Thank you. Forest fire management, not previously authorized $770,000. Agreed?
Debates of Dec. 7th, 1992
Topics
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized $833,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Department Of Health
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. Health, operations and maintenance. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, can we return to Personnel?
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
I believe that the committee agreed that we would deal with the motions at the end. We will continue and return after we have concluded. There are two motions that are coming forward. Mr. Antoine and Mr. Gargan are proposing to deal with motions dealing with two different sections. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the committee if we could return to Personnel to deal with that motion.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Does the committee agree that we return to Personnel?
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. Mr. Gargan.
Department Of Personnel
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the details of the Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1992-93, for the program Personnel, under the activity employee benefits, in the amount of $193,000, be deleted.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. I have received the amendment. The amendment is now being circulated. The motion is in order. For the record, the motion reads, "I move that the detail of the Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1992-93, for the program Personnel, under the activity employee benefits, in the amount of $193,000, be deleted". To the motion. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, the government has already responded to that. It is to cover the G.S.T. costs of employees' vacation travel assistance. The government has already said that it covers the tax for travel on those, too. They have already set a precedent. It is because of that they had to cover the G.S.T. too. The employees could take them to court. If they do, it is based on the precedent, not on whether or not they have the right to cover those for the employees. Everyone in the country pays G.S.T. For the less fortunate people, it is good to get G.S.T. money back. However, we are not talking about less fortunate people here. We are talking about people who have good jobs. The G.S.T. covered is on benefits. It is not part of their salary. It is over and above what they get. I do not think that ordinary people who do not work for the government are given that kind of privilege. I do not think we should be paying it. If the teachers' association is not happy with that, by all means, take the government to court. The possibility is that it will lose both cases, both the tax law and the G.S.T. I do not wish to see it as an expenditure, when we really do not know whether or not we should allow that kind of cover when everybody else has to be tightening the belt and paying.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 321
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. To the motion, Mr. Ningark.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 322
John Ningark Natilikmiot
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if this amount of $193,000 was not negotiated through the N.W.T. Teachers' Association, I would be supporting the motion. One of the reasons being is the reason he has stated, that the poor people are paying the G.S.T., and the students of those teachers that are not paying this G.S.T. do pay when they go out on holidays with their parents during the Christmas season. I will be supporting the motion. Thank you.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 322
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
To the Motion. Mr. Antoine.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 322
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My understanding of this particular employee benefit for $193,000, if the Minister could correct me here, is that the members of the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association and some senior management employees are taking their vacation travel assistance in cash and want to travel south and they are charged G.S.T. If these people know they are going to travel south, why can they not use travel warrants under the government? That way they do not have to pay the G.S.T. Rather than taking the cash and getting charged, why can they not use travel warrants and not get charged? That would take care of this particular problem.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 322
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. To the motion, Mr. Kakfwi.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 322
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, I think the short of it is that it can go to arbitration and we will come back with a supp later. This is all subject to negotiations and I think this is part of the benefits that are part of the negotiations. If we had previously included this as part of the benefits, then it makes it impossible to say it is not all included. It is part of the negotiations that led up to the collective agreements in the past. I think that is an important point to make and Mr. Antoine says we should go back to administering it ourselves. We are trying to get out of it so we do not have to do all the paper work, trying to cut the administrative costs. That is why we are trying to get out of it. Also, we thought it was a good benefit because the benefit is not flowing and I think we have to get rid of the impression that these are all southern hires. These are mostly our own people we are talking about. We are trying to give them the benefit of travelling up here and some flexibility in the use of this benefit. So I wanted to add this.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 322
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Mr. Kakfwi, the microphone.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 322
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
I am sorry. The reason it was not included in the first place was just to see if technically there was some point to be made. So we did not include it while we referred the matter to Justice to get an opinion whether legally, technically, by the wording in the collective agreement, we are bound to cover the cost of G.S.T. The opinion is that we are bound to cover G.S.T. because we have done it previously, using the words that we are trying to dance around with in the collective agreement. So that is why it is inserted now. If we had an opinion earlier, then it would have been included. It would not have been coming here as a supp.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 322
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. To the motion. Mr. Ningark.
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 322
John Ningark Natilikmiot
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as I stated in my initial remarks to this motion, if it is not done through the N.W.T. Teachers' Association negotiations, then I would support the motion. If it is being negotiated then I will not be comfortable in supporting that. Did I hear right? It is done through the negotiation? This $193,000?
Committee Motion 46-12(3): To Delete $193,000 Under Activity Employee Benefits, Personnel
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 322
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. Mr. Minister.