Well, obviously the Member hasn't taken the time to read the proposal that's been put forward to the Government Operations committee, which I understand he sits on. If he had taken the time to look at the issue, he would see that all the answers are in there.

Secondly, banks don't determine the political strategy of this government; politicians do. I'm suggesting to you that this initiative is an alternative. There are some safeguards in place. If the honourable Member had taken the time to read the proposal that I brought forward that was in the Government Operations committee, if he had attended the session when I brought in Mr. Grossman and Mr. Kostenko he would then understand the issue and have the detailed information he requires. It is there and it has been there on a consistent basis. This issue has been on the table for over a year; a year and a half. I just don't understand where the honourable Member is coming from when he says he doesn't know what's going on. Read the documents. He tells us he works 12 hours a day; take some time to read the documents.

---interjection

Madam Chairperson, my point of order is that the Member is saying that if I attended the meeting -- he knows that I was at the meeting -- and if I had read the paper, and I have read the paper. Just because something is put in front of me doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I think I made some legitimate concerns and I'm very pleased that the Minister is getting this opportunity to explain why the MIC is so useful for ... (Microphone turned off).

(Microphone turned off)

Madam Chair, I've already assured my honourable colleague and I will assure him again in the House that the intent of this MIC was -- and, again, I'll remind everybody -- to provide mortgages for housing and that will be the primary focus of it. Both Mr. Ootes and Mr. Henry have asked me and it is not the intent of the Mortgage Investment Corporation to be active in commercial mortgages. I hope that assures him. He's asked me for an eight year ... I can't answer the eight years. I'd have to phone up Mr. Grossman or others who are working on it. I said in committee and I'm saying again, I believe the term was 95 per cent and I don't have a problem with that. I can't say today, categorically, that it's going to be eight years, six years or 10 years.

Not because we're going to get Mr. Ootes's support, which we appreciate, but I believe that's part of the arrangement of this Mortgage Investment Corporation -- I believe I explained that in committee -- yes, we will ensure that its primary focus, up to 95 per cent, is in mortgages for housing. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I apologize for my question in that it may have been answered before, but I would appreciate it if I could get it answered again. I appreciate the Minister's comments that 95 per cent of this MIC will go towards a residential component. I do not need an eight-year term but I need the Minister to confirm that, yes, 95 per cent of it will be dedicated towards residential construction.

--- Interjection

Thank you for that. Does the Minister have an amount that's being spent to date on the preparation of the MIC and also amounts he would envisage it will take to set up the program, office, staff and so on?

Thank you, Madam Chair. The original budget for the Mortgage Investment Corporation was $1 million to put it together. That was all the legal and the legislation. I don't know, right off the top of my head, exactly how much of that money is spent, but I believe it's somewhere around $750,000. It was $1 million that was budgeted.

I said to the committee, and I'll say again today, that the intent of the mortgage and loan company is to be a very lean, mean and trim operation. I'll just try to get to the financial information here. Can I ask for clarification? I've got the profit and loss statement here and I'm just trying to quickly calculate what the O and M expenditures are going to be outside of interest payments and stuff like that. It's somewhere in the region of $913,000 on an annual basis. That's for what I would call the operations and maintenance costs of running this operation.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Initially, this initiative was proposed as a housing initiative to spur construction and create jobs. As of recently, I believe it's fair to say that the sale of staff housing has crept into it. I would say initially, at least, what the committee was presented with was that the initiative was to spur construction and the creation of jobs. We have another player, CMHC, who I would suggest should be a large

component of this. I would ask the Minister to what extent does he intend, percentage-wise, to use CMHC as a guarantor?

Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me qualify by saying that this will be an independent business partially seeded by government and subject to the other investors coming forward. My understanding is that, if not all, close to all of the mortgages will be CMHC guaranteed, as they are done with banks. I don't have the percentage here. However, it's certainly the intent to have this operation run no different in terms of the conventional banks and their conditions of lending. It may practice some different ways of doing it but CMHC would be intimately involved in this operation. Thank you.