The motion is in order. To the motion, Mrs.

Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday

I allowed the motion of non-confidence in the Hon. Tony Whitford to be stood down on the order paper because many Members felt it is the responsibility of the Government Leader to address the concerns Members have in the lack of

confidence in her Ministers. It is not my intention, Mr. Speaker, to play games, as alleged yesterday, toward the Members. Many Members felt that not only is there a lack of confidence but also a disappointment in how some Ministers fulfill their duties and responsibilities.

Mr. Speaker, Members have previously met with the Government Leader and indicated their concerns, particularly with the Minister of Social Services. However, the response was that the Government Leader felt it meant if Members are concerned and if her Ministers do not believe her in relaying the ordinary Members' concerns, then it is the responsibility of the ordinary Members to express these concerns directly to the appropriate Minister. All the ordinary Members believe that her request is wrong. The Government Leader placed her name forward to lead this government and to act on concerns.

When the Government Leader met with the ordinary Members, many Members expressed discontentment with the Minister of Social Services, but nothing was done. There are Members that still have concerns with the inability of the Minister of Social Services, that the only method to address that concern is to take the Minister out of this House, which ordinary Members feel is not the appropriate procedure. They strongly feel that it is the Government Leader's job to address this particular concern.

The Government Leader agrees, to some degree I believe, that her Minister is somewhat weak, and we wonder why something is not being done about it.

My main concern, Mr. Speaker, as a Member, is that the current Minister of Social Services is not being fair to cabinet by being allowed to have only one portfolio. I agree with many other Northerners that Mr. Whitford is a very nice man with an academic degree. However, in my opinion, he is not politically astute to fulfill his responsibility. He does not appear to have the ability to make decisions. When I spoke to the Government Leader on this inability to address issues and the unfairness of cabinet responsibilities in how they are distributed, she stated to me that Social Services was a department which could take up one Minister's time, which I fully agree. It could be a department that could be allowed for one Minister to fulfill his responsibility in a pro-active manner. But the fact of the matter is that nothing is being done in Social Services. There is no money to address anything pro-active in Social Services; and further, Mr. Speaker, when did our government ever allow for one Minister to take on only one department and a minor agency, while at the same time other Ministers take on four or five departments? I believe that is unfair.

Taking into consideration the current Minister of Social Services has only one department, and it is not that he should have more, it is a question of, can he handle more? He has already resigned as Minister of Health. A significant portion of his Department of Social Services, corrections, is going to move to Justice. Corrections has 237 PYs and a budget allotment of $19,577,000. In total, Social Services will be going from 430 PYs to 193 PYs, and from the current $90 million to an approximate reduction of $70 million, which no doubt will be a significantly smaller department to manage. I wonder if this is going to be allowed to continue.

Unfortunately, I have to state publicly, Mr. Speaker, I have no confidence in the Minister of Social Services as a Member. As I previously stated, it is unfair to allow one Minister to let other Ministers carry more responsibilities. It is unfortunate that many of my colleagues on this side of the House strongly feel it should be the Government Leader who addresses this general lack of confidence in the Ministers, and it should be she who addresses this issue. Mr. Speaker, I do not share the same point of view. I believe we, as Members, place Ministers in the cabinet. The Government Leader was deprived of being allowed to choose her cabinet, so I believe it is the responsibility of Members to address concerns we have toward Ministers of the cabinet.

Point of order, Ms. Cournoyea.

Point Of Order

Mr. Speaker, not to be disrespectful, and not to take away the right of a person to put a motion, but as a point of order there are several references or comments that were made outside this House, and they were not quite accurate, Mr. Speaker.

If I could caution Members in a debate of this nature, which is a very difficult type of debate, if Members could be very cautious in making references to discussions or meetings they had outside of this House, where all Members of this House do not have knowledge of that meeting, because it allows for some interpretations which different Members might find a little difficult; so could I ask Members to be quite cautious and respectful of each other as we carry on this debate. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Government Leader may feel that some of the comments are not true, but I believe they are. I have made a concerted effort with the ordinary Members to agree to a compromise position of not only stating publicly that I do not have confidence in the Minister of Social Services, but would further state as ordinary Members that there is a concern about other Ministers.

There is a general malaise by some ordinary Members that there is nothing being done in Economic Development. There is a general feeling that the Minister of Education is not fulfilling his responsibilities, and the same Minister appears to be in conflict with the Department of Culture and Communications by his recent conduct, There is a disappointment with the way Mr. Patterson conducts himself, specifically that he has difficulty in treating all Northerners fairly. The reason for the motion being developed...

Excuse me. Mrs. Marie-Jewell, if I could please emphasize again, if Members would be very cautious about what could be perceived as allegations of motives imputed to other Members. This House only works when we show respect to each other, so I would ask Mrs. Marie-Jewell and all Members if they could please respect that as we go through what is always a difficult type of debate. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I am trying to speak within the motion, and it is unfortunate that I have to speak the truth. I want to indicate to the public that there was a motion of censure already placed on Mr. Patterson on the cabinet. The reason for the motion being developed was due to a compromise position among the ordinary MLAs to bring forth the concerns publicly. Mr. Speaker, I have also stated that the goal of the Ordinary Members is to address the lack of confidence of Members towards the Ministers, but because of our system, which gives the Government Leader authority to address this concern, I agreed to place forth this motion in lieu of my previous motion.

Mr. Speaker, I realize the Government Leader stated she could not, or would not accept the Minister of Social Service's resignation because he did not do anything wrong. But I wonder, when a person does not do anything, how can one do anything wrong?

With these comments, Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate if I have offended some. However, I will allow my other colleagues to speak to the motion. Thank you.

Seconder to the motion, Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the comments to the motion, Mrs. Marie-Jewell mentioned everything. I agree with her that the Minister of Social Services has one department to look after, and the other Ministers have three or four departments. Also, I was concerned as well that the Government Leader has difficult work to do. I wonder if one department should be taken from her so that she can do her job better. We were discussing this issue in committee of the whole.

We are not saying that Mr. Whitford is a bad person. He is my friend. but we are not working properly together. When he is not carrying out his job properly when he is looking after Social Services, I do not really have confidence in him any more. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The motion is a very broad motion. It covers an awful lot of territory. I would like, however, Mr. Speaker, to point out that we did in a democratic fashion have a choice between two what I thought to be exceptionally good candidates for the leadership of this government. I spent a lot of time thinking about it. I spent so much time that eventually, even on the last day, I wondered which way I was going to go. I make no secret that I decided in the long run that I would choose Mr. Kakfwi to be the leader of our government. However, I was equally delighted when this group of people decided that we wanted to have Madam Cournoyea be our leader. I was quite happy. I respected the democratic process, and I had confidence that she listens, that she watches what is going on; she is a very experienced person. She has been in politics now for a long, long time. I remember, in fact, 20 years ago when she was with COPE. So I respect the kind of background, the knowledge, and the deep understanding that she has of the Northwest Territories.

In responding to this motion, Mr. Speaker, all I am doing is to support it knowing full well that this leader will do what she has to do to make this an effective, functioning government. She was given a chance to think through what she was going to do with the assignments that she had given to people. She meets with people on a regular basis, every day. We do not do that. Every day she sees what every individual does, and she is aware of the weaknesses and the strengths of individuals because every one of us has strengths and weakness, and we all have to recognize that.

So in supporting the motion I am supporting it because I have every confidence that our leader will do what she thinks is right for the best functioning of this government. Thank you.

To the motion. To the motion. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Speaker, I have read the motion, and basically the direction that has been given is that the motion is directing the Government Leader to take some course of action with regard to disciplining some of the Ministers because some Members on this side no longer have confidence in the performance of some of the cabinet Members.

Originally, Mr. Speaker, when we selected the Government Leader, we selected the Government Leader on the basis that she was going to perform the duties that are being asked in this motion. I did not vote for Ms. Cournoyea as the Government Leader, but at the same time, I am also of the same opinion as Mr. Lewis is, and that is to say that once the selection was done, I accepted it, and I have accepted Ms. Cournoyea for that task.

The difficulty I have with the motion is that we are telling her the same thing again that we told her when we first selected her as the Government Leader. But in particular, one of the things that I also have difficulty with is with regard to the non-confidence in some of the Ministers. Naturally, I have that notion, too, that when the Ministers were chosen, I was not confident that some of the Ministers chosen would do their jobs. But after the selection was done, I naturally agreed with the rest of the Members here that they were confident in every Minister that they selected to be sitting on the other side, and I continue to maintain that confidence in the eight Members. One of the difficulties I find, Mr. Speaker, is that I have not seen any indication by the performance of the Ministers that they are incompetent. I have not seen it to date. I do not know what the reasons for, or the intent of, the motion are.

I am not too sure whether or not we are making this motion for any wrong reasons or for any right reasons. For that reason, Mr. Speaker, I still feel confident that the Government Leader has a role to play and that I believe she will act accordingly. But as far as non-confidence, it really would be up to the Government Leader to decide whether or not there is. For that reason -- I am sure other Members will be speaking after me -- I cannot support the motion. Thank you.

To the motion. Ms. Cournoyea.

Point of Order

Mr. Speaker, I think as a point of order I would like to get a clarification from you. I know that the Members tried very hard to put a motion forward that would be not damning to one individual person, but with the preamble I am a bit concerned. If this motion is supported, is the preamble indicating non-confidence in the people that are being mentioned here? Thank you.

In response to the point of order raised by the Government Leader, the "whereases" do not form an official part of the motion, and it is not for the Chair to interpret exactly the thinking that goes into each "whereas." We have in this House hundreds of motions and probably thousands of "whereases." The Chair will concern itself with the motion itself, and as I have already ruled, the motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be supporting the motion. I have been concerned and have expressed this publicly in certain forums about the lack of action by certain Members of cabinet, and I know these Members in cabinet and ourselves, this whole government, have been hampered by budget restraints and other issues that have taken up their time and energies, However, all of the Members on cabinet are not new; they have been here before, and I think a lot of the happenings and actions are as a result of prior administrations, and I am not going to take responsibility for that.

However, as for the motion, I feel the Government Leader must act and take on the responsibility empowered her by this Assembly. Members have spoken with her in private on a lot of concerns and issues, and I think it is time now to be visible, be responsible, be accountable. Mahsi.

To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. I would ask the mover of the motion if she would care to conclude debate.

Mr. Speaker, I do not have any further comments; I have said them all, but I would like to ask for a recorded vote.

Motion 18-12(2), Carried

A recorded vote has been requested. All those in favour, please rise.