Saying that we have the final say about what happens in this House ... I might be new, but what I see here is a bunch of numbers on a piece of paper that so happens to be there from FMB. As an ordinary Member, I have no input with regard to what FMB puts in front of us. I see that there is discretion as to how things are allocated. As the Member for Nunakput said, does it come down to a question of priority or who gets the first drink at the trough? Is it done on the question of essential services or on the question of people having input into the decision-making process before it comes to this House?
Debates of May 23rd, 1996
Topics
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 606
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 606
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Madam Minister.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 606
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The capital planning process is a process that the community leaders are involved in. The community councils should know their five-year capital plan. It is the responsibility of the MLA to take part in those decisions and be aware of the capital plan of their communities. They are the ones who set the priorities for the planning process. This has gone through the Infrastructure committee. I would like the MLAs to feel welcome to look through their capital plan of all their communities. There are options, if you want to priorize your capital plan by going into a block funding agreement, where you have more flexibility in your capital planning process with the community.
The consultation and priorizing has been done at the community level. This just didn't come out of the blue. The communities know what is in their capital plan. Thank you.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 606
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Krutko.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 606
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
That is exactly what I wanted to hear because that is exactly what isn't happening. A lot of the major projects that have been in communities -- such as recreation facilities, curling rinks, large equipment, et cetera - has been moved out of the budget because of the so-called restraint. But you go through this process and see a recreation complex being built in certain ridings and large capital projects being allocated. When you talk to the municipal council, they ask wasn't that in your five-year capital plan. They say it was the regional office who told them that you have to eliminate that from your capital plan. There are areas out there who are still getting large projects in their ridings. It seems like your department has the ultimate say. We can give you a wish list, but we get what you give us. We don't have much of a say in what we see in the five-year capital plan.
For instance, Fort McPherson is getting $225,000 for a community of over 1,000.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 606
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Madam Minister.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 606
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some of the priorities can't be met. The community decides what the priorities are and, of course, some priorities can't be met. If a community wants to go into a block funding agreement, they have more flexibility in their funding to move capital projects around. The communities have been consulted and the process is known by the communities and this isn't done by a department outside. Some priorities have to be dropped. These have been consulted with the communities through block funding agreements and they will have more flexibility in moving their capital projects around. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 606
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Total region, Mr. Krutko.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 606
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have been involved with the hamlet of Fort McPherson where your department has come into the communities and tried to move capital projects up, but they say these cuts were made by Yellowknife and that is the direction they have been given. The communities may want to move this project up because of the water quality question or not having a recreation item.
With regard to this new arrangement of block funding in communities, you are saying they are going to get a better deal. You might get a three-year block funding arrangement, but payments are done on a month-by-month basis. Many of these projects are scheduled for the year 1999, 2000 and 2001. We are talking about the next decade. This is my first kick at the can at this process and it looks like there is a problem with it. I would like to ask the Minister if she is willing to open a dialogue with all the communities in the Mackenzie Delta, to have a chance to put what they would like to see in the five-year capital plan versus what is in front of us.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Madam Minister.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There has been a lot of changes in this new government. We aren't working with the same funding from the federal government. The capital plans that used to be done were done with a lot of money and we have had to make a lot of changes. I know that all the MLAs are aware of that. I am offering an option, as a MACA Minister, that through block funding, the communities can priorize their capital projects and meet the needs of their communities. When we are talking about a three-year block funding agreement and monthly funds going into the community, that isn't an equal amount of funding to the community each month. It would be different amounts as negotiated with the community. There is a clause where if the government doesn't have enough money in the second year, there would have to be a percentage cut to the block funding agreement. That is done one year at a time by the department.
We have made a lot of changes and my personal preference for an option would be that my communities get into block funding agreement, so they can priorize themselves. We aren't working with the same dollars as the government had before. Thank you.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Inuvik, total region ... Mr. Krutko, are you okay now?
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Krutko.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
The point I'm trying to make is that we are presently in a financial problem; we realize we have a deficit. The deficit didn't happen overnight yet these capital projects that we're talking about have been in the works for five or 10 years. These things have been done by our predecessors but whatever happened in the past happened in the past. Looking at the breakdown of the budget, because of the capital plans that have been in place in the past, we have some have and have-not regions. The point I'm trying to make is that you're suggesting that block funding is probably the way to go, but because of what's in the budget now, from what I see, especially for myself, I won't be seeing any projects in my riding until the year 1999-2000.
With regard to infrastructure problems we're having in Fort McPherson, Aklavik and other communities, those projects have basically been moved out. God knows by who, but the way it's scheduled in the five-year capital plan, we are not going to see them for a while. Yet, there are some projects here that you're talking about being essential or there for the benefit of a few individuals or a particular area. If you're talking about fairness, I don't see any fairness with regard to how this budget has been laid out, especially with regard to projects and exactly who managed to make sure they stacked the deck five or six years ago and are now getting the big projects; if you missed out on the boat, sorry. That's what it's looking like to me.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. There was no question, Mr. Krutko?
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Could I have the Minister and the department give us a breakdown on all the capital projects, by riding, in the whole NWT for the last 10 years so we can see exactly where all these projects have been allocated and the cost breakdown for those? Thank you.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Madam Minister.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be consulting with my colleagues on that at the Cabinet level. We all realized, when we got into the government as new MLAs, that there would be tough decisions made and that we would be a part of that. I will be referring that information to my Cabinet colleagues and will answer the appropriate MLA. My department is dealing with these capital projects just within the MACA department. There are also capital projects in other departments that are going into the communities. These are not the only capital projects that are going into the community. There is the Department of Education, Health and Social Services, other departments that have capital projects that I am not aware of. There might be other capital projects going to the communities but we're just dealing with the Department of MACA. Thank you.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Buildings and works, Inuvik. Mr. Krutko.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Since you're not in favour of doing it for the whole Northwest Territories at this time, in the meantime, could I have a breakdown of what the capital projects have been for the Mackenzie Delta for the last 10 years?
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Madam Minister.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will do that. We will have to do some research on what has been happening in the Member's riding over the past 10 years, just for MACA. Thank you.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you.
Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 607