Thank you. Pollution control. Someone had a concern on this before. Total O & M of $722,000. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Chairman, with regard to the emergencies, I can only refer to what happened this fall, when the barge hit some rocks and a lot of fuel was spilled into the river. Mr. Chairman, during my last nine years as a Member, I asked whether or not we do have emergency teams that can respond to spills, or hazardous waste on the highways, it should be addressed as quickly as possible. That is not the case. We do have teams in Yellowknife, I believe, and in Hay River, but in between, we do not have anything.

The situation in Providence, the day that the spill occurred, I chartered a plane, and I want to thank Transportation for covering that cost. I observed the situation from the air, and there were no coastguards, there was not anything being done, really being done, at that point in time, as I was looking at the situation.

I was later told that the spill expert, or the expert that is supposed to be looking after this, was in Tuktoyaktuk or Coppermine, or somewhere down that way, and there were no coastguards to be seen. I would think that because of the strategic location of Fort Providence or Fort Simpson, or for that matter Fort Good Hope, that we would have a team, whether they be, like fire fighters, or whatever the case may be, they should be available and should be trained to take on these kinds of situations. We do not have them at this point in time. We do have a transportation route, by road, as well as by river. I think that, this year, when environmental issues are high on the government's list and have been talked about internationally, this government should look at initiating strategic plans for these types of emergency situations.

I would like ask the Minister if he has any plans, at this point in time. Mr. Chairman, while there was a spill in Providence, there was also one in the eastern Arctic, Hudson Strait or somewhere around that area, I do not know how they dealt with it, but these things are happening. It is not as if, it is something that should be taken lightly, but should really be looked at by the government.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I agree that we need to improve the response to spill line. As a result of the spill that occurred at Fort Providence, the Canadian Transportation Safety Board announced that the board will initiate an investigation into all aspects of the spill. Out of this investigation, there is no doubt that there will be recommendations coming out, how to best respond to spills, especially in the Northwest Territories, and other areas, in waters, land, rivers.

As most of the Northwest Territories is Crown land, the Northwest Territories government does not normally have the full responsibility of responding, nor do we have sufficient resources to have a spill contingency team that could respond to the spill. Although we are involved in the monitoring, and also we take part in the spill reporting line, the Canadian Council of Ministers, environmental agencies in Canada, presently prescribe the polluted pays principle and that they also require to have a plan in place to respond to clean ups, respond to spills for the purpose of cleaning it up. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. When you said most of the land in the territories is Crown land, you are saying over 80 percent of the land is Crown land. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Chairman, I pinpointed two incidents that happened this summer, but there were also other incidents, in which, like the Hercules that went down near Herschel Island, or somewhere in the High Arctic, and that took several days before they got to it, and had cause for loss of life. Those are the kinds of situations that we are running into. We do have emergency situations, in which we really do not have, it is not a question of jurisdiction, it is a question of whether or not we have manpower ourselves to address it, and worry about the costs after it has been addressed.

We have situations, Mr. Minister, in which if a vehicle has hazardous waste, and spills some on the Mackenzie Highway, and the emergency response is not to evacuate a community, so that it might suffocate us or something like that. You know, we do not have anything in place to address that, and that is a concern I have. Naturally, they are doing some special inquiries as a result of the accident in Fort Providence, and the spill in the High Arctic; but what are we doing, as a government, to protect the people in the event of an emergency. We cannot rely on Yellowknife or Hay River to address that if it is going to be in Grise Fiord or maybe some other place, so we should be able to address it, and address it now. That is my concern, Mr. Minister, and this government must be reviewing the situation, and saying, we really do not have any plans, we should develop a plan on how we will be addressing that. These are the committees that should be designated to respond to those types of situations. We should have something in place. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Minister, how receptive, and attentive, are you to the report on potential contamination to the environment? Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As a department, we are administering the spill line, and we are asking all potential polluters to have contingency plans in place just in case of the spill. Hopefully, this Canadian Transportation Safety Board investigation will tell us how to improve our capabilities in responding to these spills. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. Just with regard to that, I am not satisfied with the response I am getting from the Minister on this issue. I do not know how serious the Minister is taking this. Emergencies are something that occur anytime, and if we are going to wait and rely on the Department of Transportation, I do not know how long it will take before we get any response. The situation exists now, but we really are not addressing it.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand the Member's concern. It would take about a year for the Canadian National Transportation Safety Board to come back with a report, and like I said, the department itself does not have resources to be responsible for cleaning up all the spills. At this moment, Environment Canada requires that polluters pay, and they are required to have contingency plans in place, for instance, those transportation companies that transport dangerous chemicals. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Mr. Minister, do we have sufficient funds in the program?

Thank you. Once again, the department does not have resources. What we are doing though, in terms of shore line clean up, the Canadian Environmental Strategy through a Green Plan, is the communities are able to get some resources to clean up the shore lines, and we could assist the community in applying for the Green Plan funding. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under the Green Plan, as a department, we are not allowed to put a proposal together to the federal government. What we have done so far, we have made organizations aware that there is Green Plan money available. So far, there are quite a few communities that have applied, and have got grants, including the Metis Nation. They requested some resources to clean up the old fishing sights along the Great Slave area. Mr. Chairman, we would be happy to make each community aware of this particular plan. Thank you.

Thank you. Carry on. Okay, we are under pollution control. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is not directly on the pollution control. The High Arctic is very large and vast, and it is very hard to do a study. The best time would be in spring or summer, because it is very hard in wintertime when it is dark all day long.

At the time when they were first established, they used to do studies on old campsites, or mining potential. Those were the studies that were conducted. There is a lot of stuff that was left behind. I am aware that the territorial government will not have sufficient funding to do environmental clean up, even if there was a study done. There are old barrels, old shacks, and old batteries. There are quite a number of those that were left behind. If they are close to the communities, they are slowly cleaning up the communities, but for some places that are further from the communities they are very hard to clean up, especially without funding. I know, for the sites that are close to the communities, the federal government is starting to be more responsive to what the communities want in terms of cleaning up. At first it was Grise Fiord, there were weather stations that were put there, and they left behind a lot of garbage.

Now adays, since we seem to be able to function with funding, I know all those are dangerous to the environment. They seem to be only more concerned about the sites that are close to the community. They cannot say, mining companies, or whatever, will come up to you and say they are damaging the environment. They are mainly concerned that it will require money to clean up.

In the very near future, there are sites where studies are being conducted. We have to be more careful to make sure that they are not damaging the environment. We are going to have to protect our land, whether it be the water or on the land. There is more pollution now than before. I think, one of the hardest is pollution control, because we cannot pinpoint where, exactly, it is coming from. We are more observant to the pollutants on land or on water, but if it is air pollution, even if I tried to explain it, because a lot of it, the air pollution, is coming from overseas. The people who work for Environment Canada are trying to pinpoint or find out exactly where it is coming from, and I think they can advise us now as to how fast it is going to our land. There are a lot of people who are working on it, they go up to Alert. In Alert I have seen their equipment that they use to do the study. I have gone there more than once. In Mould Bay, they also have equipment, and they have said there might be danger, pollution wise. So, in the very near future, if there is pollution on land, in water, and the air, if you put them together, there is going to be damage to our environment. The federal and territorial government should have a better working relationship to advise the people outside of Canada how the environment ... (Translation ends)...much will be done. We actually have to do the work, and it should be done in the very near future.

Now adays, the people who reside in the High Arctic, not just in the High Arctic, I presume that maybe through the wildlife our elders know how it used to be in regards to the wildlife. While they are still alive they have seen the changes with the wildlife through their parts, such as liver, or the skin, or meat. They have noticed that they are different now. They cannot pinpoint what causes this. However, they think that it is because the environment is not being protected carefully enough, whether it be through land or water. That is what they think, because it was never like that before, but presently, that is what they think is the cause. The federal and territorial government will have to work more closely, and more carefully with the people outside of Canada. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Pudluk. Mr. Minister. Was your concern funding, or the environment?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not think he asked a specific question, but we understood his comments. Thank you.