This is page numbers 13 - 35 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was employees.

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Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 33

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have feelings that reflect what Mr. Enuaraq just said, because I have basically the same type of comments or, you could say, misunderstandings in my region.

I still get calls at home when people have problems in the community because they think I am the mayor because I ran against the guy that was the mayor. I have also been asked, why is Jack Anawak still there when I'm supposed to be in Ottawa, so people are really confused as to just what I was elected to do.

Therefore, the salary concerns are basically in the same category. They really don't know and I don't think they are really that concerned about how much a person gets to be an MLA, provided you supply a reasonable and a good service to them. They expect that. I think the whole catch to the MLA salaries situation is that people are wondering whether or not you get more than what you're worth, and 1, like Tommy, don't have that problem. Mind you, when I arrived as an MLA, I did not know any more than, I suppose, Mr. Erasmus just what the salary was, because it seemed to depend on how many committee meetings you attended. There was a base salary suggested of $40,000, but all that information did not become available to me until after you got elected. So I didn't run for this seat for the money; that's for sure. I think, like many other people, regular MLAs and Ministers, we'll probably give up more than we're getting now.

The other comment I want to make is in regards to pensions. At the time I arrived as an MLA, even after I became an MLA, I was still not aware that there was a pension. I heard a lot of talk about a pension but I was not familiar with it, how it worked or when we got it. Now that I know how a person becomes eligible for a pension, under the existing system, it doesn't seem realistic or fair to a person who has been an MLA for only four years that all you get back is the money you put in. In other words, you have to win for two terms in order to be eligible for a pension. We were told that all you get back is what you put in. So, therefore, under the existing system, the pension is of no concern to me because I probably won't be eligible for it. In particular, after the way we've been eliminating many of our voters by eliminating positions, we have to do something now to justify the positions we cut in the government system. It's almost like justifying what we do rather than the other way around.

I have no problem personally with elimination of pensions or structuring it in such a way that it's more acceptable or more comparable to something like the Canada Superannuation Plan or retirement savings plan or whatever. I could live with that type of thing. I think the pension we have is a bit extravagant, to say the least.

But I do have a problem with reducing the salaries even though we reduce the salaries and benefits of the workers of this government. I would possibly consider a salary equivalent to what we were receiving in the past but do away with the pension section. I have no problem with that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 33

The Chair Roy Erasmus

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. O'Brien, general comments.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 33

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you. Just a few brief comments with regard to my feelings on the package. In general, I applaud the committee who reviewed the MLA package, although I do feel that they've gone beyond the call of duty.

Needless to say, I agree that the pension package is too rich and that it should be modified downward but certainly not thrown out.

I am also concerned about the massive changes and negative cuts in general to the MLAs' salaries and benefits packages. I don't believe that we should be treated any more special than the average worker, but by the same token, I don't think we should be treated lesser either.

In general, I think that the package certainly needs a lot more study and will probably require more time than what we have to analyze it.

Those are all the comments I have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 33

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments from the Members. Mr. Evaloarjuk. Qujannamiik.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 33

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regards to the compensation package, I don't have very many comments on it.

But, as we have workers to help us out, to make decisions for us and to do research for us, I do not think we should blame them, because, if we tried to make our own compensation package, it would seem like we want to make more money rather than do our jobs. The usual complaint is for that reason.

I have no real concrete concerns with regard to the study. But, for the pension plan, there are many names in Inuktitut for it. I think I would like to have some comment on anyone who wants to contribute to a compensation pension package should have the choice as to how much they want to contribute to it. I think I saw in here, maybe about nine per cent of their pay. I think a person should be able to buy their own retirement savings plan. They should have the leverage to make their own decisions on what amount they want to contribute for the pension plan.

That's all I have to say. I think that we don't need to make such long considerations on this package, and if people want to point this out and hold us responsible for it, then they will. Thank you.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Ootes.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, would like to support the Premier's statement. I think that we need change to the compensation package. For some of us, this was an election issue. In my situation, my constituents were quite concerned about the pensions. the accountability of expenses and the salaries.

I made a presentation before the commission and spoke about those areas; about the confusion in the system at the moment that exists for us to get salaries. There were 13 different levels. Certainly, this commission's report takes a lot of the confusion out of that. The commission made 43 recommendations. They dealt with various areas. For instance, one was salary levels. I would just like to mention that the salary level recommended is that of a senior teacher or a middle management person. I think that may put it into perspective for the public as to what the recommendation is. It dealt with pensions, accountability of expenses, allowances and took the confusion out of the system.

I feel that it was a comprehensive report and had some very valuable recommendations in it. It should result in a cost savings to this government and I think the cost savings will be substantial once we have decided on the recommendations. For example, in the pension area alone, if we were to equate and adopt the recommendation, that means that we drop 30 per cent of our income.

When we set up the commission, we all agreed -- and I think we all still agree -- that we want to contribute to the deficit reduction. We want to make changes and we want to show leadership and lead by example. I am confident that we will all do that. My expectation is that we will resolve the recommendations and do so before we leave this House next week. I am determined on that. I think we can have an open and good discussion, so that the public will see where we are heading with all these recommendations.

As I said earlier, this will result in substantial savings. We heard some comments by the Minister of Finance today about reductions we are making in the public service and they are necessary because of the problems we are having with the money and the revenues in this government.

I also want to express some other comments. I recognize that some Members have concerns about a number of the areas of this report. I think they are very legitimate. For instance, the travel allowances and living allowances. While I am in support of many of the areas, I do have some concerns for those who are not resident in Yellowknife because it affects those people who have to travel and have accommodation here. Over the next few days, we will be able to resolve these issues and discuss them in more detail. I would like to congratulate the commission for their report.

I look forward to resolving the recommendations. Thank you.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien, do you want to recognize people?

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It isn't often that I get ... (Microphone turned off).

--- Interjection

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

I would like to recognize the deputy mayor of Baker Lake, Peter Tapatai and the assistance deputy mayor, Frank Tootoo, for joining us again today in the Assembly.

--- Applause

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Barnabas.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I would like to recognize the week that we have to speak our language and recognize our native language. I have no real concerns on the changes in the compensation package for the MLAs, nor on the pension plan. I have one concern. Regarding the constituency allowance, mine was lowered by $8,000. 1 realize when I was campaigning, people in my constituency said that we don't visit them often enough and we don't make them aware of what is happening to the work that we are doing. That is the only concern I wanted to express, Mr. Chairman.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 20th, 1996

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some of the Members had spoken of the commission's recommendations with respect to constituency work expenses and they felt that the recommendations on that were outside of the mandate of commission. In fairness to the commission, I just wanted to read item six, that was in the terms of reference that were given to the commission. It is: "Develop a statement of purpose for the constituency work expense allowances, including recommending permissible spending criteria and to express an opinion on the adequacy of the current levels of these allowances." I understand the concern of the Members who don't agree with the recommendations, but I think it would be incorrect to say that that was outside of their mandate to make those recommendations. Thank you.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We are considering the general nature of the document. Are there any further general comments? Mr. Miltenberger.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was going to suggest if there are no further comments, we report progress for today on this item.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

The Chair John Ningark

There is a motion on the floor to report progress. Do you move that we report progress, Mr. Miltenberger?

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 34

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

There is a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion to report progress? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

--- Carried

I will rise and report progress to the Speaker. Thank you.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 35

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. Item 20, report of Committee of the Whole. Mr. Ningark.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 1-13(3) and would like to report progress and, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Is there a seconder? Mr. Picco. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 35

An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, item 22, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 35

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, the Caucus briefing has been changed from 6:00 to 5:00 p.m. this evening.

Orders of the day for Friday, March 22nd:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address.

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 1, Interim Appropriation Act, April 1 to June 30, 1996

- Bill 2, Write-off of Debts Act, 1995-96

- Bill 3, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 1995-96

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 1-13(3), Report of Commission on MLA Compensation

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day