Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The chairperson has the discretion. In this case, many times during summer months especially when people are out on the land, he has not even half the choice of who he is going to get, except those people who are in town.
Debates of Feb. 18th, 1993
Topics
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 492
Rebecca Mike Baffin Central
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 492
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 492
Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Mr. Chairman, I do not believe my question has been answered. However, I believe that committee Members have a legitimate concern. I would like to ask the Minister if she would reconsider looking at her bill once again before presenting it to the House, to take into consideration the concern of Members by finding a method of how she wants to address her composition of a quorum and, at the same time, try to find out how it can be reflected in this bill. It is causing much concern among Members, such as, how does the chairperson determine who to contact to take part in the appeal committee process? What constitutes a quorum? How can you have three members as a quorum out of a membership of eight? I am sure there are many other questions posed by the Members. I would like to ask the Minister if she would reconsider or review her bill to address some of the legitimate concerns presented by the Members? Thank you.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 492
![The Chair](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/11-tony-whitford/105f4ea7b52656a29f4630008629dd25.jpg)
The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Madam Minister, would you take the bill back and reconsider it to answer the questions? However, there was a second part of the question, which asked, do you send out a general notice to the eight members that there is going to be an appeal committee struck and then pick no more than five of those respondents, but no fewer than three? That may have been the second part of the question. However, I will let you respond to the main part of the question which was whether you would reconsider this for clarification.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 492
Rebecca Mike Baffin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no problem in reconsidering it. I would like to say that an appeal committee is different from a finance committee. That is where things are getting a little bit confused.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 492
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 492
![Henry Zoe](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/11-henry-zoe/f806264046054a2efaef303b2779d5bf.jpg)
Henry Zoe North Slave
Mr. Chairman, I understand what the Minister is trying to do, particularly in the summer months, when you cannot find everyone in the community. The way the bill reads does not accomplish that because of the composition of the appeal committee. The minimum is three and the maximum is eight, within a particular community. Out of the maximum of eight people you appoint, which also includes the chairman, what you are saying is that if there is an appeal during the summer months, you want to have a minimum of three and a maximum of five to sit on the panel to hear the appeal. I know why you are suggesting that. It is because in smaller communities many people go out on the land and some are on holidays. If there is a case that has to be heard you want to make the quorum smaller.
The problem I see is that if you are appointing up to eight people, what happens if they are all available? The discretion is going to be left to the chairman, but that is not fair because they are already sitting on an appeal board. If they are all available they should all be able to attend. That is why you are appointing them. That is the problem I see.
I do not have a problem with the quorum part. If you want to make it three, so be it, to accomplish the summer scenario. You cannot limit the panel for only five when are you going to appoint up to a maximum of eight. If you raise it from five to eight then you can accomplish what you are trying to do. The panel is the problem because the discretion will be left to the chairman.
For instance, if I am appointed to sit on an appeal committee in a community where there are seven other people with me, if I am called upon and I am available, I want to go. I do not want to leave it up to someone else. That is why you as a Minister appointed me. Why would the chairman have that discretion? The panel business is the problem, Mr. Chairman. Mahsi.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
Rebecca Mike Baffin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I realize the concerns the Members have. This committee is not to the members' interests but it is to be fair to the person who has appealed.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
![Henry Zoe](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/11-henry-zoe/f806264046054a2efaef303b2779d5bf.jpg)
Henry Zoe North Slave
Mr. Chairman, this is not the point I am trying to make. I am not making reference to the client who is making the appeal. I am suggesting the appeal appointee, the appeal committee member, who the Minister appoints, this is the concern which I have. It is the panel. It you appoint eight and the panel says only a maximum of five then the other three, if they are available, will not be able to participate. The purpose of appointing them is so they can sit on the appeal board. If the appeal panel is increased from five to eight, it says, "the chairperson of the appeal committee shall for an appeal designate not fewer than three and not more than five members of the appeal committee." If you increase the number from five to eight I think the Minister will accomplish what she wants to do. This would be reflected in number two where it says, "The Minister cannot appoint more than eight members." If this section is changed I am sure the committee would make this go through. It is awkward when you appoint a maximum of eight and then you eliminate the panel when they are hearing appeals to only five members. This is where the problem is. Can the Minister respond to my comments, Mr. Chairman?
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
Rebecca Mike Baffin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have already indicated I will reconsider.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
![The Chair](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/11-tony-whitford/105f4ea7b52656a29f4630008629dd25.jpg)
The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you, Madam Minister. The chair recognizes Mr. Zoe, Mr. Arvaluk and then Mr. Pollard. Mr. Zoe.
Motion To Defer Bill 5
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
An Hon. Member
Question.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
![The Chair](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/11-tony-whitford/105f4ea7b52656a29f4630008629dd25.jpg)
The Chair Tony Whitford
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.
---Carried
We shall defer Bill 5. I would like to thank the Minister and her witness for appearing before the committee.
Is it the wish of the committee we move on to Bill 6? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that we report progress.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
![The Chair](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/11-tony-whitford/105f4ea7b52656a29f4630008629dd25.jpg)
The Chair Tony Whitford
There is a motion to report progress. The motion is not debateable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.
---Carried
We shall report progress.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 493
The Speaker Michael Ballantyne
Item 19, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Page 493
![The Chair](/media/CACHE/images/polpics/11-tony-whitford/105f4ea7b52656a29f4630008629dd25.jpg)
The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Bill 5 and wishes to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I recommend that you accept...
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Page 493
The Speaker Michael Ballantyne
Concur.
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Page 493
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Page 493
The Speaker Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Whitford, you will see just in front you there is a motion that you can read and make.