Good afternoon, Members. Orders of the day, Minister's Statements. Mr. Dent.

Thank

you, Mr. Dent. Ministers' statements. Ms. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On Monday, September 30, I had the privilege of attending the opening of the new fire hall in Fort Providence along with the Honourable Sam Gargan. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the community for their warm hospitality throughout my visit. I would also like to recognize the hard work of the teachers and parents. I say this because I was very impressed by the behaviour of the students who attended the ceremony. We did not even need microphones to speak because they were so well- behaved. As an educator, I know that children learn to behave best when teachers and parents work together.

At the opening, Chief Jimmy Thom recognized all the members of the community who worked together to make the project work. Mr. Speaker, we can learn from this project because it is an excellent example of community empowerment. The fire hall was built by local contractors with local labour. The building was enhanced through local funding. The Hamlet and the Band cooperated throughout the planning and construction of the building.

I was also fortunate to attend the naming of the joint Hamlet and Band office. Mr. Speaker, as you know, the office was named after Chief Paul Lafoin. Chief Lafoin was the Chief in Providence when Treaty negotiations occurred in the 1920's. He had a vision that his people would work together to make a safe and better world for future generations and that they would take control of their future. Mr. Speaker that is community empowerment!

In closing Mr. Speaker, I was very impressed by your community. It can stand as a model for communities throughout Canada.

Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you Ms. Thompson. Ministers' Statements, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, contaminants are an issue for use as a society. Not only whales and fish accumulate contaminants, people do as well.

The Department of Health and Social Services, in collaboration with regional health agencies, has actively participated in the federal government's Northern Contaminants Program for the Arctic Environmental Strategy since 1990.

A main focus of this activity has been to develop a baseline level of specific contaminants in the blood of mothers and their newborns, since babies may be particularly sensitive to these environmental pollutants.

This work will be completed in March 1997 for the Mackenzie, Kitikmeot, Keewatin and Baffin regions and will result in advice on how people, particularly females through childbearing years, may have to reduce their consumption of some foods like beluga and narwhal blubber.

These environmental pollutants are industrial chemicals such as PCBs, and pesticides such as DDT and toxaphene, that move into the circumpolar north in wind and water currents from elsewhere in the world.

They are long-lasting chemicals that dissolve in fat and are found in higher concentrations in marine mammal blubber because marine mammals are at the top of the food chain in the Arctic Ocean.

Results from work completed to date in the Mackenzie and Kitikmeot regions confirms that people in the North, like elsewhere, are carrying these contaminants in their bodies.

In cord blood monitoring for the Kitikmeot, 40 percent of participants had blood levels of PCBs that exceed the acceptable level according to Health Canada. In the Mackenzie, that number was 2 per cent.

Mr. Speaker, I want to assure you that even at these levels, no one is in danger.

This cord blood monitoring project includes a sample that reflects the larger population. When acceptable limits are set, it is to protect everybody and has variable meaning on an individual basis.

This is the first monitoring project in the North to give results back to the participants. Work is now under way in the Baffin and Keewatin to get a better focus on the issue.

Mr. Speaker, resources must be focused on identifying health effects from these contaminants in the very near future.

Funding for the Arctic Environmental Strategy is running out in March 1997. The federal government has assured us that DIAND is currently seeking funding to continue the Northern Contaminants Program. To date, a funding level has not been confirmed.

This will provide Northerners with appropriate information so that we can all make informed decisions about our diet.

There are many nutritional, economic and cultural benefits from a traditional diet that includes marine mammal blubber, and these are very important to remember.

The results of the cord blood monitoring study in the Kitikmeot and Mackenzie regions remind us that there is a lot more to be learned about this complex issue and that ongoing federal funding will be required.

Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to arrange a briefing for any Members who want more information on this vital issue.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi will be absent from the House today, Tuesday and Wednesday to:

- meet with the Honourable Ronald Irwin regarding BHP in Ottawa;

- attend the funeral of the former Premier of Quebec, Mr. Robert Bourassa, on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories; and,

- attend the Arctic Contaminants Conference in Iqaluit.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Item 3. Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on October 1, 1996, I had the privilege of attending the Kitikmeot's Leaders' Forum in Cambridge Bay.

Many of the important issues, or at least to the Kitikmeot Region, were brought at that meeting, and one of the concerns of the Kitikmeot leadership and from the Kitikmeot Health Board was the capacity of Lena Peterson, better known as Kitikmeot Boarding Home, to hold patients from the Kitikmeot Region.

Mr. Speaker, I have the information here, given to us by the Kitikmeot Health Board representative, that in January the occupancy level was about 88 percent; February, 85; March, slightly lower than 80; in April, we have 80 percent; May we have 85 percent occupancy level; June, 85; July, about 90; and August, a little bit below 80 percent. The average here, Mr. Speaker, is about 85 percent occupancy level by the Kitikmeot people staying at the Kitikmeot Boarding Home.

A number of patients, Mr. Speaker, from the Kitikmeot area have to be referred to the Rainbow Valley Boarding Home. On behalf of the people of Kitikmeot Region, I would like to thank the management of the Rainbow Valley Boarding Home. We also have a non-Kitikmeot patient occupancy level at around 20 percent overall.

Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be asking the government if it has any plan to expand the Kitikmeot Boarding Home.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Members' statements. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Baffin Regional Hospital was opened in 1962 to serve the Town of Iqaluit and the Baffin Region. In this 34 year period, the facility has remained essentially unchanged since its opening. In this same 34 year period, Mr. Speaker, the population has more than doubled in the region it has to serve. All public health functions had to be located in a separate building because there was no space in the hospital. All material management functions are also located away from the facility in a converted, double-wide trailer. This is not acceptable. As part of the 1988 Health Transfer Agreement, a cost-sharing arrangement for the replacement of the existing facility with the federal government was signed. The replacement of the Baffin Regional Hospital will be cost-shared by the territorial government and the federal government. The catchment area of the Baffin Regional Hospital is 85 percent Inuk, plus the federal government will cost-share 85 percent of this total cost. The Inuvik Hospital was also included in the original Health Transfer Agreement with similar terms and references as the Baffin Regional Hospital, the major difference being the lower cost-shared amount because of the lower Aboriginal catchment population.

In the original agreement, an annual base of $1,000,000 was contributed to the cost of replacing the hospitals. Based on the annual base and the PL escalator, the total contribution from the federal government to the territorial government would be $9,297,000.

Mr. Speaker, over the past year, two meetings with myself and the chair of the Baffin Regional Health Board and the federal Health Minister, Mr. Dingwall, were cancelled by me because of information that these projects, the Baffin and Inuvik, were moving ahead. Recent information indicates this may not be the case. I will be questioning the territorial Minister of Health today on this matter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On Friday of last week I informed the house of the sealift emergency in Grise Fiord, Canada's most northern community. At that time, the Premier stated that the government would do everything possible to make sure our communities have adequate supplies for the long winter ahead. I welcome the Premier's statement and thank him for his support.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise the Premier that I have been in touch with both the municipality of Grise Fiord and Arctic Co-operatives in Winnipeg to get the latest information on the situation. I will be raising some oral questions later today in order to clarify what will be done and which departments will be providing the urgently needed assistance. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in the past few weeks we have been hearing from ministers and deputy ministers about the possible amalgamation of Public Works and Services, the Housing Corporation and Transportation. To date, ordinary Members have not received any details about what is planned. It is crucial that all Members of this Legislature have a chance to talk about this proposal before anything is actually set in place.

We need to consider this as a whole Legislature before we decide whether this is a good plan. We need to look at it carefully. Mr. Speaker, we need to see a plan, a blue print that lays out the amalgamation proposal. It needs to show us the implications to programs and services. It needs to show the impact on staff. More importantly, it needs to clearly show how the amalgamation will result in a more efficient department. As a caucus, we would recommend that a discussion paper on the amalgamation of Public Works and Services, the Housing Corporation and Transportation be tabled in the House during this session. This would allow all Members to comment on the plan and would give the public a clear picture on the wheres and whys of this amalgamation.

Mr. Speaker, later today I will be following up with the Premier on the involvement of all Members in discussing this amalgamation proposal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is on the BHP Project and the Impact Benefit Agreements with the land owners, the Aboriginal people, in this area. As you all know, some time ago the federal government indicated that they would approve the development permits for BHP if there was substantial movement on Impact Benefit Agreements. Talking to the Aboriginal leadership, I understand that there is not very much being offered, Mr. Speaker. The BHP people stand to make in the order of $300-500 million per year and perhaps a lot more. The governments, federal and territorial, stand to make $100 million a year. The Aboriginal governments will be making peanuts or will receive basically peanuts in relation to this.

The people have been working hard to try to achieve some sort of an agreement, but what they are being offered, Mr. Speaker, they cannot sell to the people. This is more than one group that I have talked to. Mr. Speaker, I believe that the federal government cannot subjectively say there has been substantial movement just because the two sides are at the table.

I also believe it is the responsibility of this particular government to ensure that IBAs are fair and equitable. I believe if there is no agreement soon then this government should press the federal government to give a few more days, a couple of months or whatever is needed so they can work out some agreement without the Minister interceding and saying yes that is it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Members' statements. Are there further Members' statements? Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Members' statements. Item 4. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an Oral Question asked by Mr. Krutko on October 2, with respect to status of funding from the Tl'oondih Healing Society. The director of Community Health Programs and the addictions consultant met with the Chairperson of the Gwich'in Healing Society August 15, 1996. The results from these discussions were that the department had agreed to fund the Tl'oondih Healing Society, at a level of $300,000 for the 96/97 fiscal year. Departmental representatives also advised the chairperson that clients who met specific criteria could be funded under the Extended Health Care Benefits Program. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the gallery is a constituent from Kugluktuk, Donna Satenia, who is a high school teacher. She is also the regional president of the NWT Teachers' Association and a member of their negotiating team. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the

gallery. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Mr. Charlie Manning. Mr. Manning is a two term mayor of Cape Dorset who negotiated one of the better known community transfer deals, and now runs my constituency office in Cape Dorset.

--Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize Aaron Blair who is also a member of the NWTTA Executive and a member of their bargaining team, and is a resident of Iqaluit.

-- Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Krutko.

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said in my Member's statement, my first question is for the Minister of Health. What is the status of the hospitals for the Inuvik and the Baffin regions? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the status is that negotiations between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the federal government continue to finalize a financial arrangement in respect to financing both hospitals in Inuvik and Iqaluit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Oral questions. Supplementary. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Baffin Hospital has the highest occupancy rate in the Northwest Territories and has not been improved since 1962. Does the Minister have any indication when these negotiations, which have been going on since 1987/88, will be finally concluded? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the negotiations for the financing of these two hospital projects have not been going on since 1987/88. It has been as of the last year that they have been going on. I am expecting that we can wrap up, hopefully, an interim agreement within the next few months and proceed from there Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I stand corrected. Can the Minister inform this House how much money has been transferred to the territorial government since 1987/88, and the original MOU by the federal government since the original transfer agreement was signed for the Baffin and Inuvik hospitals, including the PL escalator?

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there has been approximately $8 million transferred, and it works out to approximately $11 million with the PL escalator to date, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Oral questions. Final supplementary. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, is this $8 million that was transferred from the federal government to the Territorial government available and ready to be used for the construction of said hospitals? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, no. As I have indicated to this House before, the money has gone into the General Consolidated Revenue Fund of the Government of the Northwest Territories and remains in there.

Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated earlier in my Member's statement regarding the capacity of the Kitikmeot Boarding Home to fulfil the demand from the region, I also indicated the occupancy is about 85% throughout the year. Over and above that, some patients are referred to the Kitikmeot Rainbow Valley Boarding Home. Over and above that also, we get non-Kitikmeot patients staying at the Kitikmeot Boarding Home. Mr. Chairman, I think that in itself justified the demand from the Kitikmeot leadership. My question is to the Honourable Minister of Health and Social Services. Does the Minister have any plan in the near future to expand the capacity of the Kitikmeot Boarding Home? Thank you.

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have not had any requests from the Kitikmeot Health Board at this stage to look at expanding the facilities, so I can say no, at this time, I am unaware of any plans to facilitate any expansion, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Given the statistics that I provided to the Minister, will the Honourable Minister seriously look at the possibility of expanding the Kitikmeot Boarding Home? Thank you.

Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I recognize it is a heavily utilized facility; however, I would have to wait and see exactly what kind of statistics are confirmed and whether or not the people of Kitikmeot, through their health board, request any expansion. But, at the same time, Mr. Speaker, I would like to advise the Honourable Member that we are in limited financial means and it would have to be fully justified as a long- term cost effective way of dealing with our health issues before we finalize any plans to expand these facilities. Mr. Speaker, thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the same Honourable Minister. The statistic I provided to the Honourable Minister is we have about 85 per cent average usage of the government boarding home. We have about 20 per cent non-Kitikmeot patients staying at the Kitikmeot Boarding Home. Over and above that, some patients from Kitikmeot are referred to the Rainbow Valley Boarding Home. I thank the Rainbow Valley Boarding Home for providing the services. Mr. Speaker, will the Honourable Minister now communicate with the Kitikmeot Health Board? Thank you.

Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have no hesitancy in contacting the Kitikmeot Health Board to try to discuss with them the options and see if there are any problems and try to work out a solution that would be acceptable to

everybody.

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Barnabas.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Health a question. I would like to know if the Baffin Regional Hospital will be finished on the date it was supposed to be?

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I cannot give a date on when I would expect the health facility in Iqaluit, or in Inuvik for that matter, to be completed. I mean, it will depend largely upon finalizing the financing agreement with the federal government and secondly, and more importantly, finding the financial means within our government to proceed with these major capital projects, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Barnabas.

I would like to ask another question to the Minister of Health. Can the Minister table an agreement that was signed to build the hospital in Inuvik and Baffin Regional Hospital?

Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would say that I will check to see if we could do that and if that were the case, I would. Otherwise I would be willing to let the Honourable Member see what agreement is in place, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Barnabas.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Picco had stated earlier that $8 million had been set aside for the hospital in the Inuvik and Baffin Region. I would like to have this reviewed. Can you state exactly where this money will be used, particularly to the construction of those hospitals. Thank you.

Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated before, there have been pre-payments from the federal government that have been paid to the Government of the Northwest Territories. The funds have been put into the General Consolidated Revenue Fund of this government and consumed in addressing the program needs of this government. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you. Again just to remind the Members, when you are addressing the Ministers you can use the term the Honourable Minister but not the Right Honourable, which is only a title referred to when you address the Prime Minister, or former Prime Ministers for that matter. Mr. Ng, Minister of Health and Social Services.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once again I would like to congratulate the Tl'oondih and the Gwich'in for establishing the Tl'oondih treatment facility. I have stated in the past in this House that, unfortunately, it is not one of the healing centres or alcohol and drug treatment centres that has been financed by this government-rightly or wrongly. Our focus has been to try to support the institutions that we have financed at 100 per cent. Having said that Mr. Speaker, I think we have gone out of our way to try and assist the Tl'oondih camp in trying to support them in their initiatives which we feel are very beneficial. But one of the problems we have, Mr. Speaker, is the fact that we are trying to move away from core funding of all facilities. We are trying to move towards a per diem to make them more effective and make them more competitive in trying to establish a program so that individuals can feel that they are getting value for dollar. Providing core funding to Tl'oondih at this time would be contrary to our initiatives in trying to move away from core funding towards a per diem type financing Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated

just previously, Tl'oondih is not a facility that was established by this government, so the fact of us core funding them to compete with our own facilities would be detrimental. And I think because of the fact we are moving away from core funding, that at this time it would not be warranted to try to work on an arrangement in that area, Mr. Speaker.

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko, supplementary.

What was your question then, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you. Just for clarification, the question is difficult to respond to because the Minister does not know what would happen to 30 people that are being laid off.

It is hypothetical, but I would like to ask the Minister if he would like to respond since a portion of the funding is coming from his department.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker I would say it would be a regrettable situation and I would sympathize with the employees. Unfortunately I do not know what the cost would be to this government at this time or layoff of 30 people from the Tl'oondih operations, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko

Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not prepared to look at the specific issue of the Tl'oondih funding at this time. However, I would qualify that by saying that we are, in our business plan, coming forward to the House, at a later date, looking at the whole area of alcohol and drug treatment programs throughout the Northwest Territories and how they are funded. I think there will be some drastic changes in the way that these facilities are funded in the future, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for POL. I would like to know the present status regarding privatizing POL. Thank you.

Thank you. The Minister responsible for Public Works and Services, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Mr. Speaker, as the House will recall, the Cabinet requested Public Works and Services to start the process of privatization of our petroleum products division. The Department, along with the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development issued an Expressions of Interest advertisement this summer.

The responses to those advertisements are being analyzed right now, along with a number of studies, and we are awaiting the results.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure if it is appropriate to ask this question now or not. The Minister can advise me.

There have been a number of comments and concerns regarding price control. How do you expect or plan to deal with this as far as the price will raise to the point where it will be unacceptable for the average resident? Thank you.

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Mr. Speaker, the issue of price regulation was one identified by the Cabinet as a concern immediately, and we had a study started. That review has been done and is being analyzed right now.

The options for price regulation, whether it is a public utilities-type operation or others, will be given to Cabinet, I believe before Christmas, and Cabinet will make a decision then.

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Roland.

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, subsequent to the transfer of Health to the Government of the Northwest Territories from the federal government, there was an amendment made, to my understanding, to the transfer agreement that allowed for a new replacement facility for Iqaluit, Mr. Speaker.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland.

Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I had indicated to a previous question, I would certainly be able to let the honourable Members that were interested in looking at this agreement have that opportunity, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger.

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is always difficult when we talk about fairness and equity in a time when are working through restraint and in fact we are cutting rather than adding.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Todd.

Well, let me say that it would be fair to say that we have done an analysis of where the cuts have taken in the first round, in this last year. Remember we took over $100,000,000 out of the system this last year and we are going to take about another $100,000,000 plus this coming year. I think it is important to say that to the public so they can all hear it. We are trying to do it in a fair and reasonable way, and it is a very difficult task, particularly with this Assembly since 1968, it has never had to do this kind of exercise. We have never had to take or reduce the kinds of expectations that the public has the way in which we are doing it now. I think that is the first thing in terms of general comment.

The second thing is it has been fairly clear based upon the discussions we have had with standing committees, and as I say the recent debates, that we must carefully examine where we next look towards these cuts. If you remember that we did negotiate between the ordinary Members and ourselves, a two year approach to it so they get both education, health, etc., two years to make the right moves and to manage if you want, a way out of this difficult situation. And I think that is what we are endeavouring to do, and we are very much aware of where the cuts came last round. It is clear. I have it on my desk. And we intend to ensure that there will be a continuation of expanding the cuts to everybody across the framework to ensure that there is not one particular group, or one particular community that is penalized more than another. With respect to the further deficit reduction strategy that we are moving on in these final 12 months of excruciating pain. Thank you.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.