Thank you. General comments. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a brief comment and concern. This is not the first time. This is not the first time that it has been brought up. It is with respect to hamlets being in a deficit positions and how they try to pay off the deficits. In the past, some hamlets got into a deficit situation not realizing it. There are two communities that were trying to pay off their deficits. I am sure the deficits are not as much as they were in the beginning.

On October 19th, I was given letters from Arctic Bay with respect to audits that were done in Iqaluit. Recently, in March 1994, the deficits that were audited had mistakes in them. When the audit was done, they realized there was a mistake in the audit. Following the audit, the community realized that the year before, the deficit was higher. When they received correspondence from Iqaluit, they were told there was no deficit the year before.

The hamlets are going through a hard time trying to pay off their deficits. To top it off, they got a letter from headquarters or the regional office saying that they owe more money. I am sure this happens in other communities, not only in Arctic Bay. I would like to have this matter checked into. Perhaps they could check and see which audit was correct. I would like to have some clarification on this matter. If there was a mistake, that would be very unfortunate when the hamlets are going through hard times trying to pay off deficits. If this isn't correct, it is unfortunate for the community. If there is no deficit, that's good. But if there is a mistake, the matter should be dealt with. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Qujannamiik. Madam Minister.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps if we could get copies of the correspondence that he has, we would really appreciate that. The person in Iqaluit who does the auditing reviews the statements. It is a person who just reviews the statements. So, for the person who does the audit, he isn't a person who works for MACA. So if we could receive the correspondence, we would appreciate it. If my deputy minister would like to add to my response, he is able to. Thank you.

Mr. Deputy Minister, we are dealing with the capital estimates. There are some implications of O and M, but I will allow a response from Mr. Ramsden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The regional superintendent in Iqaluit advised me that there had been some discrepancies. The audit that is performed for the hamlet is done by a private auditing firm. They are reviewed by our staff in the region, but typically our staff don't have the formal accounting designations that the auditors have to actually conduct the audit.

The matter has been brought to my attention and we have had discussions between our director of finance and the auditors trying to resolve the matter, so that first and foremost we can put the correct answer in front of the hamlet council. At least at that point, we will know which answer is correct.

From that point, we may go back and try to determine why the error is made, but the first priority is to find out which answer is correct. Part of the problem is that the financial statements of the hamlets are becoming more and more complex. Part of the work that we have tasked a new position in our department with is to try to simplify the statements. There is a position in our finance department set up as part of the reorganization, responsible only for municipal evaluations on the financial side. I am hoping that we can create a much more straightforward process for the next round of year-end audits that take place. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Dent.

Qujannamiik. Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The last time I made Members aware was during the SCOF review of the budget. He is correct; I did meet with the mayor, Pat McMahon, to discuss this and come to some solution as to how the city would want to receive the funding if we could identify it within our existing dollars. The talks have been ongoing, and I have yet to meet with the chairman of FMB to try and identify where the resources would come from. I have not come forward with the submission to FMB. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Dent.

Qujannamiik. Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since there has been a municipal election, I have plans to meet with the mayor shortly after he gets sworn into office. This will be done along with my staff and, hopefully, the staff who we met with the last time.

Regarding the question of the timetable, my understanding is that the dollars required are not needed this year nor next year. I have to meet with Mr. Pollard, first, and see if the dollars can be identified down the road. If I am correct in making a timetable, then it leaves me no room to do a well-thought-out plan that I would like to have along with the city of Yellowknife. So, at this point in time, I would be reluctant to respond to Mr. Dent's request. Thank you.

Qujannamiik. General comments. Mr. Dent.

Qujannamiik.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If that is the wish of the city, yes, I'll do that.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, MACA is a very important department in the government, and a lot of MLAs have a history with MACA. I just did a little, quick calculation here: I was a mayor, John Pollard was a mayor, Titus Allooloo was a mayor, Kelvin Ng was a mayor, Jim Antoine was a chief, Charles Dent was an alderman, James Arvaluk was an alderman, Silas Arngna'naaq was an alderman, Kenoayoak Pudlat was an alderman, John Ningark was a long-time administrator and Henry Zoe was an administrator. Between all of us, we've had a long and very productive relationship with MACA. I know my own relationship goes back to 1978 when I was first elected to city council. So the reorganization of MACA is something that all of us are quite interested in.

I just wanted to make some comments on the reorganization. MACA, as a department, has worked very well over the years. I would now like to publicly give credit to Al Menard who was a very good deputy minister of MACA, very responsive to community needs. And, his staff, Dennis Adams and Vern, who we've had years of dealings with. The staff of MACA have done a very difficult job very well because, as the Minister knows, the set-up of municipalities in the Northwest Territories is not quite as easy as it is in southern Canada. You have to deal with band councils, municipal councils, Metis locals and there is a mix and match all over the territories. Although there probably is some valid criticism that MACA might not have had the best management system, the reality is they were able to deal very well with communities, and everybody in the Northwest Territories really appreciated that relationship. It was a very, very positive relationship.

I, for one, am willing to give the Minister and the deputy minister a chance with the reorganization. But the real litmus test is that whatever they do with the reorganization, the bottom line is will that type of interaction with the communities be continued. I guess we'll wait, and I think everybody is prepared to be fair about this. But the proof will be in the pudding if those relationships can be maintained.

MACA also was able, over the years, to do something which is difficult in politics. They were able to deal with the concerns of Yellowknife, of the large regional centres and the small communities, in a way that it didn't become one against the other. Each issue was dealt with in a fair and equitable way. Something that we've avoided over the years is conflict between communities. MACA has done a very, very good job of that over the years.

I know for myself, there are four outstanding issues that I'm going to be looking at to judge exactly how MACA is doing. One issue is the whole issue of Ndilo, and I've had some productive talks with the Minister of Finance and I'll be talking to the Minister of MACA about it because it's quite an unusual situation, somewhat similar to the Hay River Reserve. It doesn't really fit in to the system. It's federal responsibility and it's a municipality, but over the years we've been able to ensure that the people of Ndilo were treated fairly. So I'm looking for the continuation of that approach.

My colleague and the chairman of the Finance committee has mentioned the issue of the central business district. We're looking to see how that is resolved.

The issue of the Legislative Assembly site was quite controversial. And I'm pleased so far with the way the department is handling it. It is low-key. I understand the deputy minister and Mr. Lagore have been talking and I look forward to a successful conclusion of those issues.

I shall be waiting for the response on the issue I have brought up today with the Minister about the goings on in Yellowknife with people who have avoided paying taxes. I know there is a solution to that. So, hopefully, the Minister, in her response, will let us know what the government perspective on that is. It is a big chunk of change. We are talking about $4 million. If the city was able to collect that $4 million, it would give much-needed tax relief to an already very overburdened taxpayer in the city of Yellowknife.

Thank you. General comments. Line by line? Do you agree? Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Chairman, the Minister came out with this budget presentation for $39.744 million. I would like to ask the Minister if she has seen a trend with regard to the reduction in the capital allocation and an increase in the O and M? Or, has it been stable?

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am informed that over the years, the capital has been slowly declining.