This is page numbers 233 - 277 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was report.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. Arvaluk, Hon. Michael Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 233

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. I take this opportunity to welcome to the Assembly, Mr. Gary Bohnet, President of the Metis Nation.

---Applause

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 233

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Madam Premier.

Minister's Statement 29-12(4): Western Premiers' Conference, Hosted By Alberta On November 25, 1993 At Canmore
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 233

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to provide Members of the Legislative Assembly with a short summary of the discussions and agreements reached at the western Premiers' conference, hosted last Thursday, November 25, by the Province of Alberta.

Last year, the Northwest Territories and Yukon were invited to participate as full members of the western Premiers' process. We have continued in the capacity as full participants at this year's conference.

Since many of our economic and social ties flow directly to the western provinces, the Government of the Northwest Territories viewed membership in the western Premiers' process as an important opportunity to build on and consolidate those relationships.

The western Premiers' conference this year, was reduced in time from two days to only one. However, I believe a great deal was accomplished in that one-day meeting.

The agenda for the western Premiers' conference covered the following main topics: the western economy within the Canadian context; federal/provincial fiscal renewal; and, western cooperation.

There were a number of issues discussed within this overall agenda and these issues included job creation and infrastructure, economic development and western economic diversification, skills development and labour market training, internal trade barriers, international trade and agriculture.

Premiers also discussed debt management and deficit reduction and identified these issues as a critical national problem. Western premiers released the western Finance Ministers' report, Partnership for Fiscal Renewal, at the conference following their final meeting on November 24. The Northwest Territories has actively participated in the development of this report.

Finally, Premiers reviewed and released an inventory of existing areas of cooperation between the western provinces and the territories.

Mr. Speaker, I intend to table a copy of this inventory, the western Finance Ministers' report and the communiques from the conference, for the information of Members of this Assembly. For the benefit of the Members, I will briefly summarize the discussions and areas of agreement.

Provincial and territorial Premiers focused on the proposed federal infrastructure program during their discussions on job creation and infrastructure.

While the federal infrastructure program was welcomed, concern was expressed that it should be considered as a supplement which would not result in reduced federal transfer payments or a reduction to existing program and project commitments to territories and to the provinces.

The western Premiers urged that the program allocation criteria be re-examined to make it more equitable for western Canada. The federal government was urged to incorporate the principles and criteria agreed to at the meeting into the national infrastructure program.

I am pleased to say, as a result of the representation from the Northwest Territories and Yukon, western Premiers were unanimous that federal funding and allocations should take into account the special circumstances of the Northwest Territories and the Yukon.

---Applause

The Premiers endorsed the recommendations of the western Finance Ministers' report, which calls for a cooperative and comprehensive strategy to deal with Canada's growing public sector debt.

That actions of the provinces and territories to address fiscal difficulties in their own jurisdictions was recognized. Provincial and territorial governments have plans to resolve their deficit problems and western leaders stressed that they should not be penalized for their responsible actions.

Western leaders called on all First Ministers to work together to set essential program priorities and to work in partnership to resolve this national problem.

A commitment was made by western Premiers, to bring this message to Ottawa at their meeting with the Prime Minister in December.

With respect to western economic cooperation, western and territorial leaders reviewed provincial, territorial and regional priorities for economic development and diversification. They reaffirmed their commitment to a coordinated and cooperative approach to addressing their shared objectives.

Among other initiatives, Premiers and leaders agreed, jointly, to develop a regional trade promotion and marketing plan and a western strategy for cooperation in science and technology.

Ministers responsible for the various initiatives are to report on each item, before the 1994 western Premiers' conference in Manitoba, next spring.

From the point of view of the Northwest Territories, western Premiers recognized the importance of current economic arrangements -- EDAs -- to the territories. More importantly, western Premiers agreed to propose that those current arrangements be expanded to ensure that the territorial governments be full participants in future western initiatives and consultations concerning regional development.

Premiers and government leaders indicated their support for the continuation of multilateral federal/ provincial/territorial negotiations, on the reduction of internal trade barriers. The Northwest Territories is a participant in these negotiations.

Mr. Speaker, I think Members will be interested in the number of different areas where there is existing cooperation between the western provinces and territories. We have a copy of the inventory on these cooperative arrangements that we do have.

The inventory, prepared by Alberta, with the assistance of the western provinces and both territories, provides evidence of the sharing of expertise and resources. These cooperative efforts have provided an access to a broader range of services at less cost than would otherwise be the case. In addition, these cooperative efforts have saved lives and, in one case, saved a community in northern Manitoba, besieged by a forest fire, from destruction.

The inventory provides an excellent basis for future cooperative efforts and actions that are currently under way.

The Northwest Territories provides a significant opportunity, with respect to future cooperation based on potential mining and infrastructure initiatives. I have identified this potential with my western colleagues and intend to provide more detail at the western Premiers' conference, in the spring of 1994, in Manitoba.

Similarly, responsible Ministers from the western provinces and territories have been asked to report on other potential areas of cooperation before the spring conference.

Minister's Statement 30-12(4): Ministers' Absence From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 233

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I have another statement. Mr. Speaker, the Honourable John Pollard will be leaving the House this afternoon and will be absent for the remainder of the week, to attend a federal/provincial/territorial Finance Ministers' meeting in Halifax. While in Halifax, Mr. Pollard will also be attending an Economic Development and Finance Ministers' meeting. During his absence, the Honourable Richard Nerysoo will serve as Government House Leader.

The Honourable John Todd will be leaving for Halifax tomorrow to attend the Economic Development and Finance Ministers' meeting and will also be away from the House for the remainder of the week. Mr. Todd's return to Yellowknife will be delayed until next Monday evening due to a meeting in Rankin Inlet with the Honourable Ron Irwin, Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 30-12(4): Ministers' Absence From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 234

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Madam Premier. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ms. Mike.

Minister's Statement 31-12(4): Food Allowances
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 234

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government recognizes the need to adjust food allowances in a manner that reflects local realities and keeps pace with the changing economy.

Because of this, the budget available for the Department of Social Services' social assistance food allowance has been increased by over $2 million in the past 18 months.

Members will recall that in April of 1992, there was a five per cent increase in the food allowance. The increase resulted in additional expenditures of about $400,000 per year.

In October of this year, the food scales and food allowance rates were changed based on the results of the most recent food costs survey conducted in cooperation with the Bureau of Statistics. The recent increases are expected to result in additional expenditures of $1.6 million. For a family of four, the changes will mean increases of up to $280 per month.

Mr. Speaker, the changes are responsive to the needs of people who are not able to provide basic levels of subsistence for themselves or their families. The cost of food in communities throughout the territories will continue to be monitored in order to make sure that the allowances reflect changes that take place in local, regional and territorial economies. Qujannamiik.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 31-12(4): Food Allowances
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 234

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Ms. Mike. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Nerysoo.

Minister's Statement 32-12(4): Decentralization Training
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 234

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, this government has made a commitment to transfer more government programs to the community level. Some of the 79 positions identified were decentralized in April, while others are targeted

for 1994. To ensure that people have the skills to fill these positions, the Financial Management Board approved $800,000 for 1992-93 and another $784,000 for 1993-94 for decentralization training. I would like to bring you up to date on this initiative.

A total of 86 students from across the NWT have taken various training courses through Arctic College over the past year. Another 33 students have enrolled in Arctic College programs being offered this fall through decentralization funding. These programs are scheduled to be completed by June, 1994.

Approximately twice the number of candidates as the number of positions being decentralized have received training. This is to ensure that there is a pool of trained candidates to compete for these jobs, as well as those vacated by current government or private sector employees moving to decentralized jobs and those freed up by normal staff turnover. To date, 12 students have been offered decentralized positions.

In addition to the students pursuing studies through Arctic College, 13 positions were established through the public service career training program to prepare people for decentralization. These training positions are located in Rankin Inlet, Inuvik, Fort Simpson and Iqaluit. I am pleased to say that the training for the positions in Inuvik are now completed and all candidates were very successful. The trainees from Rankin Inlet are due to finish in December, while the Iqaluit trainees will finish in 1994 and the Fort Simpson trainees in 1995.

Mr. Speaker, the decentralization of government positions has provided an important catalyst for people to improve their skills and education in order to prepare for new employment possibilities. The program has already met with a good deal of success.

My department will produce a detailed student placement report once all the courses are completed, in order to assess the programs' effectiveness. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 32-12(4): Decentralization Training
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 235

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Minister's Statement 33-12(4): Dci Traditional Dene Justice Report
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 235

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, later today I will table an overview of the final report of the traditional dene justice project. This project was run for the last three years in Lac La Martre by the Dene Cultural Institute. The final report was finished in September and will be published by the Arctic Institute in December.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to be able to table this report for a number of reasons. This project is important because of what it says about how justice was traditionally administered by the Dogrib nation. This is the first time that this information has been collected in a systematic way.

The other significant thing about this study is the way in which the information for the study was gathered. Unlike other studies that are directed by southern academics for their own purposes, this study, from the beginning, was directed by the community. A community advisory committee was chaired by the chief. Not only did community members participate in the direction and operation of the study but also individuals were trained to collect and record information themselves. As a result, this study has left skills and an increased level of self-confidence in Lac La Martre, skills that will be useful in the future.

A draft of the final report was reviewed by all the Dogrib communities to make sure that people agreed with what was written, and with the recommendations. The report confirms that the Dene, long before the arrival of the Europeans, had laws and a system of justice that worked. What is most interesting is the detail provided by the elders about what these laws were and how they were enforced.

The report is frank. It speaks of the difficulties that face the community today. It examines the details of particular cases that have taken place recently in Lac La Martre. These cases illustrate that it is going to be a long process of generating confidence, learning from mistakes and building on successes. The report is forthright about the need to address issues of alcohol abuse and physical abuse in the community. There is an emphasis on the need to pay serious attention to the healing of individuals and families at a community level.

Moving ahead will require commitment from all parties. In particular, there will be a need for a commitment to an inclusive process of pursuing change, a process that includes elders and younger people, men and women.

This is the kind of research that government must encourage. I wish to offer my congratulations to the community members who participated in this project, to the advisory committee, the chief and band council and to everyone in Lac La Martre for their good work and their commitment to this project. I also wish to recognize Dr. Ryan and the research team and the Dene Cultural Institute for initiating this project and seeing it through to completion.

The Department of Justice is committed to doing things in a different way. The department recognizes that the current system is an imposed one and respects the views of elders that traditional values and practices form the basis of this different way of doing things. The department has set out in the direction of encouraging communities to assume responsibilities. Assuming justice responsibilities is part of a larger process of communities taking back responsibility over their own lives.

It is an exciting process, even though it's not perfectly clear at this stage where this process will take us. But that's appropriate, gone are the days when the government will arrive with a great master plan on how things are going to be done at the community level. It is in partnership with the community that we will take our direction and this report is very encouraging news that we are moving in the right direction. Thank you.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 33-12(4): Dci Traditional Dene Justice Report
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 235

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Minister's Statement 34-12(4): Meeting With European Parliamentarians
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 236

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Jim Antoine, has travelled to Brussels. He is meeting today with European parliamentarians on fur harvesting issues. Mr. Antoine has been a strong advocate of traditional lifestyles and is seen as more than capable of representing northern trappers and harvesters on these matters. I am sure Members of this House will want to join me in wishing him well in his travels and meetings in Brussels this week. Thank you.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 34-12(4): Meeting With European Parliamentarians
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 236

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Resignation Of Mr. Paul Quassa
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of the Nunavut Caucus, I rise today to thank Paul Quassa for the work he has done for the Inuit of Nunavut. His resignation on Friday, as President of Nunavut Tungavik, ended a stage in Paul's life in which he played a major role in the evolution of Inuit people in Nunavut.

As a land claim negotiator for TFN and as the president of both the AFN and its successor, the organization Nunavut Tungavik, Paul worked hard for his people. His accomplishments, Mr. Speaker, should not be forgotten. On behalf of all people of Nunavut, I would like to say Qujannamiik to Paul as he goes forward into the future. Thank you.

---Applause

Resignation Of Mr. Paul Quassa
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Fresh Fish From Great Slave Lake
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members who sat in the 11th Assembly will know I'm committed to import replacement, economic diversification and greater use of our natural resources. I'd like Members to join me this afternoon in the Members' lounge to enjoy some fresh fish brought out of Great Slave Lake this weekend. This lake is one of our great treasure houses of food, but during the winter months Yellowknifers are barely aware of it, Mr. Speaker.

As I've said previously, Mr. Buckley and his family are committed to supplying fresh or frozen fish to Yellowknife residents throughout the winter. The Buckley fish outlet has now moved to a new location at 4918 - 44 Street, near the old fire hall. I'm aware of no other business in Yellowknife committed to providing local fresh fish to the Yellowknife market throughout the year. I'm pleased to see local people responding so well to this new renewable resource business venture. I trust Members will enjoy a fresh fish chowder, pickerel, burbot and white fish, courtesy of myself and the Buckley family during this afternoon's break. Thank you.

---Applause

Fresh Fish From Great Slave Lake
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ng.

Economic Utilization Of Country Food
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My first question in this House was directed to the Honourable John Todd, regarding the utilization of country foods economically, within our government institutions. In my preamble to my questions to the Minister, I outlined the economic benefits to our residents, through the utilization of our commercial quotas. Hunters and fishermen receive valuable income for their initial harvesting. Employees receive wages if the country food is sent to processing facilities. The owners of the processing facilities receive a return on their investment. And, finally and most importantly, all income derived from this activity stays and circulates in the community.

Mr. Speaker, since I've become a Member of this Assembly and since moving into our new home, I've had the opportunity -- like all of us -- to sample the cuisine from the Assembly caterers. Although I enjoy a majority of the food, I find it extremely disappointing that we only get pork chops, chicken, lasagna, roast beef, et cetera, when we, as an Assembly, and our government, is attempting to promote our own products.

Economic Utilization Of Country Food
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

An Hon. Member

Right on.

---Applause

Economic Utilization Of Country Food
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Speaker, why couldn't there be caribou, muskox, Arctic char and white fish served instead of salmon? If we, as representatives of our people, can't recognize a problem in this, then we're in deep trouble.

I will be tabling a written question later, on the existing and past commercial quotas in the NWT, and to what extent we are utilizing these quotas.

In response to a question, the honourable Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, over a week ago, said to us that he was working with other departments to utilize commercial quotas. The Minister thought a policy was not required. Mr. Speaker, I disagree with the Minister. I believe the government must develop a policy which forces all departments to fully maximize their usage of our commercial quotas in their operation, whether it be a student hostel under Education, a correctional facility under Justice or an elders' facility or group home under Health and Social Services. If we cannot maximize our utilization of our own renewable resources to our institutions, what hope do we have of improving the lifestyle of our people who depend on subsistence harvesting and our initiatives to provide them with employment opportunities?

Mr. Speaker, I will be seeking the government's commitment in placing a priority on developing a renewable resource commercial quota policy, as soon as possible, in order to maximize the economic benefits from our existing renewable resources. I hope that my colleagues will support me in this matter. Thank you.

---Applause

Economic Utilization Of Country Food
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Report Of Special Committee On Health And Social Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to make a statement on the report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. Mr. Speaker, I have no real problem with the basic recommendations in the report, but I would like to tell the Members and the public about the amalgamation, integration or incorporation of our culture into the Euro-Canadian culture and not to deal with the aboriginal culture in isolation.

Mr. Speaker, the Dene and the Euro-Canadians have very different ways of dealing with the world around them. The report does not go far enough. The majority of all problems in the communities can be attributed to the feelings of alienation and assimilation of our young people into the Euro-Canadian way of life. If a person does not know where they are from or if they have a poor sense of their own cultural identity, Mr. Speaker, it is hard for them to get anywhere with their lives.

I also believe that some of the recommendations are based on hearsay, as opposed to the cold, hard facts. The report states that the older generation of Dene have little impact on the Euro-Canadians and that those members of our community over 75 years of age live a very traditional life. If this is the case, Mr. Speaker, why do many of the seniors drink heavily? I think the reasons many of our seniors drink is because we have taken away their traditional place in Dene culture as the teachers and have replaced them with Euro-Canadian institutions to teach our children.

Mr. Speaker, aboriginal people must live, with the effect of the attempts of Euro-Canadians to assimilate us, to turn us, as a people, into carbon copies of the white ideals.

Mr. Speaker, the final report does not address the root of the problems. Until we have all recovered pride as a people, we will not be able to stand tall, to have a sense of self-worth that translates into action. The report needs to take a holistic approach to the problems we have in the territories, and it fails to do so.

Mr. Speaker, I have been requested to not take too much of the Assembly's time on this issue. Therefore, this will be the last comments I make on the Special Committee on Health and Social Services report in this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Report Of Special Committee On Health And Social Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Improvements In Search And Rescue Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just finished reading a book entitled, "Death and Deliverance," by Robert Manson Lee. It's about the crash and rescue efforts concerning the military herc, in the High Arctic on October 30, 1991. Reading about the herc, the heroic efforts, mixed with the frustration of the rescuers during that 36 hours it took to reach the crash site, which was only 20 kilometres from the base at Alert, it makes one wonder what improvements have been made in search and rescue techniques since then.

What have we learned? Or, rather, what have our search and rescue technicians, the SARTECH people, learned about Arctic rescue?

Improvements In Search And Rescue Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

An Hon. Member

Use the people up there.

Improvements In Search And Rescue Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Right. I'll get to that. Members of this House are all too familiar with the dangers of flying in the north and travelling in the north. The weather, long distance, aging equipment and, to some degree, just plain luck are all factors.

Another thing, Mr. Speaker, each day dozens of huge passenger planes crisscross the Arctic. Inevitably, one of them could find itself on the ground in winter. Then what?

Reading the accounts of the valiant efforts of the crew of our aging Labrador helicopters, flying, knowing full well that their efforts were hopeless due to breakdowns, remoteness and the lack of some very basic electronic equipment, they deserve our utmost in appreciation and praise for their courage. While on the other hand, and closer to home, perhaps, in somewhat better conditions, a daring night-time rescue of a Yellowknife family from their crash site was successful, thanks to the efforts of our own civilian private operators at Aero Arctic Helicopters.

If we have learned anything from the crash of Box Top 22, it is that their preparedness and courage was not enough. Without proper, up-to-date equipment, lives will be lost because planes still fly and, inevitably, planes will crash. What then? Maybe, just maybe...I seek unanimous consent to conclude.

Improvements In Search And Rescue Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Whitford.

Improvements In Search And Rescue Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Maybe, just maybe, our military needs new helicopters, not the state-of-the-art war machines that were proposed, then cut. Just plain new, dependable and well-equipped helicopters. Our lives may some day depend on them. Better still, we also need a home grown, northern trained, properly equipped...

Improvements In Search And Rescue Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

Improvements In Search And Rescue Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

...and funded rescue unit. Use the people who live there. Again, the lives of the people of the north may one day depend on them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Improvements In Search And Rescue Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last session, during the month of March, I posed many questions to the Minister of Justice, regarding the River Ridge facility in Fort Smith, better know as the young offenders'

secure facility. Mr. Speaker, we all know the Minister designated this facility as a triple designated facility. What was once known to staff as a secure facility, is now a facility for open custody of young offenders. In addition, it is a facility to hold remanded young offenders.

Mr. Speaker, last spring I was extremely concerned regarding the Minister's decision to designate such a facility as a triple designated facility. I was concerned because under the federal legislation, the Canada Corrections Act, looks after young offenders who commit serious crimes, such as murders. I was concerned because the Young Offenders' Act, under territorial legislation, looks after crimes such as break and enters, liquor offences and minor crimes. So one facility was deemed to be responsible to look after different types of young offenders who commit different types of crimes.

Mr. Speaker, on April 1, I compromised with the Minister's decision, even though I didn't agree with that. He knew triple designation of a facility was not intended, in any way, shape or form, to look after open custody. The only way I allowed myself to compromise is because the Minister made a commitment to provide a report to this House on the facility, which I quote from, April 1, "I will be very pleased to provide a written report in October to show the Members that things are going very well, and will continue to go very well as planned." To date, I have been waiting very patiently for this report the Minister promised to provide. In fact, I even mentioned it in private a few times to the Minister -- I am still waiting for his report.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue with my statement.

River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 238

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 238

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. As I stated, I have asked in private a few times for this report and I did indicate to the Minister that I had been waiting for his report. Although, Mr. Speaker, I am convinced I am right in stating in this House that the Minister made the wrong decision to triple designate, I can wait no longer for this report and I want to tell the Members why.

First of all, last summer one of my constituents was held hostage at gunpoint by two young offenders who had escaped from the River Ridge facility. It was demanded of my constituent, at the time, to take these young offenders to Hay River, which they did. I recognize the courts addressed this matter and these young offenders received a lengthy sentence. However, again, my constituent's concern is an issue here.

Mr. Speaker, now I hear last night quite a few young offenders escaped. But before they did escape, I hear they attempted to beat up the young officers. I don't know whether or not they were successful, but I do know they did take one of the vehicles of a worker and totalled the vehicle. Mr. Speaker, this is a very dangerous situation to place our youth workers in and it is due to keeping such a facility as an open custody facility, which was initially intended as a secure custody facility, these types of incidents are happening.

Mr. Speaker, it is my concern as Member for Thebacha to wonder what would it take for this ill-advised decision to be reversed? Do one of my constituents have to be killed before this government will consider and realize the mistake they made? I hope not. Mr. Speaker, since there is time to correct such an ill-advised decision, I urge this government to recognize what serious impact this mistake could have on my constituency and to correct this matter and avoid tragedy in the future. Thank you.

---Applause

River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 238

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 91-12(4): Federal Priorities For Transportation Infrastructure
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 238

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Antoine on November 25, regarding federal priorities for the transportation infrastructure.

As of September, 1992, three months before the former Minister of Finance had announced the federal government's new infrastructure initiative, Transport Canada's capital plan for 1993-94 included $3.7 million for a maintenance garage and $1.8 million for a pavement overlay at the Fort Simpson airport.

In March of 1993, these same two projects at the Fort Simpson airport, along with several others, appeared as part of Transport Canada's proposal for Mr. Mazankowski's infrastructure program. In discussion with my federal counterparts, I was able to convince them that these projects did not really qualify as new initiatives, nor did they meet the priorities of the territorial government.

My officials at the Department of Transportation have found that the maintenance garage and pavement overlay at the Fort Simpson airport were deferred for a year. A month ago, October 1993, the same two projects appear again in Transport Canada's capital plan. They are now scheduled for 1994-95.

Other than to say that the rescheduling and deferral of projects is a routine budget management decision federal and territorial departments must make from time to time, I am not privy to the internal decisions of Transport Canada and I do not know why the Fort Simpson projects were deferred for one year. Thank you.

Return To Question 91-12(4): Federal Priorities For Transportation Infrastructure
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 238

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 58-12(4): Percentage Allotted To Northern Firms Under The Bip
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 238

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Allooloo on November 23, 1993, percentage allotted to northern firms under the business incentive policy.

While I was in Ottawa meeting with the federal Minister of Housing, Mr. Allooloo asked a question regarding the application of the business incentive policy on a Housing Corporation contract in Pond Inlet.

For clarification, under the business incentive policy, a 15 per cent adjustment to the bid is given to the specified northern content of the bid and 20 per cent adjustment to the bid is given to the specified local content of the bid. No bid adjustment is given to any southern content.

With reference to the specific situation mentioned by Mr. Allooloo in Pond Inlet regarding the electrical contract:

-the contract was to provide labour to complete electrical wiring for three houses;

-the local company proposed to employ an individual from Montreal. Also, the required information on the local or northern content was not provided in the bid. Therefore, no adjustment was made to the bid;

-the company from outside the community is a business incentive policy-registered northern firm operating out of Resolute Bay. The northern company's bid proposed to employ two northerners, a northern electrician and a northern apprentice. Based on the stated northern content, the Resolute Bay company was given a 15 per cent adjustment on the bid and became the low bidder on the contract.

-Subsequent to the contract award, the Resolute Bay company informed the Housing Corporation that the original northern electrician was unable to undertake the work and that a replacement northern electrician would take his place. The corporation agreed to this.

-During the week of November 15, 1993, the Housing Corporation received information that the Resolute Bay company hired an electrician from Newfoundland to do the work.

The investigation which followed confirmed these allegations. Apparently, the northern electrician who was to replace the original northern electrician was also unable to work on the project due to other commitments. The owner of the Resolute Bay company admitted that he has seriously erred in replacing the northern electrician with a southern import without first informing the Housing Corporation.

The Housing Corporation is currently considering the actions it can take against the Resolute Bay company. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 58-12(4): Percentage Allotted To Northern Firms Under The Bip
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 24-12(4): List Of Early Retirees - Dms And Adms
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 239

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on November 19, 1993, regarding a list of early retirees; deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers.

Mr. Speaker, 11 deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers were given special arrangements or early retirement over the past five years. Although I have a legal obligation to hold the content of these special arrangements in confidence, I can, however, inform the House that the average cost was $76,808 and the range was from $17,000 to $186,247. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 24-12(4): List Of Early Retirees - Dms And Adms
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the honourable Minister responsible for Social Services. About a year ago I asked the Minister -- probably the Minister prior to the Minister we have now -- about a senior citizens' home for Gjoa Haven. The response, according to my understanding, was that it was in the capital works.

Mr. Speaker, we owe our lives and education to our senior citizens. It is my understanding that the Kitikmeot region is the only region that doesn't have a senior citizens' facility. Is the honourable Minister committed to providing a senior citizens' home for Gjoa Haven that could be utilized by both Taloyoak and Pelly Bay for the time being? Thank you.

Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Mike.

Return To Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member for Natilikmiot is well aware that the funding arrangements we had with the federal government were cut. The federal government was providing 75 per cent, and our government was providing 25 per cent for senior citizens' homes. Since the cutback we have been having problems identifying the other 75 per cent that the federal government no longer provides.

Return To Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Return To Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, I have, on occasion, talked to the Minister about the facility. One thing that I'm not up-to-date on is whether, in fact, the senior citizens' home in Gjoa Haven will be reinstated in the next fiscal year. Thank you.

Return To Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

We are waiting for your question, Mr. Ningark. I know it is coming. Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question to the honourable Minister is will the senior citizens' home in Gjoa Haven be reinstated in the next fiscal year?

Supplementary To Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Mike.

Further Return To Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member knows, the senior citizens' home is in the five year capital plan. According to how successful we are in reinstating the level of funding that was provided by the federal government, as far as I know it will be in the five year capital plan. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Question 116-12(4): Senior Citizens' Facilities
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to pose my question to the Minister of Justice, following up on my Member's statement today. On April 1 -- and it wasn't an April Fool's joke -- I had asked the Minister of Justice if he would commit to provide me with a written status report on the success or the lack of success of the change in the River Ridge facility by October.

At the time the Minister said he would. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice whether he feels changing the River Ridge facility, from a secure facility to a triple designated facility with open custody, has been one of the department's successes? Thank you.

Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, when we reach item 13, I will be tabling a report, as I promised last year, on the River Ridge young offenders facility. All Members will have an opportunity to see that it was a good decision at the time. It will give some indication about our views at the present time, including those of the staff. Thank you.

Return To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Taking into account that the Minister has indicated that he'll be tabling his report today of what, in his view, was a proper decision, and taking into account the two incidents that I have expressed concern about in this House, how can the Minister indicate that his decision has been the right decision when my constituents are held in life-threatening situations? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, that it was her constituents has really no bearing on the way the legislation compels us to treat young offenders. It is the courts and judges who designate young offenders either to be held in open custody or closed custody. In some incidents where the youth were sentenced to open custody, there was no previous indication or indication leading up to the incidents that they would commit the offenses.

We have checked with other jurisdictions in the country and it shows that the number of incidents of this nature we have on a per capita basis is not unlike other jurisdictions. In fact, the level of these types of incidents involving young offenders is less than in other jurisdictions.

Further Return To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It certainly should be less, we have a lot smaller population compared to many other jurisdictions. I find the answer to be frivolous, at best. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister -- and I would like to go back to my initial question I asked -- how can he indicate to this House that the facility being designated to a triple designation is a correct decision while recognizing these couple of incidents? I know of two other incidents, not pertaining to River Ridge, but to the Hay River facility, that place my constituents' lives in jeopardy. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, whether the facilities are located in Fort Smith or any other location, the fact is we are dealing here with youth who have some problems. They are, in many cases, troubled. They need counselling. They need some form of discipline. They need support, and the staff that we have are trained to provide that.

There is no place in this world, regardless of the number of bars, locks and armed guards we have, that will wipe out these types of incidents. It's the nature of how to run these types of facilities. Because you lock children up, hold them in custody of some form, does not mean that they will at some time or other, either frivolously or going about it in a well planned methodical way, not try to get away or break out and in some cases become violent in the process.

I would say that the triple designation of these facilities at that time, was a good decision. I still think it's a good decision. It gives us the flexibility to use the facilities to the best means we can for the need we have. The Member will know that previous Ministers, going back as far as 1988, have said that part of the difficulty we have -- I can quote previous Ministers on this -- is that it is very difficult to plan for using facilities when the intake of young offenders fluctuates so much. Triple designation was the solution we thought would best work and we think it has been well received by the staff. It certainly gives us the flexibility we need to use what is sometimes very under-utilized staff and facilities. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister indicated that sometimes there's no way we can wipe out these types of incidents. I'm coming from the viewpoint that I recognize that no facility can wipe out incidents such as the type that I've mentioned in this House however, there are methods that can be used in attempting to avoid these types of incidents. That's the point I'm trying to bring to the Minister.

Mr. Speaker, I know he has deemed one particular facility to look after three types of young offenders and he's now saying that his report will back this up. But I'm telling him of actual incidents that will not justify his decision. I'd like to ask the Minister, why didn't he provide that report in October, as he stated in this House on April 1, and only now on November 29, does he plan to table it? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I think the question would have me arrive at the door of River Ridge. The manager of River Ridge was asked to provide comments and a report of some form so that the good Member for Thebacha would have the substance of a report earlier on this fall. It's taken a little bit of work in coaxing, and some refinement in the writing to develop this report and it's now here. There is a lot of other work that goes on in the government and the department. The report is here so the Members can have a look at it. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Question 117-12(4): Status Report On River Ridge Young Offender Facility
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Question 118-12(4): Method Of Giving Out Information On Tainted Blood
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to direct my question to the Minister of Health. Last week, Mr. Speaker, on Thursday, I was listening to the National News. There was a report done with regard to tainted blood between 1975 and 1980. The report stated it doesn't take much to be infected with HIV. I'd like to ask the Minister whether there is a public awareness being done with regard to people during that period of time going to Edmonton for emergency surgery, or other surgery who received blood and whether those people are informed. They should be tested to ensure they are not infected by that tainted blood.

Question 118-12(4): Method Of Giving Out Information On Tainted Blood
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 118-12(4): Method Of Giving Out Information On Tainted Blood
Question 118-12(4): Method Of Giving Out Information On Tainted Blood
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, recently Health Ministers across Canada made a commitment to have a program in place to help those people who have been infected or had relatives who had been infected. Right now the Canadian Blood Agency is the agency that will be administering that program.

We are aware of people in the Northwest Territories who have contracted the HIV virus by either blood products or by transfusion. Dr. Kinloch was in Ottawa last week and I'm awaiting his report from the Canadian Blood Agency. Some provinces have 1-800 numbers, others have advertising campaigns. We've collated all those methods of getting the message out and we'll be making a decision next week as to the tact that the Northwest Territories should take in getting the message out.

I would point out it is our policy that if there is somebody in the Northwest Territories who feels that by some means or another they have had a chance to have a brush with the HIV virus, they merely have to go to the health centre, to the hospital or to their doctor and we will arrange for them to get tested, Mr. Speaker. There are some people who may have gone to a hospital in southern Canada where they may have had a blood transfusion or blood products, and sometimes they might not have known that has happened. That's the message we have to get out to those people is that if you feel you are in that category, if it's within that particular time frame, then please arrange with us to get tested. As I said, Mr. Speaker, we will have that advertising campaign available next week. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 118-12(4): Method Of Giving Out Information On Tainted Blood
Question 118-12(4): Method Of Giving Out Information On Tainted Blood
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Renewable Resources. Over the years there have been a lot of questions in this Assembly and a lot of concerns raised by people in the Northwest Territories about the status of the Northwest Territories Wildlife Act. With the settlement of land claims, it is now time that the government has to take some action to revise the Northwest Territories Wildlife Act. What is this government doing to revise the Northwest Territories Wildlife Act?

Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Kakfwi.

Return To Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I understand the Wildlife Act, specifically to recognize and implement the Inuvialuit Final Agreement, has been submitted to the legislative process just recently, with the full agreement of the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation. This has been something that's been worked on for at least the last six years that I've been around. The status of that is now we have agreement on the exact legislative changes and wording that should go into amendments to the Wildlife Act. Those have been submitted to the Department of Justice to draft and submit. Thank you.

Return To Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. That only covers one group of people. However, there are other land claims that have been settled, TFN claim, the Gwich'in claim and the Sahtu Dene/Metis claim is awaiting federal approval. So, what's happening with these other claimant groups and the revisions to the Wildlife Act that pertain to their claims and other people, the Metis people, the South Slave and Deh Cho?

Supplementary To Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Kakfwi.

Supplementary To Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I'll have to take the question as notice. I do know that there was some urgency dealing with these specific provisions for the Inuvialuit final agreement. Whether this department is looking at, or contemplating, a legislative proposal to do full-scale revisions or revamping of the Wildlife Act is not known to me at this time, so I'll have to take the question as notice. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Question 119-12(4): Revision Of Wildlife Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

I'd like to remind Ministers that if a question is taken as notice, it's not necessary to give a long speech as to why. It should be short and concise. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last week, from November 22 until November 25, there was a major conference held in the city called, Keeping the Circle Strong. There were several major themes discussed at this conference. One was solvent abuse, the second one was fetal alcohol syndrome, the third was suicide and addictions. I'd like to ask the Minister responsible for Social Services, could she indicate the degree to which the government was involved in supporting and funding this conference?

Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Mike.

Return To Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The department provided $40,000 for travel assistance through Northern Addiction Services. Thank you.

Return To Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thanks, Mr. Speaker. I noted in the program, Mr. Speaker, that this conference was not to deal with difficulties and problems, it was going to discuss solutions and things that would work, and are prone to work. The theme was where do we go from here? What solutions emerged from this conference, with regard to the main theme of the conference since the government was a major player and this was sponsored by the Northern Addiction Services? What came out of the conference that would indicate where we go from here to solve these three major problems.

Supplementary To Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Mike.

Further Return To Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the topics of fetal alcohol syndrome, suicide and solvent abuse, discussions took place at the Keeping the Circle Strong conference. The discussions and recommendations that might arise from that conference will be integrated into the Social Services strategic plan for alcohol and drug programs. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Since most of the people there were on the staff of the Department of Social Services, or at least an agency related to Social Services, could the Minister indicate what kind of recommendations came out of that conference, with regard to the solutions to these three major problems? What were they?

Supplementary To Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Mike.

Supplementary To Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The majority of participants of that conference are employees of agencies at the local level, working as alcohol and drug workers, but not employees of the department. I will have to take his question as notice because I have not had the chance to discuss the recommendations. It usually takes a few months for the information to be gathered and weeded out within the department. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Question 120-12(4): GNWT Involvement In Keeping The Circle Strong In Northern Communities Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Again I'll remind Ministers, if the question is taken as notice, just take it as notice. There isn't need for a lengthy explanation. The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

Question 121-12(4): Request For Grade 11 In Arctic Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of Education. Last year, the community of Arctic Bay requested that their grade level be extended. They were refused by the Minister because they were too late with their request. Now they have another petition to acquire grade 11 in their community. Does the Minister have the request by the community of Arctic Bay? Thank you.

Question 121-12(4): Request For Grade 11 In Arctic Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 121-12(4): Request For Grade 11 In Arctic Bay
Question 121-12(4): Request For Grade 11 In Arctic Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I'm just trying to understand what the question was. The request has come in, however, and I did indicate to the community that, while the request is made to me, there is still a need for the community to work with the divisional board of education so there are plans, when the organizational work is done through the divisional board. And, they can ensure that the appropriate accommodation for students and the staffing are addressed in their divisional board planning as well.

Return To Question 121-12(4): Request For Grade 11 In Arctic Bay
Question 121-12(4): Request For Grade 11 In Arctic Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education. In his Minister's statement, on page two...First of all, I would like to say that I commend the Minister for initiating a decentralization program. I'm not criticizing that at all. All I'm saying is, I've had this experience myself, a few years back, when I applied for a position as an adult educator and I was not offered that because I did not have a certificate. The advertisement stated, if the person is not certified he cannot be given a job training program. I was not allowed to take the on-the-job training program because the government said I was qualified. So, both ways I could not get in.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is, are these people who are taking this decentralization training given a certificate upon completion?

Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that is happening. Most of the individuals involved in this job training initiative will be certified for their studies.

Return To Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Supplementary To Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Still on page two, the Minister indicated that the trainees from Rankin Inlet are due to finish in December, however in Fort Simpson, trainees will not be completed until 1995. On the last page, it says that the Minister will be giving a detailed placement report once all the courses are completed. Is he saying that we will not be able to hear about placement of Rankin Inlet students until 1995?

Supplementary To Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I believe that a question requesting information is always in order in the House. I'm not saying, at this particular time, if they ask for information, they won't be provided that information.

Further Return To Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Supplementary To Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to be absolutely clear that we want to participate in encouraging decentralization trainees to do well, et cetera. Is the Minister saying that no matter what kind of questions we ask -- if we ask for any kind of interim report on how well they are doing, and if they are being placed and things like that -- we will not be answered?

Supplementary To Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to the honourable Member that there is nothing in the report that suggests that no interim reports would be made available. In fact, if anything, I would be most pleased to make a statement in the House articulating quite clearly the successes we've had with decentralization training.

What is indicated on page three is the detail placement report. In other words, the overall result of the training and the placement of all people who have been part of the decentralization training. That is what is suggested there. On the interim report, I would be only too pleased, along with my colleagues, to make Members aware of the success we've had with the placement of those individual training programs for each particular community, once those are concluded and once placements have taken place.

Further Return To Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Question 122-12(4): Minister's Statement On Decentralization Training
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Ng.

Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement, I have already pointed out my concerns regarding what I see as the lack of initiative on the part of the government to ensure that our renewable resource commercial quotas are maximized. My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. I would like to know if he still feels that a policy isn't required to ensure that we maximize our commercial quotas in our NWT institutions?

Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't know whether it is just a coincidence or mental telepathy, but earlier this morning I had a meeting with some fisherman from Hay River who were expressing the same concern that was expressed by our colleague from the Kitikmeot.

I believe earlier last year when I was an ordinary Member, I had written on the same issue. Perhaps, if it still is a problem, as it appears to be, it is time for a territorial-wide policy to ensure that the government -- and particularly government institutions -- are utilizing all the products. After my discussions with the Hay River people, I have asked the department to take a look at whether it is part of the menu planning for Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, the YCC, the education facilities, et cetera, and, if it isn't, why isn't it.

So, perhaps, now is an opportune time to look at a territorial-wide policy and I want to assure the Member that it was a priority for me in February of last year and it is certainly a priority for me today. Thank you.

Return To Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

I just wanted to clarify this, you are committing to developing a policy on behalf of the government? Is that correct?

Supplementary To Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

John Todd Keewatin Central

I will check to see in fact if there is a policy in place and, if there isn't, I'm suggesting to you that I agree with you that we need to take a look at one. I will commit to it, yes, absolutely. It is absurd if our government institutions aren't utilizing the renewable resources, whether it is white fish, char, caribou or whatever.

It seems to me to be incumbent upon the government to find the mechanism for that to be on the menus, if you want, of these institutions. Yes, Mr. Speaker. I will undertake, if there is no policy in place, to develop one and bring it forward. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Question 123-12(4): Policy To Maximize Commercial Quotas
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wasn't able to attend the conference I referred to earlier, Keeping the Circle Strong, last week. But I did get a briefing on it. I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Social Services, in light of public comments made by Dr. Wheeler on the issue of people with alcohol syndrome, that this was not being treated as a social or moral issue, but that it was a health issue. I would like to ask the Minister of Social Services if this is, in fact, the position of the government on fetal alcohol syndrome?

Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Mike.

Return To Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Speaker, I think the Department of Health and Social Services both have roles regarding fetal alcohol syndrome. Because it is alcohol-related, the department can assist through the alcohol and drug agencies in the communities that are funded by Social Services. It can be tackled through local agencies and local authorities. On the prevention side, I think it is also the responsibility of the Department of Health. Thank you.

Return To Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, to return to Dr. Wheeler's public statement, as a member of the planning committee for this major international conference. People came from all over the states to attend, too. I would like to ask the Minister, in the case where a woman has already had one fetal alcohol syndrome child and is carrying a second child and continues to drink, is that a health issue or a social and moral issue?

Supplementary To Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Mike.

Further Return To Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is all three.

Further Return To Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

So, Mr. Speaker, you would disagree then, with Dr. Wheeler's statement that this is a health issue and not a social or moral issue? Would you agree with the public statement he made last week?

Supplementary To Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The question is not the Minister's opinion, it is whether or not it is government policy. Minister Mike.

Further Return To Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Speaker, at the present time, Social Services does not have any policy relating to Mr. Lewis' question. However, if he is asking for my personal opinion, I think it is a moral issue and it is a health issue. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Question 124-12(4): Department's Involvement In Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 244

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am rising on behalf of the Ordinary Members' Caucus to thank the Government Leader for the report on ministerial travel which was circulated to Members through our chairperson Friday. I will table it at the appropriate time. However, Mr. Speaker, Members noted that despite the request made through our chairperson that all ministerial travel be reported on, the travel report did not contain any information about home travel.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Government Leader is, since home travel is paid for out of the executive budget and since it comes under the category of the Ministers' offices, I wonder if the Government Leader would agree that a full report of ministerial travel should include home travel as well as duty travel?

Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, home travel is not considered ministerial travel. It is a budget that is allocated to individuals who take a Cabinet post. There is an allocation of funds. It has not been considered as ministerial travel. Members of Cabinet are allowed to spend a certain amount, equivalent to 32 trips a year on scheduled rates. It is not considered as ministerial travel. Thank you.

Return To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Premier not agree that the money comes from the ministerial budget and is part of the budget of the Department of the Executive and, therefore, can be seen as ministerial travel?

Supplementary To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the home travel budget for individual Members of Cabinet is not ministerial travel. It is a benefit and an allocation of funds to go home a certain number of times a year. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, the Premier is aware of the ordinary Members' interest in finding out what Ministers have been doing and where they have been going. In the interest of improving accountability and communication, and since this travel takes place while Ministers are employed as Ministers from their budgets that are spent under the authority of the Premier, could I have the commitment of the Government Leader that whether the travel is considered duty travel, ministerial travel or home travel, in the interest of reporting fully on the activities of her Ministers for the purpose of accountability of the Ordinary Members' Committee, could I have the undertaking that we will also get a report on Ministers' home travel, so we can know where they have been and where they have been going at all times? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I don't know where this is leading us to. When I was requested for Ministers' travel, my understanding was that you wanted to know what we were doing as Ministers, which trips we took in the line of duty. I know it was circulated. I intend to table it today. Home travel was not included. Home travel is for that specific purpose only. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I know it was not intended to be tabled because we haven't got the information. Since this is part of a Minister's performance and part of a Minister's activity, in order to get the full picture of what Ministers are doing and where they are, would the Premier agree that the full report would include both duty travel and home travel and will she commit to providing us with the records -- which I know exist -- of home travel to complete the picture for ordinary Members? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, it was not my understanding that home travel was part of an individual's performance. It is a benefit that allows an individual Cabinet Minister to go home and visit his/her constituency to be able to keep in contact with where they live. It is not part of the performance. It was never intended to be. It is a benefit that was given to Cabinet Ministers. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Question 125-12(4): Omission Of Home Travel In Ministerial Travel Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, last spring during session, I had asked the Minister to undertake a study to determine whether or not the western Arctic leadership program in Fort Smith was deemed to be justified for the amount of funds expended by this government. He was going

to do a study and provide the Members with the results of this study. Has this study been completed? Thank you.

Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The review of that particular program is near completion, and the final report should be made available to me by the end of December.

Return To Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, the Minister has indicated he won't get the study until the end of December. We won't be into session until the middle of February when we do the operation and maintenance budget. In the event that the report deems the funds not to be justified -- but I believe the funds are justified for such an expenditure -- would the Minister make a commitment to provide me with a copy of that particular report once it is completed? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. The report is for my consideration of the necessity and value of the program. All the recommendations in that particular report may not be acceptable to me as Minister and may not reflect some of the directions that we are going to undertake. The problem with releasing the report is some of the decisions that I may be recommending may be questioned. I may not agree with the recommendations that have been proposed, but I am prepared to report back to the honourable Member on the decisions that we are going to undertake with that particular report.

Further Return To Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, is the Minister stating -- in his way of expressing himself -- that he is not willing to share the report with me? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

No, Mr. Speaker. The report was a report to give me some indication of the value of the western Arctic leadership program. The important element was whether there was a need for us to continue with the program, to improve it or to go in a different direction. The problem is that there may be many options. While I agree with my honourable colleague that she has a position on this particular matter, my colleagues on this side also have a differing view with what I consider to be the value of utilizing our funds for education. In light of that, I may not agree with all the findings that are in the report. After consideration by myself as Minister, the department and also with my colleagues, we may come to the conclusion that the recommendations that have been proposed may not be the ones we would like to follow, as has been the case in previous reports. There have been some reports that have been done by my colleagues, and they have not always been followed in terms of the recommendations. I wanted the honourable Member to be aware of that. As soon as I get the approval of my colleagues, I am prepared to share any of the findings with my honourable colleague.

Further Return To Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Question 126-12(4): Status Of Report On Western Arctic Leadership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, under whose jurisdiction the question about search and rescue would come. I made a statement earlier on about the efforts to rescue the crash victims of that hercules near Alert a couple of years ago. It is believed by many people that a much more efficient or effective rescue effort could have been made had local people been utilized. Resolute Bay is not that far away and other communities in that area could have provided people who know the land and know how to go out in that type of weather could have been quite effective in that search and rescue. But, unfortunately, they weren't used and I'm not sure if that was a contributing factor to the tragedy itself. I'd like to ask the Minister responsible whether or not we are involved in search and rescue. Are we part of a team or rescue effort in situations I just described when aircraft and even local people go missing? Are we involved? Are we consulted in this matter?

Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The Minister of MACA or the Minister of Justice. Minister of MACA.

Return To Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In search and rescue, the primary responsibility -- and I stress primary -- is the R.C.M.P. The GNWT is working with communities at the present time to organize search and rescue committees under local emergency response committees. I don't think there is any doubt -- whether it was that large tragedy just out of Resolute Bay or the current situation we have in Mr. Arngna'naaq's riding -- that there's a need to reassess what we're doing with respect to emergency measures and rescue.

It's my contention in the short time I've had this department that we should perhaps be doing a great deal more. One of the things that I'm asking the department to pursue is the possibility of coordinating some of the work with the R.C.M.P., the local emergency measures group and the hunters and trappers, at least in the east. I think it's similar in the west.

The other area that perhaps isn't as coordinated as well as it could be is in the military rangers. It's my hope that we can come forward with a more coordinated approach to this. We should propose, at the territorial, regional and community level, some key groups of people and put plans in place. At the present time, it's my understanding -- for example, in the Arviat situation we currently have -- that it is being coordinated through the community and being coordinated by the R.C.M.P., the hunters and trappers, the municipal council and volunteers. Thank you.

Return To Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. After reading the accounts of the events that took place in October 1991, it seemed that perhaps there was a lack of coordination. We had people coming from all over the place: Alaska; Greenland; Trenton, Ontario; and, Alberta. They seemed to come from all over the place except the Northwest Territories. I just wonder if a protocol needs to be established, or at least begun with the various people who we need to be establishing these kind of agreements with the military, for example, or the RCMP. Is there something official that we need to do to establish a protocol with these agencies to participate at a moments notice? Is something like that already under way, Mr. Speaker?

Supplementary To Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Todd.

Further Return To Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

John Todd Keewatin Central

I am advised that there is a program that's called the New Initiatives Program which is administered by the National Search and Rescue Secretariat and that there is a proposal right now to fund a comprehensive land and marine search and rescue training program. This project would allow the R.C.M.P. and the GNWT to develop a trained complement of searchers in communities and regions across the territories. I suspect it's come about because of some of the major catastrophes, as Mr. Whitford addressed earlier today. There is an effort in place by those involved -- whether it's the military, the RCMP or the GNWT -- to try to fund an overall sort of approach to search and rescue, particularly in the areas of major catastrophes. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Question 127-12(4): Local Involvement In Search And Rescue Procedures
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Involvement In Search For Arviat Hunter
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's much along the same line as Mr. Whitford's questions to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, but more specific to the case in the Arviat. I'd like to know what the government's role has been in the search for Sam Napayok in Arviat. Thank you.

Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Involvement In Search For Arviat Hunter
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Todd.

Return To Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Role In Search For Arviat Hunter
Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Involvement In Search For Arviat Hunter
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

John Todd Keewatin Central

Let me first say, Mr. Speaker, this is a difficult and somewhat emotional issue because I know Sam Napayok personally. I think I would like to start by saying that I'd like to commend the community, particularly the people in the community, for their efforts so far. The role of the department, through the regional director, is to try to coordinate the search efforts that are currently going on with the RCMP, the hunters and trappers and volunteers throughout the region.

It's my understanding that this has probably been one of the most extensive searches that we've had in the region for a long, long time. The RCMP have been in there, aircraft have been used and sniffing dogs have been in the community. The hunters and trappers and volunteers from Rankin, Baker and Coral Harbour are in Arviat at the present time, still searching. I'm told, by the intervention of our MP and colleague from Nunavut, Mr. Anawak, that the military was in there yesterday and today and are doing some air searches at this time. That's the status at this time.

As far as the department is concerned, the policy is that there is $1,000 or $2,000 immediate financial assistance to assist the local groups in doing a ground search. There is no policy, as such, to determine what we do beyond that at the present time.

Return To Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Role In Search For Arviat Hunter
Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Involvement In Search For Arviat Hunter
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Supplementary To Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Role In Search For Arviat Hunter
Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Involvement In Search For Arviat Hunter
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand that this has been a very extensive search for Mr. Napayok. At one point they were using metal detectors. In the first few days the hamlet council had assumed a debt of at least $15,000 to support the search in the community. That's on top of the funds that were raised by the family in the community. I'd like to know if the department or if the government of the Northwest Territories will be able to assist the hamlet with the costs that they have incurred. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Role In Search For Arviat Hunter
Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Involvement In Search For Arviat Hunter
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Todd.

Further Return To Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Role In Search For Arviat Hunter
Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Involvement In Search For Arviat Hunter
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

John Todd Keewatin Central

As I said earlier, along with my colleague, I'd like to commend the community for their efforts. There's no question that they've been very supportive of the need to find both the financial and the personal resources to try to find Mr. Napayok. I've instructed the department to see where we can possibly assist beyond the current policy and that is being negotiated, or discussed -- I would prefer to say -- by the municipal government and the department at this time. We are tracking this on a daily basis. I believe, as I said earlier, that the military aircraft was in Arviat yesterday and they did some searching today. Where it is all going to lead to, I don't know at this time. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Role In Search For Arviat Hunter
Question 128-12(4): GNWT's Involvement In Search For Arviat Hunter
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Ng.

Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health. A few months ago there was an advertisement for policy officer trainees. I believe one was for the east and one was for the west. I just wanted to find out from the Minister, what the status was on those two positions.

Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Pollard.

Return To Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 247

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I know that the position for the western part of the territories has been filled. I believe the eastern one is still vacant, sir.

Return To Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

I wanted to ask if the position was filled with an aboriginal person.

Supplementary To Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Pollard.

Further Return To Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, the position was filled with a person who is of aboriginal descent, that is correct.

Further Return To Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Question 129-12(4): Policy Officer Positions
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Question 130-12(4): Assistance For Development Corporations In Gjoa Haven And Taloyoak
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the honourable Minister responsible for Economic Development and Tourism. Knowing that the Minister is a great proponent of community hire and the community development corporations...Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to extend the question period after this -- There is a community...

---Laughter

Question 130-12(4): Assistance For Development Corporations In Gjoa Haven And Taloyoak
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Question period is extended. Please proceed with the next part of your agenda, Mr. Ningark.

---Laughter

Question 130-12(4): Assistance For Development Corporations In Gjoa Haven And Taloyoak
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, colleagues, and thank you, Mr. Speaker. Now we have a development corporation in Taloyoak by the name of Boothia, which is very anxious to expand and prosper. I also have a request from the community of Gjoa Haven to create a community development corporation. Mr. Speaker, community development corporations are known to hire local people. It is an initiative to train local people. It is an initiative that ensures that money stays within the community.

A community development corporation does not, Mr. Speaker, import their staff. Usually, they hire people from the community unless there is a specialized person needed to help the community. Now, Mr. Speaker, my question to the honourable Minister is, will the honourable Minister do everything in his power to provide financial assistance and any other assistance that may be required by the people of Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak, who are in the process of expanding and starting a development corporation? Thank you.

Question 130-12(4): Assistance For Development Corporations In Gjoa Haven And Taloyoak
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 130-12(4): Assistance For Development Corporations In Gjoa Haven And Taloyoak
Question 130-12(4): Assistance For Development Corporations In Gjoa Haven And Taloyoak
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to assure the honourable Member, that as a strong supporter of aboriginal people in the private sector, I encourage the development of what I call private sector development corporations.

I would advise him that I did speak with the mayor from Gjoa Haven and we are currently having discussions about how we can assist them in bringing forward some kind of group that would represent the economic interests of that community. I'm confident we'll be able to move quickly on that and certainly, in the new year, we should be in a position to provide them with the kind of assistance we are currently negotiating.

On the Taloyoak situation, I have been working for the last four or five months on a significant proposal coming from that community. I'm confident that we can come to some satisfactory conclusion that will: one, put an asset base in that community that is owned and operated by the people; two, provide the kind of services that Taloyoak is sadly lacking; and three, will ultimately provide a dividend flow for the children and the shareholders.

Return To Question 130-12(4): Assistance For Development Corporations In Gjoa Haven And Taloyoak
Question 130-12(4): Assistance For Development Corporations In Gjoa Haven And Taloyoak
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a whole pile of questions about the Keeping the Circle Strong conference that was held between November 25 and November 26. Since Mr. Pollard is here today and he won't be with us for the rest of the week, and since he is the Minister of Health, I would like to ask him a question.

Last week, on Friday, Dr. Wheeler was introduced as a government spokesperson. He made the comment that FAS is not a social or moral issue, it is a health issue. I would like to ask the Minister of Health, does Dr. Wheeler have it right? Is this the policy of the government, that FAS is a health issue and a health issue alone?

Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 248

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, to my knowledge, there isn't a policy in this government that states the words of Dr. Wheeler that Health is totally responsible for or that fetal alcohol syndrome is totally the responsibility of the Department of Health. I would agree with my colleague that this is an issue that goes across both departments.

Mr. Speaker, a woman may be having problems with alcohol and dealing with Social Services in getting assistance, et cetera. When that person becomes pregnant, Mr. Speaker, then she is not only affecting herself, she is affecting her fetus. That becomes a health problem because we are concerned about the healthy baby. The doctor may counsel that particular person on their diet, on the use of drugs, on the use of prescription drugs, on the use of alcohol and on a number of other issues that may affect the health of the mother and the baby.

Mr. Speaker, if the lady keeps drinking and it affects the baby, then it is a health issue for us and it, ultimately, becomes a social problem because we have somebody who is born into this world without the capabilities to function as well as he or she might have, had the mother led a healthy life and not drank during pregnancy.

I think it would be very difficult for me to agree with Dr. Wheeler, not that I like to disagree with doctors. But I would say that I cannot agree with him and I believe this crosses between both departments. It is a moral issue, a social issue and a health issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

I have the greatest respect for Dr. Wheeler. I would like to ask the Minister of Health, even though he has made this statement today in the House about his position, will he in fact undertake to get an official government position on this whole issue of fetal alcohol syndrome?

Supplementary To Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I will, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Question 131-12(4): Dr. Wheeler's Comments On Fas As A Health Issue
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Question 132-12(4): Cost Of Community Alcohol And Drug Workers' Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last spring I believe the Minister of Social Services and the department sponsored a conference of community alcohol and drug workers. I believe the Minister actually attended that conference sometime during the end of the last fiscal year. I would like to ask the Minister what was the cost was of that conference. Thank you.

Question 132-12(4): Cost Of Community Alcohol And Drug Workers' Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Mike.

Question 132-12(4): Cost Of Community Alcohol And Drug Workers' Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to get further clarification. Which conference is Mr. Patterson referring to? Thank you.

Question 132-12(4): Cost Of Community Alcohol And Drug Workers' Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson, a clarification.

Question 132-12(4): Cost Of Community Alcohol And Drug Workers' Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The conference brought together alcohol and drug workers from communities all across the Northwest Territories to Yellowknife. It was held in the Explorer Hotel. I believe the Minister attended. It was held near the end of the last fiscal year. Thank you.

Question 132-12(4): Cost Of Community Alcohol And Drug Workers' Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Mike.

Question 132-12(4): Cost Of Community Alcohol And Drug Workers' Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The alcohol and drug workers conference that was held at the end of March was held in annexes A, B and C in the Yellowknife Inn and not the Explorer Hotel, unless we're talking about two different conferences. I don't have the figures at the tip of my fingers. I will take the question as notice.

Question 132-12(4): Cost Of Community Alcohol And Drug Workers' Conference
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Question 133-12(4): Report Prepared On Fort Resolution Sawmill
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Last March 11, 1993, I put forward a written question to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism about the Fort Resolution sawmill. This question was made on March 24, 1993. I would like to quote part of the response: "Before being able to properly respond, an extensive search will have to be made. The exact nature of the documentation on the mill is unknown. Therefore, it is impossible, at this point in time, to provide even a time line as to when all of the information could be gathered and a proper response delivered. A summer student will be hired to research and write a report that can be used to respond. The information requested will be provided as soon as feasible." Was a summer student hired to research and prepare a report on this issue?

Question 133-12(4): Report Prepared On Fort Resolution Sawmill
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 133-12(4): Report Prepared On Fort Resolution Sawmill
Question 133-12(4): Report Prepared On Fort Resolution Sawmill
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, let me apologize to my colleague for the delay in response. I wasn't the Minister at the time, but I want to assure him that I will endeavour to answer his question of March by the end of this week. With respect to the fact of whether there was a student hired to do some research, I believe there was. I am optimistic and confident when I assure the Member that we can get the answer to his question regarding the history of the Fort Resolution sawmill by Friday.

Return To Question 133-12(4): Report Prepared On Fort Resolution Sawmill
Question 133-12(4): Report Prepared On Fort Resolution Sawmill
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Education. My question was to the Minister last week and also to the Minister of Finance about the school bussing policy. I have received an answer to my question regarding funding for school bussing policy, which stated by the Minister that the additional contribution of $268,000 to school boards for this year was in our supplementary appropriation. However, I do not see a breakdown of what the formula is. I would like to find out if the Minister of Education would be willing to provide me with the formula. Thank you.

Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The allocation that is being used NWT-wide is an average cost per student -- for $485 per student -- and it is also indexed to the cost of living differential for each community.

Return To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Supplementary To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for providing the information. I would like to find out from the Minister how it is determined how many students are eligible in a particular community.

Supplementary To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe I have answered that particular question a number of times. The criteria for bussing is to provide funding to the boards for students five and six years old if they lived 0.5 kilometres or more from the school, students from seven to ten years old if they lived one kilometre or more from school and students 11 and over if they lived 1.5 kilometres or more from school. These criteria are being used as guidelines and approval for contributions to the board.

Further Return To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Supplementary To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Who provides the number of students who are eligible in the school? Is it the divisional board or the government who determines that? Is it the education council? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, the decision and the determination is done through the divisional boards, with the advice of the community education councils.

Further Return To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Supplementary To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In speaking with the education council in Baker Lake, the information they received was that, in Baker Lake, there were only 48 students who were eligible for this particular funding. By calculating out the amounts that the Minister has just given, I do not know if the funds that will be allocated for the community of Baker Lake will suffice. I would like to know if there will be other funds made available to the communities, if so required.

Supplementary To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated previously, the whole purpose for the department and Cabinet agreeing to the criteria and guidelines for bussing across the Northwest Territories is to get the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment out of the business of bussing and to allow the communities and the divisional boards to make those decisions. What my colleagues have been supportive in is allowing us to provide the financial resources so that the boards can make those decisions. In that sense, I would recommend to the honourable Member that his best approach and the community's best solution would be to come to an agreement with the divisional board on the allocation of resources, including the per capita requirements for the community that he has identified.

Further Return To Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Question 134-12(4): Cost Per Student For School Bussing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Question 135-12(4): Western Premiers' Agreement On Reduction Of Internal Trade Barriers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, since the Sessional Statement and the budget statement talk a great deal about the need to preserve our fragile northern economy, negotiate contracts and provide enhanced incentives to northern businesses to avoid leakage of dollars to the south, I was very surprised to see the Premier's report on the western Premiers' conference today that Premiers and Government Leaders indicated their support for the continuation of multilateral federal/provincial/territorial negotiations on the reduction of internal trade barriers and the Northwest Territories is a participant in these negotiations. Isn't the reduction of internal trade barriers and free trade amongst western provinces and territories a great threat to the protection of our fragile, developing northern economy and incentives to northern businesses and the reduction of leakage that the government seems committed to? Thank you.

Question 135-12(4): Western Premiers' Agreement On Reduction Of Internal Trade Barriers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 135-12(4): Western Premiers' Agreement On Reduction Of Internal Trade Barriers
Question 135-12(4): Western Premiers' Agreement On Reduction Of Internal Trade Barriers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, in these discussions that take place in terms of internal trade, cross boundary trade and all of the issues relating to lowering barriers, I can give firm commitment to this House that the two issues we stressed very strongly in all of these meetings that we will not bend on, is our business incentive policy and our affirmative action. All of the western Premiers are fully aware that, in our continuing negotiations, these two very positive policy directions that we have for the Northwest Territories will continue to be affirmed in any agreement. Thank you.

Return To Question 135-12(4): Western Premiers' Agreement On Reduction Of Internal Trade Barriers
Question 135-12(4): Western Premiers' Agreement On Reduction Of Internal Trade Barriers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 250

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question 136-12(4): Status Of Superintendent Of Personnel Position, Fort Smith
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 251

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Personnel a question with regard to the Department of Personnel. Mr. Speaker, it has been practically a month since our superintendent of Personnel has moved from Fort Smith to Inuvik. There has been no indication of his position being advertised or filled. I'd like to ask the Minister of Personnel whether it is the intention of her department to fill the position of superintendent of personnel in Fort Smith? Thank you.

Question 136-12(4): Status Of Superintendent Of Personnel Position, Fort Smith
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 251

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Minister Mike.

Question 136-12(4): Status Of Superintendent Of Personnel Position, Fort Smith
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 251

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Speaker. I'll have to take the Member's question under notice. Thank you.

Question 136-12(4): Status Of Superintendent Of Personnel Position, Fort Smith
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 251

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Mr. Koe.

Written Question 16-12(4): Student Loan Agreement
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 251

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a written question for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Can the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment provide me with a copy of an agreement which is signed with students who received financial assistance from this government?

I am particularly interested in students who go to post-secondary educational institutions outside of the Northwest Territories.

Can the Minister also indicate as to the obligations of the students and the obligations of this government?

Written Question 16-12(4): Student Loan Agreement
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 251

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 6, written questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Written Question 17-12(4): Fort Smith Garage Purchases
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 251

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My written question is to the Minister of DPW.

Would the Minister of the Department of Public Works provide to this House a list of all purchases by the Department of Public Works required by the local garage in Fort Smith, from April 1, 1992 to present?

Would the Minister please ensure the list includes articles from whom these purchases were made and the cost of the items purchased? Thank you.

Written Question 17-12(4): Fort Smith Garage Purchases
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 251

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 6, written questions. Mr. Patterson.

Written Question 18-12(4): Ministers' Home Travel
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 251

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Premier.

Will the Premier table a report of Ministers' home travel undertaken during the period November 1991 to October 15, 1993, prior to the end of this current session and the mid-term review of Cabinet? Thank you.

Written Question 18-12(4): Ministers' Home Travel
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 251

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 6, written questions. Mr. Ng.

Written Question 19-12(4): Game And Fish Quotas List
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 251

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

My written question is to the Minister of Renewable Resources.

Will the Minister please provide the House with a listing of all commercial game and fish quotas in the NWT by community, species, number of animals, pounds of fish for the 1991-92, 1992-93 years and the current 1993-94 year? Can the Minister also list the amounts of the quotas utilized in the 1991-92 and 1992-93 years detailing for what purposes they were used?

Written Question 19-12(4): Game And Fish Quotas List
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 251

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 6, written questions. We'll take a short recess.

---SHORT RECESS

Written Question 19-12(4): Game And Fish Quotas List
Item 6: Written Questions

Page 251

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

I'll call the Assembly back to order after that delicious fish break. Item 7, returns to written questions. Mr. Morin.

Return To Written Question 10-12(4): Government Of The Northwest Territories' Houses
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 251

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to a written question asked by Mr. Dent on November 22, 1993, on the Government of the Northwest Territories' houses.

1. Yes, Cabinet Ministers were offered their housing unit at the appraised value in accordance with the Housing Strategy.

2. No Cabinet Ministers have taken advantage of that opportunity.

I have a second return, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to written question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on November 22, 1993, on staff housing units placed on the market.

Return To Written Question 9-12(4): Staff Housing Units Placed On Market
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 251

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

To date, no houses have been sold through the real estate agent in Fort Smith because no sales to the public have occurred.

In Fort Smith, the major emphasis in the implementation of the Housing Strategy has been to terminate leases of single family houses. Negotiations with the southern-based landlord have been successful and the lease on seven units has been terminated and the houses sold to employees by the landlord. Additional sales of this type are pending.

We have been able to transfer Arctic College students into vacant owned units from leased units, thereby making the leased units available for sale to the public by the landlord with eventual termination of the lease.

There is currently one vacant unit which is not suitable for student housing. It has been offered to the NWT Housing Corporation in accordance with the strategy. If the NWT Housing Corporation has no requirement, it will be sold through the local realtor.

Thank you.

Return To Written Question 9-12(4): Staff Housing Units Placed On Market
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 252

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 7, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Return To Written Question 9-12(4): Staff Housing Units Placed On Market
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 252

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, Return to Written Question 7-12(4), asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell to the Minister of Social Services concerning the new Social Services' organization chart.

Return To Written Question 7-12(4): New Social Services' Organization Chart
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 252

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

I am pleased to provide Members of the Assembly with the new headquarters organization charts for the Department of Social Services. I have also attached a copy of both the old and revised department program structure charts. These clearly show the change to tighter management structure and reduction of senior staff positions.

As reorganization has not yet been finalized, it is not appropriate to include names at this time.

Return To Written Question 7-12(4): New Social Services' Organization Chart
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 252

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, replies to budget address. Mr. Koe.

Item 9: Replies To Budget Address
Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Page 252

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Koe's Reply

Item 9: Replies To Budget Address
Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Page 252

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the House for the opportunity to reply to the budget address. I appreciate the work that the Minister of Finance is doing, given the financial situation of this government and that of the federal government. In the budget address, the Minister of Finance said a lot of the right things. For example, "to maximize northern business employment and training opportunities, capital priorities must be set, based on Legislative Assembly and community input. We want maximum benefits from government spending to accrue to northerners and we are committed to doing business in the Northwest Territories with northern business using northern labour."

Mr. Speaker, it is hard to argue statements like these because I firmly believe in these concepts. I also support the concept and policy of negotiating contracts. It would be nice, though, to live until the day that 100 per cent of all our construction, manufacturing, labour supply and transportation would be provided by northern companies and northern people. However, that is utopia, and I am a realist and a practical person. We have to do everything within our powers to ensure that what the Minister of Finance is saying, which is backed by Cabinet, happens. The responsibility for making these things happen rests with the Government of the Northwest Territories' bureaucracy. They are entrusted with the authority and responsibility to carry out the programs, policies and directions of government.

I am sure we all have stories of inefficiencies, mismanagement, lack of communication, et cetera, where projects do not happen the way people in the north envisage. In our system of government, we seem to accept these types of behaviour. When was the last time we saw a senior manager fired or dismissed for messing up? I am not talking about fraud or criminal behaviour; just for non-performance of duties. I believe the time has come when we, as northerners, cannot, and should not, put up with inappropriate behaviour and actions from our senior managers. They have to be accountable and responsible for their actions and the consequences.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make some comments on the capital planning process. The Standing Committee on Finance already commented that there is still a great deal of work necessary to refine the process. I fully agree with them. Communities are given a chance two, maybe three times a year, to review a five year plan. However, communities are not given an opportunity to review the plan with other communities in their region. They tend to work in isolation from their nearby communities. This should change and information should be exchanged, shared and discussed between communities, especially within a region.

The Minister of Finance stated that over 20 communities responded. At my last count, we have some 61 communities in the Northwest Territories, so the 20 communities make up about a 33 per cent success rate. We still have a great deal of work to do.

Mr. Speaker, I have spoken to the Minister of Finance and other Ministers on the issue of fairness and equity of dividing up the capital money to ensure various communities and regions get a fair share of the action. This issue concerns me, and I have stated it before in this House. Many regions, especially my region and the Beaufort/Delta area, are now economically depressed. There are no more mega-projects, so these areas rely very heavily on government initiatives. Therefore, as a representative of the region, I have to push to get an equitable share of the capital money.

In terms of the capital plan, I wish to state that the five year plan is favourable for my constituency of Inuvik. However, there is still a great deal of work and consultation required to shape the plans and get the appropriate timing of the various projects. One of the major concerns, which will have an impact on capital building projects in Inuvik, is the existing utilidor system. Currently, all government buildings use high temperature hot water heating provided by the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. There are plans, within the next two to five years, to eliminate this heating system. This means that all existing buildings and any new ones will have to have alternative heating systems, most likely oil-burning boiler systems. We have to plan for this eventuality and determine the impact upon our capital and O and M costs. Mr. Speaker, I also fear that now is the time when we should look at other energy alternatives. Perhaps now is the time to brush up on all of the old studies on using gas as an energy source for the Delta.

I stated earlier the five year capital plan is favourable for Inuvik. However, there are a couple of projects which are missing and should be included in the next version of the plan. There are requirements for a senior citizens' facility and a new correctional centre. There has been a great deal of discussion and support for these two projects from organizations in Inuvik. Their priority is to build a senior citizens' home.

In all of the capital budget, which we are expected to approve this session, it only includes money for the fiscal year of 1994-95. However, people in the communities, once they submit their five year capital plan and wish list, expect the government to commit to these projects, which are included in the plan. My suggestion is that, in the current budget book, all of the projects listed on the five year plans should be identified, by some means, to ensure residents of the North that their projects are being considered and are included in the plan.

We are all aware that what we agree on today may change tomorrow or within the five year period. Within our system, this is more likely because of the rotating Ministers and the life of each Assembly, which is four years. What has been agreed on by one person today may not necessarily be the position or priority or wish of another person tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, I would like to thank the Standing Committee on Finance for allowing me to participate in their meetings and I'd like to thank the Ministers for their support in working with, and listening to, the various organizations and citizens of Inuvik when dealing with Capital Budgets and other issues. I'm especially appreciative of the Ministers who have made visits to Inuvik and the region. Mahsi cho, qujannamiik.

---Applause

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Item 9, replies to budget address. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Gargan's Reply

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to reply to the budget address because I'm not on the Standing Committee on Finance and so this is the only time I would be given the opportunity to express my appreciation to the government and also to look at a list of things I hope I can accomplish before the next election.

Mr. Speaker, one of the principles that this Assembly must accept and practice, besides fair equity, is also the principle we demand as human beings that all communities deserve to have their physical, their mental, their spiritual well-being addressed. In doing so, we address as government, the whole aspect of community life and the basic infrastructure that comes with that development.

Mr. Speaker, during the last few years, things have been happening at a fairly slow pace in my constituency, especially in my community. It's not because of a lack of commitment from this government, nor is it because I haven't been persistent in fighting for the community. It's that a lot of other communities the size of mine still have to do catch-up work in those areas. I have been very quiet, in order for those constituencies to be able to get all of the infrastructure that is required, in order to address the three principles that I've referred to, their physical, mental and spiritual well-being.

I want to thank the government for the new senior citizens' home that is now in place in Hay River and also the alcohol and drug treatment centre that was just completed this summer.

Mr. Speaker, a lot of things that are happening at the community level, we do address, but a lot of things are happening other than that. When I refer to the territorial infrastructure, I refer to the highway systems -- the transportation system. One of them is the Mackenzie River. Mr. Speaker, this summer I had the opportunity to spend about a month on the river and look at different sites, including historical sites. In a lot of cases along the Mackenzie, there are a number of sites that probably could be restored. Boats could also be restored and put in a central location for people. There was a fair-sized wooden boat, named the Vancouver, at Axepoint. It's in fairly good shape, but this is one area in which I've looked around. I see that there are a lot of good historical things that might be able to be restored.

The other thing is, in Fort Providence itself, there is an old wooden ferry boat that I would like the government to look at seeing whether or not it could be restored.

The third thing that I'd like to talk about is the Mackenzie Highway. Mr. Whitford, in his Member's statement today talked about state-of-the-art, high-tech equipment for rescue. We don't have any kind of emergency response system on the Mackenzie River itself, Mr. Speaker. Most of the equipment that is in storage to address this is in the major centres. Any time there is an emergency situation on the river, we really don't have the equipment nor the manpower to address them. I would hope that, in the years to come, this government will look at the long-forecast plan so that we do have the emergency response team, as well as equipment, in place so that any time there is a situation, we would be able to respond as fast as we can and refer to places like Fort Providence, Fort Good Hope and Inuvik as areas in which those teams could be established.

The other thing, Mr. Speaker, that I also want to touch on is -- I wrote to the Government Leader, she is aware of this, but again, due to the lack of money, the commitment isn't there to do anything. Just as any highway system has campgrounds and parks, I would hope that we would be able to establish those kinds of facilities along the Mackenzie River, too. In my travels, I've also found that a lot of the sites to which people go are usually those that are accessible. You can land with comfort on the shores and be able to set up camp and have enough wood around. Anywhere that you have those kinds of sites, normally people will target them as areas to camp. What I find, too, is that you don't have to look far in the backs of those places to find garbage laying all over the place. Most of the people that go along the river will look for the most easily-accessible way of setting up camp and getting wood.

One of the things that happened this summer, Mr. Speaker, is that we have a tourist facility at Lady Evelyn Falls. I understand that Economic Development is going to be taking on tourism and parks. I'd like to ask the Minister if, during next summer's tourist season, he will target Kakisa for maintaining and getting the personnel from the community to maintain that facility at Lady Evelyn Falls.

Mr. Speaker, one area in which I have run into some problems in the communities, but which could be addressed, is with regard to the basic infrastructure in the communities. I understand that in the community of Fort Providence, there is a fire hall that's going to be built. Digaa Enterprises in Providence was very interested in taking on that project, on the understanding that they would build the project and lease it back to the government on a 20 year basis. This was not quite acceptable to this government, at this point in time. I don't know what the reasons are behind it, except to say that we do have 20 year leases with this government in other areas. Residential accommodation is one area in which this government has been willing to move.

But, with regard to fire halls, nursing stations and that, this government hasn't been very supportive. I would like to look at why I think, Mr. Speaker, it is in the best interests of this government to consider this arrangement. I think the situation right now is -- where we do have money problems -- that it is in the government's best interest to look at communities and the banks building these facilities.

As long as they see a 20 year lease, we'll be able to finance any kind of infrastructure in the communities. Mr. Speaker, it will perhaps save this government $500,000 next summer if we look at arranging 20 year leases. It also comes to the questions of ownership. Regardless of whether or not the hamlet is responsible for those buildings, the government still owns those buildings until the 20 years are up. There is nothing wrong with having an arrangement where such agreements can be reached. If, during that 20 year period, the Digaa says, we've cancelled your lease, or something to that effect, there is nothing wrong with having a clause in those agreements so that we allow those 20 year leases to happen.

The other problem I have, with regard to basic infrastructure, is that I don't know what the basic percentage is for the communities, in terms of putting in their own money for recreation facilities, for example. In 1983, an arena was built which also included a community hall, after I made the point that it is better to build two structures in one. What happened was, the community paid $250,000. They raised that much money to cover their percentage of the cost. But, if you look at the budget and the recoveries, there doesn't seem to be that much happening in other areas.

I don't know whether it is an oversight on my part, but I think a lot of communities are treated differently depending on where they are. In all fairness, I would perhaps like to see some percentage of recoveries that reflects how much the communities have put into basic infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, most of the communities have what is known as walk-in freezers. When I got re-elected two years ago, I made a motion in this House that the government support the community of Kakisa for walk- in freezers. But there was a delay because there was a policy being developed between Municipal and Community Affairs and Renewable Resources. To this day, Mr. Speaker, I don't know what the result of that policy is. There seems to have been very little done with regard to this policy. I'm asking that the government consider either establishing a walk-in freezer or the other alternative that was suggested, buying freezers for those families that are still heavily into hunting and trapping.

Another problem that I have, Mr. Speaker, is with regard to regional consultation and regional responsibilities. Fort Providence is one community where we seem to be dealing with both Fort Simpson and Fort Smith. One of the biggest problems is that, for the economic development tourism area, we deal with Fort Smith. They don't have a representative on the tourism board, nor do they have a representative when it comes to funding proposals and such. The community has been experiencing a lot of problems with the south Slave economic development board in that area.

The other thing is, we have students that go to school in Fort Simpson. I have no problem with that. I think one of the closest communities is Hay River. I understand that the students that are going to school from Fort Resolution and Hay River are doing excellently. In fact, they like that arrangement. For the purposes of the parents though, I would like to ask this government to look at the possibility -- since Fort Providence is in sort of a limbo situation with regard to responsibility and I would prefer this myself, as a parent -- of having children going to school in Hay River as opposed to Fort Simpson. I'm only saying that because Jim is not here.

Mr. Speaker, the other thing I have a problem with is the closure of Akaitcho Hall. Most of the students who went to school since the student residence was built, went here. It goes back as far as 1960, when Akaitcho Hall was first built. A lot of people from all over the north went to Akaitcho Hall for their first residence. Naturally, most of them came out fairly good. A lot of them are in fairly good positions. I think the closure of Akaitcho Hall would really limit the students in their choices.

My main point is that I don't know if the students were ever consulted about the closure of Akaitcho Hall. The students I have spoken with don't seem to think that they mattered that much. Whatever decisions are made really aren't with their consultation. Just because they aren't of age, doesn't mean we shouldn't consult with them, especially students who are moving away from home, as adults. Perhaps they aren't adults as far as the voting age goes, but they are certainly adults with regard to making decisions. Once they start being independent, going away from their parents to go to school, I think they should be given the opportunity to make choices.

I haven't heard anything said about students being consulted. I would have preferred if the choice was made by the students to say that it is time we concentrated on regional high schools as opposed to centralized high schools. I think the centralized locations do have a lot more to offer to communities. In Fort Providence, if the choice for the students was to choose between Fort Simpson and Yellowknife, I do not know what their choice would be. But, certainly, I would encourage my own children to look at Yellowknife or Hay River as the option.

Mr. Speaker, I have nothing else further to say, except I would like to make a short statement on my church in Fort Providence. The church in Fort Providence is just about completed. The last time I talked with the Father was two Sundays ago.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Item 9, replies to budget address. Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Patterson's Reply

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to take this opportunity to say some positive things about the budget address and particularly the capital projects in my constituency and perhaps end on a note of constructive criticism.

Mr. Speaker, I want to acknowledge the extraordinary efforts that were undertaken to replace the Apex School after the loss by fire last year and thank Mr. Nerysoo and Mr. Morin, in particular, for the prompt work that was done to bring joy to the hearts of those students in Apex, who now see their new school closed in and undoubtedly ready for this coming fall. I also want to say, Mr. Speaker, that I am very pleased that money has been put in place and a commitment made to continue planning a new regional hospital in the Baffin region.

Just this morning, we heard concerns about the problems of mental patients wandering the streets of Iqaluit, a danger to themselves and sometimes other people. That is one of the many issues, along with chronic care, that I hope will be dealt with as we plan this new regional health facility. I note that a recent meeting of the health board outlined a total of 10,828 outpatient visits to that very busy hospital in the past year and 4,138 patient days. The hospital is very pressed to meet these needs, and there is also a need to plan it so we can repatriate services to the north as is planned in the Keewatin, and has been successfully completed with the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to note the modest museum addition in the capital plan for the coming year and thank the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment for putting the necessary heritage policies in place to ensure that these capital monies will be spent equitably and in a logical manner throughout the Northwest Territories. It is a major issue for the dedicated museum society in Iqaluit that artifacts from the region and the community be repatriated as are envisaged by the Inuit land claim. I know this new policy will also allow for contributions to other communities that wish to preserve their heritage in future as well.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to note that there is money for a community hall in Iqaluit in the budget for the coming year. I know there are some people who think that Iqaluit has everything, but I want to remind the Members of this House that it is one of the few communities in the Northwest Territories, and the only community in the Baffin region, that does not have a community hall. The citizens use a very crowded and worn out Anglican Church parish hall, which is simply not safe nor adequate any longer for Christmas activities. So, I am very pleased that there has been a modest $700,000 set aside in the coming year's budget to build what will be a very modest community hall. I know I will be able to work with the advisory committee and the municipal administrator in Iqaluit, which Mr. Todd will soon be appointing, so we can find a good site and a good, efficient design/build approach so we can maximize that $700,000 available and get on with this long sought dream of my constituents of actually having a community hall. They can have feasts, square dances and enjoy Christmas and other festive events as other communities do.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to say how pleased I am -- and this is more praise for Mr. Todd -- with the commitments that are in this budget and in future years' budget to improve the Iqaluit harbour in the coming year. I have probably spent more time talking about the issue of the tide, the rocks and the beach improvements in my dozen or so years in this House than any other issue. It is a matter of pressing concern to my hunting constituents. I want to note that we have made great progress in providing safer shelter for small boat owners. I am very happy that this issue has been recognized as an important priority, not just in my constituency, but in other communities in the sea coast regions.

Mr. Speaker, I said I had a note of constructive criticism in commenting on this capital budget address. I want to talk about Mr. Pollard's statement that our cost-shared programs for new housing are effectively reduced with the federal decreases in social housing funding from $43 million a year in 1991-92 to only $3 million a year and that this will mean, in effect, that our cost-shared program for new housing is effectively reduced from 372 housing units per year to just 14. Mr. Speaker, I believe that this is a major crisis. I believe this is the first priority for this Legislature and this government to deal with. I know that major efforts are being made to deal with this problem and that we will count on the good offices of some of our Members, in particular, to influence the new federal government to do the right thing and fix up this injustice to the people of the Northwest Territories. We must not lose sight of the basic fundamental issues. Housing is a major issue for the people of the Northwest Territories. Education is a major issue. Social issues, like the wages of alcohol and drug workers, like fetal alcohol effects and syndrome, are major issues. I can't help but note that, although the Minister's address seems to emphasize the crisis that we have in housing, this same government is presenting a supplementary estimate to this House to fund a northern Work Place Commission to a tune of $1.8 million over two years. Who wants this commission? Who asked for it? Who supports it? Was this dreamed up by the bureaucracy? Was it designed around the very able public servant whose former job, as head of the policy & planning secretariat, has dried up?

Mr. Speaker, I know we are to get a detailed briefing later this session. But I, for one -- from everything I've seen -- think that this Work Place Commission, in these hard financial times with the pressing social and education issues we have to deal with now, is an expensive mistake if it is allowed to go ahead. I think it bears no relation whatsoever to the political priorities of the people of the Northwest Territories and of this Assembly. Furthermore, the timing is terrible. It will be tabled in the dying days of this Assembly, in 1995. It will be a dead issue in this Assembly and I question the credibility it might enjoy with a new government.

I think that spending almost $2 million on a commission led by capable, but central agency bureaucrats with very little experience outside Yellowknife, demonstrates a failure to understand the political priorities and realities of today. At a time when we face major crises in housing and in social issues, it is completely incomprehensible to me why our government would, in effect, borrow money to study the northern work place and to cover many issues like pay equity which have already been the subject of considerable study and expense.

The same can be said of affirmative action.

I find it especially ironic that one of the subjects of study by this $2 million commission is wage parity and wage equity. Yet, a special committee of this Assembly, formed to demonstrate the Assembly's commitment to social issues, recommended early on that this government make it a priority to deal with the inadequate wages of alcohol and drug workers. One estimate presented to this House earlier on, interestingly enough, was that the whole issue of alcohol and drug workers' wages could be dealt with through the expenditure of approximately $1.7 million, just about the cost of the two years for the northern work place commission.

I have to ask myself how, as the elected representative of a community that is grappling with alcohol problems, I explain to the director of the Upassuraakut Centre in Iqaluit -- who can't hire or keep staff at the wage scale now in place and who is trying to struggle with these alcohol problems with the support of a local board -- that the Government of the Northwest Territories has been able to identify funds to send a Yellowknife bureaucrat around the territories asking about the northern work place, but can't identify monies to bring up the wages of alcohol and drug workers so the job is more attractive than a water truck driver's helper in Iqaluit.

Mr. Speaker, this is my comment on the budget address. In these times of very scarce resources, I think a very close look should be taken at the priority of studying an area of federal jurisdiction and producing a report that won't even see the end of the life of this Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, I certainly have some very positive things to say about the capital budget, about the improved planning process, about the efforts to ensure that the monies spent give maximum northern employment and maximum northern economic benefits, but I do feel that I must end with a note of caution. In these tough times, with these very pressing issues, I think the priority of this particular initiative must be carefully reviewed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Item 9, replies to budget address. Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Lewis' Reply

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you know, for the past six years I have usually been the only Member to reply to the budget address. In fact, for the first four years, Mr. Speaker -- you will recall this as you were Finance Minister -- I was the only Member to make a reply. I'm very happy to see that there are many Members who are now making ready use of this item on our order paper. This, after all, is the budget session and we should be looking at the budget address critically.

Acting the role of a critic, Mr. Speaker, is one of the easiest jobs of government. It is very easy to criticize. It is nearly always possible to find something wrong with what government does. I recall, Mr. Speaker, you reminding me of that in my responses to your address when you were Finance Minister. I started with all kinds of glowing things and never explained what it was all about. You ended up getting a long string of critical comments. Although some of the comments I have today, Mr. Speaker, will seem critical, overall I am pleased with this very large capital program. It fulfils obvious needs and injects money into our economy during very difficult times.

My first criticism is of the phrase which says, "building infrastructure through the capital program and the provision of training, business and employment opportunities are of equal importance." Of course, Mr. Speaker, there are many economic spin-offs from a capital program, but we shouldn't get too carried away with ourselves. There is a primary objective. That objective is to get things built. That is the primary objective of any capital program. Everything else relates to it, but is not equal to it.

At one time, when the capital program was a cut and dried exercise, the only consideration in capital was to get works built on time and within budget. Times, however, have changed. Today we pay premiums for local involvement, local business opportunities and training. That adds considerably to the costs of each capital project.

In an age of free trade and fierce competition between different sectors, we may not be able to conduct a protected capital program for a long time into the future and keep the goodwill of all our neighbours in this great country of ours. Establishing new ground rules for our capital program to include employment, training and business means the government is obliged to develop some value for money criteria so you know exactly what you're getting for your money, in addition to just the building that you've acquired money to build.

The same thing applies to the increasing use of negotiated contracts. I said how important it is for the government to become less interventionist and less involved in people's lives. Negotiated contracts are classic cases of government manipulation to avoid the competition of the marketplace. When open tendering does not take place, there is no opportunity to get the best value for money. Unlike some of my colleagues, I believe negotiated contracts must be handled very, very carefully.

The message to the public on the issue of negotiated contracts is this: those in power will negotiate with those they want to negotiate with and they will not negotiate a contract with those they don't wish to negotiate. There is no system in place to determine when or where it is appropriate to negotiate a contract. It depends entirely upon the wishes of those in power. Power, as we all know, is a very, very sensitive and dangerous thing if it is not exercised with great responsibility.

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An Hon. Member

Agreed.

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

There is no basis for it in some societies and it is contrary to the convention that contracts be awarded on the basis of competition and value for money.

Another way in which the government avoids testing the marketplace to get the best value for money is through proposal calls. This happens less in the capital program than in the O and M program. But, it is one more indication of a government not prepared to allow competitive bidding to take place. Yet, this is the only system which provides governments with an objective system for purchasing contract services. It means the government will search out opportunities to avoid giving work to companies which have proven they can perform well, time and time again, and hope they can find new competitors who will achieve the same kind of status, over a longer period of time.

Mr. Speaker, I was amazed to find last week that there are Members in the Assembly who want to make decisions about capital projects, really political decisions. Last week we had the example of ordinary Members asking that the road program be re-examined for the umpteenth time. Every objective criteria for the establishment of the road program was explained in great detail by the Department of Transport staff, yet for some reason we were not prepared to accept the story we were told several times and have asked that we re-examine it again.

The idea that every department treats the capital program like butter, which must be spread equally and evenly along the piece of bread, makes little sense. We have to retain the maximum amount of objectivity so that capital is allocated on the basis of real need and priority, not because something is nice to have or because someone says they want to have it.

I agree with the emphasis the government has placed -- and this is where I get to be flowery now -- on housing, and on training and education facilities. To make something a priority, however, is meaningless unless it is reflected in the budget. To simply hold out hope that the federal government will come to the rescue, is not a responsible approach and makes stating priorities a little bit hollow because we should put our money where our mouth is.

What is very commendable in this budget is the commitment to northern contracts. I'm sure our Members are pleased that 80 per cent of the dollar value of the contracts has gone to northerners. Awarding contracts on northern preference, again, Mr. Speaker, is a risky business and we may have a limited number of years ahead of us where we will be able to do this without being challenged by other jurisdictions. We should be careful how we move.

I'm also pleased to see the government continue with the experiment to present the capital budget in the fall session. This has been talked about for as long as I can remember, but never acted upon. The current government is to be congratulated on taking this bold step which other governments avoided for a long period of time. I'm sure that over the next two years, the full value of dealing with a capital budget in the fall will be realized and will become a permanent part of our budgetary procedure.

I have one comment, Mr. Speaker, on roads. There can be no doubt that, using all objective criteria, the highway from Yellowknife to Providence has the highest utilization. It also has the most wear and tear, and the highest accident rates. I'm happy to see the Minister has decided that would be a priority in the capital program. In fixing the road from Yellowknife to Edzo, thought should be given, Mr. Speaker, and I know this may not be easy to achieve, but we have one of the biggest lakes in North America sitting right next to us and it's almost inaccessible. There must be some way in the planning of government to find ways of making that lake

accessible to the 10,000 vehicles that come up that road and would like to find some way of getting into that lake.

I should also state, Mr. Speaker, that the extension of the Ingraham Trail to MacKay Lake, may seem to some people like a road to nowhere, but that road, if it were to be initiated as the commencement of a road to Coppermine, would provide access to a very large number of deposits of that area of great interest to the mining industry and to the people of the Northwest Territories, who see the mining sector as having great potential for our economy, especially in the western Arctic. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 9, replies to budget address. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell's Reply

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, normally it's not my practice to reply to the budget address, since I have been a Member of the Standing Committee on Finance. I do have an advantage with regards to any budget that is presented in this House because of being a Member. However, Mr. Speaker, I feel that I do have to make a few comments known, because I am concerned as a Member.

I am concerned that this budget is not distributed in an equitable and fair manner. I believe that is what is causing some of the concerns of Members toward this government.

I am particularly concerned with the millions of dollars spent in transportation and that there is nothing reflected in the government budget to address my constituency's transportation needs. It's taken for granted that we have a highway and it's also taken for granted, because our highway is safe, that it is okay to keep our highway as is. I believe that's unfair.

This government started a program for chip seal to highways back in 1984 and they never continued even though $20 million is going into the region. I have to stress how none of it is going into Fort Smith.

Certainly, Members on this side of the House will commend the government for focusing on the highway between Providence and Yellowknife. Naturally, that highway would be highly used because it is going to be paved. When a person can have the choice of travelling over a paved highway versus a gravelled highway, what choice do they take? I don't even need to answer that, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that this inequity and this unfairness of distribution of capital funding, particularly in transportation, has to be addressed, but I have confidence in the Minister of Transportation to address this inequity and I'm confident that I will not see such an inequity in the future.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to address the excess power that we have in Fort Smith. There's excess power from the Taltson Dam, which I think could be utilized in a more effective manner. I believe that many of the government buildings, which are operated by fuel, can probably be modified to provide heat through electricity. I believe that this would save the government thousands of dollars. However, I don't believe that this issue is being looked at.

I do want to thank the government and, particularly, the Minister of Education, who is finally going to address our 35 year old school. I'm very grateful that consideration toward renovations for the school are going to be considered because this school is old. I support the idea that it is structurally sound but it certainly has to be looked at. There are many areas in that school that are causing problems, particularly the quality of the air.

I'm further grateful that government has placed the headquarters of Arctic College, once again, back into Fort Smith. I believe that is a good decision, even though it is not going into Yellowknife, and that it can serve all the students just as effectively as it did in Yellowknife. I'm grateful for the headquarters being moved back.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, with regard to the tanker base, I believe we have to ensure that the many opportunities that are going to be available through that tanker base are taken advantage of. I'm placing my confidence in the Minister of Education to ensure that training opportunities are made available. However, I am somewhat concerned that this process is taking longer than we had initially anticipated and I will be pursuing this further with the government.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, on the academic college building, not only myself and my constituents are grateful to the government for addressing this particular building, but I'm sure many students who go to the Thebacha Campus of Arctic College are grateful. I believe that this building is well overdue. I thank the government for taking the initiative to address this building which has been in the capital plan for the past six years. It has been delayed, but we are grateful that this facility is finally coming to fruition. I am more so grateful to the Minister of Public Works, who has been in Fort Smith to encourage local contractors to work together. There is no doubt that the local contractors are taking on such a challenge. I am very happy to recognize that many of these dollars that will be spent through the academic building, which would have flowed out of Fort Smith, will not only stay in the north but, more importantly, will stay in my constituency, particularly the dollars that are going to be spent on jobs. All we hear, as politicians, is the need for jobs and I agree with people who have been telling us that there is a lack of jobs in our economy today. We, as a Legislative Assembly, have to make every effort to create these jobs and make sure these jobs that are created are taken up by northerners. I believe that this initiative by the Minister of Public Works will take full advantage of such an opportunity. I know my constituency has the local expertise to provide the manpower necessary. I am confident that the facility will be built with a high percentage of local content.

Mr. Speaker, I want to address one concern that I still have of the government. I addressed that in my reply to the Commissioner's address last year. However, it seems that I should address it, with regards to this capital budget. It is with regards to the housing of the Northwest Territories. I am very concerned that we do not have enough funding to provide housing for the Northwest Territories, that we do not have the commitment from the federal government to provide as much housing as is needed in the Northwest Territories. I am more concerned, as a native person that, I believe, the Government of Canada is neglecting some of the fiduciary responsibilities to aboriginal people. I believe this government has to continue to stress such a responsibility to the Government of Canada which has to be fulfilled.

I also want to express concern with regards to the territorial housing strategy. I believe the implementation is in a mess. I want to quote from December 3, when I asked one of the Ministers, "How are these houses in our constituency -- that are government houses -- going to be disposed?" On December 3, the previous Minister of Personnel at the time, who was Mr. Kakfwi, had responded to me in this House and stated, "The Member for Thebacha asked me when the houses being considered for sale in Fort Smith will be going to the real estate agencies. Staff houses that are considered for sale in Fort Smith will be going to the real estate agencies beginning January 1993, a maximum of five to ten units will be on the market at any one time. Thank you." As of this date, not one unit is on the local market.

In response to my question to the Minister this afternoon, now the Minister of Public Works has the responsibility to straighten out this mess, which I think is unfair. However, the Minister stated that there are no houses on the market. These houses may now be offered to the housing corporation. All the government has done is taken the government houses, given them either to the college or to the housing corporation and taken some of the financial costs and responsibility and transferred them to other departments, as opposed to getting out of housing. That was the intent of the housing strategy -- to get out of government housing. They are not doing that, whether or not they recognize it. That is why I say it is in a mess.

Mr. Speaker, one of my colleagues had asked whether or not government housing was for sale, whether Cabinet Ministers were offered their housing units at appraised value. The answer was yes, Cabinet Ministers were offered housing. I recall totally that there was a policy in the Executive Council...unless the policy has been modified or amended to date, the previous policy did not allow for Cabinet Ministers to purchase housing. If it did not allow for them to purchase houses, then why were they even given the opportunity to purchases houses? That is another reason why I say the housing strategy is in a mess. I certainly would encourage this government to look at the mess they have and try to clean it up, because it can probably bring in revenue which they initially didn't anticipate. I do not believe we would be looking at such a financial deficit.

However, Mr. Speaker, I do want to say, overall, that I know this government has made a considerable effort with regard to decentralization, bringing as many jobs in the north that they have created to stay in the north, and I commend them for that. However, I believe that we also, at the same time, have to be careful that they are doing it in a fair and equitable manner. That is the focal point that I want in my reply to the budget address. All we are asking you -- with our dollars that you are receiving -- is to be fair in the way you distribute it. I do not believe that is much to ask. Thank you.

---Applause

Item 9: Replies To Budget Address
Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Page 259

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 9, replies to budget address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Mr. Koe.

Committee Report 8-12(4): Final Report On The Elimination Of The Highway Transport Board
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 259

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today on behalf of the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions to present our report on the elimination of the Highway Transport Board.

On September 7, 1993, the Minister of Transportation appeared before the committee with a proposal to eliminate the NWT Highway Transport Board. This would be accomplished by repealing the Public Service Vehicles Act and incorporating some of its provisions into the Motor Vehicles Act.

Observations And Recommendations

The committee recognizes that, with the deregulation of Canada's transportation industry, the Highway Transport Board's role has been greatly reduced. According to the Department of Transportation, eliminating the board will save approximately $30,000 per year and will allow the department's motor vehicles division to manage all aspects of transportation regulation in the Northwest Territories.

As well, in keeping with the spirit of deregulation, this initiative should help foster healthy competition in the Northwest Territories' transport industry.

We also recognize that the NWT Motor Transport Association supports the Minister's initiative.

We support the Minister's proposal to eliminate the Highway Transport Board. We do have some recommendations and we assume the enabling legislation, to be tabled by the Minister, will deal with them adequately.

Recommendation 1

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions recommends that fees charged by the Highway Transport Board should be transferred into the Motor Vehicle Act fee schedule, unchanged.

With the elimination of the board, and the transfer of the licensing function for the motor vehicles division, an adjudicator position would be created to hear appeals from decisions by the registrar of motor vehicles. However, the committee has no information regarding the nature of this position, to whom the adjudicator will report and whether the position will be a permanent position within the government, a contract position or an addition of responsibilities to an existing position.

Recommendation 2

The standing committee further recommends that, prior to the establishment of a position of adjudicator, the Minister must clarify and justify the nature of such a position.

Recommendation 3

Prior to any legislative changes, the Minister must provide the Legislative Assembly with more detail regarding the financial effect of eliminating the board.

Recommendation 4

To enable the Minister to respond to these recommendations, in accordance with rule 93(5), the Minister shall table a comprehensive response to this report.

The committee would like to thank the Minister of Transportation and his officials for their presentation and their response to committee Members' questions and concerns.

Motion To Receive Committee Report 8-12(4) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, that the report of the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions, on the elimination of the Highway Transport Board be received and moved into committee of the whole for consideration. Mahsi.

Committee Report 8-12(4): Final Report On The Elimination Of The Highway Transport Board
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 259

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Your motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 259

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table, Tabled Document 30-12(4), Final Report, Traditional Dene Justice Report, Lac La Martre, Northwest Territories, 1993.

I also wish to table, Tabled Document 31-12(4), River Ridge Young Offenders Facility, Fort Smith, Northwest Territories.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 259

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 13, tabling of documents. Madam Premier.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 259

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

I wish to table, Tabled Document 32-12(4), minister/deputy minister travel for the period November, 1991 to October 15, 1993.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 259

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Minister's Statement 3-12(4), Sessional Statement; Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95; Committee Report 1-12(4), Special Committee on Health and Social Services Final Report;

Committee Report 3-12(4), Review of the 1994-95 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 7-12(4), Standing Committee on Public Accounts Report on the Committee Review of DeLury and Associates Limited Contracts; and, Tabled Document 11-12(4), Report from the Fort Providence/Cambridge Bay Strategic Planning Workshops, with Mr. Pudluk in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 260

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Good afternoon. I call this committee to order. What is the wish of the committee this afternoon? Member for Thebacha.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 260

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

We would like to go home for supper if we are going to come back at 7:00 pm. Mr. Chairman, we just would like to continue on with the Special Committee on Health and Social Services final report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 260

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Does the committee agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 260

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Report 1-12(4), Talking And Working Together

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 260

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. We are working on the Special Committee on Health and Social Services report, page 32. Who wishes to start the speech? Mr. Koe.

What We Recommend

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 260

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. Mr. Chairman, this is what we recommend in areas related specifically to elders. The involvement of respected elders in community-based counselling programs should be encouraged and promoted. It is important that those who want to contribute in this way are able to remain in the community. The focus of health and social services for our elders should, therefore, change from institutions and towards community and home-based care.

As part of this process of assisting elders to remain in their communities, the provision of local palliative care should be encouraged wherever possible. Since palliative care may be provided in the home, steps should be taken to ensure that our elders enjoy decent housing.

Elders should also be assisted in maintaining their financial independence. The financial exploitation of elders is unacceptable. Ways must be found to help them retain greater control over the money they receive from income assistance programs. Specific measures could include a different payment schedule, the use of vouchers instead of cash, plus money management and budgeting programs.

The abuse of elders in our society is totally unacceptable. They have made an important contribution to the community during their lives. It is time for the community to give something back in return. What could be more meaningful than a greater sense of personal security? We understand the proposed Guardianship and Trusteeship Act includes an adult protection clause, which allows granting of temporary

guardianship for elders who are being abused. We recommend and support prompt passage of such legislation.

A more extensive and active support system is required to help abused elders find information and assistance. This support can be provided in two ways. The first is by supporting the development of local and regional self-help groups for seniors. The second way is for the government and such groups to make it easier for elders to find out about the services available to them. This could be done by designating someone within government as a contact person on elders' issues. At the same time, elders could be provided with a way in which they could obtain information, answers and assistance.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 260

Fred Koe Inuvik

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommend that a government contact person on programs for elders should be designated and provided with a 1-800 telephone line, so that elders have direct access to a source of information and help.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 260

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Lewis.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 260

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When we were given the basic recommendation for the involvement of respected elders in community-based counselling programs and the promotion of the use of the skills of our elders, I couldn't help noticing that when we get into the recommendations, there is not very much about what use these people are. It is all to do with what kind of help they can get, what kind of access they can get to people who can help them out and the problem of abuse, et cetera. In fact, nearly all the recommendations seem to treat elders as if they are only victims. I appreciate that the report has pointed out that we may be a bit hypocritical in the Northwest Territories, in that we always talk about the tremendous respect for elders and how highly we esteem them, yet if you look at the records, especially of many of the community meetings, it is clear that there is abuse and this group contains people that have to be protected. There is an awful lot of waste too. I've had people make the comment that elders are trundled out into the open when they are needed, when we need to show the public how much we think of these people, then we make a show of them. There is a degree of hypocrisy there, sometimes. For the most part, it seems to me elders are ignored.

Although this particular recommendation talks about making help available to elders who need it, it doesn't really follow from the paragraphs which talk about the involvement of respected elders in community-based programs. Many of them do have a role. Not more than six months ago, I was in Iqaluit and a respected elder made this point to me, one of the biggest problems that young people face in our communities is they don't have anybody to talk to. They can't talk to their peers, they can't talk to their teachers, and they can't talk with their parents. There doesn't seem to be anybody that you can go to and talk, with some degree of confidence, to get help.

It is seen as a gap. There are older people who have all kinds of knowledge and wisdom, and so on, and yet, we don't seem to find ways of using their abilities. Although I'm not speaking against any particular recommendation -- which I welcome by the way, the idea that we do have an enthused group of people who have too long been ignored and undervalued -- we should also look at other ways in which older people can have a useful life. Just because you are 65, doesn't mean that you should just be pushed in a corner and brought out when people figure you can help the community look good.

I welcome the idea of the recognition of the need to assist those people who are abused. But, I think we should also find some way of recognizing that you just don't throw people on the dump heap because they aren't as active or physically strong as they were at one time. Mr. Chairman, every single person in this room -- if they are lucky and follow a good life -- will become old one day. That's what is going to happen to us all. You wouldn't want to think that when you reached the age of 60 or 65 that suddenly, you have no value, no use and that you are thrown upon the waste heap and forgotten about. Thank you.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Dent, do you want to respond to Mr. Lewis' comments?

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think Members of the committee found that what Mr. Lewis is saying is far too often the case in many communities across the north. There really is a problem with elders not being accorded a place in our society that they should be. I want to make clear to Mr. Lewis that this recommendation doesn't necessarily follow from what you read and what we started with today.

In fact, everything that Mr. Koe has read today have been recommendations. In other words, we are recommending the involvement of respected elders in community-based counselling programs. We believe that is important. One of the reasons it didn't show up in a separate recommendation in this report is because our interim report number three introduced a recommendation into this House -- which did get passed by the Legislature -- which urged the government to get involved in a pilot project involving the provision of what we call para-professional counselling at the community level.

What we are talking about here, in the lead up to the recommendation, was using respected elders and other people from the community. In previous reports, we've talked about making sure that respected elders do get their place as counsellors in our society. Because it was one of the recommendations we had dealt with earlier, it didn't show up as one of the numbered recommendations in this report.

As I said, Mr. Chairman, even though a motion is not coming forward saying, for instance, that elders should be assisted to remain in their communities and the provision of local palliative care should be encouraged wherever possible, it is the feeling of our committee that all the things we raise in our report -- whether they are put forward as motions or not -- are things we are expecting the government to act upon. We are hoping we will see some action in those areas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I, too, agree with the intent and principle of the recommendation. I am trying to figure out, like Mr. Lewis, the effectiveness of a 1-800 number for the elders. I happen to know some people who work as volunteers on the help line. They are very seldom called. Yet, there was a suicide committed in Hall Beach not too long ago. Why did that person not call?

My point here, Mr. Chairman, is that if the recommendation goes through, there will have to be a clear, specific, step-by-step method of instruction -- maybe a pamphlet will have to be issued to the elders -- of calling the number. And, if the 1-800 number is set up in Yellowknife as usual, and a unilingual Inuktitut elder calls from Grise Fiord or Sanikiluaq, the government contact person will not be able to speak all eight languages. It is not practical. They will probably have to use English as the working language and maybe Slavey, Gwich'in or Inuktitut. But somebody will not be able to communicate if the person answering is unilingual.

I would like the chairman of the standing committee to explain what is planned here. The government should not come up with a 1-800 number and a formal procedure to use it, if it doesn't work for the majority of elders. My question about the motion is, what are the plans to make the 1-800 number practical and workable so the elders who need this kind of assistance can have confidence in calling it?

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, I'm going to give the chairman of the special committee a little time to think about what you are asking. It is now 5:30 pm and the committee stands recessed until 7:00 pm. We'll get back to you, Mr. Arvaluk, when we return.

---DINNER RECESS

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Now, this committee will come to order. Before we had a break for supper, there was a question on the floor. Mr. Arvaluk. The chairman of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services, Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 261

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe Mr. Arvaluk's question had to do with how we would deal with language problems on a 1-800 number. The Official Languages Act requires that the government provides service in any official language where there is sufficient demand. So if there was demand for the languages then that would have to be provided. The government may choose to, for instance, set this up on a regional basis so that it could be done easily in languages of the regions. We haven't said exactly how the system should be set up, but we are aware that there's a seniors society which is trying to set up on a regional basis. So, hopefully, there will be a group of elders in every region which we are hoping would then be called on by the government to provide advice. They could certainly help the government with how to set this sort of program up.

Really, Mr. Chairman, this recommendation comes from hearing from elders all across the north. Not only did they not know where to get help, but when they went to ask somebody about how to deal with a problem, even that person often couldn't find out. For instance, if they had a home care worker coming in and they wanted to get some assistance on finding out how to take advantage of the fuel subsidy, that information wasn't readily available even to the home care worker to pass on to the elder.

We're hoping, with this kind of system set up, that people will be able to take advantage of one-stop shopping when it comes to advice on where seniors should go for assistance in the system. That's really the goal. In terms of the languages, that's something that will have to be dealt with, pursuant to the Official Languages Act, which does require services to be provided in all the official languages, where demand is sufficient.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

James Arvaluk Aivilik

To the motion, Mr. Chairman. I support the principle, by the way. I just want to know how it is going to work. Did the committee consult with the Languages Commission to be consist with the Legislative Assembly's programs and projects?

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, we did not consult specifically with the languages commissioner. As I said, the requirements of the legislation are pretty clear and there is no choice involved. If there is sufficient demand, services must be provided in all of the official languages, or any of the official languages.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Allooloo.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like Mr. Arvaluk, I hear what the chairman of the committee is saying. I support the concept but I question whether this would be the best method to help the elders. Mr. Chairman, we would have all the official languages, but I am wondering how many times the services would be used. We would have a lot of people sitting there doing nothing for periods of time until an elderly person wants help. I wonder, isn't there a better way, instead of establishing a 1-800 number in the Northwest Territories? Isn't there a better way of dealing with it in the regional bases? Normally, regional people speak the same languages. For example, the Baffin, Keewatin, Deh Cho, Inuvik -- Inuvik might have a couple of languages. Isn't there a better way, rather than having a central location for elders to get information? If it's a central location, sometimes the people who are appointed into those positions don't have the sensitivity of certain regions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is no doubt. I think I mentioned in my answer to Mr. Arvaluk that we are aware of an elders' group which is trying to set up operations on a regional basis in the Northwest Territories. They could perhaps be called upon to assist with this sort of program. It could certainly be considered on a regional basis. This recommendation is not saying it's limited to only one location. We are saying that there should be at least that one. If there are more, that's fine. Part of the problem we found was not just with elders not being able to get the information, but even people who were helping to care for them often couldn't find out specific information about programs which were designed to assist elders.

We're saying that we need to have one person, at least one person, who can answer all of the questions that might come up. For instance, when we were in three or four of the regions, we ran into people who were unable to find out through the Social Service office how to get in touch with somebody to deal with problems they were having with Canada Pension. Even the social workers in the community didn't have all the answers. We want to make sure that there is a number that an elder can call to talk to a social service worker and the social service worker has a source for information. We found that too often the information just wasn't available to anybody in the community, let alone to the elder. I think that it's important that we recognize that. That's what we're hoping will be addressed with this. I think that you'll find that we would welcome having things set up on a more regional basis.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Allooloo. To the motion.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Chairman. I agree with the principle, Mr. Chairman. I think there's a need for that kind of service provided for elders because they don't always have the necessary information about services that the government provides. I think, Mr. Chairman, there is a better way that could be found, if we asked the people in the regions how to address this problem. If we do it this way, as Mr. Dent says, we would have at least one person who is able to answer all the questions that elders might have. But, recognizing that elders do speak different languages, I don't think one person could do it. I don't think there is anybody in the Northwest Territories who is able to speak all the Dene languages and Inuktitut languages, Inuvialuit and Innuinaqtun. One person cannot do it. I think what we are doing here by making the recommendation to the government is establishing an ombudsperson for elders. Does it have to be strictly limited to elders? Could it be for other people as well? Thank you.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 262

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The recommendation arises out of, again, what the committee's activities are. The committee's activities were to look at health and social services and, in examining the concerns of elders -- which was one of the groups that we specifically looked at -- we clearly heard, across the Northwest Territories, that many elders found the system inaccessible and cumbersome. I recognize the concern that some people may not be able to talk all of the languages. I don't think, as Mr. Allooloo has said, that anybody can speak all eight languages. We felt that this was one way of making sure that we could communicate to elders and let them know that this service was available. The service would obviously have to be set up so that there was somebody closely available that could interpret, if necessary, for the person who was providing the advice. I think that sort of ability is possible and I think it is one way to get things started. If we don't deal with the problem in some direct fashion, the problem isn't going to go away. Too often we heard that elders don't know about what programs are available for them. The people who are helping them, the people who provide service to them, often don't know about the programs. We need to have someone in government who can explain government programs -- which are the same across the Northwest Territories -- to people who are out in the field. That means more than just the elders, that means the people who are

providing the services. I do think the system could be set up so that there was an interpreter available to deal with questions and have, perhaps, one person start with the service. My concern is that if we try and say that the government has to develop a big bureaucracy at this point in time, we are liable to get into the argument that there isn't enough money to start it right now and that would be the excuse for it never to appear. I think the committee was trying to present as economic a solution as possible and see how it works. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as a Member of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services, the report is preliminary. It is the beginning of what people want us to do as a public government. Once the report has been approved by all 24 Members -- hopefully, we will have the support of 24 Members -- and when implementation comes to force, perhaps a broader scope of details can be worked out. Perhaps we can try and utilize what people want, to make the program more efficient, to make it more accessible to people who need the programs and services. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed. Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 23-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 18, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Members. We are on recommendation number 19. Elder abuse will not be stopped until attitudes in society are changed. Public awareness of appropriate laws and policies must be increased. At the same time, elders must be informed of the ways in which they can receive support.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

Fred Koe Inuvik

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommend that a public education program should be launched to inform people that elder abuse is unacceptable and to let abused elders know where they can find assistance. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you. I just wanted to know the definition of what is unacceptable. What do you mean, or what can be done using the word unacceptable?

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Who would like to respond to that question? Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

Fred Koe Inuvik

Earlier in the report we talked about zero tolerance for violence. The Minister of Justice tabled some reports and that statement on violence towards people. We feel that no violence and no abuse is acceptable. I think that's a stand that we have to take. Zero tolerance towards violence is what we're looking for here. No abuse, let the elders live in peace and live out the rest of their days. That's what we're looking for.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to add to what Mr. Koe has said, he's absolutely right. We've said zero tolerance to violence and that includes elders. Elder abuse takes on many other forms too. It may not be just physical. It can be emotional. It can be financial. It can be just simple neglect. All of those things are forms of abuse that we heard about in our travels. Part of the problem is that a lot of elders, themselves, aren't aware of what constitutes abuse, so they don't understand that the treatment they are receiving is sometimes unacceptable.

We heard about elders who are neglected by their family and often only saw their family members on days when cheques arrived and then the family only stuck around long enough to take the money away from the elder and, often, squander it.

In one community, we heard about an elderly gentleman who lives in an unhealthy house and he's not even able to look after himself. He's got five kids living in the same community, but they don't help him. The only time they go to see him is when, as I said, a cheque shows up.

Too often, though, what we found was that an elder didn't know where to turn when they were abused, or how to get assistance. That's why we think we have to let elders know -- that's where we talked about an education program -- we have to let younger people know, that all forms of elder abuse are unacceptable. We've got to find some way to let elders know where they can get some assistance whenever they are being abused.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 263

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

We are very good at coming up with nice-sounding words all the time, about something being unacceptable, but how do you put teeth into things like this. I read, about a year ago, that in 1920 because of a government's desire to have the rule of law imposed in the west part of the Northwest Territories, there were handbills sent around to every camp in slavic writing which said, you shouldn't kill people, it's wrong to kill people, you're not supposed to do that. If you do that, we know that there are punishments. If you do something that's wrong, then you are breaking the law. This one here is much more subtle than that. It's not a question of beating somebody up or stealing something -- because very often there's theft involved -- but it's a question of not treating people with proper dignity, just making use of people when it suits you to have them for a particular purpose. Like dumping kids on them -- I could just send them to the folks, they can look after them without worrying whether it was convenient for them or not. I'm talking about my own community now. I'm not talking about all the places that you visited. These are the kinds of abuses that are much more subtle. How can you say, it's unacceptable for you to just take off and dump your kids on the old folks without

giving them enough food to look after them, or enough money to look after them. It's much more subtle than just physical stuff or breaking the law, like stealing from them that which is rightfully theirs.

With all these recommendations, I can't imagine what a public education program would look like. How would you implement it? Where would it be done? Who would have to go to it? Would it be compulsory that you have to take an education course if you're found to be an abusive person? These words sound good until you look at them and say, how can that work? How are you going to make people take a public education program so that they understand this better. It just sounds good until you analyze it and say, how can this be made real. All the other stuff you can do something about. If someone is beaten up, that's obviously against the law. You can get charged for it. It's the same thing for stealing or if you kill somebody. It's against the law. But, all this other more subtle stuff is much, much different. I'm just wondering whether a lot of our recommendations are going to be no more than just nice-sounding words that you really can't do much to enforce, or will they make changes in our society that will make the difference.

I've got nothing against a lot of these recommendations, but every time I see one I want to look at the words to see if it could make a difference. Could it result in change? That's my problem with most of the recommendations that I'm reading. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 264

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 264

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think Mr. Lewis hit the nail on the head when he said that much in the way of elder abuse is subtle. Because it is subtle, it's not something that you can enact laws on.

Mr. Chairman, we don't enact laws about taking education courses on AIDS either. That doesn't mean that we stop trying to teach people about the dangers of AIDS or sexually transmitted diseases. That doesn't mean that we stop trying to educate people about the dangers of fetal alcohol syndrome, the dangers of drinking, the dangers of tobacco use. With all of these things, we can not enact laws which will stop people from doing them but if we don't start talking about them, if we don't start a public campaign to get people talking about the problems and how to deal with those problems, then we're not helping to solve the situation either.

I think that's one of the areas that government has as its responsibility, to take on these areas where the public needs to start thinking and talking about what the dangers are, in situations like AIDS and tobacco. We need to start talking about changing attitudes towards elder abuse and towards violence. Talking about them in our society is one way to start dealing with them.

We have been, in North America, relatively successful at decreasing the use of tobacco. That hasn't been because of legislation. That has been because of public education. What we're saying is that changing of attitudes that can come about from a public education campaign is what is required to really change society and its willingness to put up with elder abuse. That's the problem. Too often, we're willing to put up with elder abuse. We don't speak out against it when we see it taking place. We don't try and solve the problem. That's what we have to try and achieve. There's no way that we can legislate an end to a lot of the problems that we face. A lot of the solutions are going to have to come from people deciding that it's time to face up to the problem itself and deal with it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 264

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Whitford.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 264

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I support the motion, although it's not perfect. It isn't a perfect world that we live in and if we were to wait until we understood fully and knew everything, a lot of damage could take place in that period of time.

I am satisfied from what I've heard and what people have said that this truly reflects some of the things that we've heard in our travels. I've seen the types of abuse being referred to here in the debate. Some of it is subtle and some of it not so subtle. When I was younger, I knew of older folk who were being physically abused for their pension cheques. There were other things done to them by younger people who lived with them or came to visit them. These things may not be totally on the criminal side; things that you couldn't really prove in a court. But it was enough to make life miserable and not let them experience the quality of life that our senior folk should expect.

Mr. Lewis said earlier that we hold elders in high regard, sometimes, when we need them. The rest of the time we kind of use them. Something like this will let seniors know their rights and let people know where the fine line is. We'll develop this as we go along. I would rather not wait until we had all the details ironed out. I would rather move on it by supporting this motion and getting something done. It is better to have a program that still needs to be developed, and, at least in part, we have something there already. I would support the motion. Thank you.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 264

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 264

Fred Koe Inuvik

Our whole report and our recommendations reflect what people told us and what we heard in the communities. People out there put a lot of faith and a lot of trust in us when we talked to them or listened to them, whether it was in big group meetings, public meetings or in private meetings. If we are not willing to discuss these issues at this level -- the highest level in the north -- then what chance is there for change? This is a chance to change attitudes in our society.

That is why a lot of recommendations are considered soft. We can't enact legislation but we have to take some leadership, we have to stand up and discuss them. That is what we have tried to reflect in this report. Thank you.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 264

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 264

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, when we visited communities in the eastern and western Arctic, when we met with different groups of people including elders,

there were visible pains and tolerance, especially on the faces of older people. When we told them that, once we had compiled information from different regions and we completed the report, we were going to make a presentation to the House -- the highest public form of government in the NWT -- there was a glimmer of hope on their faces.

If we can move forward just a little bit, at least we have accomplished something that people, and especially elders, have hoped for. If the wording is not economically acceptable to some of the Members, I guess we are open to suggestions. That's why we have made this report and we deliberate and debate the report. We need all the help we can get from the membership, either to approve the report in its entirety or to change some of the terminology which may not be forceful enough to get the government to act upon the recommendations. Thank you.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Just one thing. Mr. Lewis was wondering about teeth in the act. As the committee was preparing this report, we became aware of the fact that the government was proposing a new Guardianship and Trusteeship Act, which would contain an adult protection clause. We felt that might go some way toward putting some teeth into the protection that we see necessary for elders. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Yes, I'll be brief, Mr. Chairman. I think that people know that what they do is unacceptable. They know that stealing from somebody is not normal. They know that being violent to somebody is not normal. People are aware that what they are doing is not right. It is very difficult to deal with people that are related to you. It seems to me, Mr. Dent's suggestion about the Guardianship and Trusteeship Act might be something that would be useful for us for us to look at, in terms of helping people defend themselves.

What I do know is that the guardianship acts in Manitoba, British Columbia and one other jurisdiction, instead of having somebody as a real guardian -- somebody that was suddenly appointed to protect you and look after you -- the tendency is looking toward a trustee. A trusted person that you know very well who could help you and act on your behalf. Not the old fashioned guardian where you put yourself in that person's hands; it is more of a trust relationship. That has happened in British Columbia. It has also happened in Manitoba.

We are still waiting, though, to see what the government is proposing in its guardianship act. The old one was completely unacceptable to people, where you put yourself in somebody's hands to do all your thinking for you and all your planning for you. If the new act of ours has something more like a trusted person taking care of you -- where it is more of a partnership and not a slave-master relationship -- to help you resolve issues, it would be much stronger.

I realize the committee didn't have the knowledge of whatever the government is proposing, but the big issue to me is how do elders get help to deal with these problems? How do they solve it? Very often they feel very sensitive and nervous about it. Sometimes they feel weak. And they don't want to face up to a big problem they don't know how to handle. I think you can have as much public education as you want. I think people know that it is not right. The big issue to me is how elders stop this. Maybe if they got the kind of help that such an act would propose, maybe that would be the solution. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 24-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 19, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you Members. If community-based care for elders is to be achieved, it is important to provide occasional relief for those who provide these services in the home. Respite care has proven to be effective. It provides a rest for care givers, while ensuring the continuity of home care. Respite care should be made available to families who care for elders and other family members with special needs. In some communities, such as Fort Simpson and Hay River, this is already being done using available hospital beds. It should also be available to elders who are looking after other family members such as custom adopted children, grandchildren or adult mentally handicapped children.

Committee Motion 25-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 20, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

Fred Koe Inuvik

Respite care should be available for those who care for others in the home. A plan for such a program should be included in the government's 1995-96 budget.

Committee Motion 25-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 20, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 25-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 20, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 25-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 20, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 25-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 20, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 25-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 20, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Members. Recommendation 21. The adequacy of our income support payments to elders should be reviewed. These payments should more accurately reflect the high cost of living in the North and the changing costs between communities. This review should examine the programs operated by the governments of both the Northwest Territories and Canada.

Committee Motion 26-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 21, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 265

Fred Koe Inuvik

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that the adequacy of income support payments to elders should be reviewed and the Government of Canada must be pressured to conduct a similar review of its own program payments.

Committee Motion 26-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 21, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 266

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

To the motion.

Committee Motion 26-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 21, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 266

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 26-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 21, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 266

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 26-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 21, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 266

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 26-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 21, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 266

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Recommendation 22. The fuel or wood subsidy was developed to encourage elders to maintain an independent lifestyle in their own homes. But the interpretation of the rules governing the program is creating hardships for those who rely on this assistance. People told us that the amount of the subsidy is inadequate given the cost of fuel and the problem of heating substandard housing. This suggests that the program needs to be reviewed. This study should determine whether the original intent of the subsidy is reflected in the current program. The subsidy should then be revised as necessary. Seniors themselves should be given a role in this process.

Committee Motion 27-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 22, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 266

Fred Koe Inuvik

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that the fuel subsidy program should be reviewed and amended as required. The program objectives and purpose should be effectively communicated.

Committee Motion 27-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 22, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 266

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 27-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 22, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 266

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 27-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 22, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 266

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 27-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 22, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 266

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Children And Youth

This Is What We Heard About Issues Affecting Children And Youth

More than half the residents of the Northwest Territories are under 18 years of age. Any review of our health and social services must take into account the particular issues facing

these important members of our community. Here is what we heard:

Child Sexual Abuse Is A Terrible Reality

Few things disturbed us more, during our entire review, than what we heard about the extent and devastating effects of child sexual abuse. According to some people, child sexual abuse is at the core of many of the social problems presently facing residents of the Northwest Territories. Attempted suicide, substance abuse and criminal behaviour are just some of the lasting consequences associated with the unresolved effects of child sexual abuse. Other concerns related to this problem include the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, including AIDS, and girls becoming pregnant as early as the age of twelve.

People want greater recognition, prevention and community treatment of child sexual abuse and its effects on our young. At the same time, it is clear that there are obstacles in the way of such efforts.

These obstacles include: a shortage of community resources; ineffective public education; a lack of shelters in which children might find protection; the absence of therapy and follow-up care for victims and offenders; and what is perceived to be excessive leniency on the part of juries towards accused abusers.

We Need More Housing, Shelter And Recreational Facilities

We heard many requests for additional facilities in which children can seek emergency shelter and pursue safe recreational activity.

A troubled home creates a troubled social environment for many children. We were told that overcrowded housing takes a terrific toll on young people. A number of these effects were previously identified by the Legislative Assembly's Special Committee on Housing in 1985. These consequences include: a turbulent family life; poor parenting behaviour; fighting between parents; drunkenness by one or more family members; mental stress; overcrowded sleeping conditions; a lack of privacy; the neglect or abuse of children; poor study habits and absenteeism from school.

We heard that home life can be so difficult for children that they may be safer on the streets late at night, in violation of local curfews, than in their own homes. That is why people are calling for more shelters in which children can find respite for a few hours or overnight if conditions at home become unbearable.

Children told us that boredom caused by a lack of safe group activity was a major concern. We heard that better access to recreational facilities, including school gyms, would provide young people with something to do.

Several problems were identified around existing school policies in this area. These include the fact that schools are often closed after 5:00 pm, a lack of volunteers to supervise activity when school gyms are open and the need to pay fees in order to play many organized sports. People are also looking to other solutions, such as local drop-in centres and the use of camps on the land.

We Heard That Fetal Alcohol Syndrome/Fetal Alcohol Effects Require Greater Attention

FAS/FAE were raised as particular health and social problems facing our children in many communities. We heard estimates that anywhere from 15 to 50 per cent of the students in a given school, and up to 25 per cent in one region, may show the effects of FAS/FAE, which are caused by women drinking during pregnancy.

It is difficult to determine just how widespread these ailments may be. We are disappointed and alarmed that the government has yet to respond to a recommendation in this area, contained in one of our Interim Reports to the Legislative Assembly. In March of 1993, we called on the government to undertake a clinical study to get an accurate picture of the incidence of FAS/FAE in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Chairman, the next speaker is Mr. Tony Whitford.

Committee Motion 27-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 22, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 267

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Whitford.

People Told Us That Child Care Must Be Improved

Committee Motion 27-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 22, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 267

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like other Canadians, the residents of the Northwest Territories are concerned about the lack of local, accessible, capable and affordable child care. This shortage is reflected in several ways.

We heard that student mothers or older children stay out of school in order to care for the young. In fact, staying home to provide such care was called one of the leading causes of absenteeism from educational programs. We also heard that the lack of child care affects attendance in the workplace as well, particularly among single mothers.

People support the creation of local child care facilities as one solution. Another proposal called for suitable space to be found inside the school and workplace to enable women to continue with their jobs or education.

Foster Care Must Be Monitored More Closely

Mr. Chairman, we heard a number of concerns about our system of foster care. We were told that there is already a lack of foster homes throughout the north. There is a particular shortage of aboriginal foster homes. But people said that the criteria used in the selection of foster homes may be beyond the reach of many potential candidates.

We were told that foster parents are often provided with little or no information about the young people they take into their homes. People also mentioned the tension that accompanies the placement of a child into a foster home of a different culture. Finally, we heard that there is very little follow-up, monitoring, training or support provided foster parents once a child is placed in the home.

Recommendations we received during our review included greater initial screening of foster parents, the involvement of local committees in the selection process, providing more and better child-specific information and improved monitoring to ensure that the best interests of the children are being served.

We must note our disappointment over the government's delay in proceeding with the implementation of the recommendations of the Family Law Review. Action should have been taken long ago in such important issues as custom and private adoptions.

Earlier Intervention Is Necessary For Children With Special Needs

Mr. Chairman, we were told about one complete gap in authority, in that no department has the responsibility for providing services to special needs children, especially preschoolers. In 1985, a report was prepared, suggesting clarification of departmental roles and financial obligations and recommending early intervention with children with special needs. This recommendation arose, in part, out of the evaluation of a successful early intervention pilot project conducted in Pond Inlet. Despite this project's success, the government took no action to allocate the responsibility and funds for such programs.

Six years later, a tri-ministerial committee of Education, Health and Social Services was formed to review this issue. The committee made further recommendations but still no action was taken. No one department had the legislative mandate for such services so no funds were allocated, despite the continued acceptance that early intervention was crucial to helping these children.

The Pelly Bay early intervention pilot project happened because the regional board of education and the regional Social Services staff saw the need and worked with department program staff and Stanton Hospital professionals to scrounge the money and staff time to make it happen. They made it work, despite the continued government in action, and some children benefited tremendously. Unfortunately, a planned formal evaluation of the project did not happen, due to lack of funds.

We also heard of constraints within current child welfare legislation that can preclude or delay timely intervention with families where children are in need of protection. In light of these problems, it is easy to understand why the family law review determined that our child welfare legislation is out of date and needs to be replaced.

A Lack Of Self-Esteem Cannot Be Left Unchecked

Mr. Chairman, a lack of self-esteem cannot be left unchecked. A number of factors contribute to a lack of self-esteem on the part of children and young people The belief that no one is listening to or acting on their concerns can reduce their sense

of self-worth. This may lead them to conclude that they only receive attention when they get into trouble.

We heard that a lack of self-esteem may be reflected in less communication with parents, the acceptance of violence in our community, absenteeism from school, a lack of employment and a pessimist view of the future.

We were told that these factors can lead our young people to attempt the most self-destructive act of all: suicide. This is a disturbing and tragic reality among this important segment of our population. We heard requests for help in recognizing and treating the symptoms of this behaviour. People called for training in early awareness and intervention methods, especially in those communities that may only receive a couple of visits each year from mental health specialists. We also heard requests for suicide prevention workshops and for follow-up support for those who have tried to take their own lives.

I will let Mr. Patterson continue on page 60.

Committee Motion 27-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 22, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 27-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 22, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This Is What We Recommend Regarding Issues Which Affect Children And Youth

Mr. Chairman, young people should be given the opportunity to contribute their views within the community. They should have the chance to provide input to the process of developing policies and programs designed for them. These measures could help them to feel more involved, reflect their worth as individuals and help them to feel that they have a stake in the community. Our youth should also be provided with case studies of positive role models and local success stories as part of this process.

Government has a role to play if we are to more effectively integrate young people into the community. There must be far more cooperation and coordination between departments on matters that concern the health and quality of life of people aged 18 years and younger.

Shelter is one area in which more must be done. Local authorities should be encouraged and helped to provide temporary safe shelters or drop-in centres for young people. These shelters could offer companionship and a brief respite from a difficult home life.

Overcrowding in the home is another shelter-related issue that affects our youth. The scope of this problem needs to be determined and practical solutions need to be identified. At the same time, the government should more strongly oppose the Government of Canada's decision to practically eliminate federal funding of public housing in the North.

Communication with our youth must become a greater priority. Information dealing with a range of issues that concern young people must be provided. Communications should also be used to encourage young people, and especially aboriginal students, to pursue employment in the health and social service sectors. This would build upon other measures like the health careers material released by the Department of Health.

Mr. Chairman, these and other communication activities must be relevant to the young people they are supposed to serve. Conventional printed materials are not as effective as they once might have been. More use of film, videos and other media should be considered. Workshops and other groups activities should also be used. these may encourage participants to

discuss their questions, share their concerns and exchange information on issues that concern them.

Committee Motion 28-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 23, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommend that ways must be found to communicate more effectively with young people to raise their awareness of health and social issues that affect them. Thank you.

Committee Motion 28-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 23, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. We don't have a quorum to deal with the motion. Would you ring the bell. We have a quorum. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 28-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 23, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 28-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 23, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 28-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 23, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is important that our youth be encouraged to pursue their education or careers. Their own future prospects and those of the Northwest Territories rest upon an educated and skilled population in the years ahead. Unfortunately, a number of young students and workers are having difficulty pursuing these activities because they must look after their babies or those of other family members. This must be addressed so that students or single mothers and other family members can continue their education or jobs.

Committee Motion 29-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 24, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee recommend that measures to establish in-school and workplace child care services for young parents should be encouraged and supported. Thank you.

Committee Motion 29-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 24, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 29-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 24, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 29-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 24, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 29-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 24, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think we do acknowledge that there are facilities of this kind in place in some schools already. I think that has been acknowledged before.

The Northwest Territories needs a permanent solution on the issue of child care. The current system suffers from too few spaces, no resources for capital improvements, insufficient operating grants, and too little staff training, among other problems. We can no longer afford to carry on with interim policies. The stakes are too high. Public consultations should be held to determine needs and to identify the elements of a lasting solution.

Committee Motion 30-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 268

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommend that a permanent child care policy must be established. Thank you.

Committee Motion 30-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Committee Motion 30-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

I just wonder if there was a particular purpose in having the word "permanent" in there? I would have thought that a child care policy is a policy which sticks. You may want to change it a little bit. But I don't see a clear reason why you have to have that word in there.

Committee Motion 30-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Can we have clarification from the Member of the special committee, Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 30-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reason the motion was worded in this way is we understand that the government's current child care policy is called an interim child care policy. "Permanent" is seen as the opposite of "interim." That's the reason for this motion, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Committee Motion 30-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. To the motion.

Committee Motion 30-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 30-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 30-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We originally planned to prepare a legislative action paper on child welfare. However, the Departments of Justice and Social Services assured us that this would be completed by the fall session, based on the recommendations of the family law review. As a result, we chose not to pursue this issue ourselves. We remain disappointed at the apparent lack of progress in implementing the recommendations of the Family Law Review. The proposed reforms are too important to let slip away. We support the work done to date and we urge that it be continued on a priority basis.

Committee Motion 31-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 26, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommend that the recommendations of the family law review must be implemented quickly. The new legislative framework should be presented to the Legislative Assembly by March 31, 1994. Thank you.

Committee Motion 31-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 26, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 31-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 26, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 31-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 26, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 31-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 26, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Foster homes and parents should be selected on the basis of the quality of care likely to be provided the children. The rules governing the selection and monitoring of foster homes should be reviewed. The system should focus less on technicalities and more on finding a safe and responsible home environment for children in need. Greater attention should also be placed on the needs and concerns of foster parents. They should be provided with as much information as possible about the children placed in their care. There is an ongoing need for support and training for foster parents.

Committee Motion 32-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommend that new and more practical criteria governing the selection, development and monitoring of foster homes must be developed.

Committee Motion 32-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 32-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 32-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent, proceed.

Committee Motion 32-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 27, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We often heard people talk about children as being our future here in the NWT. As we travelled, we saw that some of our children need help if they are to live up to their potential to contribute to this future. Regional and local staff who see children in need of early intervention to address their special needs need to know where to go for the expertise and funds to be able to help. For those who might be missed in an early intervention program, and to deal with problems which might occur later, Social Services should be encouraged to put staff in schools to work with teachers to assist young people at risk.

In a time of tight money, one obvious source of funds for such intervention is the federal brighter futures program. Prompt action to make these funds available to NWT communities is absolutely necessary. Mr. Chairman, as a side note, I understand that such a deal with brighter futures has now been signed and that the program is now available in the Northwest Territories. The committee congratulates the government on taking such action. I hope they will encourage communities to take advantage of the funds that are available and the programs that could be put in place through that funding. But, Mr. Chairman, that would only address part of the problem.

Committee Motion 33-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 28, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 269

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

So, therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommend that interdepartmental agreements must be put in place quickly to ensure that early intervention services are available right away. Due to the urgency of this matter, a report must be provided to the Legislative Assembly during the 1994 winter session.

Committee Motion 33-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 28, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 270

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Dent. I don't have a program here. The motion is in order. To the motion, please.

Committee Motion 33-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 28, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 270

An Hon. Member

Question

Committee Motion 33-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 28, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 270

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Carried.

---Carried

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 33-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 28, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 270

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are into the last section of our report. It deals with people with addictions.

People With Addictions

This Is What We Heard About Addictions

Mr. Chairman, this is what we heard about addictions. Addiction is a major factor behind many health and social service problems in the Northwest Territories. Our ability to address these problems today will largely determine the demands that may be placed on our front line workers tomorrow. We asked people for their views on the nature of the problem and the manner in which it should be addressed. Here is what we heard.

Addiction Remains One Of Our Greatest Challenges

Front line workers we surveyed identified alcohol and drugs as the major issues facing their communities.

This self-destructive behaviour produces physical, psychological, social, economic and legal problems for people with addictions, their families and their communities. We heard of the terrific difficulties that people and officials face just trying to keep illegal alcohol and drugs from entering their areas.

The human and social cost of this problem is enormous. It seems to play a role in most of the cases handled through our community health centres. It is linked to many of the local offenses and criminal matters that come before the courts. We heard that there is a clear connection between addiction and domestic abuse, sexual assault and the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.

We Need More Effective Treatment And Support Services

We heard requests for more and better means of providing care for people with addictions, their families and communities. There are a number of problems to be resolved before that can happen. Many people still do not have a complete understanding of the nature and dangers of substance abuse. There is a lack of cooperation between government officials. There is even confusion about which department or departments are responsible for addressing these issues. There is also a shortage of adequate community-based treatment and follow-up programs.

We heard that current treatment methods are not working. We were told that there are too few detoxification facilities in the Northwest Territories to properly accommodate the number of people waiting to take the 28 day rehabilitation treatment program. Additional arrangements must be explored if we are to cope with the volume of patients. One option may lie in those hospitals which are not operating at full capacity. A number of hospital beds are currently going unused. It was suggested that they could be used as part of our detoxification program, but this program is seen as largely ineffective if no other treatment or follow-up measures are provided.

People support a system of care that treats the whole family instead of people with addictions alone. Respected elders should be considered as counsellors to individuals and families. There are also requests for more effective public education activities.

Gambling Has Become Recognized As An Addiction

We heard that gambling has become more than just a popular fund raising and personal pastime; it has become addiction in its own right. Bingo, played in halls over the radio, is clearly a concern to the people of most communities. We were told of alcoholics who have switched their addiction to gambling.

A number of social programs have been linked to this increase in bingo and other gambling activities. These problems include neglect of children by their parents, people betting away social assistance payments, absenteeism from work and the total disruption of family life.

People proposed a number of solutions to address these and other gambling related problems. These actions include restricting lottery licences and prize money and legislating the number of games allowed in a community during the year.

People With Addictions

This Is What We Recommend In The Area Of Addictions

Mr. Chairman, this is what we recommend in the area of addictions. Proper and effective treatment and follow up programs should be provided to people with addictions. These programs should encourage the involvement of the family as a whole and not just be limited to the affected individual.

Everyone has a role to play in these activities. The people of our communities need to unite and confront their problems together. We must support one another in our effort to promote sobriety, a drug-free society and a healthier lifestyle.

Part of the process of treating addiction is recognizing that there is a problem in the first place. Gambling should therefore be recognized and treated as an addiction every bit as serious as alcohol and drugs.

Government can not hope to counter the problem of addiction on its own. A number of non-governmental organizations are important partners in this effort. These groups should be encouraged and supported in their activities.

Despite best efforts to control the flow of alcohol and drugs, a number of other substances are available to people with addictions. These include a range of solvents, gasoline and other products that can cause serious harm to individuals, their families and the community if misused. Unfortunately, these products are readily available.

I'd like to start with recommendation number 29, Mr. Chairman. Too many people remain unaware or unconvinced of the dangers of addiction. Conventional communications activities are not working. We must improve our public information activities if measures to fight this problem are to be successful.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 270

Fred Koe Inuvik

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommend that more effective public education programs must be developed which outline the dangers of addiction, including gambling and solvent abuse.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Koe. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? Was that a motion? Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, just with regard to gambling. Is the intent of the motion to also have zero tolerance in that area too? We can have legislation that can be created for casinos, or is that out of the question with regard to this motion? We are in a time, Mr. Chairman, where I think we do have financial problems. We have to look at other ways of creating revenues. I thought in the Yukon they were looking at legislation to create casinos. I don't support gambling but I just wanted some clarification on that, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Indeed, I understand there is a plan to try and see if we can make money on casinos and gambling. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

Fred Koe Inuvik

At this stage the committee is not recommending zero tolerance to gambling. What it is recommending is that a communication program of some sort has to be developed and include gambling in it. Currently there are pamphlets, videos and different information about drugs and alcohol but there is nothing out on gambling. One of the biggest concerns from our front line workers and from all our people is that gambling is a problem and should be recognized. One of the greatest roadblocks in attempting to deal with any kind of addiction is the widespread denial that there is a problem. In this report we are attempting to report very clearly that it is a problem, it is recognized by those who work in the area, I think it's recognized by individuals who have the problem. We are encouraging the government to get the information out to the public in the most effective way possible. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Koe. To the motion. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I think in this case you have to look at the less of two evils. In most communities that have dealt with addiction problems -- and when I refer to addiction in this case it's alcohol addiction -- most people will go to the second best thing and that's gambling. I don't know whether encouraging something like this would drive them back to drinking or not. I just thought I would bring that up as a concern because I know a lot of front line workers who are going to bingos and gambling as an alternative to drinking. That's just a concern I want to express.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Most of the sins we have, like smoking, snuff and drinking beer, the government taxes; the idea is that if you tax something it will have some effect on people's behaviour. But this one addiction, this gambling business, is not legislated, it's not something that you can easily tax. Every other government looks at these sins that people engage in to find ways of squeezing the money out of it. We've always been afraid to legislate gambling because it would seem to condone it. It would seem to say it's okay. It's okay to have beer and it's okay to have all these other things, and we have all these things available to us that are supposed to damage your health and cause you trouble and difficulty. If you really want to have the same consistency, if you like, in the way we handle our sins, we should try to find ways to tax it. The claim is that if you tax something it will change it somehow. I don't know if there's that much logic to it but I have noted that that's one thing you can't tax because whatever you win, you win.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the motion.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 34-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 29, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Members. Recommendation 30. Communities wishing to rid themselves of alcohol and drugs face a number of problems. Smuggling and other illegal activities ensure that there is a supply for those willing to pay the price. Local officials and volunteers should be encouraged in their efforts to control these substances.

Committee Motion 35-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 30, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 271

Fred Koe Inuvik

Local measures to reduce the flow of alcohol and illegal drugs into our communities must be actively supported.

Committee Motion 35-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 30, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 35-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 30, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 35-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 30, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 35-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 30, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 35-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 30, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, committee members. Recommendation 31. More effective treatment is required for people with addictions who have been convicted of criminal activity. Jails are clearly not addressing the problem. Incarceration is no substitute for rehabilitation. Community-oriented solutions should be encouraged. One such approach is the use of healing, bush and youth camps. A number of these projects are just getting started. They are helping people to take greater control over their lives by teaching them how to live on the land. These camps also involve respected elders and other local residents as counsellors.

Committee Motion 36-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 31, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

Fred Koe Inuvik

Land-based programs for the treatment of people with addictions, and as an alternative to imprisonment, must be established.

Committee Motion 36-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 31, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 36-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 31, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 36-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 31, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 36-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 31, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 36-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 31, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, committee. Recommendation 32. The government should carefully consider the social costs of gambling as it reviews the lottery systems that have been proposed in the north. The objective should be to reduce rather than to increase gambling opportunities. Current gaming laws and regulations should be reviewed to ensure that the social costs associated with gambling are minimized.

Committee Motion 37-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 32, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

Fred Koe Inuvik

Local initiatives to reduce the negative effects of gambling on the community must be supported.

Committee Motion 37-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 32, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 37-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 32, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 37-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 32, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 37-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 32, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Are there any further comments? Mr. Dent.

Closing Remarks

Committee Motion 37-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 32, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, that concludes our report. I would like to make a few concluding remarks. Mr. Chairman, I would like to express my thanks to all the current Members and former Members of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. I think that all the Members who have been on the committee will agree that this has been a very intense and demanding undertaking.

The Members of the Special Committee spent a lot of time listening to people across the Northwest Territories and then trying to reflect what they told us back in our report. Mr. Chairman, we heard a lot about the pain that people were feeling and that many people faced across the Northwest Territories. We also heard about some success stories. Usually those were success stories where local people had taken the initiative to deal with local problems.

Mr. Chairman, we feel it is critical that the narrow clinical approach, now taken by Health and Social Services, must be replaced with an holistic approach. We need to get people at the community level more involved in shaping and delivering programs and services to make them relevant.

Mr. Chairman, I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the people of the north. So many of them came out in large numbers to tell us how they thought our system of health and social services could be improved. I would like to express thanks to our committee staff, Mark Nicoll, David Hamilton, Rhoda Perkison, Goo Arlooktoo and those who made our travel arrangements and the arrangements in the communities we visited.

Mr. Chairman, the Members of the committee are committed to seeing the changes we recommend take place. We put the government on notice that over the next two years, we will keep the pressure on.

On that line, we have one final recommendation to make which deals with a report from the government. The committee, Mr. Chairman, has made a number of recommendations with some specific deadlines for responses. However, Mr. Chairman, your committee feels a comprehensive response to the committee's report is essential.

Committee Motion 38-12(4): That Government Present Comprehensive Report, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 272

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Therefore, I move that, in accordance with rule 93(5), the Executive Council table a comprehensive response to the special committee report within 120 days of presentation of the report.

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Page 272

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. I would like to get a copy of that motion. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 38-12(4): That Government Present Comprehensive Report, Carried
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Page 272

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 38-12(4): That Government Present Comprehensive Report, Carried
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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Does this committee agree that the Special Committee on Health and Social Services Committee Report 1-12(4), is concluded?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(4): That Government Present Comprehensive Report, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. What does the committee wish to do next? Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 38-12(4): That Government Present Comprehensive Report, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, since the Minister of Health is not available, we will continue with the departmental budgets and we will start with Social Services. Thank you.

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Page 273

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95

Committee Report 3-12(4), Review Of The 1994-95 Capital Estimates

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Would the Minister of Social Services like to make opening remarks?

Department Of Social Services, Introductory Remarks

Committee Motion 38-12(4): That Government Present Comprehensive Report, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to present the Department of Social Services 1994-95 capital estimates which include 12 projects totalling approximately $3.8 million. The major thrust of the department for the coming year are: in family and children's services, to commence planning for a group home to be constructed in Hay River in 1996-97; in community and family support services, to build group homes for the handicapped in Rankin Inlet and Inuvik.

The remainder of the budget is for renovations to existing facilities, purchase of minor furniture and equipment and planning and design for new facilities.

As you know, the federal government recently cancelled its rural and native housing program which provides cost-sharing

for elders' facilities. Efforts are now under way to identify alternate means of funding these facilities in the future.

Since these capital estimates were presented to the Standing Committee on Finance, a decision has been made to defer the elders' facility for Fort Resolution for one year until 1995-96. This will allow for continued negotiations with the federal government on cost-sharing. This reduces the 1994-95 budget by $827,000.

This concludes my opening remarks, Mr. Chairman. I will be happy to answer any questions that Members may have. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(4): That Government Present Comprehensive Report, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Does the Standing Committee on Finance have opening remarks? Mr. Ng.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Committee Motion 38-12(4): That Government Present Comprehensive Report, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

The committee is not convinced that the overall allocation of capital dollars to the Department of Social Services is in keeping with the government's stated priorities for capital spending. It appears that current levels of funding for this department may represent an inadequate investment in the well-being of so many of our citizens.

The committee understands that there have been several senior management changes recently and are hopeful that this signals a much needed change in direction. Committee Members expect the department to support next year's capital forecast with a long range plan that includes the following elements.

A)An inventory of existing facilities in each region, including:

- family violence shelters;

- family and multi-purpose group homes;

- handicapped adults group homes;

- child welfare facilities;

- alcohol and drug treatment centres;

- elders' residences; and,

- psychiatric halfway houses.

B)A coordinated five to ten year strategy which includes the following analyses:

- comprehensive regional needs assessment developed through extensive community consultation;

- substantiation of projects based on the achievement of desired results;

- cost/benefit assessments of various proposed initiatives such as the repatriation of clients treated or cared for outside of the Northwest Territories; and,

- integration wherever practical with existing and planned health care facilities.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Social Services develop a comprehensive capital planning strategy to guide the development of capital forecasts for the fiscal year 1994-95 and beyond.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 273

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Before I call for general comments, I wonder if the Minister would like to bring in her officials at this time? Minister of Social Services.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 274

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Mr. Chairman, yes, the officials are here.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 274

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Sergeant-at-Arms, could you escort the officials? Before we begin, Madam Minister, would you introduce your witnesses at this time?

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 274

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left is Mr. Ken Lovely, Deputy Minister. On my right is John Doyle, Director of Finance.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 274

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Gargan.

General Comments

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 274

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I have a short comment. I wanted to express my appreciation to the Minister for visiting my constituency the weekend of the 6 and 7. I showed the Minister several single units that are being shared, the kitchen areas and the bathroom areas. Most of the senior citizens have their own, individual units but for some reason when the building was first constructed, it was built with the understanding that portions of the building would be used for number two care. This is not the case.

Most of the seniors in Providence are independent. They do everything on their own. I hope that you could look at doing some minor renovations so those units are individualized. Thank you.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 274

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
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Page 274

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. From what I understand with the Fort Providence elders' facility, it was built through the Housing Corporation. I would agree that those units that don't have private entrances have to be fixed. I will be discussing this matter with the Minister of the Housing Corporation. Thank you.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 274

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments and questions. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 274

Fred Koe Inuvik

I would just like to make some general comments. A lot of the issues that we raised over the last couple of years have been brought up in the report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services that we just concluded. I would like to bring up a couple of issues that concern me and that have some impact on my constituency.

In the area of family and children's services, we mentioned foster care. There are a lot of concerns we have in foster care, the level of homes and the use of home in communities. We encourage this and even more, we encourage the use of aboriginal homes. There has to be a lot of work, development, training and coordination so that those homes that are available, and that meet the criteria that is required, can be utilized.

The area of custom adoption is another area that has to be looked at. I know a number of Members have raised specific concerns about that, but I just wanted to raise that issue. In terms of alcohol and drugs, the Inuvik region has a 12-bed treatment centre in Inuvik. For that whole region there are no detox facilities. I know it is in the five year plan to have some sort of alcohol and drug treatment centre, and I hope that those plans include detox facilities.

I know the Standing Committee on Finance made some recommendations last year. I hope that the department takes those into consideration in their planning. I hope there will be adequate consultation with the community and surrounding communities.

Another area in alcohol and drugs that I wish to mention is the use of training that is provided by different institutions. Currently, we put a lot of faith and focus on utilizing the people that are trained under the alcohol and drug programs. But, what I understand of that training is that it is not a comprehensive program. It doesn't have a lot of field work attached to it. People who have been trained through the Nechi program in Alberta seem more ready and fit to take on jobs in the community.

And, it is my understanding -- and I will be raising this at another level -- that this government doesn't recognize the Nechi Program and the certificates that people from that program come out with, trained as alcohol and drug counsellors. I would just like to raise that.

The other issue is elders. In my reply to the budget address today, I raised the issue that there is a need for a senior citizens' facility to include up to at least level three care in Inuvik. I will be pushing for that in the next round of capital planning. There have been letters written to the department in that regard and interest from various community organizations who are now starting to put a local committee together to do the research. Those are just some general comments I wanted to make. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 274

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 274

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Following on Mr. Koe's comments, I want to make a comment related to alcohol and drug facilities. It is fine to plan and build capital facilities -- and we finally have one under construction in the Baffin region -- but I have to alert the Minister and her staff that if something is not urgently done to address the wage scales of alcohol and drug workers, this facility in the Baffin region is going to have serious problems attracting staff.

I just want to emphasize the urgency of dealing with this issue, or we'll have a fine capital facility but inadequate staff or an inability to attract qualified staff to do a good job of running it. I'm very impressed with the facility. I'm very impressed with the work that has been done on the program, particularly involving families. But, I must emphasize again, that unless the wage scale issue is addressed urgently -- and the present wage scales do not take into account the cost of living in the Baffin or other comparable jobs that people can get -- this beautiful new facility is going to be crippled from the beginning.

I realize we're discussing a capital budget now and these comments may not be entirely appropriate, Mr. Chairman, but these capital facilities have to be staffed by capable people. The good investment in the facility has to be followed by good investment in training and staff, if we're going to make use of these very important facilities. I see this as a major issue that is going to have to be dealt urgently. If the Minister can make a comment on that issue, I would be grateful. Otherwise, I fear for the very survival of the program in the new Baffin regional facility. Thank you.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 275

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
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Page 275

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think, first of all, we should concentrate on completing the building because -- as I understand it -- it is still under construction. I agree that there is wage disparity among the alcohol counsellors. But we are dealing with the capital budget. I can not really talk about the operations and maintenance part of the building which has yet to be completed. Up until such time, I really can not make any further comments, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 275

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

General comments. Mr. Patterson.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 275

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, I understand the building is under construction but the target date for implementing the program is the new fiscal year. The problem that the department is facing now is, although funds have been set aside for training, the people who are considering taking up the opportunities for training want to know what kind of a job is at the end of the training. We're talking April 1, 1994 as far as I know. We're having real problems attracting people even to take training because the jobs at the end are simply not attractive to people who want to work in this field.

It is an urgent problem and it is related to the capital facility. We can't just wait to finish the building and say, we'll turn to the staffing problem later. It's got to be dealt with urgently now, as I see it, in order to even get people into the training programs so that we will be able to run the facility when it's completed. Thank you.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 275

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Madam Minister.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 275

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member always has a wonderful way of rewording what was said. I am aware that we do have a problem with wage parity -- not just among alcohol counsellors -- and the department is trying to do something about it. I'd like to thank the Member who keeps reminding me about it. I am certainly concerned myself, as the Minister responsible. I'm not taking this lightly. I take it very seriously. If there are extra dollars available, the first step I will take is to increase the wages of alcohol and drug workers. In times of restraint with no new revenues coming in, I'm having a very difficult time identifying extra dollars that the Member is speaking of. Thank you.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 275

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 275

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The comments that I'm making haven't been made in SCOF because I feel that I wanted to save them for the House. In reviewing the budget for Social Services, I find that there is no support for shelter homes for individuals across the north. I'm fortunate that in my constituency there is a shelter home. However, there are many places in other areas of the north that do not have them. I believe that this department has to start looking at some mechanism to address them. I recognize that it's mainly done through O and M, but we've got to find some method to address them and there doesn't seem to be any funding in here. The only type of funding that they have is through contribution on family violence programs.

Having said that, Mr. Chairman, there is also a significant need for second stage housing in the north for battered spouses or whomever, so that they are able to leave these types of shelter homes and make the transition into society a lot easier. I believe there are only two second stage houses in the territories, one here in Yellowknife and one in Hay River. I can say that there are many communities that do need them. This department doesn't seem to have the planning to address it. I believe that they have to find a method in order to be able to address this.

The other comment that I want to make is there are so many different names for these facilities and there probably are different types of definitions. I think the department has to look at trying to streamline these types of facilities so that they can have names compatible to their needs. There's facilities such as emergency group homes, family group homes and different types of homes. It doesn't appear that it's clear to Members what the purpose of these institutions are.

Mr. Chairman, I did want to make another comment, though. When we get into the budget, I notice that there is funding allocation for an alcohol and drug treatment centre in Rankin Inlet. I certainly don't deny that particular region such a facility, but I believe it's the intention of the department to look at a nine bed facility. In my experience, in all the studies that have been commissioned for alcohol and drug treatment centres, nine bed facilities are not cost-feasible. I don't know whether the department has taken that into consideration. Institutions have to be at least a 15 bed facility in order to be cost-feasible. I'll probably be asking the Minister further questions when we get into that particular line by line.

Overall, I know there was concern expressed that there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive plan. I would urge the Minister and the department to start working towards a comprehensive plan to address the social issues we face in the north. Thank you.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 275

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Would the Minister like to reply?

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 275

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (Translation ends) (Microphone turned off)...NWT. The Member is correct. We have 71 beds all together that are funded through contributions through social services. I do recognize the fact that we need some planning along with the recommendations that were made by the Special Committee on Social Services and Health. Battered women, especially, are the ones who always have to leave the community. One of the recommendations -- if I recall correctly -- is that the abusers should be the ones to leave home. So, there are a whole range of recommendations and along with the plans that Social Services will be making, a definite plan will emerge.

With group homes, I do agree with the Member from Thebacha, that it is confusing when we have different names for group homes when they should just be called "group home." When the territorial government took over the one in Hay River, "Emergency Group Home" stuck from when it was operated by the federal government. We just adopted it that way. I do agree with the Member that we need a group home.

Concerning the Rankin Inlet Alcohol and Drug Treatment Centre, a nine-bed facility may not sound like very much, but I think it's enough for the population of a little over 7,000 people. There are people who have been saying that it should be put in a dry community, but that would just mean extra dollars for transporting people who need treatment to a dry community where there is a lot less of a drinking problem. I do recognize that Rankin Inlet is not a dry community and it is the biggest community in the Keewatin region. I know the problems with alcohol there are greater than any other community in the Keewatin region. Thank you.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 276

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 276

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask the Minister whether her department has done a study to determine whether or not a nine-bed facility is cost-feasible?

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 276

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Madam Minister. It seems to me that there's something wrong with the microphone. Member for Thebacha. Your microphone is not on. All the microphones are worn out.

---Laughter

Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 276

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

(Microphone turned off)

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 276

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

I would like to mention that the Member for Thebacha made a motion to report progress. The motion is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I will now rise and report progress. I would like to thank the witnesses at this time.

Committee Motion 39-12(4): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 276

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Sorry for a slight technical delay. There was a power surge that knocked the system off temporarily, but I think it's all back in order now. Item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Chairman.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 276

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Committee Report 1-12(4), Special Committee on Health and Social Services Final Report and Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95 and would like to report progress, and that Committee Report 1-12(4) is concluded with 17 motions being adopted. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 276

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Seconder to the motion, Mr. Koe. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Item 21, third reading of bills. Item 22, Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 276

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, meetings for tomorrow at 9:00 am of caucus and at 10:30 am of the Ordinary Members' Caucus. Orders of the day for Tuesday, November 30, 1993.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Oral Questions

6. Written Questions

7. Returns to Written Questions

8. Replies to Opening Address

9. Petitions

10. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

11. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

12. Tabling of Documents

13. Notices of Motion

14. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

15. Motions

16. First Reading of Bills

17. Second Reading of Bills

18. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Minister's Statement 3-12(4), Sessional Statement

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95

- Committee Report 3-12(4), Review of the 1994-95 Capital Estimates

- Committee Report 7-12(4), Review of DeLury and Associates Limited Contracts

- Committee Report 8-12(4), Final Report on the Elimination of the Highway Transport Board

- Tabled Document 11-12(4), Report from the Fort Providence/Cambridge Bay Strategic Planning Workshops

19. Report of Committee of the Whole

20. Third Reading of Bills

21. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 276

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Tuesday, November 30, 1993 at 1:30 pm.

---ADJOURNMENT