Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement will be fairly lengthy. Mr. Speaker, I wish to talk about the increase in rents. My constituents have an ongoing concern regarding the new rent scale. It has been discussed by many and people are interested in finding out exactly what the reasons are for implementing the increases. Many people are interested in finding out this information prior to April 1st.

Housing is a necessity in our communities. Perhaps the new rent scale might not be as great an issue to those who are outside of the communities, but people who live in the north and who are experiencing these increases need to express their concerns. Mr. Speaker, people have to be employed in these households but the fact is, very few people are actually employed. This will cause great stress for people who are the only income providers. The people who are employed will have to carry a bigger burden.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to finish my statement.

The honourable Member for Baffin South is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker and honourable Members. Because of the things that are happening, people both unemployed and employed, are bound to face more hardship, especially those who are working. Now, Mr. Speaker, we have a growing number of students who are leaving their communities to attend school. We have people entering the workforce. We understand there will be a 30 per cent increase and this is phase I. While this is being discussed, we're also aware across Canada that people are interested in home ownership and it is very difficult to buy your own property.

The rent increases are set to begin April 1st, with a rent increase to 30 per cent. In the following year, this will be increased to 60 per cent and in the third year, it will change to 90 per cent. Mr. Speaker, my last comment is that it will eventually become 100 per cent. With these things happening, people are thinking about the deadline of April 1st. Is there no other solution you can come up with before implementing this on that date? This is a concern for our constituents and we also heard on the news that there was some discussion on TVNC about it. People talked about how many people will have to start looking into buying or moving into other units as long as they have a steady income.

Elders will be paying $2.00 a month for their rent. While that might be the case, people in the workforce still have to deal with the paperwork and deal with a 30 per cent increase on top of everyday utilities such as telephones and oil. This will take a big chip out of people's incomes. On behalf of my constituents, I want to express the need to look for other solutions before you implement the rental increase as of April 1st.

Mr. Speaker, we are not simply against this idea. It is not that we just want to stop the implementation. We need more time to be able to look at other possible options. For those of us who have a good income and who can obtain our own housing, it is not too much of a problem but there are many people who are actually considering quitting their employment to remain in their own housing, to avoid the higher costs. I speak on behalf of the people who rent these units from the housing association. Be reminded that we do not just plan to put an end to this, we want to have some time to look at other options. Mr. Speaker, please give us more time for the people who are renting to see if we cannot look at other options. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, March 1st, is the national day for the country that I came from many, many years ago, so I always celebrate it. Today I would like to read into the record, Mr. Speaker, a letter from a fellow Welshman who has been involved with mineral exploration and mining in the Northwest Territories for close to 30 years. He is the president of Aber Resources, his name is Grenville Thomas; this is what he says in his recent letter to Mr. Lovell, the mayor of Yellowknife: "Thank you very much for your call this morning in regard to Aber's closure of its Yellowknife office. I can assure you that it has nothing to do with any concern we have with the city of Yellowknife or the services supplied.

"I am enclosing a letter I wrote to Nellie Cournoyea a year ago expressing my concerns with over-regulation. This is a big problem in the Northwest Territories and in Canada as a whole. However, in addition to this you have devolution, division, land claims, native self-government, environmentalist and all manner of self-interest groups to cope with, in an Alice in Wonderland scenario. Great for Alice, but not for the mining companies striving to discover and develop northern deposits.

"The amount of hot air generated and the paper required to record it all is staggering for a population of 60,000 people. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, never has so much paper been generated by so many for so few. For example, Aber is currently prevented from working on Victoria Island land because of a dispute over jurisdiction between the federal government and the Inuvialuit. Bear in mind that Inuvialuit settlement was made in 1987. The north desperately needs someone to pull this desperate group together by emphasizing their common interest as northerners, not their differences."

The letter is signed by Mr. Thomas and at the bottom he has a PS that says "I'm going to Argentina in late February; just to look around you understand." Because things are obviously not going very well for his company even though they are still active in the Northwest Territories.

People are attracted to overseas, Mr. Speaker, because of greater security of tenure, reduced taxes and royalties, tax periods, greater possibility of owning things and also access to high-level mineral resources. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, my time is now up.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Item 3, Members' statement. Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, the gasoline tax was increased by the recent federal government, at least the federal portion on the gasoline tax, by 1.5 cents a litre. With the addition of the GST, this should have raised the price of gas by 1.61 cents a litre.

Mr. Speaker, I object to the federal tax increase apparently being used as an excuse to extract an additional 1.19 cents from my constituents who are solely dependent on this retailer. I object to being told that the new price of 77 cents a litre is based on the increased federal tax plus GST when it is quite apparently a federal tax increase, plus GST, plus a price increase. The product is delivered and purchased on an annual basis. The dealer has a monopoly and a lot of people in my community depend on that gasoline, including people who live on the land.

I'm going to explore what remedies might be available to deal with this situation and I'm glad for the chance to report to this House on this problem. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have received and reviewed the information about the recent federal budget. I'm especially concerned about the financial impact on the average citizen in the Northwest Territories. From the information and analysis that I have seen, the major impact will be on the middle-class citizen, those who own vehicles, travel by air and live around Great Slave Lake.

The most notable impact -- and my colleague from Iqaluit mentioned it already -- will be on the pocketbooks of most residents who drive or purchase gasoline and that's because of the increase in gas prices. The federal excise tax on gasoline was increased by 1.5 cents per litre. Add to this the Government of the Northwest Territories gasoline tax of 17 per cent for another 0.255 cents a litre and, on top of that, GST of seven per cent for 0.123 cents a litre, and we have an increase of approximately 1.9 cents per litre of gasoline.

The price of aviation gasoline will also increase similarly. This means that probably all transportation company rates -- the trucking industry, airline industry, and taxi industry -- will increase to cover these fuel increases. The customer pays. The air transportation tax will also be increased by 10 per cent as of March 31, 1995. The maximum tax rate now imposed on all air travel will increase from $50 to $55 per ticket. This increase will impact northerners much more than other Canadians because of our heavy reliance on air travel. In many of our communities, people have no choice but to travel by air. This is another direct hit on the customer's pocketbook.

The other tax, called the public utilities income tax transfer, will be eliminated effective April 1, 1995.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue my statement.

The Member for Inuvik is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi. This will impact over 8,000 customers living mainly around the Great Slave Lake area. The tax will mean that each customer will have to pay an average of about $2 per month on their electricity bill, or about $24 per year. This increase is on top of the charges already imposed to cover the low-water surcharge and the upcoming general rate increase proposed by the Northwest Territories Power Corporation.

Mr. Speaker, my concern is that, at first glance, these don't seem like large increases. But add them up, and the accumulated impact is large. The majority of these revenues from the tax increases will go directly to the federal government to help pay off the deficit. So, even though it may seem like the federal budget was relatively harmless to the average northerner, the federal government continually picks away at our incomes by increasing taxes on goods and services and on industry which we, in the Northwest Territories, consider essential for our survival: gasoline, air travel and electricity. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Like many Canadians, I listened carefully on Monday when the Honourable Paul Martin delivered his Budget Address in the House of Commons. For a long time, many people have been calling on the federal government to reduce the amount of money it is spending. Our national deficit has grown to the point where there is a risk that international financial institutions may stop investing in this country. This has weakened the federal government and Canada's financial status in the world.

With Mr. Martin's budget, Ottawa has cut spending drastically and will be privatizing many services like the railroads and Petro Canada, in an attempt to reduce the federal deficit. Some of these actions may be quite positive, but the federal budget has also raised many questions about how these spending cuts will affect the people of the Northwest Territories. It will be important for the Government of the Northwest Territories to make decisions about how to respond and it will be important to ensure that all northerners have input in those decisions.

Mr. Speaker, the budget announcement made in Ottawa on Monday carried significant implications for the Northwest Territories. The earliest projections suggest that we may lose about $58 million from next year's transfer payments and some federal positions will be lost, with the possible downgrading in government services and implications for community economies. The cost of transportation, already the highest in Canada, will be increased even more by new taxes on certain petroleum products, airport fees and possibly, eventual user fees for airports. Reductions in Canada assistance program funding and the so-called social transfer will undoubtedly impact on the most needy members of our society.

Mr. Speaker, these changes are here. I agree with our Minister of Finance, the Honourable John Pollard, that there is little to be gained in moaning about the tougher, tighter times that face our governments. However, it will be important that the Government of the Northwest Territories carefully plan out the specific measures we need to take in the face of this new budget. We must evaluate the impact of the federal downsizing and project reductions in the funding we receive from Ottawa. We will need to explore new and innovative approaches to delivering government programs and services and to identify areas where our own administrations can be made leaner and more productive.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member for Nahendeh is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, these decisions should not be made solely in government offices and boardrooms. I applaud the Minister's commitment to meeting with the Standing Committee on Finance for discussions on implications created by Mr. Martin's budget. I trust he will listen carefully to the views expressed not only by the committee but also by all honourable Members of this House. However, I will call on him to go even further and establish a consultation strategy that will allow community leaders, chiefs, mayors, aboriginal organizations, business people, chambers of commerce, social agencies and others in the community to become involved in our fiscal planning.

Mr. Speaker, it has been pointed out that the budgetary measures announced yesterday will reflect a fundamental change in the way federal and provincial governments operate in Canada. We have one year to prepare ourselves for this transformation in government relationships. In setting the Northwest Territories course for responding to this fundamental change, I believe it is essential to hear directly from the people who are affected and I will be urging our Minister of Finance to establish a broad and effective consultation process in this regard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on February 27th regarding the coverage of chiropractic services under the health plan.

Mr. Speaker, chiropractic services are not considered a benefit under the non-insured health benefits program provided to registered Indian and Inuit clients.

However, Health Canada, the federal department which funds the program, does make exceptions on a case-by-case basis. The patient must be referred to a chiropractor by a physician. Health Canada reviews the chiropractor's treatment plan, the duration of treatment and the associated costs before they make a decision. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Whitford.

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since he sits directly in front of me every day and looks intently at me every day and reminds me of all the workers in my constituency, I would like to recognize Mr. Ben MacDonald of the Union of Northern Workers.

---Applause

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have here today visiting us from the Kaw Tay Whee School in Dettah, Bob Chaiko and the grades five and six students.

---Applause

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize one of the former students in Lake Harbour who is now one of the interpreters, Ooleepika Ikkidluak.

---Applause

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of the Workers' Compensation Board. I had a call from a person in Inuvik who is very concerned about the rates that a certain industry pays for workers' compensation. The rate is for taxi drivers and dispatchers. The rate is $4.40 per $100 of payroll for dispatchers. This is a straightforward calculation based on salary. For taxi drivers it's different because we know taxi drivers don't usually work on a salary basis. The Workers' Compensation Board treats them as self-employed and they choose to apply for personal operational coverage which is now approximately $2,000 a year, as compared to $365 before.

The concern of this individual was only on the dispatchers who pay a high rate. She said what is going to happen to a dispatcher? He or she can bang their elbow on a table or hit the phone or fall off their dispatch chairs, but they pay the same rate as drivers. So my question to the Minister is why do administrative staff in the taxi industry pay the same rate as drivers?

Minister of Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The board of directors of the WCB decided that effective January 1, 1995, taxi companies would be assessed $4.40 per $100 for all hourly or commissioned staff. That includes the operators of the taxis and operators of the telephones. That was the decision made by the board of directors at that time.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

I have that information, but my question is why because the risks are quite different. The risk of sitting in an office answering telephones and directing traffic is quite different than a driver in a cab doing the legwork, generating revenues for both governments through their fuel usage. Why are the administrative staff paying the same rates as drivers? Shouldn't there be some leeway or some reductions in the rates that they're charged?

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, the responsibility for rate assessment lies with the board of directors, so I would have to check with the board of directors for the reason they've put the operators in the same category as those who drive taxi. Thank you.

Mr. Koe, Supplementary.

Is the Minister making a commitment to review this and get back to us, or is he just going to do it on his own? I would like to know what course of action the Minister is going to take on reviewing this issue.

Mr. Todd.

(Microphone turned off)...responsibility for assessing the rates is determined by the board of directors of the WCB. I will check with the board of directors as to the reasoning behind this decision to include all taxi operations under the one rate and report back to the honourable Member. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi. As I mentioned, the personal optional coverage for taxi drivers who are considered self-employed is now being increased to $2,000 a year from $365 a year. Would the Minister also ask the people who set the rates why the phenomenal increase to this rate?

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's an easy one to answer. The taxi industry revenue between 1990 and 1993 was $69,184. The claims paid out during that period was $435,954. That's how, from my experience, that WCB determines rates. It's based upon the expenses and expenditures that have occurred and the ability to recover. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, in the federal budget that came down on Monday, there was some mention of possible reductions to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. As we know, the last time we had mention in a budget about cuts to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, before we knew it we had lost over $40 million. Is there any danger that the federal government will now look at the operations and maintenance side of the Housing Corporation and try to cut that part of the operation?

Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The information I have received from CMHC so far is that they are closing approximately 24 regional CMHC offices. They are not going to close the office in the Northwest Territories. The offices that are closed will have a residential CMHC official to handle all concerns that are directed to CMHC and those officials will be working out of their homes, I believe. There is also mention that there will be a $270 million cut throughout Canada for CMHC, and that cut will be from potential savings that CMHC as well as ourselves and every jurisdiction were able to save through refinancing of mortgages. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister well knows, we are very dependent on the O and M federal component to pay for the maintenance of approximately 5,000 housing units or whatever we have here in the territories. Does the Minister feel that the O and M funding from the federal government is in any jeopardy?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You never know what the federal government means when they say something because the last time they said they were going to cap the growth on social housing programs, and when they said they were going to cap the growth it turned out to be a 100 per cent cut in new construction of social housing. So we are still trying to decipher what they mean. The minute I have a better idea of what they actually mean by a $270 million cut from the savings, I will let the Members of the Assembly know. Thank you.

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you. On a couple of other occasions I brought up this concept to the Minister. I think we all recognize that there is a potential threat to the O and M cutting; it's a fatted calf just waiting there for somebody to start to strip the meat off. Would the Minister consider making a proposal to the federal government to look at turning over the existing funding the federal government has for O and M for housing before they start to cut it? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If that is the way to go and if that is the way we can ensure that we can guarantee the funding for the future, we will take a serious look at it. But we also have legal and binding agreements with CMHC on long-term mortgages on our rental units. As far as I understand it, we are locked into them and they are legal agreements that they cannot be cut. I will look at it and see if it's viable to do anything else. Thank you.

Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister Education, Culture and Employment. Can the Minister advise this House whether or not a day care subsidy policy has been developed? Thank you.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you. If I might, I can indicate to the honourable Member that we have had changes to the child care programs that have existed in the Northwest Territories and redefined them since September.

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to follow up, can the Minister indicate to me whether or not a policy has been developed and completed? Thank you.

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, and in fact, Mr. Speaker, I believe we sent copies of the policies to all Members to inform them of the changes that have been made to the policy so that Members will be aware. We have also sent them to the communities.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's what I thought; I just wanted to make sure. I want to ask the Minister what the criteria is that is used by his department to

determine subsidies for child care for individuals who require them, particularly students. Thank you.

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just so Members are aware, the child care user subsidy program now includes a new, more equitable subsidy for parents based on the needs test. Part-time child care is now available, including after school care. As well, assistance is available for parents who are not employed or are studying but whose children are at risk and would benefit from a program of early intervention.

The other component is the child care start-up support and the contributions to assist the start-up cost of licensed, non-profit child care programs have been enhanced. We are providing additional assistance to promote more openings for infants and children requiring additional support. This contribution is now available to assist the start-up of part-time and after-school programs. The support is available for minor health and safety renovations. There is also the issue of program support, training and wage incentives for caregivers. The other issue we are now working on is the approach to early interventions as a part of the overall child care program.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the past while I have been getting calls from many of the students who are unable to access the child care subsidy program. The Minister indicated there is a means test with respect to this. Can he indicate to this House what criteria they use on implementing the needs test that they have developed? Thank you.

Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Speaker, I don't have the details of that, so I will report back to the honourable Member. It depends on the amount of money. In the case of Arctic College students, there are some students who are paying rents of $210 who receive the full amount of support for their education, and then there are some situations where there are students who are paying $900 rent, and it depends on those kinds of circumstances. So, I will report back the details. The problem is that without specific information it is very hard to determine, but I will advise the honourable Member and Members of the House more appropriately and probably in a written statement on that matter.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Finance. Without a doubt, the new federal budget will require him to examine ways of living within our means when projected cuts to federal financing are realized next year. This may include downsizing many of our own government departments. At the same time, cuts to federal programs may mean that some of the government services that are important to northerners, possibly in terms of environmental protection, transportation and social programs, will be substantially unavailable. There may be pressures on the Government of the Northwest Territories to pick up the pieces and take on new responsibilities before we had planned to do so. These are issues that will affect all northerners. Does the Minister plan to consult with northern leaders and the public at large in planning our government's response to the fundamental change that is represented by yesterday's federal budget? Mahsi.

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, the Member raises a good point. We are stuck with an impact upon us fiscally that has caught us in an election year, and there may be some people who say that we don't have a mandate and make any changes at the present time. But, certainly, the people of the Northwest Territories are going to be affected by the federal budget that was announced and by the impacts it is going to have on us in future years. I think it's incumbent upon us to have some kind of consultation process to say to people, similar to the way the Liberal government did with pre-budget consultations, what do you think? What are the services that are not important to you or what are the services that are most important to you? What do you think of these programs, et cetera.

So, yes, I will come back to the House with some means of having consultations with people in the Northwest Territories. But I will advise you, Mr. Speaker, and advise this House that I wouldn't be getting into $500,000 consultation fees. We just don't have that money to spend. I will attempt to find a way to allow people in the Northwest Territories to express their opinions to the government and, hence, to this House on the way they view any budget changes that may take place in the next few years. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

I like what the Minister had to say about this. I'm certain, Mr. Speaker, that there are many leaders in the north, elders, business people and other residents of the communities, who will have ideas about areas that should and shouldn't be cut back if the Northwest Territories receives less money from the federal government. How can these people make the Minister aware of their opinion and how can they tell

the Minister what changes they think this government should make under these new financial conditions? Thank you.

Mr. Pollard.

As I said, Mr. Speaker, I will come up with some method of doing that. First of all, knowing that we are on television right now and being broadcast at some time today across the Northwest Territories, I would encourage members of the general public to get a hold of their MLAs. That's the first and best pipeline to get to the Government of the Northwest Territories, to talk to MLAs. In the meantime, if there are specific questions that need to be answered by the government, then they could just call my office.

Secondly, with regard to how we would consult, I will look at that situation, Mr. Speaker, and try to find an economical way to allow people to have input into any changes that may occur. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister identify where the lead responsibility will be within the government and the public service for the shaping of our plan for responding to this federal budget? Mahsi.

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, the responsibility falls to the Financial Management Board. It is all of Cabinet sitting as the Financial Management Board who will shape the responses to these fiscal pressures. Usually, under their direction, I incorporate some kind of plan to go out and discuss things with the department. The point man on that is usually Lew Voytilla who works with the other deputy ministers to bring back to FMB any information required for them to make decisions. I would say that FMBS will be the prime leader in this, backed up by the rest of the departments. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today's Yellowknifer puts our Finance Minister and a very famous Roman politician who lived 2,000 years ago in the same headline. About 2,000 years ago a Roman senator called Cicero said we have to lessen dependence on government, get people to work and get the economy moving. We can't have all these handouts, we have to create our own wealth. Mr. Pollard, I'm sure, should be very happy to see that comparison.

Since, in his budget address, he has pointed out that what we have to do is encourage our economy and in light of the letter I read this morning, Mr. Speaker, about mining companies giving up because this isn't seen as a good place to do business, what did this government do in this budget in order to make it more attractive for all the money in the south to come into the territories? Is there anything in this budget to make it attractive for those people to operate here?

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, I think we did a number of things. We didn't raise taxes and we didn't raise corporate taxes. We said we wanted to get control of the resources in the Northwest Territories which we believe will cut out some of this duplication. Right now, companies have to deal with us, they have to deal with sometimes two or three departments in Ottawa, and by the time they get to us, it must be very difficult for them. In the budget speech, we said that if Mr. Todd is able to make an arrangement and we are able to take over the northern accord, we would be understanding of these companies' desire to have a system which is less bureaucratic and more prone to making decisions quickly and with less paperwork.

We have been lobbied by mining companies and they've told us how difficult it is. I think what we were saying in the budget speech is if we take over responsibility, we have got to make it more efficient and recognize that these people need to get on with their business, as opposed to fighting with the government all the time. That's the message we were trying to send, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's fine to say, yes, we'll eventually get an accord so we can share in the wealth. But, what if there isn't any produced and people aren't going to come here because it is so difficult. Since this is the budget session and we're talking about economics, I would like to ask the Minister of Finance a question, although he may want to defer it to another Minister. I understand that one of the big problems that many of the companies that would like to put in millions of dollars into this part of the world experience is the problem of tenure. How much certainty of tenure do companies have in doing work here with all this debate going on about who owns what?

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, I agree that it is confusing, particularly for people who come from board rooms where the dollar on the bottom line is the big deal. They make decisions on millions of dollars by fax and telephone. They are used to

doing business very, very quickly. They are used to

being told that yes, they own, they have the land, it is free hold title, or it's theirs for 50 years, et cetera. Then they come to the Northwest Territories and see the different stages of land claim negotiations that aboriginal people are in with the federal government and they start to worry about tenure.

Mr. Speaker, I have to say this. To my knowledge, there has never been a mining company kicked off a piece of property by someone in the Northwest Territories. There may have been some influence put on them such as: "You are on our land, so we expect you to hire some of our people." That's straight economics. I've yet to listen to an aboriginal group who are not going to respect leases that are already out there. I think it's more confusion on behalf of the mining companies than anything else. I've yet to see anything concrete that has risked their investment in the Northwest Territories.

Perhaps we have a role to play there. Perhaps we need to be the ball that bounces between the people who have claims on the land and the people who want to do business in the Northwest Territories. Maybe there's a mediation role that we can play. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will give one example just this morning of somebody who has a claim on Victoria Island who can't develop it because of the uncertainty of tenure and so on. To keep that claim alive, you have to pay money every year and get so much work done, otherwise it lapses. That's one example. I would like to ask the same Minister, although we're very much interested in revenue, companies are also interested in revenue. Does the government have any kind of role to play in making it more attractive for companies to operate here? For example, by giving them a reduction in the kinds of taxes they have to pay because the initial costs are so very heavy? Have you given any thought at all to helping people during the start-up period so that it's easier to phase in by giving some kind of tax holiday for a year or two? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, there is some controversy across Canada right now because there is a very aggressive province on the east coast that is attracting people from as far away as BC by giving out certain tax holidays or certain concessions. It would be my contention that governments aren't very good at this kind of thing, Mr. Speaker. If something is there to make a profit and people are going to be hired, et cetera, it probably doesn't need government help, other than the fact that tax rates should be competitive with the rest of Canada. There shouldn't be any reason to give these people an advantage to go and dig something out of the ground. It should be an all-round economic advantage for the owners, for the people who work there, and for the people who live and die in the Northwest Territories.

Yes, we have looked at giving tax holidays. Yes, we have looked at giving incentives. The only thing that I would be prepared to suggest at the present time, Mr. Speaker, is some kind of payment to companies that will hire people from the Northwest Territories and train those people. I believe that Mr. Nerysoo has been looking at that, but that would be the only thing I would suggest at the present time, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne.

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice. In the recent federal government budget there was talk of some cutbacks in the area of legal aid and in youth justice committees. Will the federal cutbacks in the Solicitor General's office impact any of your programs here in the territories?

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Economic Development and Tourism spends approximately $1 million on direct marketing. Up until the recent cut, it spent $600,000 plus in development of the zone associations that we've taken a hard look at. Over and above that, we've spent $200,000 on the Explorer magazine and $250,000 on a 1-800 number. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I fundamentally believe that the marketing money should be in the hands of the private sector. It should not be left solely up to some bureaucrat in Yellowknife to determine how we're going to market the territories. It's our intention that once the review we're doing of zone associations is completed, should we be able to reach an appropriate arrangement east and west where we have two distinct zones which are running efficiently and are representative of the industry, I would make a commitment here and now to transfer the marketing dollars to those two zone associations so they can determine an appropriate marketing strategy that meets the needs of those in the tourist industry. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Todd.