Thank you. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to clarify this. When was this fire protection study in 1993?

Thank you. The honourable Minister.

It just says "Fire Protection Study 1993" and it was completed in June 1994.

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

I would like to be more specific. As far as the fire alerting systems, what plans does she have, or her department have, to upgrade these systems in communities where they are deemed to be inadequate through this protection study? Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Mr. Chairman, can I bring in my witnesses? I will need their assistance on this.

Thank you. Do we have the concurrence of the committee for the honourable Minister to bring in her witnesses?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the chamber.

Thank you. Madam Minister, for the record, would you please introduce your witnesses?

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left is Dave Ramsden, deputy minister, and on my right is assistant deputy minister, Mr. Vern Christensen.

Thank you. Prior to the witnesses joining us at the witness table, there was a question from Mr. Ng. Madam Minister, are you prepared to answer that question?

Mr. Chairman, I will let Mr. Ramsden respond to the question asked by Mr. Ng.

Mr. Ramsden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The capital plan doesn't address a particular project for a community. Typically, if an entire fire alerting system for a community had to be replaced, we would show it as a separate project. Where the department has been working on a trial basis and has concluded its review of the options, it comes down to the use of pagers as being a more effective way to alert members of a volunteer fire force to a fire. Given the lower cost, we are carrying an operating budget item that allows us to purchase this equipment through our support to fire departments.

There are a few communities with community pull-boxes, which are not being supportive on an ongoing basis now. We are going to have to look in the current capital planning cycle at putting projects in place for replacement of those systems. The pagers are, by far, particularly for growing communities, turning out to be a more flexible option of getting the alarm out to members of the fire department. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I recognize that pagers may be good for firefighters who have to respond to the fire, but my particular concern with the fire alerting system is members of the public, who have to give the notice out to the fire department before they can activate the pager. How does the department plan on addressing that issue in communities where there are no pull-box systems? I recognize that the pull-box systems are becoming obsolete and very expensive to maintain and repair. The department has been funding municipalities with these pagers, but this is where the concern comes forward with the actual first notice of the fire department.

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will have Mr. Christensen respond to that one.

Mr. Christensen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department is working closely with all the community fire departments where the pull-boxes are not working; there is the ability to phone in the fire alarm. If the phones are not accessible, then we would have to rely on a pull-box mechanism in those instances. Through our capital planning process, we try to meet those kinds of deficiencies. If it is a significant capital item, then it gets reflected in our capital plan. We do have a budget for fire equipment in each of the regional offices for minor fire protection equipment. If there are particular cases that are problematic and of immediate concern, we do have the ability to attempt to address those.

Qujannamiik. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the phone-in system, I recognize that it works in some communities where you have a large majority of the people in houses with phones, but there are many communities that don't have phones in every household. For any individual who would have to notify the fire department, they would have to get to a phone first. Sometimes that isn't practical in the middle of winter or in the middle of the night when people are sleeping and things are secure for the evening.

That is why I have some concerns with the phone-in and pager systems that MACA has been recommending to municipalities to use at this time. The Minister has indicated that there was a fire protection study undertaken in 1993; how extensive was that study? Would it have assessed whether or not the fire alerting systems in our municipalities were adequate? Firstly, that would be to address some of the issues I have raised previously. Secondly, to address the growth in some of our communities where new subdivisions have come forward that may not have full access to fire alerting systems.