This is page numbers 1075 - 1108 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1093

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the purpose of the Deficit Elimination Act is to avoid a large government deficit and require that any deficit that is incurred in one year be offset by an equivalent surplus in the following year.

Mr. Chairman, the government's limited tax revenue and our primary dependence on federal funding do not enable the territories to service debt to the same extent as other jurisdictions. As a result, debt, Mr. Chairman, must be avoided at all costs. The act in its current form has been jointly developed by the government and the Standing Committee on Finance. It contains, Mr. Chairman, challenging fiscal provisions and substantive measures to hold the government accountable.

I will try to answer any questions that Members may have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. On behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance, which reviewed the particular bill, Mr. Antoine, do you have opening remarks?

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is a little confusion here about the procedures. I'm not an expert on the procedures of the House, so I just needed a little bit of help here. Regarding Bill 30, Deficit Elimination Act, Mr. Chairman, we gave a report on it yesterday. I would like to thank the Minister of Finance for working with the Standing Committee on Finance to come to a consensus on that. The committee is now prepared to support this bill with the amendments we have recommended to the Minister. Thank you.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we have any general comments on Bill 30 from the committee?

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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An Hon. Member

Clause by clause.

Clause By Clause

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Okay, I hear a request to go clause by clause. Bill 30, Deficit Elimination Act. Clause 1.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 2 of Bill 30.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 3. Ms. Mike.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

April 26th, 1995

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make a few comments, for the record, about this particular bill because I have some concerns. As you know, I am a Member of the Standing Committee on Finance, to which I was appointed recently. I wasn't a participant right from the beginning on this particular bill; it was recommended by the Standing Committee on Finance to the government when I was a Cabinet Member.

The problem I have with it concerns the area of the bill where the Cabinet is the only body that will be accountable should we have a deficit by 1997-98. Mr. Chairman, from my understanding of consensus government, which our government is -- a one-party system -- it is important to me that this be recorded. I think it would be fair that all 24 Members should be accountable, should we have a deficit by the year 1997-98. I say this because in our system we have standing committees that fully participate in government operations and make recommendations to the government that might result in incurring additional expenditures of this particular government. With the practice we have been carrying out, all 24 Members have selected the Cabinet. To hold only eight out of 24 accountable is not responsible, in my eyes.

As I stated previously, the standing committees of Finance or Legislation recommendations can result in additional expenditures of the government. For these reasons, I wanted to make this comment on the record, Mr. Chairman. Although I do support the principle of the bill, I have some concerns, especially in the area where only Cabinet Members will be held accountable should we have a deficit situation by the year 1997-98. I think it should be all 24 Members. Rightly so, it should be 24, Mr. Chairman, because here we are, we're still sitting at the end of April. We were supposed to finish by April 13th. We're still incurring additional costs. The longer we sit here the more money we're spending. These are the concerns I have that I wanted to say to this House. Thank you.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Although the comment made by Ms. Mike on accountability is not directly in clause 3, I will allow the question in this case because it's indirectly part of the bill. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since Ms. Mike has raised the question, I would like to ask the Minister of Finance whether there are provisions in this bill, or there are provisions that he will propose in this bill, which will make it clear that the responsibility for elimination of the deficit is that of the Legislative Assembly as well as that of the Cabinet itself. Is there a way that question can be dealt with and recognized in this bill? Thank you.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, not specifically in the bill, but my understanding is that after clause 6, the chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance will ask for unanimous consent to ask for some whereases to the bill, and perhaps those whereases will address that particular issue. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 3. Mr. Koe.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

In clause 3, it talks about some restriction in clause 3(3), saying there may not be a deficit in the 1998-99 fiscal year. During the past five years we have been accumulating debt and accumulating a deficit. We've incurred, I believe, over $150 million of debt in the last four or five years. Next year, we're projecting another $50 million plus. How does this bill account for accumulated deficits, accumulated debt?

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Honourable Minister.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, the act comes into force April 1, 1996 so it does not deal with any accumulated debt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 3. Honourable Member for Inuvik.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Is the honourable Minister of Finance saying that effective April 1, 1996 this government shall be debt free?

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Honourable Minister of Finance.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, that would be my hope. I realize what Mr. Koe is saying, that we are facing some very tough times. It has been talked about that there may have to be $100 million cut. Probably those numbers being thrown around are alarming people, but let's just say if it's even $60 million, it's still a lot of money. I would think that at that time when that issue is addressed, the accumulated debt should be addressed at that time as well. I would hope that the next government would be able to put in place a budget that obeys this act and, at the same time, addresses the accumulated debt of that particular time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 3. The honourable Member for Inuvik.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Fred Koe Inuvik

That's my concern. What happens if it doesn't? What happens come April 1, 1996? There is an election in the fall, there could be a new slate of officers coming into a government that has an accumulated debt. Decisions are made all the time that impact ongoing years in terms of contracts, commitments and what not. A lot of the people -- and Ms. Mike referred to it -- are impacted by no design of their own, it's just a timing thing. I'm just wondering how this was accounted for in this bill. We're putting the onus on the Ministers, and rightly so because they're in the inner circle; they make the big decisions and get paid the big dollars. But all 24 Members are involved in approving the budget. So it's ludicrous to say we're going to fire all 24 Members because they incurred a deficit. I'm just making a point to support what Becky had said.

I'm just wondering how this was delivered in this bill and whether or not the amendments are going to address this.