Debates of May 21st, 1996

This is page numbers 495 - 535 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present
Item 1: Prayer
Renewable Energy Technology Workshop
Block Funding Agreement Fort Smith
Premier's Panel On The Economy And Employment
Interaction Between Messrs. Picco And Todd
Duke Of Edinburgh Award
Accident On Highway 3 Taking Life Of Gerry Kodzin
Fas/fae Conference In Seattle, Washington
Inaccurate Birth Records Impeding Access To Old-age Pension Benefits
Tribute To Mrs. Mary Vittrekwa
Diamond Jenness Secondary School Graduation
Passing Of Two Elders From Arviat
Nanisivik Mine Socio-economic Development Agreement
Stanton Regional Hospital's Haemodialysis Clinic
Difficulties Receiving Social Assistance At Yellowknife Women's Centre
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Status Of Honorarium For Panel On The Economy And Employment
Question 270-1313): Status Of Economic Benefits Agreements With Mining Companies
Taloyoak Resident Not Receiving Old Age Pension
Funding For Beaufort/delta Legal Services Clinic
Update On Iqaluit Generator Difficulties
Responsibility For Maintenance On Ingraham Trail
Possibility Of Public Service Strike
Statistics On Legal Services Clinics
GNWT Representative At Negotiations With Nanisivik Mines
Availability Of Housing For GNWT Staff
Report On Meeting Of Premier's Panel
Responsibility For Pelly Bay Airport Project
Process For Replacement Of Supreme Court Justice
Sale Of Staff Housing To GNWT Employees
Written Question 6-13(3): Nanisivik Mine Training And Employment Agreement
Item 10: Petitions
Removal And Recovery Of Consumer Price Index Increase To Members' Allowances And Expenses
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society
Priority Hospital Facilities In Inuvik And Iqaluit
Committee Report 2-13(3): Standing Committee On Infrastructure Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Committee Report 4-13(3): Standing Committee On Social Programs Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 516

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just want to state for the record, with respect to alcohol and drug treatment southern referrals for non-medical referrals, the 1994-95 referrals totalled 282. In the 1995-96 year, that dropped down to under 50, since we've tried to keep our clientele in the Northwest Territories, to be treated by the alcohol and drug treatment centres that we have here.

With respect to the medical referrals that have to be sent down south right now because we don't have insured facilities that have medical capabilities to provide some of the treatment that's required; in 1994-95, we spent approximately $698,000. In 1995-96, that dropped down to approximately $500,000. That's for the medical insured services, Mr. Chairman.

With respect to continuing to work at repatriating or providing more of the services in the North, we are continuing to do that. As I had indicated earlier, our department officials are planning on meeting with the Medical Association. There have been some preliminary discussions between the NWT Medical Association and some of the treatment centre operators to try and resolve some of the differences that would allow for referrals of clients to our northern facilities from the medical profession. That would open up a whole new avenue of funding for our treatment centres.

We're streamlining the referral policy for our clientele, again, in conjunction with the treatment centre operators, of which the Tl'oondih operators are also a part. There is a major meeting planned at the Tl'oondih Healing Camp next month, I believe, with all the treatment centre operators and our department officials, to discuss some of the initiatives that started off last month with respect to the new referral process, trying to establish some of the marketing strategy of the treatment centres, to try not to compete with each other and to provide alternative types of service, to make the physicians more aware of their services and the public, as well. They are also going to discuss some of the accreditation and insured facilities problems or issues that prohibit some of them now from receiving clients.

There is a lot of discussion and a lot of movement being made in trying to shore up all treatment centres that we have in the Northwest Territories to try to provide some additional support through opening up the avenues for their clientele and with that, the funding sources, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Henry.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have one question. The Minister alluded to amounts of money that were being spent in the South and you had suggested, I believe, in 1995-96, you had spent $500,000. I would like a clear, definitive answer; you had alluded to it slightly. Are the services that you are sending people south for, are they available in the Territories? Or this is strictly services that are not available in the Northwest Territories?

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it's my understanding that these services aren't available in the Northwest Territories treatment centres now. Primarily because of the medical component that's required, because of some of the medications that are required for some of the clients that are referred to these institutions. As it stands now, before there's any southern referral, it has to be approved by the department staff. Thank you.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion, Mr. Henry.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

I would like to have an answer about how much is provided already to the institution in question and how much is core funding? Is it $50 million, $10 million? What is the amount of core funding that would be needed?

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The issue of core funding in itself is a variable because of the fact that

the treatment centres, as I indicated earlier, met approximately eight weeks ago, and they've accepted the fact that, starting July 1st of this year, we're going to be -of the four centres that we operate -providing 75 per cent of their funding as basic core funding and 25 per cent of their funding based on a per them basis. In other words, how many clients go through their programs. That will shift to a 50/50 basis starting April 1, 1997, and it will go down to a 25 per cent core funding, 75 per cent per them in the following fiscal year, with the intent that by April 1, 1999, 100 per cent of all their funding will be received from a per them basis.

With respect to the Tl'oondih operation, we fund them, we've given them a $300,000 advance for this fiscal year to help them continue to operate based on their per them charges for their clientele now; which I believe is $100 for adults, $75 for youth and $50 for children. They will submit invoices against that $300,000, based on referrals and based on those rates. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Henry.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Do I understand, then, that the healing centre, right now, is funded under the same principle as you propose this government go to in 1999, in that it's going to be 100 per cent per diem?

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would anticipate that by 1999 all treatment centres, as I indicated, would be funded based on a per them of how many people would be going through their programs. As it stands now, the Tl'oondih operation is funded on a per diem, based on the amount of clients that go through the program. Thank you.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Steen.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I would like some information. What is the capacity of this centre?

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The mover of the motion should be able to answer that question about the facility that you refer to in the motion. Mr. Krutko.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To date, they have run programs with up to 40 people, with an average of 35. They are able to sustain that large a group.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Steen.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Could the Minister indicate to me how that compares to the centre in Inuvik?

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 517

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Inuvik Delta House has a 12-bed capacity; Northern Addictions Services has a 20-bed capacity; Inuusiqsiurvik in

Iqaluit has 18 beds; and, Nats' ejee K'eh in Hay River has 30 beds. Thank you.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 518

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Krutko.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 518

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I just want to clarify this point on core funding. To date, the $300,000 that has been allocated is basically for services with regard to the non-insured health benefits program, which is a program through Indian Affairs for aboriginal groups, status Indian and Inuit; that is the only group who can access the $300,000. This is based on the per them which the Minister mentioned: $100 per adult, $75 per youth and $50 per child. We are paying people $1,000 per month to take children from their homes to put them into care units in Yellowknife, Fort Smith and Hay River, yet we have no problem with paying $1,000 per month, which averages out to approximately $33 day.

This is the kind of money which you have to justify: The individual cost of $50 per child versus the cost of that to society and the youth. We are finding that more and more of our children are being taken away. We say what we are doing today is for the next generation. There's not too much hope for the next generation as it stands right now, especially with regard to education and jobs.

If you review our statistics, it boggles my mind; you can incarcerate people, take children away, deal with the cost of courts, yet we have no problem with that. Under another program, we've lobbied for this initiative with the federal government and private industry, and this government. Who are we here for are for the big boys in industry or for the little people who can't stand up for themselves, who basically don't have a hope in life of obtaining a lifestyle where they can basically say that they were a success. Instead, they're just another statistic: this is how many people who are incarcerated; this many people are in groups homes; or, this many people are alcohol or drug cases. Sooner or later you have to put faces to these statistics.

We have no problem paying for the costs of medevacs or sending people out because they've tried to commit suicide. I find it appalling, we act as if our eyes are closed, yet reality is in front of us, we see it every day, we hear it on the news. A guy was just killed on the Fort Rae highway over the weekend; an old lady was run over in Fort McPherson because of alcohol. We have no problem with those things. It's just news which has happened and so what. Soon that " so what' is going to cost us in incarcerating the young people, having to build new jails and other institutions. We must deal with this today or we're going to have to deal with it sooner or later, and every one of us as taxpayers is going to have to pay for it. This is why I'm saying the initiative is unique in Canada; unique in the sense of aboriginal people who consider themselves a family unit from the grandfather to the infant. This is something which we are losing touch with.

With regard to the motion, the motion is saying it's a process for the government to sit down and negotiate; it's not telling them that we're going to take any money out of any programs. It's saying sit down with these people and negotiate. The word is "negotiate," enter into negotiations.

Negotiations are never over until they're over. I don't know why everyone is assuming that the outcome is already made up, that they are going to get funding, but at least give them the opportunity to sit down with this government to try to negotiate the process through. This is all we're asking for. This is all the motion says. It doesn't say they are going to get dollars at the end of the day. The wording of the agreement is "enter into negotiations."

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 518

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We have Mr. Erasmus and Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Erasmus, to the motion.

Committee Motion 6-13(3): Core Funding To The Tl'oondih Healing Society, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 518

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to know when the healing centre opened.