Thank you. I understand the primary difficulty was, as the Minister indicated, drawing enough people from the number five. Once the number is increased to eight it will be easier, from those eight, to find three who are available. The principle of the quorum is often a majority. These will be set up very much like the court system is set up. The court of appeal can sit with only three members even though the number of members constituting the court of appeal is much greater than that, it may be ten or 11. It is an administrative mechanism to allow the appeal process to go on smoothly even when everyone may not be available. As I say it is just an administrative mechanism to make it work more smoothly. If the quorum were to be increased I do not know that the problem would be solved, they would still have difficulty getting enough people on the committee to be available for each appeal. Thank you.
Debates of Feb. 18th, 1993
Topics
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Buckland
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
I an very concerned, Mr. Chairman, that the principle, as Ms. Buckland has stated, of the quorum is not being adhered to. I am concerned once you put a bill like this in and the chairman knows that only three members make a quorum there is nothing preventing that chairman from only calling possibly four members to hear an appeal as opposed to calling all eight, knowing they can get a quorum. That sometimes causes problems. If you are bringing this bill in for administrative purposes only, I do not think it is addressing the concerns of the community. The appeal committee is looked upon in the community as the last resort for concerns regarding the Social Assistance Act. I would like to move under clause three, Mr. Chairman, that it be amended from three members constitute a quorum to five members constitute a quorum. Thank you.
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. When we get to that clause you can make that motion. We will need to take a break to have it translated into French and Inuktitut. Mr. Koe.
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Fred Koe Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Bill 5, as my colleague mentioned, is to increase the committee members on an appeal committee. How many committees presently exist in the Northwest Territories? Mr. Chairman, when we are speaking of quorums, I do not see a quorum here.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Koe. The chair does not recognize a quorum. We will ask the clerk to sound the bell.
Thank you, the committee will resume now that we have a quorum. Mr. Koe.
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Fred Koe Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. How many social appeal committees exist in the territories?
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are 43 appeal committees in the Northwest Territories.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Fred Koe Inuvik
I would like to get an idea of their work load. How many appeals are being dealt with, not by each committee but collectively? Are they doing a great deal of work?
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central
Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Mr. Blair Dunbar to the witness table.
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The Chair Tony Whitford
Yes, Madam Minister. Would the Sergeant-at-Arms escort the witness. Does the committee agree that an additional witness be allowed into the committee?
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is Mr. Blair Dunbar, deputy minister.
Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Tony Whitford
Welcome to the committee, Mr. Dunbar. We have a question on the floor posed by Mr. Koe concerning the number of committees and the amount of work they are undertaking. Would the witness be prepared to answer this question? Madam Minister.
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will let Mr. Dunbar respond.
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Dunbar
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The work load for the committees vary. I do not have statistics available for the work load of each committee. We could endeavour to put this together. It would take a bit of time as we would have to go back and collect the data. It is not data which we normally collect. It varies for two reasons. Some of the committees also serve in expanded functions, they also serve in an advisory capacity to the department in many respects. Some committee work loads are heavier than others because they have taken on additional responsibilities to assist the staff in discharging their duties. The other area is dependent upon the number of individuals who are receiving assistance who do not feel they have received the proper amounts. I do not have that information at the moment.
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Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
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Fred Koe Inuvik
I did not want the exact amount. Is it one appeal per year or does it average ten, 20, or 200? I am trying to establish the need for these committees. Is there a need?
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, there is a definite need for these appeal committees in the communities.
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