This is page numbers 765 - 792 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was corporation.

Supplementary To Question 388-12(7): Provisions For Removal Of First Nations Leadership
Question 388-12(7): Provisions For Removal Of First Nations Leadership
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 388-12(7): Provisions For Removal Of First Nations Leadership
Question 388-12(7): Provisions For Removal Of First Nations Leadership
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, there are no specific provisions that I know of offhand that would lend to it. In many, many cases, people are starting to see that long-term planning, long-term stability is essential for the well-being of the businesses that are charged to the care of the chief, the councils and other elected officials. That political instability also leads to instability of business and economic interests.

So, while people still look at it in the sense that people at the community level have the ultimate power to put you into office and to take you out. That understanding alone is often enough to make people very careful about the things that they ask people to do, the way in which those people carry out their jobs, and how they account for themselves. It seems to me, my impression is that the more business we conduct ourselves, the more self-governing we become, the less need there is for that sort of undefined method of removing elected people. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 388-12(7): Provisions For Removal Of First Nations Leadership
Question 388-12(7): Provisions For Removal Of First Nations Leadership
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Ningark.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table Tabled Document 78-12(7), a letter from Mr. Anthony Anguttitauruq regarding old age pensions. It is addressed to myself. Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 18, second reading of bills. Ms. Cournoyea.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Sorry, Mr. Speaker, may I move back to tabling of documents?

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to go back to tabling of documents. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Ms. Cournoyea.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 79-12(7) terms of reference, Foulger Aviation Services Inc., recommendations for forest fire aircraft contracts for 1995.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Ms. Mike.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 80-12(7), correspondence received by myself from Mayor David Tagoona regarding the implementation of the rent scale.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14 reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters:Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96; Bill 13, An Act to Amend the Fair Practices Act; Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Retirement Plan Beneficiaries Act; Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Elections Act, No. 2; Bill 24, Community Employees' Benefits Act; Bill 27, An Act to Amend the Land Titles Act; Committee Report 2-12(7), Report on the Legislative Action Paper on the Office of Ombudsman for the Northwest Territories; Committee Report 3-12(7), Report on the Review of the Legislative Action Paper Proposing New Heritage Legislation for the Northwest Territories; Committee Report 4-12(7), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Main Estimates; Committee Report 5-12(7), Report on the Review of Rewriting the Liquor Laws of the Northwest Territories: A Legislative Action Paper; and, Committee Report 6-12(7), Report on the Review of the Legislative Discussion Paper on the Draft of the New Education Act, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

April 2nd, 1995

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The committee will come to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend that the committee resume consideration of Bill 1 and Committee Report 4-12(7), specifically to deal with the budget of the NWT Power Corporation and, if we should conclude that, to move back to the Housing Corporation budget and then, perhaps, Justice.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent is recommending that we deal with the budget of the NWT Power Corporation and then the NWT Housing Corporation budget and, if we're able to conclude those two items, that we move on to Justice. Do we have the concurrence of the committee?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We will take a 10- minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

We are dealing with the NWT Power Corporation. Honourable Minister responsible, do you have opening remarks?

Minister's Introductory Remarks

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, you have received the 1995-96 operations and maintenance draft budget and this package, which includes the corporation's goals and objectives, is in the same format provided to the committee the last two years. the government's. The 1995-96 budget will be approved by the corporation's board of directors in March 1995. This draft budget has now been reviewed by the corporation's senior management.

The draft budget estimates 1995-96 net income at approximately $7 million and is based on the application to the Public Utilities Board (PUB) for an automatic fuel adjustment clause. If approved, it will automatically pass on fuel price increases or decreases. A decision on this application is expected by May 1995.

The corporation has reviewed the need for a general rate application for the 1995-96 year to increase rates. The need for this increase is dependent on the water levels in the Snare/Yellowknife system. If water levels are low again in 1995-96,the corporation will apply for a rate increase to recover the increased fuel costs. This will allow the corporation to earn its full rate of return of approximately $10 million.

The current low water levels in the Snare River system, caused by unusually dry conditions last spring and summer, unfortunately added to the Yellowknife/Rae Edzo diesel dependence. It means that approximately $4.3 million in extra fuel will be burned to supply needed power in 1994-95. The PUB decision to spread $1 million of this extra cost across the north, while collecting the remaining $3.3 million directly from the Yellowknife system, was fair. It has been met with disappointment, but acceptance from most outside regions.

In order to continue to be able to pay a dividend to the GNWT to fund the territorial power support program and continue to be able to reinvest in equipment, it is essential that the Power Corporation earn its full return on equity and this necessitates rate increases from time to time. Based on present estimates, this will require an increase of approximately three per cent in 1995-96. The corporation was involved in Public Utilities Board hearings in Iqaluit and Inuvik in January to address concerns and information requests about a more equitable system of power rates across the NWT. In response to these hearings, the corporation has proposed that, as an interim measure, rates should be adjusted to the cost of providing power in each community and that an additional study of options be undertaken before finalizing how rates will be set.

The Public Utilities Board has yet to make its decision on how this should be done. The PUB's decision, when received, will likely see rates beginning to be adjusted in May 1995. Rates will both increase and decrease to better reflect the cost of providing power. These rate changes will not result in the corporation earning any additional revenue. The corporation is spending a considerable amount of time and resources in helping to gather all the information to determine how rates should be set. Our common objective, Mr. Chairman, is to see a system of rates that is fair and stable across the north.

Mr. Chairman, the corporation hopes to see progress soon in the long-standing compensation issue for Treaty 8 members over impacts of the Taltson River hydro project. Last year, the corporation was directed by the NWT Water Board to address the matter along with environmental studies, as conditions of its water licence. Meetings were held this week, and have been planned for later in March, with Treaty 8 chiefs and affected residents, to resolve impacts during the term of our licence and perhaps beyond.

The ceremonial ground breaking late in August at the Snare Cascades hydro site was an historic event for both the corporation and the Dogrib Nation. Their 4.3 megawatt, $27 million plant will pay a dividend to the Dogrib people through a 65 year operating lease with the Power Corporation, and provide about 100 jobs before it is commissioned in the summer of 1996.

The Legislative Assembly will be requested to guarantee a borrowing bill by the NWT Energy Corporation Ltd., a wholly- owned subsidiary of the Power Corporation, to finance this project. This guarantee, which is similar to guarantees given to the Power Corporation for their borrowing, will allow the Energy Corporation to borrow money at the most favourable rates. The financing raised by the Energy Corporation will be used to finance the Snare Cascades hydro project. There will be no cost to the Government of the Northwest Territories for this borrowing, as the debt will be repaid with proceeds from the agreements between the NWT Power Corporation and the Dogrib Power Corporation.

An I announced in the Legislative Assembly in the previous session, the government has decided to postpone the privatization initiative. It will be up to the newly-elected Legislature, after the election this October, to decide on further action.

The Standing Committee on Finance's report expressed concern in the corporation's planning and sensitivity to dramatic rate changes. Let me assure the committee that the Power Corporation is sensitive to the effects of rate increases, and appreciative of the need for prudent planning. The corporation has addressed a number of areas over the last six years and will continue to do so in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am ready to address any questions your committee may have.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Premier. On behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance that reviewed the bill, Mr. Antoine.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Jim Antoine

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mineral exploration does not require power from a corporation. However, if that exploration is fruitful, the resulting mining operations become large consumers of power. The committee recognizes the potential for future sales based on the success of the current mineral exploration. It is crucial that the corporation develop specific plans for providing services to these new users.

Committee Members continue to express a desire for the corporation to put more effort into exploring alternative energy sources. As we said in a previous report:

"Any initiative which might bring down costs to consumers should be carefully investigated by the corporation. The Power Corporation is an important economic and social instrument that should continue to play an important role serving the people of the north in cooperation with the Government of the Northwest Territories."

Finally, committee Members note the corporation's continuing phase II general rate application presently before the Public Utilities Board (PUB). The committee appreciates that the goal of this application -- to make power rates more reflective of the true cost of providing that power -- means there will be significant changes to the corporation's rate structure, and to the power bills of many northerners There will be significant effects on the government. Not only will the government's own power bills be affected, but there could be large changes to the amounts paid to domestic and commercial consumers under the power subsidy program. Committee Members feel that the government should be involved in the PUB hearings in such a way as to ensure that their interests are well represented.

As for the application itself, the corporation's initial proposal -- which included two large rate zones covering those communities whose power is provided by diesel generation -- provoked quite an outcry from many customers. Committee Members are not satisfied with the way the corporation handled this application. Similarly, committee Members expressed similar concerns at the corporation's 1994 application for a low water rider surcharge. The committee notes that, with respect to that application, the Public Utilities Board: "indicated its concern with respect to the lack of prudence shown by NWTPC in not properly planning for low-water years." These incidents demonstrate to the committee that the corporation needs to be more prudent in its planning, and more sensitive to the impact of dramatic changes in power rates on its customers.

That's the report of the Standing Committee on Finance, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Before I get into general comments, I would like to ask the Premier if she wishes to bring in the witnesses.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we have the agreement of the committee that the honourable Minister bring in the witnesses?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Bring in the witnesses, please.

Thank you, welcome to the committee. Madam Premier, for the record, would you please introduce the witnesses.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The floor is now open for general comments from the membership. Mr. Ballantyne.

General Comments