This is page numbers 1197 - 1228 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was education.

Topics

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the chairman's comments and I would like to say that that's the answer I would have hoped to get. I think that's the view of most people in the Northwest Territories.

I would like to make an additional comment, Mr. Chairman, if I might, again regarding the experience in Iqaluit in local control. I think the community deserves to be commended for having taken the initiative to deal with the problems that were occurring with sometimes unrestrained alcohol consumption in private homes. The community said to the government, we're not saying that our community should be dry, but we don't want to make it quite so easy for people to purchase liquor through the government-operated liquor store, and the Commissioner and the government of the day responded.

I would like to say that when the committee report notes the premise that there should be increased control at the community level, based on the experience of my constituency, I would like to say that I believe this control should extend not just to options for possession and ordering of liquor in a community but it should also extend to the question of establishments licensed by the government to sell liquor.

I think that when the paper and the legislation deals with the question of local control of liquor, it should be broad enough to include taking into account the views of a community about whether or not a liquor store should be established in a community.

I know that this has been and will continue to be an important issue in Iqaluit, but I suspect it will also be an issue in other communities. It may be that in a community where a liquor store is established, they may discover that certain problems were created that weren't there before and I would hope, as the citizens of Iqaluit were able to do, that the community could subsequently petition its government to reconsider the establishment of a liquor store in that community.

I think local control should include local control over vending establishments as well. That might also be the nature and the hours of operation of such a vending establishment in a community. That may go without saying, Mr. Chairman, but I would like to note that on the record, having particular regard to the experience of Iqaluit. Thank you.

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. There was motion, I think, in connection with more control yesterday, so I'm sure the government has noted your concerns.

We're still on Committee Report 5-12(7). Mr. Nerysoo.

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, I know that we're probably at the point where we're almost closing debate on this particular matter of the legislative action paper on rewriting liquor laws. Mr. Chairman, I would like to, before we conclude consideration of this item, thank the honourable Members for their comments and certainly for introducing the motions that they introduced over the past several days.

I can assure you, Mr. Chairman, and all Members, that their views along with the motions that were passed here in committee of the whole will be considered carefully as we proceed with the development of the new Liquor Act. This liquor law review... I must remind all Members that it was originally launched by my colleague, Mr. Todd, in December 1993, who was then the Minister of Safety and Public Services. Since then, Mr. Chairman, I am particularly happy, since I assumed the responsibility for the portfolio with the progress of the comprehensive review of the Liquor Act.

I have felt from the start that this review was timely and important. Our present Liquor Act, as several Members have pointed out, is now 25 years out of date and is in serious need of an overhaul. We need to ensure that the definitions, systems, institutions, standards, penalties, and offences are carefully developed to ensure that our regulatory system is effective.

To me, the key to our success in this Legislative initiative has always been found in the five principles that emerge from our public consultations. I can tell you, Mr. Chairman, that I am pleased that in one of the motions passed yesterday by our colleague, the Member for Thebacha, and supported by the House, that the House has now chosen to endorse these principles as the fundamental ideas that will guide the development of our legislation. In doing so, honourable Members have established the foundation for a liquor regulatory system that prioritizes the basic health and safety needs of people in the Northwest Territories; a foundation which recognizes that the wellness of our northern communities can be influenced by the way we, as a government, exercise regulatory authority over liquor.

This is an approach that jurisdictions all around the world are talking about following. We're not just talking about it, Mr. Chairman, we're doing it. With the feedback we have received from this House and with the benefits of grassroots ideas and recommendations that came forward during our public consultations, my officials will now be able to work closely with Mr. Kakfwi's department to create a new Liquor Act.

If all continues to go well, we anticipate developing a bill for introduction to the 13th Legislative Assembly as soon as possible, following the fall 1995 territorial election. The public will have an opportunity to comment on the bill at that time. As well, I want to inform the House that we will be following up on some of the other public recommendations outlined in the earlier legislative action paper, as well as on the comments made by the Standing Committee on Legislation during its recent review.

For instance, it became clear over the course of the liquor law review that we need to do more to promote responsible decision-making about liquor. We are entering into negotiations with some of the manufacturers to explore new public awareness strategies. The legislative action paper stresses that the ongoing evaluation of the impact of liquor is essential and we are now working with other areas of government to establish systems that will enable us to examine the health correlations and other outcomes of our liquor policy.

At public meetings and at standing committee hearings, we heard about the importance of strengthening our approach to enforcement and, as the honourable Member for Thebacha pointed out yesterday, we have now undertaken a review of our inspection program that will be completed concurrently with the development of the new Liquor Act. Both the Standing Committee on Legislation and, earlier, the Special Committee on Health and Social Services have made recommendations about the need to empower communities with local measures for controlling liquor. We are in the process of exploring legislative mechanisms and community transfer possibilities that will do just that.

Before closing, Mr. Chairman, I want to acknowledge the many people who participated in the public consultation process that led to the formulation of the department's legislative action paper. We've heard from people from all segments of northern society, people of all ages and from all regions. We heard from aboriginal organizations -- the Dene Nation, the Deh Cho Tribal Council, the Kitikmeot Regional Council and others -- and from groups like the Status of Women Council, the Registered Nurses' Association and more.

We have heard from the bar owners and people in the hospitality business, from RCMP detachments, from representatives of large liquor manufacturers who came up from the south, from the insurance industry and from university experts. We heard from individuals who have been active in working to address community concerns about alcohol, people like Buck Storr from Aklavik, Chief Gerry Paulette from Fort Smith, Madeline Qumuatuq from Iqaluit, Thelma Tees from Yellowknife, Woody Elias and Charlie Snowshoe of Fort McPherson, John Campbell and many, many more too numerous to mention.

But we also heard from northerners who don't usually get involved in this kind of exercise, folks who just had an idea or two about how liquor control can be improved in the Northwest Territories. These are the people who turned out at public meetings, sent in survey responses, or took the time to send us a letter or give us a phone call. I believe the entire liquor law review process has been strengthened enormously by their input.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to say that I'm enthusiastic about moving to the next stages of this process, and I would again like to thank my honourable colleagues for their comments, advice and their input over the past three days.

Mr. Chairman, it would be remiss of me to conclude these discussions by not acknowledging the work of the deputy minister and the staff of the Department of Safety and Public Services. And, more importantly, I want to acknowledge one individual who has accepted the responsibility for this review for approximately two years now, a man by the name of Alan Downe.

---Applause

I want to acknowledge, Mr. Chairman, through you and the chairman of the Standing Committee on Legislation, the work of the staff of this Assembly and the staff of the committee, especially those translators who have had to do a lot of work on our part. I want to thank you for the input and support you have given us. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

---Applause

The Chair Brian Lewis

On that happy note, do Members feel this is now concluded?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay, that item can be taken off of the paper tomorrow, then. We will go on to the next item suggested by the committee, Committee Report 9-12(7), Report on the Review of the Financial Statements of the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Report of the Auditor General for Canada for the Fiscal Year Ended March 31, 1994. Mr. Zoe.

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Earlier this year, the Auditor General for Canada, Mr. Denis Desautels, forwarded his Report of the Auditor General to the Legislative Assembly for the year ended March 31, 1994 to the Speaker, the Honourable Sam Gargan.

This document, Mr. Chairman, along with the Public Accounts 1993-94, Volumes I and II, became the focal point of two days of public hearings in early May of this year, and one day of follow-up work at the end of the month.

Mr. Chairman, the Auditor General's report is divided into seven chapters: chapter 1 deals with matters of special importance and interest; chapter 2 deals with financial statement issues; chapter 3 deals with compliance with authority issues; chapter 4, audit observations; chapter 5, student financial assistance; chapter 6, municipal loans; and finally, chapter 7, deals with the issue of hidden subsidies.

Our committee presented its report on Tuesday, Mr. Chairman, and I believe Members had an opportunity to review it. We have three recommendations in the report but before I deal specifically with the recommendations, maybe I can go back to you, Mr. Chairman, to hear from other Members who may have comments on the report.

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Zoe, the committee report was read into the record on Tuesday. If Members still have general comments or something they wish to contribute, now is the time. It seems that we have had ample opportunity, Mr. Zoe, to discuss your report so maybe we can deal with your recommendations. Do you want to say something, Mr. Koe? Okay, sorry, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Koe.

General Comments

Fred Koe Inuvik

I just have a few comments on the items that were raised in the report, a couple questions come up. In terms of the follow-up on previous years' recommendations, there was a recommendation on the forensic audit capabilities. In previous sessions, I raised questions about the frauds that were occurring in government and the need to control that. I would like to ask a question which should be addressed to the Minister of Finance, but I'm not sure who can answer this. Currently, what has been done in terms of trying to control and defy fraud attempts in the government?

The Chair Brian Lewis

Carry on, Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

The audit process would find out about fraud after it has happened. I am more curious on the prevention of fraud. That is the area I would like to focus on.

The Chair Brian Lewis

We are discussing the report. Mr. Pollard, do you want to respond?

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over the last year and a half, we have been offering workshops to departments and to various regions, discussing with them how important it is to have a paper trail and to have correct accounting procedures, particularly when they are dealing with cash and that has been fairly well attended by most of the departments. I must say the departments that have recently been clipped are probably the first through the door and that is the kind of preventative sessions that we have been having with departments. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

The area of video conferencing technology is another area that is of interest. I note in the committee report, the last sentence of page 5 of 16, states that if benefits and costs warrant, the government should continue to pursue NorthwesTel regarding the implementation of technology in additional northern sectors. I assume that is technology to do with video conferencing. The comment I want to make is NorthwesTel is not the only company that is capable of doing these things. There are many companies that provide this type of information and technology, as we know, changes quite rapidly, almost daily. There are other companies that are able to provide maybe more updated types of technology. I am just wondering why NorthwesTel is the only one specified in this report.

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Zoe, it is your report.

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the video conferencing technology issue, the government has been adhering to our recommendation from the previous year. They gave us an update on what they are currently doing and what they are planning to do in the future. It was stated to our committee that the government was dealing specifically with one particular company, which was NorthwesTel. Currently, they are the only ones who are providing these services in Yellowknife and Iqaluit. That was the information provided to us by the government representatives that appeared before our committee.

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

I just want to make it clear that we can't limit our options to only one company. They are a major provider of services in terms of telephone and computer linkages in the Northwest Territories. We can't limit our options to only one company. With expanding technological devices that keep coming onto the market, we have to keep our options open and there may be cheaper options. I just want to make that comment.

The next area is the area of environmental liability. Again, this is a new and emerging field that we have to be very cautious and conscious of because our north is a pristine country, as we know, and we wish to keep it that way. We want to keep it clean of contaminants on the ground, in the water and in the air. There are high costs associated with this. Those who live in Yellowknife all know this because of the testing that has been going on with the mines. It is a very costly and new field that businesses and government is entering into.

The aboriginal groups are also getting into this business, especially the Inuvialuit and the Nunasi Corporation in terms of DEW Line clean-ups. It is a new area and the issue that I wish to address is the GNWT Environmental Committee that has been set up and is referred to in the report. Who is on this committee and are they including people who are in the business of cleaning up and working with the environment, for example, the aboriginal companies? Are they part of this?

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. I don't know if there is anyone in the House who can answer that question in terms of who is responsible for things in the environment area. If anyone wants to take a stab at it, that is fine. Do you want to try, Mr. Pollard?

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, yes, a committee has been formed. It has not, as the report says, developed its terms of reference, or it had not at this particular time. I will get the names of the people who are on that committee and provide it to the House post-haste, Mr. Chairman.

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

The next area is on financial reporting. The committee made some lengthy remarks in this area, but I am curious that it takes such a long time to respond to recommendations made. On page 7 of 16, the area that is highlighted took eight years once recommendations were made. Yet, disclosures still hadn't been made. I know that changing the system and upgrading the system is costly. On page 8, information technology, it states that our financial information is 12 years old and becoming obsolete. Anyone who is in the financial business knows that timely and accurate information is required to make good management decisions. So I am very pleased that the auditor and the committee addressed these items.

It has to be looked at and the issue of the informatics strategy was one of the items that was mentioned in the Premier's address to the Legislature and it was raised in question period several times. I think it has been two years since we have heard what the status on this is, and that was supposed to be the catch-all strategy and the new information technology in this government. So even that's taking two years to develop, and I am sure if we ever get the strategy developed it will be outdated and obsolete.

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

The other area that the committee highlighted was the vote 4 and 5 projects. Again, a lot of our projects, especially the official languages, our monies under the Official Languages Act, fall into this category, and monies for housing that we get from the government fall into this category. When we are dealing with our budgets, our O and M budget in particular, there are always blank spaces, and we are always waiting until negotiations take place. It's always nice, I guess, to have information when we are dealing with a particular department.

One question I would like to ask, especially in the area of official languages -- I know there's supposed to be a lot of consultation with official languages groups, and I also know that there have been considerable cutbacks in the amounts of money that we are getting under vote 4 -- is ongoing consultation with the recipient groups in terms of how money is allocated for the particular areas and projects?