Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Keewatin Central, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, it is common knowledge that residents in the smaller communities in the Northwest Territories face a difficult situation when attempting to arrange financing from financial institutions for commercial or residential mortgages.

The housing shortage precipitated by drastic federal cutbacks in funding for social housing which my colleague, the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, has been working diligently to get reversed is made worse by the lack of mortgage financing available for people in small communities who can afford to build or buy their own homes.

I am pleased to inform the House that the Department of Economic Development and Tourism is developing a proposal to establish a mortgage investment corporation to help ease the shortage of commercial and residential...

---Applause

...mortgage financing in small communities.

A number of Members of this House have been briefed on this concept last fall and their positive response to the initial proposal was encouraging.

Madam Speaker, a mortgage investment corporation could provide home and commercial financing for residents in smaller communities in the Northwest Territories using equity capital from various sources.

For example, with initial investments totalling $40 million the corporation, using this equity as leverage, could attract up to $250 million additional investment dollars, five times the original investment.

Emphasis would be placed on small investors from a cross-section of the Northwest Territories population, but a mortgage investment corporation would be able to attract investments from other areas in Canada and attract possible future investment from southern Canada.

A mortgage investment corporation can raise funds at attractive rates from the public, and the investors can be protected through Canadian deposit insurance. Mortgages issued can be eligible for insurance by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation provided they meet the requirements.

Madam Speaker, a corporation of this nature could play a significant role in helping alleviate the housing shortage in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I would like to raise a concern of my constituents regarding the home ownership program, now called the access program. This is a program that enables people to own their own homes, and is an opportunity that my constituents greatly appreciate.

There is a problem with this program and it has to do with the amount of time that the people have to complete their homes. They have two years to build their units, unfortunately it's not always possible to finish them in this time due to several factors. These factors include the northern climate. Early onset of winter and severe cold make it almost impossible to properly construct foundations and other structural components of their houses. As well, darkness limits the amount of time one has to work outside, and safety becomes a concern. The people in my constituency who are part of this program also have jobs to go to during the day which means that they have only evenings and weekends to work on their homes.

A concern that has been expressed to me has to do with the Housing Corporation's practice of going to communities to harass those people who are behind in the construction of their houses. They threaten people with taking their homes away and giving them to someone else. This causes much worry and undue stress on these people who are trying their best to complete their homes in the specified amount of time.

Madam Speaker, the Housing Corporation needs to be more sensitive in its dealings with people involved in the home ownership program, and recognize the difficulties inherent to the High Arctic with respect to building homes. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am very proud of the young people from my constituency who will be participating in the Arctic Winter Games.

In dealing with Sport North, I am concerned about their lack of sensitivity with the realities in Nunavut. We had problems getting an escort for a young athlete from Sanikiluaq who is the first ever participant from that community. I would like to encourage the government to pressure Sport North to be more understanding on how to deal with people and athletes from Nunavut, and their needs. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Last week I attended, as an observer, a meeting of the municipal advisory committee of the town of Iqaluit. I was very impressed with the businesslike manner with which a number of critical issues were dealt with on which decisive recommendations were made to Mr. Beaumont, the municipal administrator.

The first issue dealt with was the finances of the town. The committee reported to the public that, with the forgiveness of interest by the GNWT, the town can cover the costs of the land debenture. In fact, if the committee is able to proceed with its plans to make additional land available for construction this summer, given the high demand for land in Iqaluit, then even more revenues could be obtained to accelerate repayment of the debenture loan.

As far as the town's general financial situation is concerned, committee members reported their opinion, after studying the matter, that the town's financial situation was secure.

Other issues discussed on which recommendations were made to Mr. Beaumont were evaluation of management staff; reinstating a contract to develop a town general plan, which was inexplicably cancelled when the council was dissolved; the need to hire a lands officer with continued financial assistance to be sought from the Minister of MACA; the need to get a report from the GNWT lands division on available commercial and residential lots which would then lead to a ballot draw by March 31; recommended process to hire a new senior administrative officer; the appropriate composition of the town's collective bargaining committee; the satisfactory status of the coming year's social services funding agreement; and, the most effective uses for the funds allocated for capital improvements for recreational facilities for Iqaluit in the coming fiscal year.

The most important discussion concerned the need for an early election. Members of the advisory committee are doing their best but realize they are only an appointed body. They are as anxious as anyone to see an elected council in place. Important decisions are being made this year concerning the implementation of land claims and the planning for the new Nunavut government which will affect the community for many years to come. The Queen of England is making a return visit to Iqaluit this summer. The advisory committee would like to see an election held before the end of the school year. They have my full support in this request.

Later on, Madam Speaker, I will be beseeching the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs to restore democracy in Iqaluit as soon as possible.

---Applause

Thank you. Qujannamiik.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I rise today to thank the Deh Cho Tribal Council for the very informative presentation they gave to Members of the House on February 17, 1994. I think this presentation gave some Members, both from the east and west, a better understanding of some of the positions taken by Dene leaders in the Treaty 11 area. It is important, Madam Speaker, for everyone to remember that this was a peace treaty. There was no war. It was purely and simply a peace treaty.

We ask that people do not give up any of their rights to the land or their way of life. Madam Speaker, the major problem with this and other treaties that were negotiated between Canada and the aboriginal nations was the difference between what was promised verbally to the chiefs and what actually came to be put on paper. Madam Speaker, for years Pat Buggins of my constituency has been telling me that the documents that exist refutes the context of Treaty 11. The former catholic bishop of the Mackenzie, Bishop Gabriel Breynet, wrote down the entire statement in 1937. The actual wording of Treaty 11 differs greatly from what Bishop Breynet translated and others took to be promised by the government in 1921.

These verbal agreements and promises were, and as far as we are concerned, part of the parcel of the written provision of Treaty 11. It must be interpreted as such. Madam Speaker, maybe this is why aboriginal people are getting much better with the paperwork. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today, Madam Speaker, I want to talk about taxation, specifically about the home owners' property tax rebate. In the early 1980s, the former Minister of MACA, James Wah-Shee, brought in the home owners' property tax rebate. It was the first time the Government of the Northwest Territories very vocally and very strongly supported home ownership. That was the beginning of a long-standing commitment of this government towards home ownership. In those days, municipal taxation in Yellowknife was somewhere between $1,000 and $2,000 for average taxation and so $400 was a very considerable percentage of that.

Well, that amount has eroded over the years and the taxation level has doubled. The actual impact of that $400 has halved over that period of time. I found it actually quite incredible last year that the government spent probably one third of their time in oral questions responding to questions about staff housing and supporting the concept of home ownership, yet last year they cut the rebate from $400 to $300.

Shame.

I find it extremely inconsistent. They also cut the general taxation area from $100 to $75.

Shame.

I hope that the new Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs will demonstrate his strength, his independence and his commitment to home owners in the Northwest Territories...

---Applause

...and will bring forward in the next session a supp that will re-establish the home owner grants to the previous level. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Minister of Health, Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good afternoon. Madam Speaker, the status is there is a legislative proposal being drafted by the Department of Health at the

present time. That will come to Cabinet. I don't believe there is going to be a problem in getting it through Cabinet. Then we will draft the legislation and it will be brought to this House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Social Services. As she knows, the elders in Gjoa Haven have been asking for a facility for an elders' centre. The elders have been supporting us. Without their help we would have never survived. We don't like to see them travelling to another community or city to be in an elders' centre. We would like to see them remain in the community.

Taloyoak is asking for an elders' centre also. If a facility is built, I wonder in which community it will be built, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Social Services, Ms. Mike.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. As we have indicated before, we are undergoing a series of planning for the department, one of which is capital planning for all facilities such as group homes and elders' facilities. The plan should be in place by September 1994. The criteria for facilities such as these should allow the communities who request these facilities to determine whether they are eligible. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Could the Minister tell the House how much lead time would be required in order to hold a municipal election in the town of Iqaluit? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe the amount of time required for a municipal election to be called would be upon the appointment of a returning officer, which is two months before the election. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

I take it, Madam Speaker, that even allowing up to one week to do the municipal evaluation that the Minister has indicated might be required before an election could be held, if a decision were made by the Minister some time this month, an election could be held in Iqaluit by May or June. Then there would be enough time for the legal requirements to be met. Is that correct, Madam Speaker? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. From the indications I have received, yes. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I had indicated to the Member last week that my staff would be in touch with the two parties involved and would arrange for meetings with them. I have not been informed as to when these meetings would take place. I know they will be taking place. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the department had indicated to me yesterday that they have been in contact with the city and will be in contact with the Inukshuk Housing Cooperative. They should have their meeting together in a short while. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, again to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Madam Speaker, the Minister may know that I was assured by his predecessor that an audit statement of the financial affairs of the town of Iqaluit for 1993 would be undertaken as a priority following the dissolution of the town council. Could the Minister advise me what progress has been made toward obtaining audited financial statements for 1993 for the town of Iqaluit? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I understand that the commitment which was made by the previous Minister was that the financial audit would be completed, and I sympathize with the Member and the people in Iqaluit in the need for an elected body to be in place at the earliest possible time. The indications that I have received are that an audit would require approximately 120 days, and at this point, for the financial status of Iqaluit to the calendar year ending December 31, 1993, we are hopeful that those should be completed by the first part of April.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my question is directed to the honourable Minister of Transportation. Madam Speaker, First Air is the only air carrier that goes to my area -- Pelly Bay, Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak. People in that area are saying that a lot of the freight is being left behind in Cambridge Bay, for some reason I don't know. I am not able to speculate what reason they have for not being able to bring all the freight into my area. Even a medical patient who goes to Yellowknife for treatment is not, at times, able to get on the flight because of some other reason. I would like to know, Madam Speaker, if the honourable Minister of Transportation is aware of other airlines planning to have a regular sched into that area -- Pelly Bay, Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak -- some time soon. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a never-ending problem right across the territories, the need for adequate transportation, particularly by air, and the airline companies, of course, require a certain volume to be able to increase the level of service they can provide. I am not aware, at this time, that there are any other applications or any other companies interested in actively seeking the routing in the honourable Member's riding, but I will look into it and get back to him. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. Over the past several years, there has been a lot of discussion and work on community transfer initiatives. Just recently, the community transfer working group from Inuvik was here in Yellowknife meeting with several officials. Can the Minister advise me of the progress made in his discussions on community transfers in Inuvik? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister responsible for Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I am glad to hear that significant progress is being made but they are still, I guess, waiting for the moment to sign the formal documents.

The concern that has been raised to me is that the Minister is very enthused, and I assume his other Cabinet colleagues are as enthused as him, on the whole community transfer initiative process. But, the concern is, when we deal with officers in the departments, they don't seem to be as enthused as the honourable Ministers. What is the Minister doing to ensure that that enthusiasm he has in making this thing work is transferred down to the staff and the officers who deal at the program level within the various departments?

Thank you. Minister responsible for Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs, Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Minister of Social Services, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am prepared to agree to provide the additional funding requested by the association to cover the costs for the office lease. Thank you.

---Applause

Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is a question for the Minister responsible for the NWT Development Corporation. Madam Speaker, we have some lovely, glossy brochures on our desk today commemorating an event that was held to showcase the beautiful northern clothing which has been produced for the Arctic Winter Games. We're all very proud of that. However, I must say I was a little disappointed to note that none of the people from the communities of Baker Lake, Rankin Inlet and Pangnirtung were featured in any of this rather impressive looking advertising or in the fashion show. My question to the Minister is could he explain to me why some of the residents from Baker Lake, Rankin Inlet and Pangnirtung who also participated in the production of this clothing were not featured in the brochures or in the fashion show? Thank you.

Minister of Economic Development, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think it is also important to point out that some of the communities in the west weren't represented either, Rae and places like that. I don't know the reason for it, quite frankly, Madam Speaker. I'm equally as disappointed as the honourable Member is but I'm certainly prepared to look into it. I think the presentation perhaps should have been more reflective of all the interests in the Northwest Territories. I'll look into it. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. My question has to do with the home owners' tax rebate. My first question to the Minister is, does the Minister and his department continue to consider the encouragement of home ownership as a primary goal of his department and of government?

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is something that the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is trying to do, to encourage home ownership in the communities, yes.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, long-needed initiatives have been undertaken by this government, such as the sale of staff housing and the rental rate review. Would the Minister agree that his department must support his Cabinet colleagues in achieving their goals by strongly encouraging home ownership in the Northwest Territories?

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think that I should also point out before I respond to the question that there were two parts to the goals that were set by the department, the first of which the honourable Member has mentioned, which is to encourage home ownership. The second goal was to encourage home owners to pay for their taxes on time so that the tax-based municipalities would not run into cash flow problems. To the question, I would like to answer by saying that I do support the home ownership rebate program. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister is, I'm sure, aware that the sum of money involved here is probably only about $350,000 which is a relatively small sum of money when you look at the impact that this sort of program has had on home ownership in the Northwest Territories. My question to the Minister is, can we expect the Minister to come forward with a supp in the fall session that restores the home ownership rebate to its previous level?

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wasn't a Member of the Cabinet at the time that the reduction was made by the government, but it was a reduction made in an effort to cut down costs of this government. I think it is regrettable that we had to come to that, to cut down in an area that people of the Northwest Territories have to bear. But, I think that, due to the restraint that we are experiencing today, it would be difficult to try to justify such an appropriation. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

If the Minister of Finance does his job, all Ministers are discouraged from coming forward with expenditures of funds. I think it is the responsibility of individual Members to priorize in their departments and make a strong case. So, rather than have the Minister presuppose the decision of the FMB and the Finance Minister, I will ask again, will the Minister take forward to the Financial Management Board a proposal to restore the rates to their previous level? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hear, hear.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to say that I sympathize with the Member pushing so strongly for such an appropriation to be made, but I would not support such a case. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is also about housing, but not about home ownership. My question to the Minister of Economic Development, is this. We have a number of people in the mining industry who are now appearing in larger numbers than ever in this city. There is, apparently, an accommodation shortage, surprisingly enough. I would like to ask the Minister, have the representatives of the

mining industry been in touch with him with regard to maybe using government-owned accommodation in order to accommodate people who are involved in mining exploration in this area?

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. That is a good question. There have been some discussions going on with respect to finding ways and means to encourage the mining industry and, in particular, this large diamond find out there, to relocate into the Northwest Territories and utilize our services, so it would not be a fly-in and fly-out type of operation.

One of the areas of concern with the mining industry is what they perceive as the high cost of housing. I have had some discussion, along with other Ministers, with the industry in respect to the potential and possible utilization of some government surplus apartments and housing, yes.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

I realize he doesn't have responsibility for housing, but this is a major economic activity. Has the Minister been able to determine the number of units that could be made available in order to support this industry?

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We are currently working on that at the present time. There is an overall assessment being done anyway with respect to the selling off of government housing, whether it is here or in the east. I want to make it clear that I am sympathetic and supportive of this initiative. I hope that we will be able to identify some surplus housing and I hope we will be able to make a deal with the mining industry, given everything being equal. It will bring significant economic benefits not just to Yellowknife, but across the territories, in corporate spending, income tax, consumer purchasing, et cetera. The housing is one package of encouragement we are putting on the table, but there are a variety of others, as well. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am very pleased to hear the Minister is sympathetic and that there has been some contact. Since this would have to be a Cabinet decision and he would have to have support from his Cabinet colleagues, has this issue been raised at the Cabinet level so other Members can react to it?

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

No, there have only been preliminary discussions with some of the mining industry. I haven't prepared a paper to present to Cabinet and seek their counsel. I was merely stating my position as the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources and Economic Development and Tourism.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Since this is something which he would have to have other Members of Cabinet onside, would he be prepared to undertake this initiative to present to his Cabinet colleagues a proposal to make government accommodations in this city available for this major initiative in the mining industry?

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I think it is important to stress that housing is only one part of the package if we are going to make the assumption that some of this industry is going to move forward, particularly the diamond initiative. While we are looking at the potential of providing an incentive through housing, there is also the taxation question and a variety of other issues that have to be addressed. I am moving forward in trying to determine with the industry what kind of incentives they would require to relocate their offices and to move the people in and out from a community like Yellowknife, similar to what Colomac is currently doing out of Hay River. It is my belief that we will be able to demonstrate to the House and my colleagues that there are significant fiscal benefits to the Northwest Territories if we can encourage and provide the right incentives for industry to relocate into the north. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Right now we are doing an assessment of all assets owned by the GNWT in Yellowknife. We haven't done an assessment of the cost through the realtors yet because it is far too expensive. Once we decide on what buildings could be sold, then we would have an assessment done and offer them for sale. But, at the present time, as far as I know, the Laing Building is not for sale.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have been directed by Cabinet to make a list of all assets in Yellowknife that the Government of the NWT owns. Once Cabinet has an opportunity to take time to look at that list, they will make a decision on what assets could be sold, we will have an appraisal done on those assets, then they will be offered up for sale. At the present time, as the Minister of Public Works and Services, I do not know that the Laing Building is up for sale to anyone. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In case the Member is not aware, the government is going through financial difficulty and we have to look at our assets to find out how much they are worth. So if we did sell anything, we would know how much we would get. Thank you.

(Microphone turned off)

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of MACA. The Minister has stated his opinion unequivocally that prior to reviewing all of the possibilities in the departmental budget, he will not put forward support to reinstate the rebate to its previous levels. Because the Minister opened up this line of questioning, I have a question for the Minister. We are talking about $350,000. Could the Minister please tell me how he is convinced, without reviewing his budget, that there is no place in a $100 million budget with 155 PYs that he can find something less important than a program that puts money into every community in the Northwest Territories?