Good afternoon. Orders of the day for Thursday, March 26, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Honourable Government Leader, Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to advise Members of the pending changes to the regulatory regime in which the Northwest Territories Power Corporation operates. Since purchase of the corporation from the federal government in May 1988, regulation of the corporation has been a combined responsibility. The Government of the Northwest Territories has had authority in the areas of budget approval and rate setting, while the Public Utilities Board has been responsible for revenue requirements and terms and conditions of service.

It was the previous government's intention, and I would affirm the intention of this government, to establish the Northwest Territories Power Corporation as a going concern responsive to northern needs and to offer the corporation for private sector participation.

Consistent with that objective, the Northwest Territories Power Corporation Act was amended during the eighth session of the 11th Assembly. This amendment gave the Public Utilities Board, the PUB, the authority to set the rates of the corporation. This regulatory regime is consistent with that of Centra Power and Northland Utilities and will come into effect April 1, 1992.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories maintains authority over the corporation, as owner, and may issue directives to the corporation as required. The corporation remains accountable to this Assembly through myself, as Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. ,

The Public Utilities Board was established to protect the public interest in the supply of energy throughout the Northwest Territories by public utilities and to remove the opportunity for political influence. As of April 1, the Northwest Territories Power Corporation will be subject to the same review, accountability and regulation as any public utility operating in the Northwest Territories.

Since 1988, the corporation has prepared for transfer to an independent regulatory environment. In December 1989, the corporation made a submission to the Public Utilities Board with respect to revenue requirements and terms and conditions of service. In 1990, at -the request of the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Public Utilities Board conducted an electrical rate structure review of all utilities, including the NWT Power Corporation. Finally, in

April 1991, the corporation submitted a cost of service methodology to the Public Utilities Board. Each submission to the Public Utilities Board included a thorough public consultation process and resulted in clear directives from the PUB to the corporation.

During the next several months, the corporation will participate in public hearings into its current revenue requirement submission. The corporation then intends to file a cost of service study, incorporating the PUB's December 1991 recommendations, and to file a rate zone proposal.

I am confident that these regulatory changes, coupled with operational experience, will result in further improvements in the delivery of electrical service and profitability by the corporation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ministers' statements. Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, as Members know, I have returned from a trip to Ottawa. If Members would like, I could make a report today or tomorrow. There was not ample time for translation...

Excuse me, Ms. Cournoyea. There is no statement filed.

Mr. Speaker, as I began, I said the statement was not filed because I have just returned from Ottawa, and I would like to offer to the Legislative Assembly, today, a statement as an emergency statement. although it can wait until tomorrow. Thank you.

The Minister has just indicated it is an emergency statement. Proceed, please.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Members.

I would like to take the opportunity today to inform Members of the Legislative Assembly of the discussions at the recent First Ministers' Conference on the Economy.

To begin with, it is important to note that the Government of the Northwest Territories was a full and equal participant. Officials were part of each and every working group. I believe this is a sign of the growing acceptance and recognition of the North's place in Canadian confederation.

Hear, hear!

Because the meetings covered many of the different issues and areas, I will not try to summarize them. Rather, I would like to focus on the North's interests and concerns and thereby illustrate why we must continue to be at each of these meetings.

The discussions focused on eight topic areas including social programs, training, investment in infrastructure, interprovincial trade, international trade, fisheries, agriculture and crossborder shopping.

Social Programs

The discussion on social programs focused primarily on health care and the need to find more cost-effective ways of delivering this vital service. Ideas which were debated included increased efforts to promote health and prevent illness and disabilities; reduced reliance on hospital and medical doctors in favour of more flexible community-based care; development of national health goals and objectives; and increased public input and awareness of health issues.

What is of particular importance is how far ahead this territory and Assembly are in these areas. We have already initiated public awareness programs focused at preventing the need for high-cost treatment. Consultations are already under way with regional health boards as to the best model of health care delivery. Finally, a special committee on health and social services has been established by this Assembly.

Training

The second issue area included not only training in the narrow institutional sense but brought in all facets of education, social insurance, unemployment insurance and on-the-job training. The consensus which emerged was that there must be greater flexibility and willingness by the federal government within a broad national framework to allow for a redesign of current programs to address regional human resource development needs.

A new round of consultation between federal officials and representatives of provinces, territories and the private sector will soon be initiated. The Government of the Northwest Territories intends to participate actively in these discussions so that the changes to the current system will allow us to use social assistance and training funds more effectively to help train people and assist them in seeking out jobs rather than pay for them to stay at home.

Investment In Infrastructure

The third issue area, investment in infrastructure, received a great deal of debate. All First Ministers saw it as a means of creating jobs in the short term while investing in long-term economic opportunities. Roads, wharves and other forms of infrastructure will be a key component in unlocking the Northwest Territories' huge resource and tourist potential. A new federal cost-sharing highways program would allow us to upgrade and build vital infrastructure which we could otherwise not afford. At the same time, it would free up funds to spend on other infrastructure initiatives such as airports or resource-based facilities. This initiative has been fast-tracked, and I hope to be able to report back to MLAs very soon.

Interprovincial Trade

On the fourth subject, interprovincial trade, I am able to announce immediate implications for the Northwest Territories. First Ministers agreed to move aggressively to reduce all forms of internal trade barriers such as subsidies, contracting

restrictions, procurement rules, and restrictions to labour mobility. However, as part of this initiative, we were able to achieve a special exemption for the Northwest Territories in light of its high level of unemployment and cost of doing business. In conjunction with the business incentive policy and other initiatives designed to maximize northern benefits from our capital spending, this should help northern businesses in these tough economic times.

The areas which were of lesser interest to the Northwest Territories international trade, agriculture and cross-border shopping received little discussion. But the final one, fisheries, did provide us with an important opportunity to press our point. We were successful in ascertaining our role in all facets of the Atlantic fishery and the management of those fish stocks off Baffin Island. This included clear and unequivocal recognition of all provisions of aboriginal land claims agreements which provide for the participation of aboriginal people in this important economic resource.

Mr. Speaker, this has only been a short summary of a day and a half of very intense discussions, and I have tried to outline only the key issues to the Northwest Territories. Of equal importance was the tone and conduct of the meetings themselves. All First Ministers recognize the grave economic situation facing the country and the need to work cooperatively in dealing with these problems. As we face the tough choices brought on by difficult financial times, I believe we in this House will have to do the same. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is with great pleasure that I rise today to inform this House of the formation of Kiguti Dental Services. Kiguti Dental Services is a joint venture between the Tapiriit Development Corporation of the Keewatin and the Adam Dental Clinic out of Yellowknife and lqaluit.

Mr. Speaker, one of the most exciting aspects of this development is its marriage of dental care expertise, as provided by the staff of the Adam Dental Clinic, and strong Inuit participation as provided by the Tapiriit Development Corporation.

--- Applause

Mr. Speaker, up to now dental services have been provided from the South and, to put it bluntly, teeth in the Keewatin are in bad shape. With the formation of Kiguti Dental Services, Inuit will no longer. be merely patients; they will play an integral role in the decision-making process.

Kiguti Dental Services will begin operating at the end of this month with a staff of nine residing in Rankin Inlet. This means dental services will now be provided by residents rather than outsiders. It also means tax revenues will belong to the Northwest Territories, rather than Manitoba, and that additional jobs will be created in Rankin Inlet as local businesses provide logistic services.

I should also point out that the switch to these dental services from those provided out of Manitoba will not add any additional costs to the health care system in the Northwest Territories. In fact, Mr. Speaker, Kiguti will operate as a non-profit organization and any surplus revenues will be used to improve the state of dental health care in the Keewatin.

I think this development shows that the people of Keewatin have once again taken the initiative to make changes which will better their socio-economic circumstances.

Before closing, Mr. Speaker, I would be remiss if I did not reiterate a point I made in my Member's statement on Tuesday -- that this government has gone on long enough about downsizing, postponing projects and reducing the size of government. It is time to move on; build consumer and investor confidence to ensure the long-term health of the economy of the Northwest Territories. As you can see, Mr. Speaker, the people of the Keewatin understand this and have done exactly that. Thank you.

--- Applause

Members' statements. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to Question O313-12(2), asked by Mr. Ludy Pudluk on March 12, 1992. A Peary caribou recovery plan is being developed by a team of caribou researchers from across Canada. The chairman is a biologist from the Department of Renewable Resources. She wrote a letter last year to hunters and trappers associations' presidents informing them that the Peary caribou recovery team was established and that communities would be involved in making management decisions. Meetings or workshops will be held with communities in the High Arctic when a draft recovery plan is developed.

Residents of Resolute and Grise Fiord are concerned about the low numbers of Peary caribou and have voluntarily reduced the harvest. The Department of Renewable Resources had been providing funds to assist residents to travel to other hunting areas. Until Peary caribou increase in numbers, the department will continue, as much as possible, to assist residents to obtain caribou from other areas. Thank you.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Returns to oral questions. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health. Mr. Speaker, in reviewing unedited Hansard of yesterday, when we discussed the issue of abortions with the Minister of Health, the Minister replied, 'I stand behind the process that we have.' I would like to ask the Minister if he can explain to this House what is the process that they have,

Mr. Whitford.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, if you could clarify the process you are referring to.

Mr. Speaker, my question was formulated from page 1623 of unedited Hansard. It was asked by one of my colleagues, Mr. Nerysoo, in respect to how he was going to address the matter with department officials in regard to medical procedures regarding abortions with the hospital.

Mr. Speaker, maybe for further clarification, if I may be allowed to preamble prior to my question, the fact is that he did indicate that there is a proper process that he stands behind. What is the process? Is it a medically standard procedure?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, that does not answer my question, but I will pursue the issue at hand. Yesterday the Minister indicated, and I checked unedited Hansard, that he was going to look into this matter through a public review. Later on in question period, at the point that I did ask him about the public review, he did indicate that he did not state it was a public review, and when I asked him to check Hansard he said he would check Hansard and correct his statement. I have not heard any correction to the statement that he made. Could the Minister now clarify what type of review will be conducted into this matter? and will it be a public review as he stated publicly?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Taking into consideration that the Minister will be doing a review in respect to this matter, can the Minister inform this House when he expects that this review will be completed and a report received by his office?

Mr. Whitford.

New question, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

If I may ask a new question to the same Minister. I was somewhat astounded, as I kept reading through the unedited Hansard of yesterday, that when I asked the Minister yesterday if the issue of the medical procedures used in abortions have ever been brought to his attention or his department officials' attention, he indicated it was never brought to his attention. I would like to quote Hansard, in one particular area, where he has many time discussed issues with the executive director of the Status of Women Council to the degree where he states, and I quote: "I meet the executive director quite frequently in different social functions, and this has never been addressed to me." Does the Minister expect that the issue of abortions and medical procedures should be addressed to him at social functions?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Has the Minister been able to ascertain whether or not his department officials were aware of the medical procedures used in respect to abortions and brought to the department's attention?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I recognize that the Minister may want to bring the issue into committee of the whole for discussion, but I am asking the Minister a question. Have department officials been aware of the issue prior to it becoming a public issue? The Minister indicated, yesterday, that he would determine and ascertain from his department whether or not it was brought to their attention. I would like to know whether it was brought to the department's attention. He did not answer my previous question.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. I apologize to Members. That was a new question by Mrs. Marie-Jewell. I should have gone to Mr. Todd for a new question. Mr. Todd.

It is not my intent to prolong the debate on this abortion issue; however, I do have a bureaucratic concern with respect to it. I have some concerns that officials at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital and/or the Department of Health may have been with holding information from the Minister. At 11:15 o'clock this morning, I spoke to Lynn Brooks of the Status of Women Council. Ms. Brooks confirms that she raised this issue in detail during a lengthy conversation with Dr. Richard Nuttal, who is the regional medical health officer in the Department of Health. She also indicated that she had discussed women's complaints about the abortion procedures with Dr. Donald Hadley at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, as well as with Dr. Jack Bromley of the NWT Medical Association. This is what the lady told me at 11:15 o'clock this morning. These medical professionals were aware of this problem. Did they bother to convey this knowledge to the Minister?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Todd.

Recognizing that subsection 5(e) of the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act gives the Minister the authority to ensure that adequate standards are maintained in hospitals, is it the Minister's position that these officials should have advised him directly that standards pertaining to surgical procedures used for abortion had been drawn into question by complaints from the Status of Women Council? Should they?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Todd.

I never got an answer to my question. I asked if it is the Minister's position that his officials, who were advised of the problem by the executive director of the Status of Women Council, should have advised him directly. Are his officials with holding information from him?

Mr. Whitford, Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, if a hypothetical question is being placed, is it the Speaker who determines whether the question is in order or out of order?

Point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, whenever a point of order is to be raised in this House, I believe it is the Member's obligation to indicate that it is going to be a point of order, not to be rudely interrupted into the process without advising this House.

Point of order, Mr. Nerysoo.

Point Of Order

No, Mr. Speaker. On a point of order, I did not hear you rule out the particular question as being hypothetical.

I made no ruling on the question; that is correct. I want to remind all Members that a Minister, in response to an oral question, has the right to take a question as notice. I thought, in this particular case, that this particular question was, in fact, in order. Mr. Whitford.

Excuse me, Mr. Whitford. You cannot question the Speaker. Mr. Whitford.

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Health. Is the Minister aware, or was he made aware by his officials or the director of the Inuvik Regional Hospital, that there was a period of time

in which there was no resident doctor in the Inuvik Regional Hospital or in the community?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could I ask the Minister of Health who authorized that the doctor should be absent from the Inuvik Regional Hospital?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know if it is policy of this government to allow a regional hospital to have all their doctors absent from a particular community.

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Speaker, earlier I asked the question, is the Minister aware that all the doctors were absent, not necessarily the general surgeon, but all the doctors were absent from the hospital. I wanted to know if he was knowledgeable of that.

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to pose a question to the Minister of Health. In reviewing the unedited Hansard, Mr. Speaker, the Minister in his point of privilege yesterday, when he announced his point of privilege, tried to explain to the House what he said to the reporters. I would like to quote: "What I was trying to say to the reporter

was that I have been advised that patients have a choice on whether or not they wish to have pain relief during an abortion procedure." My question to the Minister is, have there been any patients who did not want to have pain relief administered during this procedure?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, the issue at hand is the fact that the public does not feel that the medical procedures used during abortion -- there is a concern in the Territories by women that the procedures used for abortions are not medical procedures. Apparently it has been indicated that the same type of practice is not necessarily used in any other part of the country. If the Minister could think of the pain that could be endured during such a procedure without a pain relief measure taken. I would like to ask the Minister, does he believe that there have been no patients who did not want to have pain relief during this procedure, and that it should not be administered?

- Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mr. Todd.

The Minister has given me no choice but to ask this question. Yesterday, the Minister indicated that he had no knowledge, there were no complaints about the abortion procedures used at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital. But there were some Health officials who were aware of these complaints. On September 29, 1991, a former patient who had been treated at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, following a failed pregnancy, wrote to the hospital administration. Has the Minister of Health now been informed of this letter dated March 25, 1992?

Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Todd.

Can the Minister inform the House whether he was advised of this complaint by the hospital administration or by the patient herself?

Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Todd.

Can the Minister inform the House whether he was advised of this complaint by the hospital administration or only by the woman herself? Did the hospital administration advise you of this lady's complaint, or did she advise you directly?

If I could ask for some clarification of the complaint, Mr. Todd. If you are talking about a complaint made in September, the Minister was not responsible for the portfolio at that time. So that question would not be an appropriate question to ask. Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, has the Minister of Health now been informed of this complaint by a letter dated March 25, 1992? The answer was yes, I thought. I asked the Minister if he was informed of it by the hospital administration or by the lady herself.

Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question to the Minister of Health. It is with regard to the doctors in Inuvik. Is the Minister aware at any time, or told by his officials, that there were no doctors available at the hospital within the last month or so?

Mr. Whitford.

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health. In respect to the issue of the medical procedures used for abortions, the point we are raising is the fact that women are enduring pain during such a medical procedure. An anesthesia is not given to the women. The Minister basically indicated, through unedited

Hansard as of yesterday, that if they want it they can ask for it or there are types of pain relief given. Does the Minister believe that during a medical procedure used for abortions that the procedure should allow the use of an anesthetic?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I just cannot imagine the type of answers, and I am really appalled. I would like an answer, yes or no, and an answer as to whether this issue can be dealt with. I am not getting anywhere and I am getting very frustrated. But I am going to keep pursuing the Minister on this issue throughout question period, because it is a critical issue and I am not getting answers for it. The public would probably want to know. I would like to know, during medical procedures, when abortions are being conducted, does the Minister believe that anesthesia should be used?

In your capacity as a Minister, as a government policy. Mr. Whitford.