Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters we have Bill 5, Bill 6 and Bill 11 which we would like to deal with. Thank you.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the opportunity to present information on amendments to the Social Assistance Act. The changes to the Social Assistance Act will make provision for the confidentiality of information between the client and any department official involved in casework. The need to protect the client confidentiality in social assistance transactions is essential to the integrity of the social assistance program. Many jurisdictions in Canada have this aspect of the program covered in their legislation. It allows for the appointment of eight members to the social assistance appeal committee and social assistance appeal board. The chairperson of the committee or the board will be able to choose a panel of three to five persons from among the members of the committee or the board to hear an appeal.

Permanent regulations allow increases in social assistance payments to be made retroactively. With this change, increases, for example food rates, can be made earlier than the day on which the regulations were registered.

I am prepared to answer any questions Members may have. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Legislation also reviewed Bill 5, an Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act at its public meeting on December 7, 1992. The committee would like to thank the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea and officials from the Departments of Social Services and Justice for presenting the bill. The bill would amend the Social Assistance Act to revise the structure for social assistance appeals. Under the act people who have applied for social assistance or who receive social assistance may appeal a decision about their eligibility for social assistance or about the amount of money they may receive.

The first appeal is to the social assistance appeal committee. Decisions of appeal committees may be appealed further to the social assistance appeal board. Right now the act provides that the appeal committees must be composed of between three and five members each. This bill would provide that committees would be composed of up to eight members each. A panel of between three and five could then be designed by the chairperson to hear an appeal. This amendment would provide more flexibility in allocating members to hear appeals. Currently there is difficulty finding three to five committee members available at the same time to hear an appeal, particularly during the summer when many people are on the land.

The bill would also allow the chairperson of the appeal board to designate a panel of between three and five members to hear the appeal. This bill would also add sections to the act to protect the confidentiality of information acquired in the administration of the act. The bill would provide that any such information may not be disclosed except in the course of the person's duties. Specific exceptions would allow information to be disclosed with the consent of the person to whom the information relates, to the Financial Management Board and to other governments for the purpose of exchange of information about benefits. Similar provisions exist in other territorial legislation such as the Medical Care Act.

This bill also proposes amendments regarding regulations that are made under the act. The bill would validate certain social allowance payments that were made according to a food allowance rate table before the table was incorporated in a regulation, and would allow social assistance regulations to have retroactive effect back to the beginning of the fiscal year. This would enable the department to make payments according to new rates as soon as they are authorized without being required to wait for the registration of the regulation.

During the standing committee's review and discussions on Bill 5 it was noted that this bill would transfer the responsibility for making regulations, prescribing the amount of social assistance that may be given to persons in need, from the Minister to the Financial Management Board. This may be an issue that Members wish to pursue during committee of the whole.

Generally, the committee Members were in support of this bill and a motion was carried December 7, 1992, to report Bill 5 to the Assembly as ready for committee of the whole. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Diane Buckland as a witness. I do not know if my deputy minister is here or not.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Diane Buckland is legislative counsel from the legislative division of Justice.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In respect to this particular bill, it appears the Minister wants to amend the act to expand the appeal committees in the communities. The Minister wishes to expand the committee by three extra members. However, the quorum still stays the same being a quorum of three members. Taking out of an eight member board, why would she not allow the quorum to increase to five members? Why would she allow it to remain as three members? If I could get clarification on that particular item, Mr. Chairman, I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With the five member committee there was difficulty during the summer months when many of the families were out on the land to constitute a quorum on appeals. That was the reason it was increased was that when it was difficult to get a quorum it would allow the appeal process in the community to be easier.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The purpose of expanding the committee is probably to address the issue of a quorum, however I cannot understand why the quorum only constitutes three members. Generally a quorum is a majority of the composition of a board and the majority should be four, if not four plus one so you do not get a tie vote. I am wondering as to why the quorum is not increased. The members are increased according to the old act, yet the quorum is not increased. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. By increasing the membership of the appeal committee it was difficult at five members to constitute a quorum. If we increased the number and have three members constitute a quorum, this will allow the process to go through.

Mr. Chairman, my concern is not being addressed. I recognize the fact that the members are expanding and I recognize the community or the appeal committee may have in retrieving members, particularly during certain times of the year. However, I am concerned that you want to expand your board, but at the same time not consistently expand your quorum requirements and it may pose a problem. In any general democratic process the quorum is the majority of the board or half of the majority plus one. This is below what you usually need for a quorum. I take, for example, a quorum in this House is 12 plus one. You are really not changing the quorum on this, you are adhering to the old quorum and I do not find it being consistent with quorum requirements. Therefore, I would like to ask the Minister if consideration will be given to increasing the amount

for a quorum since she has taken the time to increase the amount for membership requirement? Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I will let Diane Buckland respond to the Member's concern.