mostly seals and foxes, was very viable and very important to my people.

Mr. Speaker, when the market crashed back in the early 80s, I saw the devastation of my people. Once proud hunters, they became useless in their communities. They had no means to go out and the government did not have enough money to support them. Then we started seeing our people committing suicide, young people committing suicide because their fathers were not teaching them how to go out and how to be proud people. Mr. Speaker, we saw this happen in the early 1980s in Baffin, Keewatin and Kitikmeot. Mr. Speaker, I used to be angry at these people. It is beyond that point now, Mr. Speaker, it hurts me to see humans not understanding that what they are doing is impacting other people. They are killing people. They are murderers of my people. Mr. Speaker, one of my approaches has been to teach other people of our northern lifestyle and the continuing importance of harvesting wildlife to our people.

The most effective voice to promote the northern lifestyle has been hunters and trappers themselves, going to these groups and talking to groups to try to make other people understand.

I was shocked to hear, yesterday, that it is a belief of European people that all wildlife is endangered. They believe that. There are millions of people in Europe who believe that because they have been told that. They believe that caribou in the Northwest Territories are endangered. They believe that polar bears are endangered. They believe that rabbits, wild rabbits, wild foxes, and wild lynx are endangered. They actually believe that these species are endangered and that they should not be harvested.

Mr. Speaker, it is the only way that a lot of my constituents can make a living. It is the only way that they can be proud to have children and to teach them the land skills. If it was not for my people's ability to survive out in one of the harshest climates, I would not be here today. My people are very innovative and very adaptable.

I think we also have a responsibility to ensure that our harvesting techniques are humane. We have been trying to do that. As a department we have been supporting and encouraging trappers to change their ways. This has been difficult. I could understand very well when the trapper complains that the new traps are too big and they are too cumbersome and they are dangerous to use, but it is the way that we are showing the world that we are responsible and that our trappers are very responsible. Most of the trappers who have been trained to use new methods are saying that these are good methods, because they are adaptable.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I feel that our federal government Fur Industry Defensive Program was a very viable program and I am glad to hear that the mover of this motion is encouraging and asking the federal government to continue with that program. It was very viable and working as well. We need the support of our friends in Europe and I think, as politicians, we should try to get over there as we were asked to do.

To the motion, Mr. Antoine.

I am saddened that the people of the north must continue to fight to protect our traditional way of life. Mr. Speaker, the aboriginal people find it hard to understand why we are being attacked. We are responsible harvesters of wildlife. We live in balance with the land and with all life. We would not take more than we need. We do not destroy wildlife habitats. To destroy the land and the gifts that it holds, would be to destroy ourselves and our way of life. The forest, lakes, rivers and wildlife are in danger in Canada, Mr. Speaker, but not from the trappers. (Translation ends)

We do not pen up animals to keep them captive their entire lives, for easy slaughter. We do not agree with this way of life. We do not force our morality on other people. We do not try to change others, whose way of life incorporates their own beliefs. You do not see in the northern communities the build-up of consumer goods that is found in many parts of the world. We do need to develop the northern economy and improve our standard of living, but to us the environment is not an obstacle to be overcome in this struggle; it sustains us. Our relationship with the land and the environment is the centre of our spiritual life, our culture and our traditions. Our relationship with the land and wildlife is also our means of physical survival.

The standard of living in the northern communities is very poor, but if we are unable to sustain ourselves from the land, we simply could not survive. The trap line is the lifeline. There are no other choices, and I will tell you, we are not leaving our land. Part of what I am trying to say is that if the groups really try to understand our way of life and our respect for the land, we might be able to move on from this issue. Mr. Speaker, I want to give you one example of the level of understanding that exists within the anti-fur movement. I will read a comment that a Mr. Stephen Beth made in 1987. At the time, he was the vice-chairman of the International Wildlife Coalition. He was also the former Canadian coordinator of the International Fund for Animal Welfare and was involved in the European community ban on the importation of harp seal products.

Mr. Beth had this to say about native culture and our way of life, and I quote, "the native people have got to become self-sufficient, but they have got to have their own culture that is living. I own the native culture", he said. "I bought it with my taxes and I own about two-thirds of it." Mr. Speaker, this attitude is disgusting. This is the attitude we are fighting, and there are many people who support this man and his beliefs. This will be a long battle. I do not know how much is at stake for the animal welfare organizations, but for us, this is the essence of our spiritual being, our economy and our life on our land. We must defend ourselves, Mr. Speaker, therefore, I support this motion. Mahsi.

---Applause

To the motion, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will be very brief here. Trapping and hunting, Mr. Speaker, is a healthy way of life. Trapping and hunting are environmentally friendly. They are natural ways of ensuring the animals on this earth are healthy, in terms of numbers and physical well-being. Mr. Speaker, I wonder how the animal rights activists acquired the expensive sea-going vessels. I wonder how animal rights activists can afford to live their extravagant lifestyles, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, our livelihood is not for sale. It is for keeps, the way it was meant to be by the Creator. Thank you.

---Applause

To the motion. Question is being called. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I also want to support the motion. Mr. Speaker, I support the way of life of the aboriginal people and the campaign we have against people that are campaigning against the cruelty of animals. We must not forget about the way we handle animals, too, and the government should always leave the animals where they are. They are born out there. We do not need to have collars put on them. That causes misery to animals, too. I just wanted to bring that to the Members' attention. If we are going to preach, then this government should also remember that putting collars on animals is cruel. It does cause hardship. Thank you.

To the motion. Question is being called. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be very brief with my comments because I recognize that the time is very short. Mr. Speaker, I want to indicate my full support for this motion, and I commend the Member for Iqaluit for developing it and bringing it forth to the House. I find it is critical for us to be able to ensure that we do express some discontentment with regard to the campaign and tactics that the International Fund for Animal Welfare and other animal welfare organizations are having on northern people, on the way that they are campaigning on our livelihood. I also feel that the media and the whole movement of these animal welfare groups, forget to go look into malls that have aquariums with fish swimming around in it or small animals caged.

They do not think of the zoos down south and how animals are caged in. They do not think of the type of affects that that has on those animals, and it irritates me that they are so quick and ready to campaign around fur shops. I find that the affect on the north has been devastating, particularly in the eastern Arctic, with which I really sympathize with regard to the seal industry, so I want to indicate to this House my full support for this much-needed motion. Thank you.

---Applause