Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Education, and the government as a whole, change its priorities and plans to focus on building human resources and not the acquisition of assets.
Debates of Sept. 15th, 1992
Topics
Motion 151-12(2) To Adopt Recommendation 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 931
Motion 151-12(2) To Adopt Recommendation 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 931
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.
---Carried
General comments. Mr. Dent.
Motion 151-12(2) To Adopt Recommendation 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 931
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Finance also questioned the department on the requirement for the high level of administration expenditures in headquarters, given the creation of regional boards of education. The committee was also not convinced that six vice-presidents in Arctic College are effective.
Motion 152-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 26
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 931
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Education review the senior administration requirements at headquarters and Arctic College campuses for the view to determining if there are any redundancies or savings possible by reducing them for the 1993-94 main estimates.
Motion 152-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 26
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 931
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.
---Carried
General comments. Mr. Dent.
Motion 152-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 26
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 931
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There was some concern expressed at the Standing Committee on Finance meetings, about the Arctic College tendering procedures.
Motion 153-12(2) To Adopt Recommendation 27
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 931
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that Arctic College follow approved government procedure of the tendering of all contracts or that the responsibility be taken away from them.
Motion 153-12(2) To Adopt Recommendation 27
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 931
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed. The motion is carried.
---Carried
General comments. Mr. Dent.
Motion 153-12(2) To Adopt Recommendation 27
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 931
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Finance wishes to know what the department is going to accomplish with the money that is put into education and Arctic College programs.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 931
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Therefore, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Education report as a minimum, the following performance measurements in the 1993-94 main estimates.
- Trends and successful completion of grades 12, 10, 8, and Arctic College, including the percent of children who enter the education system, who successfully graduate from grade 12;
- Trends in the rate of illiteracy;
- An indication of the satisfaction of students, the public and education boards, with the education system;
- Student and parent participation rates;
- An indication of the performance of education boards; and
- Statistics of graduating students entering the workforce and the placement of more northerners in job opportunities.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Arvaluk.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
James Arvaluk Aivilik
Just a point of clarification, Mr. Chairman. There seems to be a contradiction between that recommendation and the recommendation to decrease the headquarters staff as much as possible, and the recommendation to increase the workforce in this case. I just want to make sure that there is no contradiction in that one.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. Mr. Dent.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
I do not believe that the object of this reduction of senior staff is one which has to do with reporting on results. I think that results need to be reported at every level of the department. I do not think that it should be an onerous task to put those results into some kind of report form for consideration by this Assembly.
I would hope that the Minister does not believe that because of this recommendation, he recreate the Department of Statistics and develop a new statistical model, or go out and survey and do extensive sampling, in order to present us with these things. I would hope that there would be enough recognition, and that a lot of this can be provided by just ensuring that the results are reported through the various areas in the department right now.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. To the motion. Ms. Cournoyea.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput
Just to add, one and two, we probably have that information. Number three would take some work to get that information. I do not think that would be something that we could take out of the system. The student and parent participation rates would depend on what you meant by student, but parent participation, we may not have that in the system. The indication of performance of education boards, I do not know how you would make the methodology of asking that question. Number six, is probably something that we can get out of our statistical, some of the education boards. I do not know how you would make the methodology of asking that question and number six is probably something that we can get out of our statistics, some of the areas are probably in the statistics bank already but some of them would take extra work. The issue is not only with the Department of Education on various areas, I think that we do have some of those statistics, but other areas we would not have in our bank of computer knowledge.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. Mr. Dent.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For instance, an indication of the performance of the education boards might be how many students are graduating, how many students are attending. I suspect that the department has that information already. It is presenting it to us in a global fashion, but there is no reason that it could not be separated out by school district and presented. That would give us some indication of what the performance was of those education boards.
We have asked for an indication of satisfaction of students, public and education boards with the education system. I suspect you could ask the education boards for all of that information. You would probably find that it would not be that difficult to obtain. I suspect that most of the school districts or boards in the Northwest Territories now are doing some of this work on their own.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
An Hon. Member
(inaudible)
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
I disagree, I think they are. We are not asking for a detailed statistical breakdown, we are asking for some indication.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.
---Carried
That concludes the recommendations. Are there any other general comments with regard to the Department of Education and, if I might, is it the wish of the committee that we invite the witnesses into the committee?
---Agreed
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Mr. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you escort them in please? Thank you. Could I ask the Minister to introduce his witnesses?
Department Of Education
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
James Arvaluk Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Left of me is Mr. Hal Gerein, Deputy Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, and to my right is Paul Devitt, Director of Finance and Management.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
The Chair Richard Nerysoo
Thank you. Are there any other general comments? Mr. Koe.
Motion 154-12(2): To Adopt Recommendation 28
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 932
Fred Koe Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to make a few comments on a couple of items related to the Department of Education. One of the concerns that we are experiencing in Inuvik, and this has happened in various communities over the years, is the procedure of determining the numbers of teachers needed from one year to the next.
For instance, this year in Inuvik we, all of a sudden, have an increase in students and not enough teachers. If someone from the department had asked me last spring, I would have told them this would have happened, but nobody asked me. Based on the research I have done it raised the question in my mind that if I knew, why would the Department not know. With all of the computers and knowledge and statistics we have on people in the system, our population base is not that big. There are 57,000 people, and I do not know how many are in our school systems that we can track to know who is coming up through the system and who is going to go into high school.
The procedure that is used, and correct me if I am wrong, is that enrolments rates are determined in the fall for the following year, and then the numbers of teachers required are based on that rate, almost a year ahead of time. There does not seem to be any flexibility in the system to adjust, and when September comes and all of a sudden the classrooms are bulging with more students than you have budgeted for, you have to go into a process of getting supplementary budgets or the department has to revise their budget. I would just like the officials to address that.