Mr. Chairman, the amendments before us do not deal with the concern which the Member is raising. There were comments to the same effect in the Standing Committee on Legislation. What we can do is assure the Member that we will review and try to find ways in which there could be greater contact made with community leaders and community organizations that would inform mayors, chiefs and those officials who are aware that there is an office of the public trustee and perhaps in simple language can explain what the available services are, in order to give the office a higher profile. Thank you.
Debates of Dec. 10th, 1992
Topics
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Bill 4. Mr. Zoe.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
Henry Zoe North Slave
Mr. Chairman. I have two questions. Mr. Pontus gave some figures to my colleague for Thebacha with regard to income. What income is generated through your office, currently through the fees charged for the administration of estates and trusts and for the administration of the common fund? Can I get those two figures?
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister. Mr. Pontus.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
Pontus
The administration fees per year that are charged to the estates and trusts vary depending upon the size of the estates that we close during that particular year. They did average approximately $50,000 to $65,000, and they have been down to $40,000. It could be anywhere from $40,000 to $60,000 in any particular year. That is a rough estimate but that is the amount of income we are looking at from the actual fees charged to the estates and trusts.
The common fund fees work out to exactly one per cent of the common fund which is calculated twice a year. That currently would be $35,000 per year.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Zoe.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
Henry Zoe North Slave
Mr. Chairman, with the amendment which is being proposed, does the public trustee's office expect to get more money? Do you expect to get more money by making these amendments?
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Pontus.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
Pontus
We might make slightly more money than we are currently making. In other words, if we are averaging $50,000 it may go up to $55,000 or $60,000. With a complete regulated fee structure we would probably ensure that we are charging for everything, so we are catching all the nickels and dimes for the services that we are providing. Also, there would be a couple of areas in which we do not have any authority to charge fees now, such as for services and functions I provide under the Minors Act in review of infant settlements. We cannot charge fees for that now but we could in the future. We could also charge for trusts that are established for persons subsequent to their being committed under the Mental Health Act. There are a couple of areas in which we do not charge any fees now, which are not great volume areas but in which there would be a small amount of revenue.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Zoe.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Pontus.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
Pontus
I have obtained the regulations and fee structures from a number of other jurisdictions. I have on occasion discussed their fee structures with them to determine the best way of setting ours. It varies from a fee structure in B.C., which is several pages long and itemizes many things, to a fee structuring in Alberta which I believe is only one page long. We have done the preliminary research, to get an idea of the range of fees and the way that we can structure the regulations. However, at this particular time we do not have draft regulations, however.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Zoe.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 442
Henry Zoe North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I notice that the standing committee has put in the coming into force clause so that it gives you time to formulate a fee schedule and to have it registered. How long do you anticipate it will to take you to get the fee schedule registered? Thank you.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 443
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 443
Pontus
I would estimate that we would be able to have that done within two to three months.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 443
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Zoe.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 443
Henry Zoe North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just need a clarification. In the amendment which is being proposed, the public trustee or a person designated by the public trustee may waive the prescribed fee. To whom is this making reference? I do not have the current Public Trustee Act. I would like to know to whom they are making reference, the Minister or the director of the public trustee's office? I would like that clarification.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 443
The Chair John Ningark
Mahsi. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 443
Pontus
Currently in our office, there is a total of five staff and the designate in this situation would either be myself making this decision to waive or the public trustee officer who reports to me in the office. On occasion, it may also be the deputy public trustee who has been in the legal division of the government and who has been appointed in my absence to act as public trustee in the past.
Clause By Clause
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 443
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Bill 4, Clause 3. Agreed?
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 443
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 443
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Clause 4. Agreed?
Committee Motion 67-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation No. 2
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 443
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed