What's the wish of the committee? What would you like to do? Mr. Dent.

Does the committee agree we should deal with Bill 4?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At the conclusion of my statement, if it's the wish of the House, I have the deputy minister available for participation in committee of the whole.

I am pleased to present, today, the matter of dealing with Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act. One of the substantive amendments to this bill has come about as the result of concerns raised by communities in the Northwest Territories. These concerns centre on the issue of local control of liquor through plebiscites.

A number of communities have approached the department to express their concern about the range of options presently available under the Liquor Act for the control of liquor after a licensed establishment has been operating for a number of years. In many cases, the concerns raised by communities are an indication of the growing maturity of the communities, especially their growing determination to gain control of liquor problems. These communities have told us that they want to have the ability to gain greater control of the sale and consumption of liquor.

The amendments we are putting forward will enable a community with a licensed premise to hold a plebiscite to create an alcohol education committee in communities where licensed premises already exist. The committee cannot use this form of plebiscite to shut down a licensed establishment and, indeed, that may not be of primary concern because licensed premises have strict rules about the serving of liquor and the licence holder must abide by these rules or risk losing their licence entirely.

The amendment will certainly enable the community to gain greater control over who may consume liquor and how much they may consume privately -- that is outside a licensed premises.

A second substantive amendment came about as a result of concern within the department about ministerial prohibition orders. When communities decide to hold special events such as arts festivals, regional local sporting events, or special cultural or religious activities, they often seek a special order of the Minister prohibiting the sale or consumption of alcohol. Until now, the ability to enforce such prohibitions did not exist.

With the amendments we are putting forward today, ministerial orders prohibiting the sale and consumption of alcohol in designated geographical areas for set periods of time will be enforceable.

The other amendments contained in Bill 4 can be characterized as administrative in nature. I would highlight one amendment in this category: section 8, which amends section 85 of the act, which deals with supplying alcohol to persons under 19 years of age. This amendment came about as a result of an unsuccessful prosecution concerning the sale of liquor to a person under the age of 19 years. The judge in the case relied on the current wording of the section which essentially prevented the conviction of the accused. The amendments we are putting forward will close that loophole.

Although the changes we are proposing to the Liquor Act are relatively minor, they will help us administer the act more fairly until we are able to bring about a whole new statute, hopefully within this next year. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I am ready to answer the questions of the committee.

First of all, I believe we have a report from the chairman of the standing committee that reviewed the bill. After that, maybe you can bring your witnesses in. Mr. Gargan.

Standing Committee On Legislation Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The standing committee has reviewed Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act. The committee begun its deliberations on May 16, 1994 and travelled to Fort Smith. Some of the Members went to Iqaluit and Yellowknife for public hearings.

The committee is satisfied that amendments to the Liquor Act will enable greater community participation and control in liquor restrictions. The committee feels that the bill broadens the act to protect current licence holders, but will grant the people in the communities more flexibility to deal with alcohol, so long as it does not impact on the licence holder.

The committee supports the bill because it enhances the ability to enforce ministerial orders prohibiting the sale and consumption of liquor during special events in the community. Further, the committee is in unanimous support of the change making the serving of a minor a strict liability offence.

However, the committee did have questions regarding enforcement components of the Liquor Act and was disappointed that this bill did not address this issue. The committee was informed by the Minister that a new statute was being developed that would address the enforcement issue. Its completion is anticipated within the next two years. The committee supports the amendments proposed in this bill and, on May 31, 1994, passed a motion that this bill is ready for consideration in committee of the whole.

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. The Minister has asked if he could bring in witnesses. Do you agree?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Mr. Nerysoo, maybe you could introduce your witnesses for us, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my right is Mr. John Quirke, who is the deputy minister. On my left is Shawn Flynn, who is the legislative counsel.

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Are there general comments from Members on this bill? Mr. Patterson.

General Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have no problem proceeding with the bill today, but I think it is important to note that the review that is under way now -- and a meeting was just held in my constituency -- may well lead to changes that will supersede even these amendments. For example, there is a body of opinion in my constituency that the drinking age should be raised from 19 to 21. There is a strong feeling that there should be greater community control, even to the point of granting communities the authority to approve and police licences.

I realize, Mr. Chairman, that the timetable for preparing major amendments and an overhaul of the Liquor Act is that work would be done in time to present recommendations to the next Legislative Assembly. I am not saying we should prevent these amendments from going ahead because that review is under way. I think it should be noted on the record now, that this whole act may be radically revised as a result of the review process and public hearings which are now under way and will be held following the legislative action paper, which I think the Minister is committed to tabling by the next session.

So we should approve these amendments with that in mind; that, in fact, 19 may become 21 and there may be a whole new licensing regime. Having said that, I am pleased to approve these amendments. If I have described the consultation process wrong, I am sure the Minister will straighten that out, but it is as I understand it. Thank you.

General comments. Are you ready to go clause by clause? Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to get some clarification on this amendment to the Liquor Act. In the summary there was reference to the holding of a plebiscite. I would like to ask the Minister, what is the current law with regard to holding a plebiscite, and what is the intention of this amendment? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask Mr. Quirke to respond to the issue of the present process.

Mr. Quirke.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The present process is defined, in part, in section 48 of the Liquor Act. Presently, 20 qualified voters in a settlement can petition the Minister to hold a plebiscite to become aware whether the consumption and purchase, sale or transport of alcohol should be restricted or prohibited.

The act also goes on to say that if a licensed premises exists in a settlement, there cannot be a plebiscite. This amendment allows that a plebiscite can be held in those communities where a licensed premises now exists. The only stipulation is that a plebiscite cannot change the operation of the licensed premises that exists there now. Thank you.

Mr. Antoine.

The petition that will trigger a plebiscite...Now it requires a number of signatures to be on the plebiscite. I would like to ask the Minister how many signatures are required for a plebiscite to be held?

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you. The present requirement is 20 signatures; those who are eligible to vote.