This is page numbers 637 - 662 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Yes, Mr. Chairman, because of restraint we have not changed the $71,000 contribution to the association. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I ask the Minister if he agrees that this could be a very useful resource organization for municipalities especially in a community transfer initiative and ask if he will, in spite of restraint, look for a method of finding more funds to provide to this very important organization in the next year?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister Allooloo.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we could look at the funding again to see if we can improve it. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a comment just to add to what my colleague from Thebacha was saying. I think the department is going to have to re-examine its priorities when it comes to the home owners property tax rebate. If I understand correctly, this is the activity under which that would fall. I think that the property tax rebate has served a very useful purpose. I think, as came out earlier when Mr. Koe was asking questions with the new approach to government housing and increased home ownership, that this government needs to find some way to make people feel better about owning their own homes. This sort of program which was set up to accomplish this could be very important. The department's response to the committee recommendation last year, and last year the Standing Committee on Finance also recommended that this program be improved, I found paternalistic. The approach was that perhaps the rebate had not been passed on to taxpayers. I do not think it is up to the department to make comments about whether or not a municipality may have found a way to get the rebate into the home owners hands and whether or not they have increased taxes to account for the fact that the rebate is coming. The goal is that this government was intending to increase home ownership and by doing that was putting money directly in the home owners hands. It is up to the votes in a municipality to ensure that they are getting good local representation. I just wanted to make the point that I was not impressed to the response to the committee recommendation last year which was in respect to the property tax rebate.

I would like to comment on the system of preparing this document that we are now considering. The Standing Committee on Finance noted, when we were reviewing the individual tasks, the payment in lieu of taxes -- the amount that was put in this budget for payments to municipalities for payments in lieu of taxes -- did not show any increase over what was provided last year. The Minister advised that this was because inflationary increases were not put in, but rather that the government waited until municipality mill rates were set and then would come back to the Legislature with supplementary requests for funding. I think it makes it difficult for us, as a Legislature, to assess a budget if we do not get some kind of accurate forecast. While I recognize there is no way the government could predict what mill rates would be at the municipal level, I do think that a budget is always somewhat of a guess as to where you are going to be throughout a year. I do not think it is entirely unreasonable for people to make an estimate as to what they are going to expand and to present that information to us. I do not know that there is much of an argument in this case to not present a figure that would be an expected figure where in other areas you have done exactly the same thing. It is not really a question so much, Mr. Chairman, as comments on this process. The Minister may care to respond.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Chairman, I want to thank the Member for his comments and we will take his comments very seriously to look at areas where we need to improve in terms of coming up with the figures. We try to forecast to the best of our ability how much we will need to spend in all areas. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Are

there any general comments? Mr. Koe and then Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Page 11-15.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few comments under this activity. There is a task under this activity called "home owners property tax rebate." This provides a $300 tax rebate to people who own and occupy their own dwellings. There is a $75 levy for general taxation. I am not sure what that is, but I assume it is the same as the $300. How is this rebate administered? Is there a policy in place with administration guidelines or is this legislation? How are administrative guidelines and procedures set out?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Minister. Mr. Menard.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Menard

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This program is administered under the Home Owners Property Tax Rebate Act. There is an act that administers it.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Menard. Mr. Koe.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Under that act then, are there procedures for administering? Who collects and how are the rebates issued? Are they spelled out?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Menard.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Menard

Yes, the act is quite clear as to how the process is done.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Menard. Mr. Koe.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Has the department looked recently at the process under this act in terms of ways and methods of streamlining it?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Menard.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Menard

Yes, we have in two different ways. We have been approached by the NWT Association of Municipalities who asked us to look at streamlining it to make it less confusing for the municipalities. We were also approached by the Inuvik town council to see if there was a better way to disburse the money, and we are still reviewing that with them. It seems every time we try one way there are some pitfalls and we are still trying to work those out where we will be reviewing it further.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Menard. Mr. Koe.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

I agree, it is very complicated and it seems as if there are many administrative procedures and people involved in trying to issue a rebate to a home owner. From my knowledge, an individual receives a tax bill from a municipality. That individual then pays taxes directly to the municipality, then there is a form which the individual has to fill out and submits it either to the municipality or the government. Your department then has to tabulate all the requests for rebate, and send a cheque back to the municipality. The municipality will then issue individual cheques back to the taxpayers. It seem very time consuming and many people are involved in tabulating, filing out forms, compiling and issuing cheques. The municipality, in the end, issues individual cheques back to the people who paid them in the first place.

The municipality should deduct the rebate at source when they issue the tax bill. They could then submit one bill to your department. You, in turn, could rebate the municipality. It seems quite simple to me but, obviously, there must be other complications which I am not aware of. That is only an idea. You can respond to it if you want, but I think it would be best if you just act. It would save many people a great deal of time and effort, especially the municipalities because every cheque which is issued by them is a cost to them.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Menard.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Menard

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Those are very good suggestions. We tried to do that but one of the problems we ran into was that it has to be verified whether the taxpayers are bona fide. The other problem is that municipalities wanted to be the ones to give out the rebates, even though they were territorial government rebates. We could give the rebates from here or the regional office, it would not matter, but we have to work out those administrative details. Sometimes people apply for the rebate, they may get paid for it and when you look into it they are not eligible for it for all kinds of different reasons. We are trying to streamline it. What you say makes a great deal of sense and we might go that way and take our chances with some of the pitfalls.