This is page numbers 853 - 883 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was recall.

Topics

Further Return To Question 413-12(7): Reason For Funding Reductions To Legal Interpreting Program
Question 413-12(7): Reason For Funding Reductions To Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 858

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Zoe.

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to question the same Minister with regard to the legal interpreting program also. Mr. Speaker, I am appalled at the manner in which the Minister has cut this particular program. As you know, this program has been doing a good job, in my view, in trying to catch up with the other linguistic groups. For instance, Mr. Speaker, this particular program produces a number of manuals, workshop materials, et cetera, to enhance

the legal interpreting program. Mr. Speaker, I have one entitled, "Dogrib Legal Terminology." It is a small book and this was one of the first series of terminology booklets that this program has produced. It only has a small number of legal words that have been translated. I know there is much more work to be done. As my colleague from Nahendeh indicated, the western languages are further behind that the Nunavut languages. That is why I am concerned.

Mr. Speaker, when discussing the reduction to the legal interpreting office yesterday, the Minister of Justice suggested that only one-quarter PY and some O and M funding has been cut. However, this was only the vote 1 funding. The program has traditionally been funded by vote 4 money; money which is less, due to cuts to the languages agreement. We are concerned, Mr. Speaker, that the government has chosen to cut a program which ensures people's rights to defend themselves in a court of law and be clearly understood. In answering Mr. Pudlat's question, why did the Minister refer only to vote 1 funding and not reveal that he had authorized cuts to half of vote 4 funding for this particular program? Mahsi.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 414-12(7): Vote 4 Funding Reductions To Legal Interpreting Program
Question 414-12(7): Vote 4 Funding Reductions To Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 859

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Member should properly be more appalled, if he is at all, at the action taken by the federal government in reducing the commitments they had made in the previous languages agreement. It is a substantial reduction that the federal government has made in the new languages agreement now before us. The federal government is also moving to reduce funding to this government in a number of other areas and programs, so vote 4 money and vote 1 money are both being reduced.

As a government, we have also overspent, again this year. It is anticipated that there will be a substantial deficit. From somewhere, we have to recover fiscally. I don't purport to speak for the Minister of Finance but we are under instructions to find ways in which we can live within our means. As a Minister, I'm simply responding to questions, I'm not withholding information. I do know that when I go on at great length trying to give great detail to Members, I'm sometimes admonished for going on too long.

Over the last couple of years, anyway, I have tried to make my answers focused, simple and to the point. There is no intention to withhold information from Members. I was very happy to be in committee of the whole the other day to finally present my budget for the coming year as the Minister of Justice. But, I've been stood down. Perhaps during the next few days or early next week, I'll have the opportunity to answer in great detail all the questions Members may have in this regard. Thank you.

Return To Question 414-12(7): Vote 4 Funding Reductions To Legal Interpreting Program
Question 414-12(7): Vote 4 Funding Reductions To Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 859

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I would like to recognize the president of the Metis Nation, Gary Bohnet and Mike Paulette also.

---Applause

And I would also like to recognize three mayors: Mayor Dave Lovell, Mayor Joe Kunuk and Mayor Dennis Bevington from Yellowknife, Iqaluit and Fort Smith.

---Applause

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question also for the Minister of Justice. Mr. Speaker, I know the Minister is aware of how critical language is to our court system and how crucial it is that every person in court has the opportunity to be heard and clearly understood. That was confirmed in the Tran case in the Supreme Court of Canada recently, where the right of the accused to have a qualified and competent interpreter under section 14 of the Charter was clearly spelled out by the Supreme Court.

The legal interpreting program no longer has a manager. I would like to ask the Minister, without the support of a properly functioning legal interpreting program, who will ensure a consistent, competent legal translation service within the courts? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 859

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that the functions performed by the manager will now be taken over, in large part, by the official languages coordinator and that will eliminate, in large part, the requirements of that particular position which were to coordinate the training for interpreters, JPs and other people in the courts. Thank you.

Return To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 859

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 859

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I have a report dated January 1995 from the legal interpreting program that shows the staggering number of hours and communities that interpreters have, through this program, have offered in various levels of courts in the Northwest Territories. This is a major undertaking that has been entrusted to the legal interpreting program by the courts. It has the confidence of not only judges but prosecutors and the lawyers. I would like to ask the Minister how this service can possibly continue to be provided on a part-time basis by the official languages unit which has a myriad of other duties. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 859

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 859

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are facing the reality that we have to try to do as much as we have

in the past with less money. It means that there is going to be a reduction in the number of people we employ to carry out the work we have. One of the ways we're trying to face that is through an interdepartmental committee which is tasked with looking at how we can provide training with less money and still provide good, basic, quality training to all sectors of this government. That is what the fund that Mr. Antoine referred to is for. This is headed by the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

The way in which we manage the services within the Department of Justice...As I said my managers are satisfied that the reductions we've introduced are manageable and that we can still deliver. The people we're asking to take over these functions with a reduced scope will be able to do the job adequately. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, this government is unique in Canada in that we allow unilingual people to sit on juries in the Northwest Territories, but this requires great care in the provision of competent interpreting services. Since the legal interpreting program will soon be without a full-time manager and is deprived of the position to coordinate Dene language services, I would like to ask the Minister, in light of the fact that this program has been severely reduced, whether he is now contemplating introducing amendments to the Jury Act to repeal the provision allowing for unilingual juries because we just won't be able to offer the service any longer. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, there is no intention to request amendments to any legislation at this time, as a result of the reductions, by the federal government and this government, to the resources allocated to language services. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Speaker, the Minister tells us that we have less money for these services, which we all know, and tells us that an interdepartmental committee has been established of all affected departments, which is going to help government set priorities. I understand this interdepartmental committee exists and I understand that it is overseeing the study being done by Avery Cooper to decide how best to reallocate and reorganize the money devoted to legal interpreting within various activities of the government.

I would like to ask the Minister again -- and I know this question has been asked -- since the government is spending a precious $45,000 on the Avery Cooper study, wouldn't the logical thing be, if we want to get value out of this study and we want to get everyone involved in setting priorities, to hold off any decisions on arbitrary and selective cuts in the various programs until after the study is complete so the government can get the considered advice and set priorities, considering the range of activities that are now being done. Isn't that the logical way to do it; to hold off decisions until you get considered, independent advice from the consultant and the interdepartmental committee? Isn't that how it should be done? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the firm was retained to look at how we can continue to deliver training within the reduced scope of funding that is being forced upon us. The training right now is done, for instance, by the Department of Justice for its own legal interpreting staff. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment also does its own and so does the Department of Health, I believe. What we have tasked this group to do is simply see how we can centralize the training and make better use of existing dollars.

The way in which we manage our staff is still left to the individual departments. It is my initiative as the Minister of Justice and, as I said earlier, there are many efforts which I can reduce that don't fly in the face of statutory obligations. This area seems to be one that my department is satisfied we can reduce without severely hampering the integrity of the service and without acting contrary to the statutory obligations we have under legislation. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, I don't think the Minister has the horses to do the job but I would like to turn to another issue, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister assures us that the provision of competent interpreters that was formerly done by the legal interpreting program in the Department of Justice will now be handled part-time by the official languages unit and everything will be okay.

I would like to ask the Minister about the ongoing work that is required in identifying terminology and developing terminology to communicate legal concepts, particularly in the aboriginal languages. I would like to ask the Minister, since he has carefully thought through the implications of these cuts, who now will be responsible for continuing this ongoing work in developing and refining legal terminology in the aboriginal languages? Who is going to do it now? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 860

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 861

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, that task is being looked at through the committee. Since it is a component of training, it will fall under the responsibility of the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Question 415-12(7): Impact Of Staff Cuts On Legal Interpreting Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 861

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I'd like to, again, recognize some visitors in the gallery. We have with us from Cambridge Bay Larry Aknavigak, Kane Tologanak is a former Member, and Elizabeth Copeland from Whale Cove.

---Applause

Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.