Do we have the concurrence of the committee to deal with those matters?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. The documents will be distributed to each Member. We will take a 15 minute break and then return to deal with the matter. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

Tabled Document 49-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy; Minister's Statement 34-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy; Tabled Document 66-12(3), Staff Housing Strategy Responses; Tabled Document 84-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy Financial Implications Summary

The committee will now come to order. We have a package before us. You have been provided with three discussion papers. The first one is Tabled Document 49-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy. The second document is Tabled Document 66-12(3), Staff Housing Strategy Responses. The third document is Tabled Document 84-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy Financial Impact Summary. We are also provided with Minister Kakfwi's statement, Minister's Statement 34-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy. Minister Kakfwi, would you like to proceed with your statement?

Introductory Remarks

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Do we have the concurrence of the House for the Minister to bring in the witnesses from his department? Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Proceed, Mr. Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses.

Thank you. For the record, Mr. Minister, would you introduce the witness, please.

Thank you. The floor is now open to general comments from the committee. Mr. Koe.

General Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will start by stating that since the Minister's announcement of the staff housing strategy, there has been much correspondence and all kinds of reaction from people who are affected and people who are not affected but impacted. The impact is territorial-wide, not only on the people who live in staff housing, but the businesses and people who live beside people in staff housing and the people in public housing. The whole intent of the housing strategy is going to impact nearly all our residents. From what I understand and see in the documentation which has been provided, the only people who really are not impacted by this territorial housing strategy are people who are federal employees. We talk about equality and trying to establish equality in the north, yet we have an entire government that is not impacted by what we are doing.

Have any discussions been held with the federal government as to how they intend to deal, or are they going to deal with their employees who in many communities -- we have a territorial house and a federal house, they live side by side in the same size houses, yet even today the rental structures and benefits the feds provide to their employees are quite different from ours. I would like to start off by asking the Minister that question.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Koe.

The concerns which will be raised this afternoon are territorial-wide, in fact, residents in all our communities and all the territorial employees in the smaller communities. We know the strategy has already been in place in Fort Smith, Hay River, Yellowknife and some impact has been felt in Inuvik because many of the residents there pay close to economic rent. There is an impact on many of the communities and the rest of the communities are the ones I have not mentioned

.

I am on public record as personally supporting the intent and direction the government is trying to take in the development of the staff housing strategy. I am also on record stating my opposition to the way the strategy is being implemented. There are many concerns regarding the inequities in the different communities and regions, and also within a community itself. There are many types of housing available. The state of the housing is quite different. You can have two four bedroom detached units but one could be quite aged and energy inefficient and the newer model could be quite different. So, you have many types of units which are available. The concerns in many cases are with the state of the unit once the customer has to pay for energy, the higher levels that one pays from one unit to the next. We know there are energy subsidies in some communities for power. However, the further north you go it is darker for longer periods of time and more power is required. There is some concern that people in the more northerly communities end up paying quite a bit more than people who have more hours of daylight. These are issues.

There is the issue of the impact of bringing in rents. The proposal is now at a 25 per cent rent increase plus user-pay for their power and utilities, and eventually user-pay for fuel. The levels of impact are going to vary by employee and by community. In many cases there is quite a variance in how much an employee pays. I know there is a proposed ceiling of 30 per cent on household income. Mr. Chairman, what I am raising are issues which residents have raised and tenants have raised. We have a great deal of correspondence from the Minister and his staff in trying to address this. However, there has been a problem in getting this information from the department or from government departments to tenants.

I have raised several questions, during session, regarding ways to encourage the departmental officials to talk to tenants. Some time ago, the Minister made the commitment to have staff go into each household and talk to tenants if they were willing to talk. From my understanding, the visits to my riding and the correspondence I have received from across the territories, all tenants want to talk and get a better understanding of this strategy.

I would like to stop now, Mr. Chairman, and give the Minister a chance to respond to some of the comments I have made.

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Koe.

Thank you. One of my concerns, and I have raised it in several ways in this Assembly, is the cost and impact, not only on the tenants but on this government. The budget which was proposed by the Minister of Finance has many implications that this strategy has on it. In February I asked a written question on the costs and savings to be realized from this strategy. The Minister of Finance passed a document to us which was subsequently tabled on March 8, the long-term staff housing strategy financial impact summary. I assume that document is in response to the written question I raised.

There seems to be one aspect missing and that is the aspect of person years. We know there is going to be impact on many government departments, Personnel, NWT Housing Corporation, NWT Power Corporation and MACA, in terms of the utilities and municipal provisions. How many person years are going to be reduced, saved or redirected from government departments because once this staff housing strategy is implemented, I assume there is some impact on maintenance staff and Personnel staff, because they will not have to keep housing records, check-ins and check-outs. There has to be some impact, not only financially, but in terms of the person years and personnel this government employs. I would like some response to that issue.

Qujannamiik. Mr. Kakfwi.

Mr. Lovely. Pardon me, Mr. Pollard, the Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That aspect was considered because it appears to me if we are going to be able to down-size our budgets even further and as we get less involved in housing we should see some reduction in PYs. It was not something which could be calculated. It is not something which will really come into play that much in the first two years. There is a great deal of work. In fact, we are probably going to be spending more to access these houses, perform energy audits and visit with the residents of the houses in the first 18 months than we would normally be spending. There is also the question of upgrading in some of the units. I do not see us having a reduction in the first 18 months, Mr. Chairman. However, certainly down the road it is something which would look as if we are going to be able to save some PYs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.