This is page numbers 469 - 494 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

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Question 263-12(3): Responsibility Of Education Fees For Inmates
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Page 480

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, you do not have an easy job and in this case you are being asked to balance the noble right of freedom of speech with, as Mr. Nerysoo pointed out, the rights of individuals. I believe that even the convicted criminal has some rights. As was pointed out, we should be mindful, in this House, that an individual about whom questions are asked, has no right of reply. I must say, Mr. Speaker, that I have been quite appalled at some of the personal attacks on individuals, in this House, by name, where the individual has no right of reply. I am not going to pontificate about what your

ruling should be on this matter, but I suggest that the dignity of this House requires that, wherever possible, these issues should be pursued as questions of policy, without exposing people who have no right of reply, to the potential for being victimized. Thank you.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Are there other comments on this issue? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is in respect to following up on some of my concerns. Even though it does appall some Members, it is a concern to my constituents. I want to indicate, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister has a statutory responsibility to exercise certain duties related to individuals in the correctional system and I, as a Member, hold him accountable. Members should be able to ask questions that allow the performance of that duty to be exercised. The only way to do that is to ask about these individuals. The manner the Minister had replied to me appeared to impute motives of placing a barrier before my ability to ask questions, which he has a statutory obligation to fulfil. Therefore, I ask that you make a ruling on our freedom of speech, which allows us as Members, to decide how we can govern ourselves within the ruling of freedom of speech. Thank you.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Are there any other comments? Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, I do not have the rules in front of me, nor do I have the Beauchesne's book in front of me, but one of the things that Mrs. Marie-Jewell has said is with regard to the reaction of her constituency and to certain individuals being treated in a certain way. I think it is a matter of whether or not she is aboriginal or non-native, or whether or not the aboriginal people have been treated much more differently than a non-native aboriginal. In this case, I question whether or not the justice system has suggested a deterrence and we, as a government, are not doing anything to deter that. It is very wrong for us to try and serve the public and give them answers, and at the same time, we are not doing anything about certain individuals, in the opinion of the public, who are given special treatment.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Members, please, I will ask again, if they could try to contain their comments within the parameters of giving me advice about the actual matter of privilege before us. Are there any other comments? Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, in my view, the questioning should stay focused, without naming particular individuals, on the policy of this government and the federal government, and how people, who are sentenced to incarceration, are dealt with. It is a raging debate, it has been for many years, as to whether or not the intent is for punitive measures or for a measure more toward rehabilitation. The federal legislation contains a line such as saying "the least restrictive measures of incarceration" should be used as much as possible. Even federal legislation points in that direction. The debate, in my opinion, is not so much about whether or not Members should be restricting their questioning. I do not think that is the case. Even the freedom of speech, in any definition, has restrictions on it, but the points can be raised and the focus can be clear. It could be done without naming particular individuals. By questioning the legislation and the way in which we carry out our respective mandates and the kind of policies that the federal government and this government follows in regard to incarceration and institutionalizing inmates. Thank you.

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Page 481

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

All right. I think the issue is quite clear. I want to thank both sides for their contribution. I think it is a very important question. I am going to take some time to reflect on the response. Obviously, the rules will play a precedent. The lesson for all of us is that it is very difficult, at times, to define our various roles in a modern Legislative Assembly and that common sense and a sense of fair play in all these matters must really prevail. I will try to get back to honourable Members as soon as I can with a judgement. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question 264-12(3): Honorariums To WCB Members
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Page 481

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board. Yesterday, the Minister had announced appointments on the Workers' Compensation Board. I would like to ask the Minister if he could indicate to this House what the honorarium is paid to members of the Workers' Compensation Board?

Question 264-12(3): Honorariums To WCB Members
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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Wray.

---Laughter

---Applause

Question 264-12(3): Honorariums To WCB Members
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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Some scotsmen look a lot alike. Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The honorariums for the Workers' Compensation Board are $375 a day while we are in session. I have a detailed list, if you would like, of what each member did get last year. At the present time, it is $375 a day, plus for out of town people, $150 a day for expenses.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Todd. I apologize for the freudian slip. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 264-12(3): Honorariums To Wcb Members
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, would the Minister be able to give us the total cost of honorariums for members, I think he said $375 a day plus $150 for out of town expenses. What is the cost per member for the honorariums paid out by the Workers' Compensation Board?

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I can table the document or I can read it out, whatever way you want. The

total cost last year in honorariums for the board of directors, the appeal tribunal and the claims of safety and education was $286,218. Those were the honorariums. I do have it broken down by individual, and I would be prepared to table that document should you so wish.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, may I ask the Minister if he will make a commitment to Members in this House to table that particular document? Thank you.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

I would be delighted.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Question 265-12(3): Policy On Inmate Exchange
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February 17th, 1993

Page 482

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Justice. I would like to ask the Minister to state the present policy with regard to the exchange of inmates between territorial, provincial and the federal government.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, there is an agreement, as I indicated earlier, that we have signed with the federal government. The federal legislation says, in so many words, that as much as possible the people who are to serve time in a federal institution should serve time as close to their home community as possible. We have difficulty with that in the Northwest Territories. We have limited bed space for inmates who require a certain level of security. In the case of inmates who are unilingual, for instance, inmates who are not considered to be a threat to the community or other inmates, in the opinion of the federal government, are best served by being placed in the Northwest Territories. We have agreed to a maximum of 30 units per year to take those inmates on behalf of the federal government and have them serve their time up here. There are many inmates here who serve almost double of what we have agreed to. We have gone beyond what we have agreed to take from the federal government, so there is some discussion on updating this agreement. We had discussions with the Solicitor General about one month ago in Ottawa regarding that particular agreement. That is what the policy of this government is.

My intent, as a Minister, is to come to some agreement with the federal government to take all federal inmates from the north, who are spending time in the south, who we can handle. We would be very interested in pursuing this and I have indicated this to the federal government. We would be interested in negotiating some arrangement with the federal government so that all federal inmates, except for the exceptional cases, should be brought home to serve their sentences in the Northwest Territories. We should, as a government, look towards making the type of facilities they require available as soon as possible. Thank you.

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.